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OverSword

Why is Mexico asking for list of US gun owner

46 posts in this topic

From the article:

Mexican lawmakers will ask the U.S. Senate to create a registry of all commercialized firearms in border states, which includes California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas. Mexico says it will make it easier to trace guns used in violent attacks.

The measure was reportedly approved on January 9 by Mexico’s Permanent Commission, a government entity that meets when Mexico’s Senate and the Chamber of Deputies is in recess. Gun owners in Arizona are calling the proposal “foolish” and an “invasion of privacy.”

A number of the gun owners interviewed by KPHO-TV also referenced the Obama administration’s disastrous gun-running operation known as “Fast and Furious.”

The operation, conducted by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), allowed illegal straw buyers to walk across the border with nearly 2,000 firearms, including semi-automatic rifles. The weapons ultimately ended up in the hands of Mexican drug cartel members and were used in a number of crimes, including murders and kidnappings.

Further, a gun from Fast and Furious was found at the murder scene of U.S. Border Agent Brian Terry in December of 2010.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/18/why-is-mexico-asking-the-u-s-senate-for-a-registry-of-u-s-gun-owners/

The fact that Mexico wants to know who has guns in the USA is a good argument against gun registration.

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I guess they can hide guns for the cartels or smuggle guns to Mexico for the Cartels and get a good pay packet

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It was likely sponsored by Cartel money. They are looking for more Fast and Furious type employees to help get guns out of the US to Mexico. Booming business for Americans to buy guns for the cartels to take back.

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The reason is in your OP

Mexico says it will make it easier to trace guns used in violent attacks.

Fat chance of it happening!!

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The reason is in your OP

Fat chance of it happening!!

How will giving Mexico a list of registered gun owners in the US help trace gun's used in crimes in Mexico? Do you think Americans are crossing the border and killing people? The reason given is ridiculous.
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Reality is gangs are often used especially ones from San Diego for "jobs" in Mexico.

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How will giving Mexico a list of registered gun owners in the US help trace gun's used in crimes in Mexico? Do you think Americans are crossing the border and killing people? The reason given is ridiculous.

No, it´s the guns that are crossing the border.

Many of the weapons originated from small gun shops, pawn shops, gun fairs, or at sporting goods stores. There are more than 2,000 sale points along the US-Mexico border alone.

The ATF agents worried most about straw buyers, or people with clean records buying weapons for criminals. “That’s someone coming into a gun shop with a list of weapons they need and a wad of cash,” one agent said. Guns shops are not required to alert the authorities to suspicious sales. “We hope that if someone comes in and buys 20 AKs, that they’d call us,” the agent said. Sometimes they do, “but they’re not necessarily required to.”

http://www.theworld.org/2012/12/guns-and-the-us-mexico-border-what-atf-agents-see/

Edit: added link

Edited by jugoso

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How will giving Mexico a list of registered gun owners in the US help trace gun's used in crimes in Mexico? Do you think Americans are crossing the border and killing people? The reason given is ridiculous.

No, our government did that just fine with Fast and Furious.

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The only way this will work is if Mexico gives the US a list of guns confiscated and then our government locates where the source is. US citizens will absolutely not put up with our government giving out private information of our businesses or citizens to a foriegn government.

Edited by OverSword
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The only way this will work is if Mexico gives the US a list of guns confiscated and then our government locates where the source is. US citizens will absolutely not put up with our government giving out private information of our businesses or citizens to a foriegn government.

Doesn't the UN want something similar? I could be wrong but I've heard or read that somewhere (or maybe I'm just attaching words together in my head and calling it news, I'm practically the media! -ba-dum-tsh-).

Edited by Hasina

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The only way this will work is if Mexico gives the US a list of guns confiscated and then our government locates where the source is. US citizens will absolutely not put up with our government giving out private information of our businesses or citizens to a foriegn government.

Im not gonna hedge any bets they wouldnt do this and not even tell us they did.

Doesn't the UN want something similar

The UN wants us disarmed

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And we want the UN disbanded.

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It was likely sponsored by Cartel money. They are looking for more Fast and Furious type employees to help get guns out of the US to Mexico. Booming business for Americans to buy guns for the cartels to take back.

And if they would end in Mexico it would be only half the problem, the real problem is that the cartels bring them back to the US to arm their associates.

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How will giving Mexico a list of registered gun owners in the US help trace gun's used in crimes in Mexico? Do you think Americans are crossing the border and killing people? The reason given is ridiculous.

No, but it will sure show who is illegally selling his gun to the cartels.

We should not have waited for Mexico to ask, we should have done something like that 10 years ago.

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we already know who sells guns to cartels, us gvmnt. it is already proven.

it definatly not farmers that have their property trasspassed, and who are indangered by these cartels runners\illegals) , that sell their guns to cartels. you got to be a big idiot to believe that.

i would not give mexico s...t, none of their buissnes.

may be if their officials will give us all their bank accounts, so we could trace how they spend\get their money, we may get a lot usefull info, may be will'l trace cartel money.

Edited by aztek
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we already know who sells guns to cartels, us gvmnt. it is already proven.

it definatly not farmers that have their property trasspassed, and who are indangered by these cartels runners\illegals) , that sell their guns to cartels. you got to be a big idiot to believe that.

i would not give mexico s...t, none of their buissnes.

may be if their officials will give us all their bank accounts, so we could trace how they spend\get their money, we may get a lot usefull info, may be will'l trace cartel money.

I agree with the first part of your staement. As to the second, they have been doing that for quite some time. The US government couldn´t care less about the drugs.....it´s the money they are interested in.

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who has been doing it for quite sometime?? farmers? residents?? and doing what? selling their guns??? you do have at least some evidence to that don't you? if that is what you are talking about.

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who has been doing it for quite sometime?? farmers? residents?? and doing what? selling their guns??? you do have at least some evidence to that don't you? if that is what you are talking about.

Sorry, I didn´t make myself clearer in my post. I was referring to Mexico sharing banking information with the US in order to confiscate the money. That´s the end-game of the whole War on Drugs anyway IMO.

Edited by jugoso

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who has been doing it for quite sometime?? farmers? residents?? and doing what? selling their guns??? you do have at least some evidence to that don't you? if that is what you are talking about.

It was mentioned in the link I provided earlier. There are "straw-buyers who purchase on behalf of the cartel. From link

Guns shops are not required to alert the authorities to suspicious sales. “We hope that if someone comes in and buys 20 AKs, that they’d call us,” the agent said. Sometimes they do, “but they’re not necessarily required to.”

Mexico probably wouldn´t be asking if the US were doing a better job at looking into suspicious sales.

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oh, ok, that makes sence.

now you brought interesting point, if they do it for years, and it doesn't do any good, cartel money is safe, and they keep buying us and mexico politicians, that what is the point to give names of gunowners, they will be just as useless as bank data, in a war on drugs, that is if we have a goal to win that war, not to keep fighting it, (which seems like what the whole point is).

if we want to end it, we should just take away the reason for their exsistance. lagalize it, and we wont have any need for those cartels. hell the same cartels would still make money, if they do the same thing legaly.

but corrupt politicians on both sides, will loose a lot, imo they are the reason we keep fighting unwinable war.

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the links i posted before clearly show, that tens of thousands of full auto rifles are brought to cartels, by deserters from mexico, and other south american armies, by deserters themselves, that offer their services to cartels. not semi auto look alikes that you buy in usa. it just doesn't add up. it has been investigated before, and it proves that amount of guns that come from usa, is tiny on the grand scale. it is money that come out from usa, that cartels need, they have planty of guns, and most importantly disposable soldiers.

i see no reason, to give personal info of amertican citizens to most corrupt, and incompetent, and outright criminal gvmnt on north american continent.

Edited by aztek
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the links i posted before clearly show, that tens of thousands of full auto rifles are brought to cartels, by deserters from mexico, and other south american armies, by deserters themselves, that offer their services to cartels. not semi auto look alikes that you buy in usa. it just doesn't add up. it has been investigated before, and it proves that amount of guns that come from usa, is tiny on the grand scale. it is money that come out from usa, that cartels need, they have planty of guns, and most importantly disposable soldiers.

i see no reason, to give personal info of amertican citizens to most corrupt, and incompetent, and outright criminal gvmnt on sounth american continent.

Undoubtedly, some guns come from army deserters but can you show me the numbers please? I found this from an ATF report:

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) today announced the release of trace information for firearms recovered in Mexico and submitted to ATF for tracing. Trace information shows that between calendar years 2007 and 2011 the Government of Mexico recovered and submitted more than 99,000 firearms to ATF for tracing. Of those firearms more than 68,000 were U.S.-sourced.

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2012/04/042612-atf-atf-releases-government-of-mexico-firearms-trace-data.html

the links i posted before clearly show, that tens of thousands of full auto rifles are brought to cartels, by deserters from mexico, and other south american armies, by deserters themselves, that offer their services to cartels. not semi auto look alikes that you buy in usa. it just doesn't add up.it has been investigated before, and it proves that amount of guns that come from usa, is tiny on the grand scale. it is money that come out from usa, that cartels need, they have planty of guns, and most importantly disposable soldiers.

i see no reason, to give personal info of amertican citizens to most corrupt, and incompetent, and outright criminal gvmnt on sounth american continent.

First off, wrong continent. Secondly, that is your opinion and personal prejudice against Mexico. Want to back it up with some comparisons to other Central and South American countries?

Edit: added link

Edited by jugoso

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The Mexican government in parts is corrupt

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i see no reason, to give personal info of amertican citizens to most corrupt, and incompetent, and outright criminal gvmnt on north american continent.

Those who live in glass houses.... :whistle:

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http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/11/cartel/

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110209-mexicos-gun-supply-and-90-percent-myth

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/02/myth-percent-small-fraction-guns-mexico-come/

http://frontpagemag.com/2011/ryan-mauro/where-drug-cartels-really-get-their-arms/

why would i compare it to other Central and South American countries, it is not them who ask for american citizen personal info, and it is in mexico where cartels rule, and your gvmnt can't do a thing about it.

pretty clear to anyone with eyes and brain.

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