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GreenmansGod

Poll, Has religion made the world better?

Does religion make the world a better place?   57 members have voted

  1. 1. Has religion made the world better or worse?

    • Better
    • Worse
    • It is irrelevant and does neither.

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

150 posts in this topic

Knight, you mean they chose to convert so they wouldn't be killed. Of, course the catholic church did the samething europe to a degree.

no they choose to convert because they wanted islam

there never is .. or was a law in islam that kills those who don't convert

they pay amount of money in exchange for not serving in army and other activities muslims supposed to do in islamic nation

get your facts straight

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Knight

Of course, defeated people often choose to adopt the customs of their conquerors. To this day, the Irish speak English, almost all of them as their first language. No complaints are heard, none. What you're short of is people who volunteer to be conquered.

I'm a member here, Knight. I'll take it up with whoever here wishes to discuss it.

My position is that IGA is controversial among historians and archeologists, not only regarding what it was, but when it supposedly began and when it supposedly ended. There is agreement about one thing: that if it happened at all, it ended at least 750 years ago.

There is also a secondary issue, a comparison with then-contemporary "Christian Europe." Somehow, your favorite "historians" can't seem to find in "Christian Europe" the Byzantine Empire, which existed before, during and after any claimed "Islamic Golden Age." It finally fell to Turks, who had by then long since displaced Arabs as the top dogs of Islamic imperialism.

The question isn't religious in the first instance. It's historical and archeological for us, and political and military for the people back then. Then, and possibly now, all the religious rigamarole was a pretext for the usual sort of treatment of the weaker or unprepared by the ruthless that we see everywhere throughout history.

While I appreciate that you disagree with the other member, regardless, it is an abuse of language to say that a religion contributes to science. What we are discussing is whether scientists ever lived under a particular political system, operating under color of religion. Yes, many did, for a while after their homelands were overrun by the armies of that political system.

Meanwhile, Eastern Mediterranean Christian Europeans were preserving, transmitting and improving upon Greek mathematics and classical learning. Central Western Europe was long preoccupied with a geopolitical nightmare, and impoverished by their exigencies, but still managed, despite their "backwardness," to kick some serious invader butt at Tours.

The Islamic Golden Age is a Abbasid historical period lasting until the Mongol conquest of Baghdad in 1258.[1] The Islamic Golden Age was inaugurated by the middle of the 8th century by the ascension of the Abbasid Caliphate and the transfer of the capital from Damascus to Baghdad.[2] The Abbasids were influenced by the Qur'anic injunctions and hadith such as "the ink of a scholar is more holy than the blood of a martyr" that stressed the value of knowledge.[2] During this period the Arab world became an intellectual center for science, philosophy, medicine and education; the Abbasids championed the cause of knowledge and established the House of Wisdom in Baghdad, where both Muslim and non-Muslim scholars sought to translate and gather all the world's knowledge into Arabic.[2] Many classic works of antiquity that would otherwise have been lost were translated into Arabic and Persian and later in turn translated into Turkish, Hebrew and Latin.[2] During this period the Arab world was a collection of cultures which put together, synthesized and significantly advanced the knowledge gained from the ancient Roman, Chinese, Indian, Persian, Egyptian, Greek, and Byzantine civilizations.[2]

eight this is your historians words ... not my favorite historians

this is history .. simple as that

i find your use of " a fountain pen and chess and a few other things " is very amusing

yet pointless getaway from the fact the muslims have contributed to major science ..

the star names " which are in arabic " are quite example on muslims conturbtion which you desperatly seeking to deny

the medicine and engineering and math and all other major science flourished during islam

historians approve to this .. and not my " favorite historians " these are the words of your " favorite " historians

so again i say give credit to those who deserve it and put things in correct prospective

away from religious differnces .. which is the drive and fuel for certain people in this debate

so disagree all you like .. unless they rewrite history to prove your claims

these claims remains a flawed and lacking theory .. more of fantasy than theory to be honest in my opinion

Edited by Knight Of Shadows

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no they choose to convert because they wanted islam

there never is .. or was a law in islam that kills those who don't convert

they pay amount of money in exchange for not serving in army and other activities muslims supposed to do in islamic nation

get your facts straight

Get my facts straight. You the one who kept saying the syrian peoole loved thier dictator. How's that going by the way. They only Islamic natiuon that didn't force anyone to convert was the Otoman Empire

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After eight years of fighting with the Meccan tribes, his followers, who by then had grown to 10,000, took control of Mecca in the largely peaceful Conquest of Mecca. He destroyed the pagan idols in the city[18] and then sent his followers out to destroy all of the remaining pagan temples in Eastern Arabia.[19][20] In 632, a few months after returning to Medina from The Farewell Pilgrimage, Muhammad fell ill and died. By the time of his death, most of the Arabian Peninsula had converted to Islam, and he had united Arabia into a single Muslim religious polity

You just got to love religion....not!

BTW the christians were just as bad.

Edited by freetoroam
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That is one thing religion is good for, It gives a real boost to art. We could do a whole library on religion inspired art through BC to CE. Art is my Achilles heal. El Greco is on my list of favorite. If you can get a chance to see one in person, it is worth the trip. His paintings look 3D when you see them in person and no need for goofy glasses.

http://totallyhistor...reco-paintings/

Edited by Darkwind

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Get my facts straight. You the one who kept saying the syrian peoole loved thier dictator. How's that going by the way. They only Islamic natiuon that didn't force anyone to convert was the Otoman Empire

get your facts straight AND stay on topic without attacking me personally

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After eight years of fighting with the Meccan tribes, his followers, who by then had grown to 10,000, took control of Mecca in the largely peaceful Conquest of Mecca. He destroyed the pagan idols in the city[18] and then sent his followers out to destroy all of the remaining pagan temples in Eastern Arabia.[19][20] In 632, a few months after returning to Medina from The Farewell Pilgrimage, Muhammad fell ill and died. By the time of his death, most of the Arabian Peninsula had converted to Islam, and he had united Arabia into a single Muslim religious polity

You just got to love religion....not!

BTW the christians were just as bad.

so what .. when muslims where peacefull and small groups they were tortured and killed by pagans

but when muslims conqured mecca .. they did not treat them the same

let's not cherry pick :P

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so what .. when Pagans where peacefull and small groups they were tortured and killed by the christians and muslims.

but when Pagans conquered............................oh wait!

let's not cherry pick :whistle:

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Poor Knight, Wiki, not that good for reseach. About.com I have found to be a useful site for information. This is information about Mesopotamia before Islam.

http://archaeology.about.com/od/mterms/qt/mesopotamia.htm

Lighten up and have fun.

Edited by Darkwind

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eight this is your historians words ...

How in the name of Galloping Gaspacho is Wikipedia copypasta mine?

i find your use of " a fountain pen and chess and a few other things " is very amusing

I haven't discussed those triumphs. As with Wikipedia as a "source" for "my" historians, I think you have confused me with someone else.

I have never denied the heroism of the captive peoples in maintaining scholarship as well as they did for as long they did. What I resist is referring to Peter stealing Paul's gold as "Peter's Golden Age." I would make the same arguments if somebody had posted that the Roman conquests of Egypt and Greece led to a Roman Golden Age.

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so what .. when Pagans where peacefull and small groups they were tortured and killed by the christians and muslims.

but when Pagans conquered............................oh wait!

let's not cherry pick :whistle:

i don't know about christians

i know that pagans were the majority of arab world during islam rise

and they fought muslims tooth and nail against islam even when muslims were peaceful and didn't fight back

and yet after every thing they commited against muslims

muslims did not treat them the same .. destroying their idols and temples is merciful act

if we wanted to compare it to how much they tortured muslims

but it appears no one ever read history these days :D

first there was pagans .. then there was muslims .. not the opposite

and even those who didn't convert to islam after mecca conquest they were not treated like pagans treated muslims

they were given safty and were not harmed

yes let's not cherry pick

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Poor Knight, Wiki, not that good for reseach. About.com I have found to be a useful site for information. This is information about Mesopotamia before Islam.

http://archaeology.a...mesopotamia.htm

Lighten up and have fun.

that wiki link is the result of major agreement among historians

am sure there is ones out there " eager " to prove islam did not have golden age for certain reasons in their hearts

but that does not really surprise or impress me

i take what historians agreed upon ... that is history

one shout of envy among one or anothere here and there is not history

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How in the name of Galloping Gaspacho is Wikipedia copypasta mine?

I haven't discussed those triumphs. As with Wikipedia as a "source" for "my" historians, I think you have confused me with someone else.

I have never denied the heroism of the captive peoples in maintaining scholarship as well as they did for as long they did. What I resist is referring to Peter stealing Paul's gold as "Peter's Golden Age." I would make the same arguments if somebody had posted that the Roman conquests of Egypt and Greece led to a Roman Golden Age.

Sorry eight bits, I have to take the credit for the fountain pen and chess as they were on the list of muslim ingenious inventions which we in the west would have died out without them.

86439891.UZnOF007.boast.gif

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i don't know about christians

i know that pagans were the majority of arab world during islam rise

and they fought muslims tooth and nail against islam even when muslims were peaceful and didn't fight back

and yet after every thing they commited against muslims

muslims did not treat them the same .. destroying their idols and temples is merciful act

if we wanted to compare it to how much they tortured muslims

but it appears no one ever read history these days :D

first there was pagans .. then there was muslims .. not the opposite

and even those who didn't convert to islam after mecca conquest they were not treated like pagans treated muslims

they were given safty and were not harmed

yes let's not cherry pick

yes first there were Pagans, no doubt about that. Its when the religions came along that the pagans started getting murdered by religious people. The muslims came after pagans, so did the christians!!!

th_Chess.gif

Edited by freetoroam

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How in the name of Galloping Gaspacho is Wikipedia copypasta mine?

I haven't discussed those triumphs. As with Wikipedia as a "source" for "my" historians, I think you have confused me with someone else.

I have never denied the heroism of the captive peoples in maintaining scholarship as well as they did for as long they did. What I resist is referring to Peter stealing Paul's gold as "Peter's Golden Age." I would make the same arguments if somebody had posted that the Roman conquests of Egypt and Greece led to a Roman Golden Age.

i already explained to you how nations succeed each other and how they improve what they gain from the previous one

in that very first reply i did to you .. which i think you never read

the thing is .. they also contirbuted to rise of islamic age .. but they did not " cause " it

muslim who caused it if there was no islam there will never be islamic " golden age "

and keep in mind .. the islamic golden age is golden to muslims .. not to you

roman who treated arabs like cattles in their golden age .. that age was not golden to arabs

use common logic here

but did islamic empire improved what was already there .. and invented new things history says yes

like i said .. look up your stars names .. most of them in arabic names

that alone evidence enough let along heaps of other things in science , math , algebra , enginerring

.. and the number zero .. the list go on

Edited by Knight Of Shadows

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yes first there were Pagans, no doubt about that. Its when the religions came along that the pagans started getting murdered. The muslims came after pagans, so did the christians!!!

th_Chess.gif

am not christian perhaps you should ask them about that no ?

perhaps pagans should have not killed any one who disagreed with their religion at first place

all i care is about muslims did not treat pagan in same crueltiy they treated muslims

for christians that's not my field they can answer for them self

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am not christian perhaps you should ask them about that no ?

perhaps pagans should have not killed any one who disagreed with their religion at first place

all i care is about muslims did not treat pagan in same crueltiy they treated muslims

for christians that's not my field they can answer for them self

Paganism IS NOT A RELIGION!

It is a way of life, respect for nature and respecting what it can do for you as a whole and what nature can do against you as a whole.

There were/are no books to read about gods or prophets telling you how to live and worship them in Paganism. Its is about nature and what comes from the mind and within.

Quickest ways to make a million, start a religion.

L.Ron Hubbard.

Edited by freetoroam

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Paganism IS NOT A RELIGION!

It is a way of life, respect for nature and respecting what it can do for you as a whole and what nature can do against you as a whole.

There were/are no books to read about gods or prophets telling you how to live and worship them in Paganism. Its is about nature and what comes from the mind and within.

Quickest ways to make a million, start a religion.

L.Ron Hubbard.

makes no difference .. why were they so anxious to kill any one who disagreed with whatever they were having ?

don't you think that led to violence against them ?

perhaps if they let other religions be in peace they would have not snapped against them ?

but like i said .. muslims did not treated them the same way they treated muslims

your link prove that .. only their idols and temples were destroyed in mecca .. they were not killed

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makes no difference .. why were they so anxious to kill any one who disagreed with whatever they were having ?

don't you think that led to violence against them ?

perhaps if they let other religions be in peace they would have not snapped against them ?

but like i said .. muslims did not treated them the same way they treated muslims

your link prove that .. only their idols and temples were destroyed in mecca .. they were not killed

You are right, the Pagans were not killed, they were slaughtered!

As for the bold......this is exactly what the religions have done. The pagans had been here for centuries before the muslims and christians came along, and when they do come along....war!!!

Today islam is the one religion where in certain countries they will not tolerate other religions...is this what has been taught to them from their forefathers?

220px-Stipula_fountain_pen.jpg

Edited by freetoroam
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A lot of art has been destroyed by religions too.

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You are right, the Pagans were not killed, they were slaughtered!

As for the bold......this is exactly what the religions have done. The pagans had been here for centuries before the muslims and christians came along, and when they do come along....war!!!

Today islam is the one religion where in certain countries they will not tolerate other religions...is this what has been taught to them from their forefathers?

look if you want to discuss pagans do a new topic

am already stretched enough in this wide topic without asserting pagans to it

and you have the tendency to keep bringin up irrelevant things

sorry but am pretty focused on islamic golden age now and how it improved science

if you want talk about pagans start new topic i'd gladly share what i know from this part of the world's history about pagans

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look if you want to discuss pagans do a new topic

am already stretched enough in this wide topic without asserting pagans to it

and you have the tendency to keep bringin up irrelevant things

sorry but am pretty focused on islamic golden age now and how it improved science

if you want talk about pagans start new topic i'd gladly share what i know from this part of the world's history about pagans

Ok, no probs. I will not mention Pagans as long as you do not mention the islamic golden egg age.

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Ok, no probs. I will not mention Pagans as long as you do not mention the islamic golden egg age.

very mature

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very mature

the egg bit? I know, but funny from here.

ChequeBook.jpg

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the egg bit? I know, but funny from here.

ChequeBook.jpg

i don't think making fun of any religion will improve this debate

sorry i don't find any humor i'll withdraw to shadows for now till something worth discussion is on table

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