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danielost

Can god make a rock to big for him to left

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Actually God can create a rock that he cannot lift. He just had to make his mind first and place the rock there. This is how he ended up giving himself omniscience, because if you are going to think you better do it right. Now since God is absolutely smart he realized that he would need both have two God's to be to lift the rock of One God. So being all powerful copied himself in to his mind. Now there are two God's at two different places all of the sharing the same characteristic. Omnipresence. Since God has no sense of judgement, he can never come to the conclusion that would allow his. Then he made himself omnibenevolent so he could figure out what he is doing wrong.

So basically if you use your power without thinking, seeing everything, and judgement you can make a universe full of problems, :P

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Boy this sort of jargon really strengthens my conviction that Christianity is utterly irrational. Are you guys talking with a straight face?

I don't think rationality (carnal, human) is a necessity for a human to have faith. For me, faith is an act of will and an admission that I am finite, human, flawed and do not grasp all things so perfectly that I can ever expect to understand my Creator. The best I can do is TRY to live by His rules - also an act of faith - and do my best not to hurt others intentionally. Ultimately, if I am deluded and there is no God then when I pass from this existence I will never know my error. I will have lived in a way that gave me fulfillment and a degree of peace and I think that most humans would be content with that outcome. Indeed, that way is the only one that could ever produce peace and productive coexistence among people.
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Faith has always seemed to be to be something of a dirty trick religions play on people. They tell you faith is a gift God gives you and all you have to do is accept it. Boy do you feel bad if you don't believe when you hear that -- from God no less -- when you doubt, and you are bound to doubt. So instead of feeling guilty and creepy-crawly evil, you decide you gotta find a way to believe. And then lo and behold the guilt lifts, not like you had anything to be guilty for in the first place, but the trick had you thinking you did.

Pascal's Wager (various forms of why not believe -- it won't harm me and maybe I'll be better off) is often the rational resorted to in order to keep from rejecting "God's gift."

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I haven't avoided anything, you've ignored the point it is impossible.

Rather than ignoring the point, I am making a point: it is impossible to fully demonstrate a fiveD object in only three dimensions, but that doesn't mean the object doesn't exist. Likewise, a spiritual being cannot be totally represented in a physical dimension without limitations.

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Did you ever hear of a non sequitur. I read what you just posted several times and it just does not follow. I think you are reaching for straws.

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Posted (edited)

Rather than ignoring the point, I am making a point: it is impossible to fully demonstrate a fiveD object in only three dimensions, but that doesn't mean the object doesn't exist. Likewise, a spiritual being cannot be totally represented in a physical dimension without limitations.

As I pointed out before the 4th dimension is time. A solid object in the 4th dimension makes no sense.

But you're right you've made a point, you have selective reading. Asinine challenges are only proof of the requesters ignorance.

Edited by Rlyeh

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Stoo the name calling. String thoery sees eleven dimentions none of them is time. Time is outside physical dimensions. The bible indicates that time isn't real or is relitive.

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Posted (edited)

Stoo the name calling. String thoery sees eleven dimentions none of them is time.

You sure about that? Last time I checked it accepted the standard space-time concept of relativity, wait it still does. Many of the other dimensions are at extremely small scales.

I stick to my original statement, a solid 4 or 5 dimensional object is nonsense.

BTW no one has been called any names.

Edited by Rlyeh

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Faith has always seemed to be to be something of a dirty trick religions play on people. They tell you faith is a gift God gives you and all you have to do is accept it. Boy do you feel bad if you don't believe when you hear that -- from God no less -- when you doubt, and you are bound to doubt. So instead of feeling guilty and creepy-crawly evil, you decide you gotta find a way to believe. And then lo and behold the guilt lifts, not like you had anything to be guilty for in the first place, but the trick had you thinking you did.

Pascal's Wager (various forms of why not believe -- it won't harm me and maybe I'll be better off) is often the rational resorted to in order to keep from rejecting "God's gift."

I had never heard of this wager :) So I guess Pascal had me figured out - with the exception that I realize that this life really is more than being about me. My happiness comes in great measure from how I interact with others. And believing in God only causes me to treat them all with more care. There is no negative - unless one has such a pride of intellect that they cannot accept that life and the universe is and will remain essentially a mystery. Mankind has exploded with knowledge in the past few decades but we don't even know which questions to begin to ask, let alone their answers, and it will be the work of millennia to change that. Just my 2c
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Put a beggar in Emperor's clothes, does that make him the Emperor ?

No

But 'we' will make him Emperor

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If I am guilty of selective reading, it is because I employ selective thinking. I choose to believe that which makes the most sense to me, and that which is manifested as truth in my life. You are also free to choose your own beliefs. I will maintain my statement in post # 79; I cannot state it more simply.

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If I am guilty of selective reading, it is because I employ selective thinking. I choose to believe that which makes the most sense to me, and that which is manifested as truth in my life. You are also free to choose your own beliefs. I will maintain my statement in post # 79; I cannot state it more simply.

Ok, you provide a 4 dimensional solid object if you believe it then

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Time is relative.

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Ok, you provide a 4 dimensional solid object if you believe it then

As you stated earlier, it is impossible to do so in our dimension. You can draw a representation of a 3D cube on 2D paper, but it's only a representation and is not the actual object. Any object can only be fully manifested in its own dimension, not in a lower dimension. In relation to the OP, the rock question is invalid because God, who exists in a higher dimension than ours, cannot be fully manifested in our dimension.

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As you stated earlier, it is impossible to do so in our dimension. You can draw a representation of a 3D cube on 2D paper, but it's only a representation and is not the actual object. Any object can only be fully manifested in its own dimension, not in a lower dimension. In relation to the OP, the rock question is invalid because God, who exists in a higher dimension than ours, cannot be fully manifested in our dimension.

So which dimension does God exist in?

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So which dimension does God exist in?

I wouldn't know, since I've not "visited" any of those higher dimensions... :whistle:

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God creating a rock which he cant move is attributing human qualities to him, that's first mistake, second mistake for god to do so is illogical, a perfect god cannot be illogical!

Can god do anything is not the right question, the right question is "does god have power over everything" yes!

That changes all the dynamics

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I wouldn't know, since I've not "visited" any of those higher dimensions... :whistle:

And yet you're the one saying it.

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as far as big rocks go, this one must take the buscuit

The Yangshan Quarry has been worked from the time of the Six Dynasties, the local limestone being used for construction of buildings, walls, and statues in and around Nanjing.[3]

After Zhu Yuanzhang (the Hongwu Emperor) founded the Ming Dynasty in 1368, the city of Nanjing became the capital city of his empire. The Yangshan quarry became the main source of stone for the major construction projects that changed the face of Nanjing.[4] In 1405, Hongwu's son, the Yongle Emperor, ordered the cutting of a giant stele in this quarry, for use in the Ming Xiaoling Mausoleum of his deceased father. In accordance with the usual design of a Chinese memorial stele, three separate pieces were being cut: the rectangular stele base (pedestal), the stele body, and the stele head (crown, to be decorated with a dragon design). After most of the stone-cutting work had been done, the architects realized that moving stones that big from Yangshan to Ming Xiaoling, let alone installing them there in a proper way, would not be physically possible. As a result, the project was abandoned.[3] In place of the stele, a much smaller tablet (still, the largest in the Nanjing area), known as the Shengong Shengde ("Divine Merits and Godly Virtues") Stele was installed in Ming Xiaoling's "Square Pavilion" (Sifangcheng) [3] in 1413.[6]

The three unfinished stele components remain in Yangshan Quarry to this day, only partially separated from the living rock of the mountain. The present dimensions and the usual weight estimates of the steles are as follows:

According to experts, if the stele had been finished and put together, by installing the stele body installed vertically on the base, and topping with the stele head, then it would have stood 73 meters tall

What was that Emperor thinking?

on the subject of theology, this ones a good read http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/hamlets_mill/hamletmill12.htm(chapter 7- Socrates' Last Tale -from "Hamlets mill" , by Santillana and Dechend 1977).

To cut a long story short, my afterlife in the Void changed everything for me, but it took 12 more years and many hardships for me to go back to my Christian root. In the end, I believe that the Holy Spirit was guiding me through it all, since the day one. Why do I believe this? I feel deep down that I have made a pact with Jesus Christ/God a long time ago, and "being shaken" was a way back.

what differentiates the above cited chapter from the christian dogma is the belief in the transmutability of the soul, so, in otherwords I could walk again on earth another time as a dog, or swim in the sea as giant squid etc.

BTW, how do you know when you talk about the holy spirit guiding you that its not really a luciferian spirit (read as your own concept of evil whatever that is) for example leading you on to a worser fate, or a more insufferable demise?

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As you stated earlier, it is impossible to do so in our dimension. You can draw a representation of a 3D cube on 2D paper, but it's only a representation and is not the actual object. Any object can only be fully manifested in its own dimension, not in a lower dimension. In relation to the OP, the rock question is invalid because God, who exists in a higher dimension than ours, cannot be fully manifested in our dimension.

So basicaly you say you know god exisists and its all about demensions. Talk about talking out ones own ass. All it takes is writting on a 2d piece of paper to manifest a god.

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By dimensions I believe it means god is a metaphysical concept and our existence is the physical reality thus the metaphysical would not manifest in our dimension ie physical reality thus OP question is illogical because your superimposing a physical reality ie rock on a metaphysical concept or reality!

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By dimensions I believe it means god is a metaphysical concept and our existence is the physical reality thus the metaphysical would not manifest in our dimension ie physical reality thus OP question is illogical because your superimposing a physical reality ie rock on a metaphysical concept or reality!

In that case he can't do anything, he is a concept in our heads.
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Posted (edited)

By dimensions I believe it means god is a metaphysical concept and our existence is the physical reality thus the metaphysical would not manifest in our dimension ie physical reality thus OP question is illogical because your superimposing a physical reality ie rock on a metaphysical concept or reality!

The op I think meant to show people that know one knows god nor can speak as to what it may be.

As just said by Rlyeh, it`s only a concept nothing more.

Edited by The Silver Thong
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as far as big rocks go, this one must take the buscuit

What was that Emperor thinking?

~snip~

The emperor was convinced to replace it with this :

Stone_Sifangcheng.jpg

because there was unrest and turmoil at the time and the auspicious dateline to place the thing in the mausoleum has to be kept to a strict schedule.

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And yet you're the one saying it.

Yes, that's true.

So basicaly you say you know god exisists and its all about demensions. Talk about talking out ones own ass. All it takes is writting on a 2d piece of paper to manifest a god.

So one can understand everything about a subject simply by writing it? I'm going to try that with "dark matter"; I'll let you know how it turns out.

You and Rlyeh said that god is at least a concept, so the subject can be discussed. Whether or not a god is real, this fact remains: a god is above humanity in terms of power, ability and existence.

However, you don't have to know everything about someone in order to interact with them, or know everything about an object to be able to use it. Do you know everything about your best friend? Can you identify every circuit on the motherboard in your computer if you're not an electrical engineer?

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