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ali smack

why is homophobia commonplace?

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Well I don't see your question as being at all silly. I can't say what I say explains what you point out about lesbians. Some are attracted to femininity, but it seems that a large number are not. With gay men, the pressure to "butch it up" if you want to find partners is well known. All I would say is that it obviously is a complicated affair.

There does seem to be an association between homosexuality and certain male careers for women and other female careers by men, as well as the ol' bent-wrist lisp of yesteryear. These may have been self-fulfilling stereotypes, as the seem to be getting less common (either that or the less effeminate homosexual males are becoming more visible -- the others always were).

You might be right. The amount of testosterone in the fetus might play a role, as well as varied functions and structures in the developing brain. There may be a biochemical component. For example, lesbians share some physical characteristics with straight men. Their brains share some similarities. The two groups' ring fingers tend to be longer than their index fingers. The reverse is true for gay men and straight women, who also share some similarities in their brains. You likely know more about this data than I do, but it might be new to some readers.

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OK, this is going to be hard, as I have a bias. So, sorry in advance.

Consider this extreme... if all humans were homosexual, pro-creation would be highly mitigated and could result in species decline or extinction.

That would be true for any animal species that depends on "opposite sex" pro-creation.

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OK, this is going to be hard, as I have a bias. So, sorry in advance.

Consider this extreme... if all humans were homosexual, pro-creation would be highly mitigated and could result in species decline or extinction.

That would be true for any animal species that depends on "opposite sex" pro-creation.

There's no need to apologize. That's just common sense.

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Being gay is being gay, theres a lot more 'straight' people with issues i bet.

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Being gay is being gay, theres a lot more 'straight' people with issues i bet.

True, and the weird thing is, it seem's ALL people have issues, including me :w00t:

I guess everyone has their own "space"

I choose to respect that, as we all have our own...

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I do not have anything against homosexuals and everything against homophobes.

But what I don't like is chip-on -their- shoulders and attention seeking homosexuals. Who crave attention and constantly moan about being Gay. It's annoying, and silly.

But then again I dislike anyone who has a chip on their shoulder.

I have never understood homophobic people who constantly whine about how much they hate gays but constantly act gay with each other, talk about homosexual acts all the time.

Surely this means they are repressed homosexuals?

I'm sort of the same way, I didn't need to make a choice to be what I am, I just am. Same thing with gays and bi's, it's who they are. Fact is, very few of us are 100% gay or straight, if you plot everyone out on a Bell curve you'll see most of us a little of each, some more gay than straight and some more straight than gay. People used to think that there were only regulars and queers, fact is we come in a myriad of variations. I have gay friends and co-workers....lesbian friends and co-workers.....bisexual friends and co-workers.....straight friends and co-workers (wow, I can't spell 'straight' tonight). I have no issues with the orientation thing so long as they don't have issues with me being who I am. I do have to say I do get a huge kick out of (usually a gay guy) who you meet for the very first time and within his four sentences he's told you he's gay.......like he's wearing it on his sleeve like a bloody red badge of courage or something. If you're gay then be gay, if you're not then be who you are.

I have a lesbian friend who was what I've come to call 98% lesbian, Sue said that about once maybe twice a year she likes to have sex with a man. Nothing permanent, no strings, no attachments, but even though she related to being a lesbian, identified with it and lived the life......every now and then a toy just isn't going to cut it. She said it's often caused her more problems with her female lovers than anything else, like she was spoiled goods or something. So, yeah, the whole sex thing can be a lot more complicated than just being gay or straight. Now, I also have male friends who are 98% straight as well, they wind up going down to the local video store and hanging out by the glory hole......hey, it happens. Then they go home to the wife and resume being active in the church and a pillar of the community. The only thing I find dishonest about it with the males is that most of the wives don't know about the glory hole stuff. Yeah, I get it's all taboo and stuff.......but I'm big on honesty in relationships as well.

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There are quite a few married women who are okay with their husband being bisexual and occasionally seeing another man, but they strongly draw the line at the same husband seeing another woman.

Of course in a bitter divorce, if the woman can show that the husband is bisexual, she will probably take everything -- that is the nature of society nowadays, so no one can tell me gays are treated equally.

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Before I became a Pagan I didn't know that many homosexuals. Now I know a lot, they just seem to come out of the wood work even those who aren't Pagans. In Pagan circles homosexuality is not an issue. I think a lot of the hate and discrimination is the result of Abrahamic belief systems and others that prohibit homosexuality and inspire hate. Children are taught from a young age to hate others who are different by many religions. If it is against your religion to be gay then don't be gay, but the hate and discrimination must end. Gay marriage is not an issue in all religions, so it should not be a crime. This is the reason I believe laws based on religion don't work. They by their nature invite discrimination.

http://www.ranker.com/list/7-worst-capital-punishments-for-being-_illegally_-gay/joanne

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Maybe it's my age, maybe my generation are a little more tolerant than the last, but (despite Catholic schooling!) I've never understood what all the fuss is about. It genuinely makes no odds to me whether the person sitting next to me on the bus, my friends, or anyone likes men or women, or both.

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In old testament times, before the captivity, Yahvism was fighting tooth and nail with the surrounding pagan Canaanite cults. As a result, the practices of Canaanite religion were banned. As it was a fertility religion that included both prostitution and male homosexuality, ritual acts in Canaanite temples, so "morality" did not enter into it. With women the matter was more difficult. You had a king with a harem of wives surrounded by eunuch guards, one man for how many women? What else were they to do? The taboo against male homosexuality along with that against nudity was passed to other parts of the world as Judeo-Christian culture spread. Homosexuality had a place in many cultures, especially warrior societies like the celts, Greeks and samurai. A man might have a wife to bear his children and another warrior as a male lover. The Thebans had a "sacred band" of such men as it was felt a man would fight harder to protect a lover than he would a comrade. It worked. When Philip of Macedon conquered Thebes the sacred band died to the last man, none with his back to the enemy. So impressed was Philip that he built a monument to the enemy regiment.

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Posted (edited)

The extermist don't help. Those who are way over the top in how they act and dress. Done mostly for shock value, but which cause otherwise open minded people to react with disgust. Most men and women that I know who are 'gay' seem normal enough and are great people to know. Screaming queens are a persona that some take on... is ok with me, just don't scream in my face.

Also I think there is a difference between 'gay' and someone who thinks of themselves as 'homosexual'. Gay, at least the way it is presened points to a way of thinking about sex. While a homesexual male or femal may not agree with that at all. All groups have subsets, the oddest and loudest can become the spokesperson for the rest, even if they don't want them to be.

Sort of like Dawkins being the spokes person for all atheist, or westboro baptist for Christians.....no one is really a spokes peson for any group, it is an illusion. When that is known, then the thougt of being afraid of 'homosexuals' drops, since they are just folks like everyone else.

peace

Mark

Edited by markdohle
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Before I became a Pagan I didn't know that many homosexuals. Now I know a lot, they just seem to come out of the wood work even those who aren't Pagans. In Pagan circles homosexuality is not an issue. I think a lot of the hate and discrimination is the result of Abrahamic belief systems and others that prohibit homosexuality and inspire hate. Children are taught from a young age to hate others who are different by many religions. If it is against your religion to be gay then don't be gay, but the hate and discrimination must end. Gay marriage is not an issue in all religions, so it should not be a crime. This is the reason I believe laws based on religion don't work. They by their nature invite discrimination.

http://www.ranker.co...lly_-gay/joanne

Not sure I agree, though of course what you say is not totally false. It is in our nature to hate those who are diffierent, or to use another word, to be fearful and defensive with those outside our group, tribe, religion or political party. One day we may outgrow this tendency but I will not hold my breath. I see pagans just as defensive as any other religious or political group, can't be helped. I have been attacked by pagans merely because I am Christian, though I have studied some pagan paths and am comfortable around them and have never said anything bad about them or their beliefs. Made no difference, the pre-judgement was severe and there was nothing I could do about it. The fact that other christians were perhaps hateful towards them was not an excuse to make me the brunt of their anger. If it was a valid excuse, then I have the right to take my anger out on the next pagan I meet.....I don't believe that of course. So I know, it is everywhere, in me as well; something I believe that has to be faced and dealt with in each human heart.

Peace

mark

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I see nothing wrong with homosexuals being flagrant about it. I see it as a bit of being "in your face" as a way to get revenge on those who are uptight around them.

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I see nothing wrong with homosexuals being flagrant about it. I see it as a bit of being "in your face" as a way to get revenge on those who are uptight around them.

yes I understand, but it can back fire, since they can turn people off who were not before being subjected to their "out there in your face crap" may have been more open to the gay rights movement. Going along with the primitive desire to get back, never worked in the past, it does not work now. Being rational and thinking things though would help I believe, though of course, that will not happen it is too emotional an issue, sort of like the right to life and the pro choice so called debates.

Peace

mark

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I think you are letting yourself be disturbed and don't need to.

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Not sure I agree, though of course what you say is not totally false. It is in our nature to hate those who are diffierent, or to use another word, to be fearful and defensive with those outside our group, tribe, religion or political party. One day we may outgrow this tendency but I will not hold my breath. I see pagans just as defensive as any other religious or political group, can't be helped. I have been attacked by pagans merely because I am Christian, though I have studied some pagan paths and am comfortable around them and have never said anything bad about them or their beliefs. Made no difference, the pre-judgement was severe and there was nothing I could do about it. The fact that other christians were perhaps hateful towards them was not an excuse to make me the brunt of their anger. If it was a valid excuse, then I have the right to take my anger out on the next pagan I meet.....I don't believe that of course. So I know, it is everywhere, in me as well; something I believe that has to be faced and dealt with in each human heart.

Peace

mark

I didn't attack you as a Christian. Let me make this clear I am opposed to people being hung, stoned, jailed or discriminated against because they are gay.This does not come usually from secular law. This comes most often from religious laws. I don't want to live under laws that come from a system of belief I don't agree with, do you? Religion should not be used as justification for discrimination, but it is. Who a consenting adult marries or sleeps with is their business.

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I didn't attack you as a Christian. Let me make this clear I am opposed to people being hung, stoned, jailed or discriminated against because they are gay.This does not come usually from secular law. This comes most often from religious laws. I don't want to live under laws that come from a system of belief I don't agree with, do you? Religion should not be used as justification for discrimination, but it is. Who a consenting adult marries or sleeps with is their business.

Of course I agree ;-).

Peace

mark

I think you are letting yourself be disturbed and don't need to.

I am not disturbed ;-).

Peace

mark

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Posted (edited)

I see nothing wrong with homosexuals being flagrant about it. I see it as a bit of being "in your face" as a way to get revenge on those who are uptight around them.

I see nothing wrong with homosexuals being flagrant about it. I see it as a bit of being "in your face" as a way to get revenge on those who are uptight around them.

.....but purpose is served by doing it? Correct answer is none.

Edited by keninsc

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Before I became a Pagan I didn't know that many homosexuals. Now I know a lot, they just seem to come out of the wood work even those who aren't Pagans. In Pagan circles homosexuality is not an issue. I think a lot of the hate and discrimination is the result of Abrahamic belief systems and others that prohibit homosexuality and inspire hate. Children are taught from a young age to hate others who are different by many religions. If it is against your religion to be gay then don't be gay, but the hate and discrimination must end. Gay marriage is not an issue in all religions, so it should not be a crime. This is the reason I believe laws based on religion don't work. They by their nature invite discrimination.

http://www.ranker.co...lly_-gay/joanne

very much so, I think. it's amazing how much people who claim to be "Christian" will pay very little attention to what the one they claim to follow (Jesus) may have said about anything, but will base so much of their prejudices- er, beliefs :unsure2: on ancient, ancient writings in the old Testament, and the opinions of someone who had a lot of opinions on a lot of things (Paul), not all of which had very much to do with anything about Jesus.

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If memory serves, there is actually very little mention of homosexuality in the Bible, and then always in terms subject to various interpretations. You would think, if it were such a sin, that Jesus at least would have given a sermon about it.

I've wondered at times about Jesus and the "beloved Apostle" John. Then there is the relationship between David and somebody (I forget the name -- you can tell I've gotten my Christianity second-hand). Such things are suggestive.

The Apostle Paul strikes me as a closet homosexual with serious problems about women, something we don't see in the Jesus story at all.

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I didn't attack you as a Christian. Let me make this clear I am opposed to people being hung, stoned, jailed or discriminated against because they are gay.This does not come usually from secular law. This comes most often from religious laws. I don't want to live under laws that come from a system of belief I don't agree with, do you? Religion should not be used as justification for discrimination, but it is. Who a consenting adult marries or sleeps with is their business.

What will you do if in 20 years time society has taken a massive swing towards religion?

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What will you do if it hasn't?

If there were to be a swing towards religion, it will only to religions that have gotten rid of their prejudiced and harmful teachings.

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Posted (edited)

If memory serves, there is actually very little mention of homosexuality in the Bible, and then always in terms subject to various interpretations. You would think, if it were such a sin, that Jesus at least would have given a sermon about it.

I've wondered at times about Jesus and the "beloved Apostle" John. Then there is the relationship between David and somebody (I forget the name -- you can tell I've gotten my Christianity second-hand). Such things are suggestive.

The Apostle Paul strikes me as a closet homosexual with serious problems about women, something we don't see in the Jesus story at all.

Hi Frank Merton,

Most "saintly" (and I don't say that word lightly) people I've met radiated this otherworldly, beatific vibe. Have you ever been around an authentic, "holy" person -- not necessarily a Christian? If not, you may want to go out of your way, not just once, and report back to us your experiences. There are those who say that to be around them, your state of mind will get elevated, uplifted.

Just sharing with you an idea, Frank.

Peace to you.

Edited by braveone2u
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What will you do if it hasn't?

If there were to be a swing towards religion, it will only to religions that have gotten rid of their prejudiced and harmful teachings.

You hope

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Well, yes, I do hope, and I think there is reason in history to think mankind may be evolving more mature social and moral societies than the ones of the past. Slavery is almost gone, world concern about poverty is at a high and things to alleviate it are actually happening, women have far better lives, gays can be open in much of the world, children are better protected, even the treatment of the insane and dying are vastly improved.

Some religions tend to try to hold this back; they must be overcome and I think they are being overcome.

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