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Still Waters

Pack of hunting hounds attack fox on road

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I think that is also disgusting, its got nothing to do with cute factor. Although I am guessing that at least the boars get eaten? If someone wants to head out with a gun and kill an animal that they will later eat then fair enough, that is their decision. But in my opinion, to hunt down an animal in the name of sport, for it to be chased for miles upon miles, terrified and then eventually torn to pieces for nothing more than the thrill and amusement of humans is just sickening.

Is it more or less sick than watching a fox kill 20 chickens even though it can only eat 1? Do you have no sympathy for the poor chickens whose meat was not eaten?

It is not uncommon for one fox to wipe out 100 chickens in a night.

http://professorchickenspredators.webs.com/fox.htm

It seems the fox is more of a sadistic killer than any human.

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Is it more or less sick than watching a fox kill 20 chickens even though it can only eat 1? Do you have no sympathy for the poor chickens whose meat was not eaten?

http://professorchic...ebs.com/fox.htm

It seems the fox is more of a sadistic killer than any human.

Yeah I would say it's pretty awful that a fox would do that. Any human who would stand there and watch a fox do that and enjoy it would have to be pretty sick in the head to me. Just the same as any human who would stand by and enjoy watching a fox getting torn to pieces and enjoy it is pretty sick in the head. (IMO)

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Yeah I would say it's pretty awful that a fox would do that. Any human who would stand there and watch a fox do that and enjoy it would have to be pretty sick in the head to me. Just the same as any human who would stand by and enjoy watching a fox getting torn to pieces and enjoy it is pretty sick in the head. (IMO)

What about a human who did see it (and did not enjoy watching the slaughter*), went to get his dogs, chased the fox with his dogs and allowed them to kill the fox. Would he still be considered sick?

*I had to put this in as, for some reason, if you hunt you are considered a maniac who enjoys tormenting things. I personally have shot and killed pests including possums and rabbits. Did i enjoy it? Not so much, but someone has to do it. (BTW i did not use the skin or meat of either pest due to concerns about disease)

Edited by Professor Buzzkill

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What about a human who did see it (and did not enjoy watching the slaughter*), went to get his dogs, chased the fox with his dogs and allowed them to kill the fox. Would he still be considered sick?

*I had to put this in as, for some reason, if you hunt you are considered a maniac who enjoys tormenting things. I personally have shot and killed pests including possums and rabbits. Did i enjoy it? Not so much, but someone has to do it. (BTW i did not use the skin or meat of either pest due to concerns about disease)

Look I can *get* a farmer wanting to protect his chickens. If it was farmers calling for a cull to protect their chickens, while I wouldn't want that to go ahead (there are fox proof chicken coops) I could at least see that they want to protect their chickens and part of their livelyhood.

What really gets my back up though is fox hunters saying that the ban on hunting with hounds should be lifted because kids are at risk, when really that is just a load of bull and they are thinking up excuses to try and let them enjoy their sickening "sport" without risking fines.

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For me foxhunting is about a terrified animal being chased to exhaustion before being ripped to pieces when finally caught.. And people with their children out for a fun day on horseback enjoying the spectacle, When will people learn that it isnt "fun" to terrorise and kill. If killing is necessary it shouldnt be seen as entertainment and be done humanely as possible. Fear, Misery and suffering are things we can all empathize with, so why inflict them unnecessarily on any living creature.

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Yeah I would say it's pretty awful that a fox would do that. Any human who would stand there and watch a fox do that and enjoy it would have to be pretty sick in the head to me. Just the same as any human who would stand by and enjoy watching a fox getting torn to pieces and enjoy it is pretty sick in the head. (IMO)

Just to make myself clearer. The point was that a farmer who has chickens would not be happy to stand there and watch a fox kill 100 chickens. In fact, these attacks mostly happen at night. If i were a farmer who woke up one day with 100 dead chickens in my hen house, i would be very interested in fox hunting and would not feel disgusted by letting dogs kill in thier natural way (chasing and biting).

The fact that the event of a hunt has become a "fun day out" is just human nature. People are hunting the foxes in groups becuase it is more effective than a lone farmer. Once groups get together, it is human nature to have fun. Hence the hunt is a fun day out. These people do not enjoy watching dogs kill, they enjoy the day. The killing is just a nessessary evil.

To demonize these people because their ancestor used to be rich is crazy. The gentry have been involved in hunts ever since they looked after the welfare of farmers on their estates for close to 1000 years.

Edited by Professor Buzzkill

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Just to make myself clearer. The point was that a farmer who has chickens would not be happy to stand there and watch a fox kill 100 chickens. In fact, these attacks mostly happen at night. If i were a farmer who woke up one day with 100 dead chickens in my hen house, i would be very interested in fox hunting and would not feel disgusted by letting dogs kill in thier natural way (chasing and biting).

The fact that the event of a hunt has become a "fun day out" is just human nature. People are hunting the foxes in groups becuase it is more effective than a lone farmer. Once groups get together, it is human nature to have fun. Hence the hunt is a fun day out. These people do not enjoy watching dogs kill, they enjoy the day. The killing is just a nessessary evil.

This is where we just have to disagree because I certainly would not be having a fun day out knowing that a fox could be possibly getting torn to bits at the end of it. If the fun bit is in the getting together then just meet up with friends and go for a ride.

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This is where we just have to disagree because I certainly would not be having a fun day out knowing that a fox could be possibly getting torn to bits at the end of it. If the fun bit is in the getting together then just meet up with friends and go for a ride.

Which serves no purpose. At least the hunt prevents the slaughter of hundreds of livestock animals, whose torment would be at least as bad as the poor foxes.

Edited by Professor Buzzkill

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Just to make myself clearer. The point was that a farmer who has chickens would not be happy to stand there and watch a fox kill 100 chickens. In fact, these attacks mostly happen at night. If i were a farmer who woke up one day with 100 dead chickens in my hen house, i would be very interested in fox hunting and would not feel disgusted by letting dogs kill in thier natural way (chasing and biting).

The fact that the event of a hunt has become a "fun day out" is just human nature. People are hunting the foxes in groups becuase it is more effective than a lone farmer. Once groups get together, it is human nature to have fun. Hence the hunt is a fun day out. These people do not enjoy watching dogs kill, they enjoy the day. The killing is just a nessessary evil.

To demonize these people because their ancestor used to be rich is crazy. The gentry have been involved in hunts ever since they looked after the welfare of farmers on their estates for close to 1000 years.

Just to make myself clearer. The point was that a farmer who has chickens would not be happy to stand there and watch a fox kill 100 chickens. In fact, these attacks mostly happen at night. If i were a farmer who woke up one day with 100 dead chickens in my hen house, i would be very interested in fox hunting and would not feel disgusted by letting dogs kill in thier natural way (chasing and biting).

The fact that the event of a hunt has become a "fun day out" is just human nature. People are hunting the foxes in groups becuase it is more effective than a lone farmer. Once groups get together, it is human nature to have fun. Hence the hunt is a fun day out. These people do not enjoy watching dogs kill, they enjoy the day. The killing is just a nessessary evil.

To demonize these people because their ancestor used to be rich is crazy. The gentry have been involved in hunts ever since they looked after the welfare of farmers on their estates for close to 1000 years.

I don’t know what the laws are about hunting boars where you live, it may well be legal, fox hunting here isn’t, just the same way we can’t chop the hand of a thief like they do in the Middle east or stone a woman to death in the street because she smiled at or was seen with another man.

  • I have no problem with a farmer killing a fox to protect his livestock.
  • I have no problem with a relative killing a fox to protect their child.
  • I have no problem with an individual killing a fox to protect themselves.

I do have a problem with a groups of organised Hooray Henry’s dresses in funny cloths hunting down every fox they see and slaughtering it as a pastime. Most of these people are not effected by foxes, it is just a callous after school activity to them.

Tell me why the Prime minister need to do this as a pastime? Do you think his chickens are killed or they attack his geese?

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Which serves no purpose. At least the hunt prevents the slaughter of hundreds of livestock animals.

In the name of entertainment for the hunters, which is why the majority of them do it. I am sure there are some farmers out there who care about their chickens but the majority do it for fun and nothing to do with saving chickens, and this is why I have a problem with it.

People are not going out with a gun and trying to cleanly kill a fox (which I would still have issues with as I believe there are ways and means of keeping foxes out of chicken coops), a successful hunt results in a fox being terrified and torn to pieces in what I am sure is a painful death. In my opinion its just sick.

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I don’t know what the laws are about hunting boars where you live, it may well be legal, fox hunting here isn’t, just the same way we can’t chop the hand of a thief like they do in the Middle east or stone a woman to death in the street because she smiled at or was seen with another man.

  • I have no problem with a farmer killing a fox to protect his livestock.
  • I have no problem with a relative killing a fox to protect their child.
  • I have no problem with an individual killing a fox to protect themselves.

I do have a problem with a groups of organised Hooray Henry’s dresses in funny cloths hunting down every fox they see and slaughtering it as a pastime. Most of these people are not effected by foxes, it is just a callous after school activity to them.

Tell me why the Prime minister need to do this as a pastime? Do you think his chickens are killed or they attack his geese?

As stated before, the gentry have hunted foxes for hundreds of years,. This is a hangover from when they were the major land holders of the country and would hunt the foxes that were affecting the yeild of the farmers on their estates. The fact that the decendants of the gentry still want to keep to their tradition is not a reason to make fun of them.

Is it callous or noble that they want to protect farmers from the impact of foxes? depends on your personal outlook.

I doubt that a farmer wants to spend his nights waiting up with a gun when he has to get up a 5am every day. I think a much more successful way of ensuring foxes are killed would be to have an organised hunt.

So, to summerize the arguement against the hunt using dogs i have listed the opinions below:

1) People are not against protecting farmers livelihood.

2) People are not against animals killing in their natural evolutionary way

3) People are not against gentry riding horses with their dogs.

4) Put them together and its the worst thing humanity has ever done.

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I do have a problem with a groups of organised Hooray Henry’s dresses in funny cloths hunting down every fox they see and slaughtering it as a pastime. Most of these people are not effected by foxes, it is just a callous after school activity to them.

Replace the word foxes with possums and you could be talking about me. Possums are responsible for killing the native plant and bird populations in my country, as well as damaging forestry plantations. Does that effect me personally? No. Does that mean the government wants we to stop killing them? No. Do environmentalists or farmers encourage people to kill possums and rabbits? Absolutely. Do i enjoy it? Not particulary, but i do my bit.

Do you have an issue with this, or would i have to dress up funny and ride on a horse for you to be offended?

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Replace the word foxes with possums and you could be talking about me. Possums are responsible for killing the native plant and bird populations in my country, as well as damaging forestry plantations. Does that effect me personally? No. Does that mean the government wants we to stop killing them? No. Do environmentalists or farmers encourage people to kill possums and rabbits? Absolutely. Do i enjoy it? Not particulary, but i do my bit.

Do you have an issue with this, or would i have to dress up funny and ride on a horse for you to be offended?

We have a problem with deer and very few people have issues with yearly hunts. The reason is because they aren't chased down and torn to pieces while pompous idiots perch on horses cheering it on. It is done humanely and cleanly with as little pain to the deer as possible.

Edited by Michelle
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Replace the word foxes with possums and you could be talking about me. Possums are responsible for killing the native plant and bird populations in my country, as well as damaging forestry plantations. Does that effect me personally? No. Does that mean the government wants we to stop killing them? No. Do environmentalists or farmers encourage people to kill possums and rabbits? Absolutely. Do i enjoy it? Not particulary, but i do my bit.

Do you have an issue with this, or would i have to dress up funny and ride on a horse for you to be offended?

I have an issue with any illegal organised hunts on any animal. Is it illegal to organise a hunt and kill possums where you live.

Do you gather with your friends on Sundays drinking wine, dessed in fancy dress and chase them across the countryside with packs of dogs, until they are cornered in front of passers by, who watch them being torn apart?

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We have a problem with deer and very few people have issues with yearly hunts. The reason is because they aren't chased down and torn to pieces while pompous idiots perch on horses cheering it on. It is done humanely and cleanly with as little pain to the deer as possible.

How do you humanely kill a fox? Stay up all night with a shotgun? Its not very practical. Bait and trap? Maybe, i am not sure if its legal or even possible. It may not be the most humane, but you cannot argue that it is not the most effective form of pest control.

Dogs can/will kill lambs and sheep in a very inhumane way when they get into a field, without anyone cheering them on. It happens in nature all the time. Humans are just exploiting nature as we do in many cases around the world. Animals suffer everyday. As stated before, the fox that is tormented will itself kill other animals for nothing but the "fun" of it (referred to as a frenzy).

Edited by Professor Buzzkill

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I have an issue with any illegal organised hunts on any animal. Is it illegal to organise a hunt and kill possums where you live.

Do you gather with your friends on Sundays drinking wine, dessed in fancy dress and chase them across the countryside with packs of dogs, until they are cornered in front of passers by, who watch them being torn apart?

No it is not illegal. No i do not drink while handling firearms. No i do not dress up.

Possums.jpg

A few pictures like these might change public opinion, but i doubt it.

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How do you humanely kill a fox? Stay up all night with a shotgun? Its not very practical. Bait and trap? Maybe, i am not sure if its legal or even possible. It may not be the most humane, but you cannot argue that it is the most effective form of pest control.

Dogs can/will kill lambs and sheep in a very inhumane way when they get into a field, without anyone cheering them on. It happens in nature all the time. Humans are just exploiting nature as we do in many cases around the world. Animals suffer everyday. As stated before, the fox that is tormented will itself kill other animals for nothing but the "fun" of it (referred to as a frenzy).

What's wrong with hunters staying up all night? That is exactly what deer hunters do. It's a heck of a lot more sporting than putting your dogs out after them to rip them apart. They sit in blinds for hours waiting for a deer to come along and then they shoot it. There are enough people that like to hunt that farmers wouldn't have to take time away from their livelyhoods to deal with it. Real fox hunters could get a pretty penny for the pelts they sold too.

What animlas do has nothing to do with this. We aren't wild animals and we shouldn't base our principles on what a they will do. They often kill their babies that are born deformed, but you don't see civilized people doing that either.

Edited by Michelle

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Dogs can/will kill lambs and sheep in a very inhumane way when they get into a field, without anyone cheering them on. It happens in nature all the time. Humans are just exploiting nature as we do in many cases around the world. Animals suffer everyday. As stated before, the fox that is tormented will itself kill other animals for nothing but the "fun" of it (referred to as a frenzy).

"in·hu·mane

[in-hyoo-meyn or, often, -yoo-]

adjective

not humane; lacking humanity, kindness, compassion, etc."

Do we know better than dogs and foxes...we have a word describing the behavior, yet allow ourselves to sink to or below to the same level, using whatever means to justify the enjoyment of the act..

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What's wrong with hunters staying up all night? That is exactly what deer hunters do. It's a heck of a lot more sporting than putting your dogs out after them to rip them apart. They sit in blinds for hours waiting for a deer to come along and then they shoot it. There are enough people that like to hunt that farmers wouldn't have to take time away from their livelyhoods to deal with it. Real fox hunters could get a pretty penny for the pelts they sold too.

What animlas do has nothing to do with this. We aren't wild animals and we shouldn't base our principles on what a they will do. They often kill their babies that are born deformed, but you don't see civilized people doing that either.

What if it wasn't referred to as a hunt, but as pest control?

Who is forcing the dogs to torture the fox to death? What human told them to do it? or do they do it instinctively? And yes, we abort babies that have obvious defects.

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"in·hu·mane

[in-hyoo-meyn or, often, -yoo-]

adjective

not humane; lacking humanity, kindness, compassion, etc."

Do we know better than dogs and foxes...we have a word describing the behavior, yet allow ourselves to sink to or below to the same level, using whatever means to justify the enjoyment of the act..

No human is torturing foxes. They are allowing dogs to kill foxes in their own way.

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What if it wasn't referred to as a hunt, but as pest control?

Who is forcing the dogs to torture the fox to death? What human told them to do it? or do they do it instinctively? And yes, we abort babies that have obvious defects.

They are trained...just like my Malamute and Huskey both were trained not to kill. We have cats and wildlife that wanders into our yard that we enjoy very much. Neither of my dogs would go after any of them unless I gave the word. Even then, they only chased them out of the yard and stopped on command.

Edited by Michelle

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No human is torturing foxes. They are allowing dogs to kill foxes in their own way.

Yer but a foxhound is specially bred isnt it :yes: for the the purpose? We bred the qualities into the hound.. It is us, no real point in denying it as we are complicit.

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Yer but a foxhound is specially bred isnt it :yes: for the the purpose? We bred the qualities into the hound.. It is us, no real point in denying it as we are complicit.

As there is no denying that stopping the fox culls leads to other animals and humans suffering?

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As there is no denying that stopping the fox culls leads to other animals and humans suffering?

Not Agreed; or at least unsure;

Can you provide scientific evidence to show that traditional fox hunting culls an appreciable percentage of foxes?

The link below suggests a year long ban on hunting had no effect on fox numbers; ie no population increase as was feared there would be;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/sep/05/science.research

If professional hunters were used, specific fox types could be targeted such as the aged or diseased, not the fit or the young. A traditional hunt with dogs wont discriminate in this way..

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I don’t know what the laws are about hunting boars where you live, it may well be legal, fox hunting here isn’t, just the same way we can’t chop the hand of a thief like they do in the Middle east or stone a woman to death in the street because she smiled at or was seen with another man.

  • I have no problem with a farmer killing a fox to protect his livestock.
  • I have no problem with a relative killing a fox to protect their child.
  • I have no problem with an individual killing a fox to protect themselves.

I do have a problem with a groups of organised Hooray Henry’s dresses in funny cloths hunting down every fox they see and slaughtering it as a pastime. Most of these people are not effected by foxes, it is just a callous after school activity to them.

Tell me why the Prime minister need to do this as a pastime?Do you think his chickens are killed or they attack his geese?

^ all this sums exactly how I feel too.

This is not about farmers protecting their stock, this thread is about a group of hoohar henrys out playing with their hunting dogs trained to hunt foxes for the hoohar henrys enjoyment.

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