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Japan will never stop whaling, minister says

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2006 numbers.

Japan - 866 whales

Icland - 60 whales

Norway - 545 whales

Denmark - 197 whales

St. Vincent and The Grenadines - 1 whale

Korea - 2 whales

Russian Federation - 137 whales

USA - 39 whales

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Denmark - 197 whales

St. Vincent and The Grenadines - 1 whale

Korea - 2 whales

Russian Federation - 137 whales

USA - 39 whales

Link

Of course we can assume all these numbers are low.

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Pretty much. If they continue like this, I doubt it will lead to extinction of whales.

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Australia is doing more than any other country. Let's hope Japan can be stopped by Australia in court. If Australia wins in court and Japan still can't take a hint you guys should try some naval diplomacy and their game will be up real quick. Waiting on court proceedings kills a lot of whales. I just wish you guys would teach these arrogant poachers a lesson this season.

http://www.abc.net.a.../27/3698925.htm

Add to that they've broken international law (refueling in a maritime sanctuary) if it can be proven then it's a hefty fine.

I think the death of a thousand cuts would work on the Whaling industry.

I remember reading about whole huge warehouses full of whalemeat noone wants to buy. That's got to be another "cut" to the industry in Japan.

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Pigs are extraordinary smart as well. But I do not value animals according to their intelligence . Only if they are highly endangered I do see an issue.

When the economics of food production have it that mankind can grow whales on a farm and spare the expense of raising them for decades before slaughtering them for food, the farm animals argument will start to make some sense. Until that time, they cannot withstand the slaughter, as if we should stand the criminality anyway.

Add to that they've broken international law (refueling in a maritime sanctuary) if it can be proven then it's a hefty fine.

I think the death of a thousand cuts would work on the Whaling industry.

I remember reading about whole huge warehouses full of whalemeat noone wants to buy. That's got to be another "cut" to the industry in Japan.

Yes the practice has been reduced to Japanese nationalistic pride and little else. The Japanese government is sinking funds into a bankrupt industry; one of the worst examples of a bailout I've ever seen. And where they've appropriated funds for the whaling fleet makes them look even worse. For once I'm happy my own country isn't the worst offender in the world where an issue I care deeply about is concerned. It will be a joyful day indeed to see a pair of Australian frigates escorting the Japanese fleet out of the Southern Ocean for good. If you're not my favorite country in the world already you will be then. A very endearing hats off to Bob Brown too, for putting principle and compassion ahead of national interests and money. He was needed I think, and his timing couldn't have been better. I know who my favorite Australian politician is, that's for sure.

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Indeed, humans are greedy. But Japan is a member of the International Whaling Commission, which sets the limits. If Japan wouldn't want to stay inside those limits, they could simply opt out. There are no penalties; it's a voluntary organization.

No, Japan sets its own limits. 1,000+ whales is a self-imposed Japanese quota. It's contradictory to first think that the limits are set by the IWC and then to say that Japan can opt out, the implication being there are no limits. There are limits. The limit is 0. Zero tolerance.

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Well, that's what you say.

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Does it really surprise anyone that a country who, not so long ago, thought nothing of exterminating entire villages and groups of people (torturing and experimenting with them) and who also execute their own, human citizens, would not have the compassion, morality or sense to stop killing these beautiful creatures? It doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

We should sanction them to high heaven. A one-week embargo - stopping imports and exports and crippling their economy - would solve this problem in around 8 days.

Hello Pot. Kettle here. Guess what? We're black.

Seriously ex, all x are y claims now? That's low, even for you. And remember ex, the British invented the concentration camp.

Edited by MichaelW

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Honestly, I find it quite amusing that some members are on some sort of moral crusade here supporting a group who have committed acts of piracy on the open seas and is run by a massive egomaniac.

Sea Shepard are a joke. They are an embarrassment to the environmentalist and conservation movement and should be treated accordingly.

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I have serious moral qualms about the killing of any sensate animal. However, provided the animal has a life that is better than it would in the wild (as can be although of course not always is the case with domesticated animals), an offsetting good can be shown. (An offsetting good can also be shown when it is seen that culling of wild animals that no longer have natural predators controlling population reduces suffering).

Another complicating factor is the level of intelligence. Just that the animal is sensate is one thing, but animals are also at varying levels of intelligence. The rule of thumb here is not hard to see -- the more intelligent the animal the greater the moral offense involved in killing it.

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What is a sensate animal? All animals have feelings. and all animals have a certain level of intelligence.

Edited by FLOMBIE
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What is a sensate animal? All animals have feelings. and all animals have a certain level of intelligence.

Yes, of course. The point can even be made that there is evidence of such in plants.

Being sensate has to do with the issue of "qualia," the fact that we experience the world rather than just respond do stimuli. If a bright light suddenly strikes our retina, it automatically responds, without any conscious thought and well before the report of the event gets to our brain. This is reflex and is seen in all living things.

But over the course of evolution a different, more subtle phenomenon has also developed -- that of experience, of sensation. We "see" a bright light in two ways -- the physical phenomenon and the experiential phenomenon. The second may be accompanied by some emotion or other experience (pain, fear, anger, etc.).

It's related to the hoary old question, is my "blue" the same as your "blue." The thing is, experiences can be assigned words, but unless you actually have had the experience, the word will mean nothing.

Enter the concept of suffering. I would think natural selection played an important role here, as some experiences cause suffering -- pain being the most obvious -- and this has negative moral consequences. Sensate beings can suffer. From a biological viewpoint this doesn't matter -- suffering is only another experience -- but from a moral standpoint we have an entirely different issue.

Edited by Frank Merton
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Sorry, I just got up and I am a bit in a hurry right now. I will get to your post in a few hours. :tu:

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I think one of the reasons I hate to whales hurt is I once watched a documentary about grey whales. And it showed a mother whale trying to protect her calf from Orka's. Oh my gosh it was heartbreaking! I understand that is nature (and different to humans hunting) and the Orka's would probably die without the food too, but that didn't stop me crying about it! I know, I am just a big softy but it was so sad seeing that mum whale trying to fight off 3 or 4 Orka's and save her baby (she lost by the way :( ). But I think just seeing that somehow related to me as a mum and made them seem more "human" to me (if that makes sense?)

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Yea -- a bear doing that to a human child would be hunted down. Orcas are problematic in the scheme of things, and just goes to show us that evolution is no respecter of our feelings.

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Denmark - 197 whales

St. Vincent and The Grenadines - 1 whale

Korea - 2 whales

Russian Federation - 137 whales

USA - 39 whales

Link

I guess this post about answers the reason why most are always going on about the japanese whaling.All of these countries listed above kill almost as many whales combined a year as japan does by themselves.For one country that is a lot of whales just for research.Wouldnt you agree?

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I think one of the reasons I hate to whales hurt is I once watched a documentary about grey whales. And it showed a mother whale trying to protect her calf from Orka's. Oh my gosh it was heartbreaking! I understand that is nature (and different to humans hunting) and the Orka's would probably die without the food too, but that didn't stop me crying about it! I know, I am just a big softy but it was so sad seeing that mum whale trying to fight off 3 or 4 Orka's and save her baby (she lost by the way :( ). But I think just seeing that somehow related to me as a mum and made them seem more "human" to me (if that makes sense?)

But most animals are defending their offspring - even the "less intelligent". Altruism is a very common animal behaviour. I just try not to humanize all of them. Whales are not special in this regard.

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I guess this post about answers the reason why most are always going on about the japanese whaling.All of these countries listed above kill almost as many whales combined a year as japan does by themselves.For one country that is a lot of whales just for research.Wouldnt you agree?

I don't know. Norway is catching just as many. I can't make any statement about the research and how many are needed for that. I just fail to see why catching whales is especially bad - if the kind of whale is not endangered.

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But most animals are defending their offspring - even the "less intelligent". Altruism is a very common animal behaviour. I just try not to humanize all of them. Whales are not special in this regard.

Yeah I know. That is why I try not to watch too many wildlife programs on TV, I am just too soft and end up traumatised by what is just part of nature!

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Mankind ran species after species into the ground and despite a cease on whaling of certain species for many decades, we see their numbers only very slowly recover. Whales can't withstand this slaughter. Neither can sharks or bluefin tuna, btw. Hell, ALL large animals are going extinct if trends predict the future.

Create whale farms and raise them like you do cows and pigs, and if some Japanese people putting whale meat into their mouths is so bloody important to you, then you'll get that benefit for the expense of raising those whales. Good luck. That's never going to happen because the economics simply don't work. So zip it and eat your beef.

This farm animal bit doesn't even apply to Sea Shepherd which is a vegan organization, so if that's the best you folks can do, direct your criticism elsewhere.

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Is it so much better to 'farm' animals for food? Lots of animal eaten are not being farmed. You are sitting on a very high horse here, Yamato.

I don't see whaling being very harmful to the populations of the hunted whales. They are pretty high! If they maintain their limits, I really do not see the problem.

The Sea Shephard, a vegan organization, choosing a name that makes them sound like they are herding sea animals. :clap:

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The problem is not danger of extinction, at least in most cases, but that these animals are probably the closest to us in intellect you are going to find. At least that is my problem with it.

We all have to draw a line somewhere as to what it is ethical to kill for food and what isn't, and I include cetaceans on the human side of the line. Besides, have you ever seen how they kill a whale? It isn't quite the same as a sudden stun knocking the animal out.

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Is it so much better to 'farm' animals for food? Lots of animal eaten are not being farmed. You are sitting on a very high horse here, Yamato.

I don't see whaling being very harmful to the populations of the hunted whales. They are pretty high! If they maintain their limits, I really do not see the problem.

The Sea Shephard, a vegan organization, choosing a name that makes them sound like they are herding sea animals. :clap:

As i said can you yourself give me a given number of each one of these species left?As has already been posted in this topic some of these whales being hunted are endangered.Just because something is legal does not make it right!You seem to be of the mind i have noticed from some of the topics we have crossed ways on that having the last word makes you 100% correct.Well this is my last post on topic so consider yourself correct i guess.

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Is it so much better to 'farm' animals for food? Lots of animal eaten are not being farmed. You are sitting on a very high horse here, Yamato.

I don't see whaling being very harmful to the populations of the hunted whales. They are pretty high! If they maintain their limits, I really do not see the problem.

The Sea Shephard, a vegan organization, choosing a name that makes them sound like they are herding sea animals. :clap:

Is it so much better to 'farm' animals for food? Lots of animal eaten are not being farmed. You are sitting on a very high horse here, Yamato.

I don't see whaling being very harmful to the populations of the hunted whales. They are pretty high! If they maintain their limits, I really do not see the problem.

The Sea Shephard, a vegan organization, choosing a name that makes them sound like they are herding sea animals. :clap:

Shepherd: A person who protects, guides, or watches over.

Your faith in Japan's limits is touching but unfortunately the history of whaling and the depletion of one species' numbers after another countermands those naive hopes.

I don't see the problem if human populations are reduced to less than a billion worldwide. That way we can preserve our biodiversity and not have to sit idly by snipping at people like me just for caring.

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