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Japan will never stop whaling, minister says

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Our oceans are already dieing at an incredible rate due to pollution and disasters such as the oil spill and fukushima.The dead zones are growing more every year,i just think we should take care of what we have before it is all gone.

I agree 100%, what we need to do is realise that the Sea Shepherd has been at this for over 35 years and whaling is still going on. They are a failure, and big time, as violence tends to beget violence. The only time Whaling was every successfully stopped was with the 1986 moratorium. Japan had agreed to stop whaling and did, in 1987, they did not take even one whale.

What happened was America decided they might tell Japan what it's fishing boundaries now are, and Japan said "we need that fishing or we will not survive, we have little land, unlike America". America said tough cookies! and Japan said fine, we will just start whaling again then, but the deal had been signed - you see Japan did the right thing, and they were dumped on, and felt not only was their pride dented, but their food sources were suddenly being controlled by America, and what country would put up with that? Japan got mad at American, made up the "research" excuse, and legally continued Whaling again. Had America done the right thing, and had not said anything to begin with, the Japanese would not be taking whales today, but America thought, the treaty is signed, we can get away with murder, well apparently not, the Japanese are doing that with a research excuse. Thanks Uncle Sam. The Sea Shepherd maintains this bad blood, and capitalises from it with a TV show.

But the Sea Shepherd people do not tell people about that during Whale Wars. If they upset America, their show might get cut suddenly, and a whole bunch of people would stop making good money and huge publicity. It's not about conservation, it's about publicity, shmoosing politicians, and making a fat bankroll. We need someone that actually cares about the sea, and is humble enough to acknowledge to Japan that the wrong thing was done by them, and politely ask them "how can we fix it?"

Edited by psyche101
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I agree 100%, what we need to do is realise that the Sea Shepherd has been at this for over 35 years and whaling is still going on. They are a failure, and big time, as violence tends to beget violence. The only time Whaling was every successfully stopped was with the 1986 moratorium. Japan had agreed to stop whaling and did, in 1987, they did not take even one whale.

What happened was America decided they might tell Japan what it's fishing boundaries now are, and Japan said "we need that fishing or we will not survive, we have little land, unlike America". America said tough cookies! and Japan said fine, we will just start whaling again then, but the deal had been signed - you see Japan did the right thing, and they were dumped on, and felt not only was their pride dented, but their food sources were suddenly being controlled by America, and what country would put up with that? Japan got mad at American, made up the "research" excuse, and legally continued Whaling again. Had America done the right thing, and had not said anything to begin with, the Japanese would not be taking whales today, but America thought, the treaty is signed, we can get away with murder, well apparently not, the Japanese are doing that with a research excuse. Thanks Uncle Sam. The Sea Shepherd maintains this bad blood, and capitalises from it with a TV show.

But the Sea Shepherd people do not tell people about that during Whale Wars. If they upset America, their show might get cut suddenly, and a whole bunch of people would stop making good money and huge publicity. It's not about conservation, it's about publicity, shmoosing politicians, and making a fat bankroll. We need someone that actually cares about the sea, and is humble enough to acknowledge to Japan that the wrong thing was done by them, and politely ask them "how can we fix it?"

I do not watch whale wars usually if there is a tv show about something they are in it for the wrong reasons.PROFIT!

I also do not keep up with SS very much from the facts you have brought up they seem to be wasting their time doing very little.As you said something real needs to be done,some group with real balls needs to step forward before it is to late.

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I do not watch whale wars usually if there is a tv show about something they are in it for the wrong reasons.PROFIT!

It is indeed quite a big red flag I agree.

I also do not keep up with SS very much from the facts you have brought up they seem to be wasting their time doing very little.As you said something real needs to be done,some group with real balls needs to step forward before it is to late.

I am not sure why some people keep thinking they will have an effect, violence just does not work, especially vigilante violence. I think the fact that the International Whaling Commission revoked their observer status and calles them terrorists clearly shows they do not care to listen to anyone, so how can they learn? Year after year, all they do is taunt the Japanese to come back, the SS member who went to Japan to face trial has also left the Sea Shepherd Society with bad feelings. Many do. All they do is take advantage of others from what I have seen.

I share your wish, and hope someone can step up to the plate before this p***ing contest ends up in nothing more than extinction that Watson profits from.

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Forgive me for not having read much of the other replies (only the OP), but why should Japan stop whaling so long as the particular breed of whale is not endangered (for not all whales are endangered)?

Because Japan and other similar whaling nations do not 'conform' to every aspect of our way of life, we see them in a negative light when in reality it is the West and organisations like Sea Shepherd who are the real terrorists trying to impose their ideologies onto every aspect and every corner of the world. I say the 'West' mostly because it us who are so vocal about it.

Yet here we are trying to dictate to the likes of a whaling nation what to do, when we cannot even keeps tabs on our very own stock. What's worse is that we overlook the plight of other species and animals in our care; more concerned with issues that do not exist in the first place than other issues that we have caused.

And let me tell you why they don't exist.

What I find most pertinent of all is the fact that in the 1970s, Iceland (a whaling nation) warned the UK about the dangers of overfishing cod in the Atlantic Ocean. In order to protect their stocks they 'illegally' extended their fishing exclusion zones which infuriated the British fishermen who, in their quest to make a living didn't give two hoots about the population of cod stocks. This led to numerous wars between the two countries entitled the 'Cod Wars' where Iceland would intentionally cut the nets of British fishing trawlers. Yet despite Iceland (who were remember a whaling nation) and their protests, the Atlantic Cod was obliterated to near extinction thanks to overfishing across the Atlantic including by the USA, Canada and the rest of Europe in the 1990s. So a whaling nation was the only country to keep tabs on population stocks when the greatest exponents of the West's anti-whaling ideologies, had absolutely no clue as to what was happening right beneath their feet.

Some believe the cod stocks will never ever recover, as the animals that were formerly hunted by the predatory cod species have since seen population explosions that have in turn further compounded the problem by their decimation of cod eggs which never have a chance to develop. The funny thing is that the Atlantic Cod was only included on Green Peace's red list in 2010 - almost 20 years after the decimation occurred, and probably because it was merely a 'fish' did they not really give a damn about the species' plight until that time (even if they discussed the issue by as late as 2007). I'm sorry, but the West stinks of hypocrisy and the only thing that really annoys me is the fact that Japan have claimed the whale hunts are for scientific purposes in order to assuage the fears of people over here when they didn't have to and neither should they have done.

If the issue is because of the supposed 'intelligence' of whales then that doesn't cut it for me either, because pigs are routinely slaughtered everyday when it's well known that they are as intelligent - if not more so - than dogs (which is an animal that we readily accept in the west as a companion and where we look upon those cultures that eat them with disdain). The West should mind their own business (and I mean literally as in the Atlantic Cod debacle) before they dictate to other cultures what the hell to do with their lives, and so long as the whale species is not endangered then it is within the boundaries of acceptability. It's just like saying "oh wait we can't eat any fish whatever the species because the Atlantic Cod is near extinction and so they should be classified under one roof under one species as a whole". It's complete and utter claptrap from here in the West underling the double standards and hypocrisy.

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Well you should go back and read the thread; all your points have been discussed several times, so I doubt you will persuade anyone.

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It's about preserving natural habitats, ecosystems and species foremost.

Why shouldn't it also be about cruelty? Tell me, what is the crueler? Nearly beheading a cow at a slaughterhouse and killing it almost immediately, or shooting a whale in the back of the head with a harpoon and watching it suffer, panic and struggle until it drowns on its own blood more than 20 minutes later? If cruelty is the reason to further agree with me, I will accept that application also.

Deer have it worse. They typically take a shot or an arrow and then wander till they die.

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Did anyone ever tell you that two wrongs don't make a right?

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Did anyone ever tell you that two wrongs don't make a right?

Just trying to understand. Yamato said she was not against hunting turkeys or deer.

The issue for him/her is the hunting of animals with small overall populations. Nothing wrong with that.

How would you propose deer be hunted? The current way is not "wrong".

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I wouldn't hunt deer, but that is not relevant to the whale question. Hunting whales is worse because they are much more intelligent creatures.

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That is ALL the Sea Shepherd does. Garner publicity. You have convinced yourself that they do more than that, but you are wrong. The token gestures for the TV shows only ensure the TV show will have another season of Whale Wars.

What is my problem? I AM an Aussie, my taxpayer dollars assist, and clean up the messes these jerk offs leave behind. I am not happy that one brown cent that I work hard for goes to that terrorist organisation, and with their international pay TV "incentive" I will never get these filthy mongrels out of my pocket. I want REAL conservation, not an endless show pretending they care. If you are dim enough to give your money to these pirates, fine, but house them in your own backyard too. Not mine thanks. As an Aussie, I'd like to tell you and the Sea Shepherd to rack off. We do not want you or your so called BS help. Nor do we want your BS about Sovereign waters that nobody recognises. Go some other place and make your stupid show.

What does being the best country in the world have to do with anything?

Yeah, we do need courage not some jumped up upstart pirating his way across the seas we need someone with the fortitude to say "Hey Japan, we totally screwed up with the last moratorium, what would it take to get you to reconsider that position?"

Like in the year 19787 when Japan did not take even one whale. Thanks to negotiation.

Not some idiot throwing rancid butter at boats. What they hell do you think that is actually doing? Making them all stinky huh! That showed them Whalers!

What we need is for you do gooders to stay in your own country and shut the hell up. If you want the stupid TV show so bad, shoot it in your own backyard!

I feel exactly the same way about you. I do not think you give a rodents rectum about Whaling, just Whale Wars. You do not understand sovereign waters one little bit, and when I offered to ask Marine Biologists to come into the other thread and explain it in better than I have you insulted me in PM. You have issues Yam, anger issues. So does Watson, and that is your problem. You cannot even maintain yourself in a forum without having to resort to PM to insult!

And I am glad you did answer, I have asked you before to not bother with Youtube, as I do not hold it in very high regard as my signature says, but I did read the link, and it says exactly what I have been saying. There is collusion between the Sea Shepherd and some rotten mongrel in Australia's Labour/Green Government. Dirty politicians, who I would not mind betting get a cut from Whale Wars. From your link:

Commission for the Conservation of Southern Bluefin Tuna (CCSBT): Since 1992, Australia, Japan, and New Zealand have ordered seabird mitigation measures to be used in their Southern bluefin tuna longline fishery and made the use of bird-scaring lines mandatory in their fisheries. In 1996, Australia required all vessels fishing below 30 degrees south latitude to use bird-scaring lines.

Notice how the Sea Shepherd turns a blind eye to Australia's long lines because of some BS excuse? What the hell is bird scaring going to do 30 degrees below south latitude? Save half the birds is better than none is it? How many Australian Ships do they mention confiscating lines from? Are they trying to say no fishing vessels from Australia use long lines? Get real man! It's a free pass, and why? Because of the mongrels taking the payoff from those bloody pirates Gee, hope you do not mind the idea of you donation being used for graft and corruption! Might have been a nice bottle of red for some moron pollie even. Appropriate that would be.

You are a perfect example of TV conservation. You think you are doing the right thing, yet in the end, all you are keeping alive is a TV show that capitalises on that which you think you are assisting. The Sea Shepherd are terrorist crooks. Nothing more, and there are warrants to prove it.

Even the International Whaling Commission revokes their observers status, and calls them terrorists, these are the people who you are trying to actually help by not helping, yet even when the highest whaling authority on the planet, who know more about whales than Paul Watson does about TV, are asking them to rack off. What does it take to get the message across? The Sea Shepherd is not welcomed by thinking Aussies, nor is the Whale Wars show helpful in any way. Go away pirates. And keep your money Yam. Spend it in whatever country you live in. Stop Bloody Helping! It's not wanted!

Are you American by any chance Yam? Is that your problem? You know it was a decision from your country that created this situation that we have today, and you want to shift the blame is it?

I will never trust the bureaucracy to do what's right for the environment. Like I'm some kind of advocate for my country doing the right thing. Talk about singing to the choir! The biggest polluters on the face of the earth, the institutions and governments that tell us how to live and why we should propagate, how we should consume so many resources, and where every conceivable line of man gets drawn is no manner of authority to tell me how to live or what to value. I value the lives of whales and the best way to save whales is to confront whale poachers physically in the act of their butchery and shut them down cold. Japan is by far the biggest whaling operation on the planet; Sea Shepherd is right to put their resources into shutting it down.

Don't get personal with me. You accuse me of lying 10 times in one reply and you can't even document one when challenged. Grow up, don't get personal. Keep it on topic. This is not about me. You're desperate and so you have to make it about me, it's the only thing you can authoritatively talk about since you know all about me. Your BS opinions about Sea Shepherd that you're too embarrassed to document your sources after asking you four times mean nothing to me. You can't make up in word count for empty rhetoric. You telling me "all Sea Shepherd does" is pointless. You lost all credibility with me when you got personal and called me a liar. You might as bang your head on the wall. Garnering publicity is extremely effective at pumping up their balance sheet. They've put millions of people from across the globe into their wheelhouse thanks to having the #1 rated show on Animal Planet and with further exposure they will hopefully get hundreds of millions more. That's the way to win the war while they're winning the battle in the meantime.

There are a million environmental issues out there to grab onto and defend. Sea Shepherd can't be everywhere at all times to convince even every sofa lounging critic who has all the good ideas but utter impotence to do something with them. I referred you to the 52 minute speech given by Paul Watson speaking on Animal Rights where he addressed all the other conservationists and all the other work that they're doing. It's all important. It's all worthwhile. Nobody is doing everything but they're the ones doing what they can and that makes all the difference.

Physically blocking the factory ship from transferring whales has proven effective. There's always new tactics, new weapons, new ideas that deserve consideration to shut these poachers down any non-violent way possible. I've advocated building an "acid cannon" which incorporates an acid injector behind the barrel of the Steve Irwin's water cannon which can spray right through the protective multi-million dollar taxpayer netting on the Nisshin Maru and bathe the whale being processed on the flensing deck with taint. Another idea I've advocated for is to record the sounds these whales are making when they're dying slow and torturous deaths from the illegal Japanese whale poachers' harpoons and blast them at all angles while escorting the disgusting Japanese whaling vessels.

They have an excellent series on Youtube called 'Meet the Crew' which I recommend for your viewing pleasure. What other organization gives every employee the chance to speak out regardless of rank or role? That is pure class. Here's an episode. Your "terrorists". LOL

Edited by Yamato

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industrial fishing is wasteful because of most of net catches are poured back into the sea 'dead' because permits and license issued by 'law'

Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall Fish Fight

"Half the fish caught in the North Sea are thrown back dead. Please help stop this waste by signing the petition at www.fishfight.net" Coldplay

http://www.fishfight.net/#

~note : took me half an hour to google Hugh's name ..... media blackout looks like

the corporates hates Hugh, he had a run in with the big money over chickens some time back with Hugh' Chicken run

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I will never trust the bureaucracy to do what's right for the environment. Like I'm some kind of advocate for my country doing the right thing. Talk about singing to the choir! The biggest polluters on the face of the earth, the institutions and governments that tell us how to live and why we should propagate, how we should consume so many resources, and where every conceivable line of man gets drawn is no manner of authority to tell me how to live or what to value. I value the lives of whales and the best way to save whales is to confront whale poachers physically in the act of their butchery and shut them down cold. Japan is by far the biggest whaling operation on the planet; Sea Shepherd is right to put their resources into shutting it down.

1 - You are trusting the bureaucracy, you keep quoting Aussie Pollies who have not a clue about territory, and keep citing some made up boundary. The map provided shows Australia's territorial waters, please show where they have been breached by placing marks on the map

2 - What country? Are you an Aussie?

3 - You are telling Japan how they should live, and what they can do, this is how the US managed to get us into the situation we are in right now.

4 - The Whalers are not poachers, that is just emotional rhetoric. They are breaking no laws, or they would not be on the Oceans, they take advantage of a loophole. On the other hand, the Sea Shepherd is breaking laws and do not have the right to terrorise others. Rules are rules, wether you agree with them or not.

Don't get personal with me. You accuse me of lying 10 times in one reply and you can't even document one when challenged. Grow up, don't get personal. Keep it on topic. This is not about me. You're desperate and so you have to make it about me, it's the only thing you can authoritatively talk about since you know all about me. Your BS opinions about Sea Shepherd that you're too embarrassed to document your sources after asking you four times mean nothing to me. You can't make up in word count for empty rhetoric. You telling me "all Sea Shepherd does" is pointless. You lost all credibility with me when you got personal and called me a liar. You might as bang your head on the wall. Garnering publicity is extremely effective at pumping up their balance sheet. They've put millions of people from across the globe into their wheelhouse thanks to having the #1 rated show on Animal Planet and with further exposure they will hopefully get hundreds of millions more. That's the way to win the war while they're winning the battle in the meantime.

I am not getting personal with you, I would not even know you if I tripped over you in the street, I am pointing out that your information is false. If you take that personally, that is not my problem. You did post a lie, and I gave examples of where you did, and why. I also gave you a link to where I got that long list of Sea Shepherd charges in the other thread, and gave the link to you twice, here it is for a third time, but if you were to read posts instead of just skimming them and ranting Watson rhetoric, you would know this.

LINK - BIG LETTERS SO YOU CANNOT MISS IT A THIRD TIME IRC WHALE .ORG THE SEA SHEPHERDS VIOLENT HISTORY.

Got it now?

I do not care what you think about my opinion of Watson and his band of pirates, all I care about is presenting facts to right the wrongs you keep posting. And really, I do not care what "means" something to you at all. You are a thug who does not know how to discuss a situation, only tackle it with violence, and you have shown this for your misguided support off the Sea Shepherd, all the while turning a blind eye to the very fact that even the International Whaling Commission has asked ousted them for their violent vigilante actions. The IWC does not want them on the waters, and I am certainly not the only Aussie who wants this band of pirates removed from making a bad situation worse.

Do you honestly believe for one second that the Sea Shepherds antics will stop whaling? Even after 35 years of failure to do so?

I did not call you a liar, I said you posted a lie. If it is your thoughts, or more rhetoric that you have stolen from Watson, I have no idea. But your information is wrong, and when you insist it is right, that is spreading a lie. Prove your claim rather than complaining that I do not accept it, as that is the right thing to do, but something you have been unable to accomplish.

The funny thing here is you are illustrating exactly what Watson is about - TV. Millions at the wheelhouse?? LOL, sounds like you stole that from a Whale Whores TV ad or something. 41491_1157457323_3622_q.jpg

That is the one thing you are right about - millions of viewers, and money pouring in, again I ask, how much of that money goes to animal welfare?

For you, it's just a stupid TV show, I live here, make your dumb show someplace else.

There are a million environmental issues out there to grab onto and defend. Sea Shepherd can't be everywhere at all times to convince even every sofa lounging critic who has all the good ideas but utter impotence to do something with them. I referred you to the 52 minute speech given by Paul Watson speaking on Animal Rights where he addressed all the other conservationists and all the other work that they're doing. It's all important. It's all worthwhile. Nobody is doing everything but they're the ones doing what they can and that makes all the difference.

Everywhere at once indeed. You do realise the Sea Shepherd docks in Australia all the bloody time dont you?

Then why does Australia manage to fly under the conservation RADAR? Why do we never get harassed No you cannot be everywhere at once, but the Bloody Sea Shepherd is here all the damn time. I have seen the Steve Irwin myself docked at Brisbane Harbour. I did not realise what they were at the time, if I see them again I'lll be meeting them with a couple dozen rotten eggs. Let's see how they like being stinky because someone does not want them around.

The Labour/Green Government are covering for Watson, it would not shock me at all to find they enjoy massive kickbacks. It's a joke. The Sea Shepherd is often in Australia and has parked close to Sea World, and not said Boo about captive Dolphins. Hell, Pam Anderson made a visit and had the time to pop into my local KFC to make a PETA ruckus, Watson is not even as pro active, or gutsy enough to take on the Aussie Government as is a girl.

It is plainly obvious that the Sea Shepherd does not poop in it's own backyard, so Australia gets a free conservation ticket. Politics, TV shows and money. That is what the Sea Shepherd society is best at manipulating, not whalers, the whalers just come back every year. Sea Shepherd seems good for growth in the whaling industry if anything.

Physically blocking the factory ship from transferring whales has proven effective. There's always new tactics, new weapons, new ideas that deserve consideration to shut these poachers down any non-violent way possible. I've advocated building an "acid cannon" which incorporates an acid injector behind the barrel of the Steve Irwin's water cannon which can spray right through the protective multi-million dollar taxpayer netting on the Nisshin Maru and bathe the whale being processed on the flensing deck with taint. Another idea I've advocated for is to record the sounds these whales are making when they're dying slow and torturous deaths from the illegal Japanese whale poachers' harpoons and blast them at all angles while escorting the disgusting Japanese whaling vessels.

No it has not proven effective, the whalers just trundle off someplace else and kill another whale, and come back again the next year, The only acceptable solution is to stop the whaling, not make it a TV Gameshow. If hauls are reduced by a certain amount one year, does that stop the Japanese killing again next year? It makes them more determined to up their defences and ENSURE they make future quotas. Watson knows this, and it is good for the TV show.

And you think that tainting a dead whale body is effective? What make you think they wont consider it part of the "quota" and just catch another? How will that affect the "quota"? That is just inciting the Japanese to try harder. Bloody stupid moronic idea, and bound to make Japan more determined. Is your only answer violence?

What do you have against negotiation, which has been proven effective on the past? Why do you not see the complete abstinence by Japan in 1987 as a ray of light? Why do you not want to try and fix what the US broke?

I can only fathom that you do not want to lose your favourite TV show. As far as I can see, that is what Whaling is to you, a TV show. I do not think you would know a minke from a blue, but you would know Paul Watson at 100 paces.

Advocated? Is that what you get for funding pirates is it? A chance to vote on what form of violence you will deploy to keep the Japanese coming back year after year? You must be very proud of yourself.

They have an excellent series on Youtube called 'Meet the Crew' which I recommend for your viewing pleasure. What other organization gives every employee the chance to speak out regardless of rank or role? That is pure class. Here's an episode. Your "terrorists". LOL

There is nothing classy about breaking the law and terrorism, nothing. What organisation? Do you vote? Do you work?

Maybe you just sit around and watch TV and give your benefits to terrorists while you bleed you parents, I do not know, and I do not care, but each time you post false information, I will correct it, so the real story is out there as well, not Watson's TV rhetoric. And the real story is uglier than Japanese Whalers. It's the graft and corruption behind making a buck from this sad situation, and keeping the show alive.

Yes terrorists, the law has made that decision, not me, it is the legal standing of Watsons crew and Watson himself. The International Whaling Commission has asked them to move on, they are not wanted, not by the Whaling Commission, not by many Aussies. Some just canot take a hint I suppose. But they are popular on the telly I grant. After all, it is what they are all about, and what they are best at.

I have said before, I do not care what Pirates, Terrorists and Politicians have to say in the subject, I base my opinion and stance on information provided by Marine Biologists. You know, people who devote their entire lives to this very subject and know more than the entire Aussie Government and Watson's crew tied together and folded over. AKA Experts in the field who are not biased by TV or politics. I really think they have a much better idea than Australian Green/Labor politicians, and a bunch of pirate come terrorists.

Read my sig too please.

Edited by psyche101
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Did anyone ever tell you that two wrongs don't make a right?

:tu:

Like the Sea Shepherd and Whaling.

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Here is Paul Watson. The man speaks:

Watson: “You see, the seal is very easy to exploit as an image. We have posters, we have buttons; we have shirts … all of which portray the head of the baby seal with tears coming out of its eyes. Baby seals are always crying because the salt tears keep their eyes from

freezing. But they have this image of ... they are baby animals; they are beautiful. And because of that, coupled with the horror of the sealer hitting them over the head with a club, it is an image which just goes right to the heart of animal lovers all over North America.”

Anyone who says he is not about manipulating the general public for profit is only kidding themselves. From the above link I left Yam if anyone is interested in reading more about the Sea Shepherds Violent History.

Edited by psyche101
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Cant SS spend money on something else rather than buying ex coast guard ships and amouring them? I think we need to sink of all SS ships

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Deer have it worse. They typically take a shot or an arrow and then wander till they die.

Only if you're a bad shot. If you hit the right spot, the animal usually goes down quiet quick.

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with a 50mm you get instant finger food

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1 - You are trusting the bureaucracy, you keep quoting Aussie Pollies who have not a clue about territory, and keep citing some made up boundary. The map provided shows Australia's territorial waters, please show where they have been breached by placing marks on the map

2 - What country? Are you an Aussie?

3 - You are telling Japan how they should live, and what they can do, this is how the US managed to get us into the situation we are in right now.

4 - The Whalers are not poachers, that is just emotional rhetoric. They are breaking no laws, or they would not be on the Oceans, they take advantage of a loophole. On the other hand, the Sea Shepherd is breaking laws and do not have the right to terrorise others. Rules are rules, wether you agree with them or not.

I am not getting personal with you, I would not even know you if I tripped over you in the street, I am pointing out that your information is false. If you take that personally, that is not my problem. You did post a lie, and I gave examples of where you did, and why. I also gave you a link to where I got that long list of Sea Shepherd charges in the other thread, and gave the link to you twice, here it is for a third time, but if you were to read posts instead of just skimming them and ranting Watson rhetoric, you would know this.

LINK - BIG LETTERS SO YOU CANNOT MISS IT A THIRD TIME IRC WHALE .ORG THE SEA SHEPHERDS VIOLENT HISTORY.

Got it now?

I do not care what you think about my opinion of Watson and his band of pirates, all I care about is presenting facts to right the wrongs you keep posting. And really, I do not care what "means" something to you at all. You are a thug who does not know how to discuss a situation, only tackle it with violence, and you have shown this for your misguided support off the Sea Shepherd, all the while turning a blind eye to the very fact that even the International Whaling Commission has asked ousted them for their violent vigilante actions. The IWC does not want them on the waters, and I am certainly not the only Aussie who wants this band of pirates removed from making a bad situation worse.

Do you honestly believe for one second that the Sea Shepherds antics will stop whaling? Even after 35 years of failure to do so?

I did not call you a liar, I said you posted a lie. If it is your thoughts, or more rhetoric that you have stolen from Watson, I have no idea. But your information is wrong, and when you insist it is right, that is spreading a lie. Prove your claim rather than complaining that I do not accept it, as that is the right thing to do, but something you have been unable to accomplish.

The funny thing here is you are illustrating exactly what Watson is about - TV. Millions at the wheelhouse?? LOL, sounds like you stole that from a Whale Whores TV ad or something. 41491_1157457323_3622_q.jpg

That is the one thing you are right about - millions of viewers, and money pouring in, again I ask, how much of that money goes to animal welfare?

For you, it's just a stupid TV show, I live here, make your dumb show someplace else.

Everywhere at once indeed. You do realise the Sea Shepherd docks in Australia all the bloody time dont you?

Then why does Australia manage to fly under the conservation RADAR? Why do we never get harassed No you cannot be everywhere at once, but the Bloody Sea Shepherd is here all the damn time. I have seen the Steve Irwin myself docked at Brisbane Harbour. I did not realise what they were at the time, if I see them again I'lll be meeting them with a couple dozen rotten eggs. Let's see how they like being stinky because someone does not want them around.

The Labour/Green Government are covering for Watson, it would not shock me at all to find they enjoy massive kickbacks. It's a joke. The Sea Shepherd is often in Australia and has parked close to Sea World, and not said Boo about captive Dolphins. Hell, Pam Anderson made a visit and had the time to pop into my local KFC to make a PETA ruckus, Watson is not even as pro active, or gutsy enough to take on the Aussie Government as is a girl.

It is plainly obvious that the Sea Shepherd does not poop in it's own backyard, so Australia gets a free conservation ticket. Politics, TV shows and money. That is what the Sea Shepherd society is best at manipulating, not whalers, the whalers just come back every year. Sea Shepherd seems good for growth in the whaling industry if anything.

No it has not proven effective, the whalers just trundle off someplace else and kill another whale, and come back again the next year, The only acceptable solution is to stop the whaling, not make it a TV Gameshow. If hauls are reduced by a certain amount one year, does that stop the Japanese killing again next year? It makes them more determined to up their defences and ENSURE they make future quotas. Watson knows this, and it is good for the TV show.

And you think that tainting a dead whale body is effective? What make you think they wont consider it part of the "quota" and just catch another? How will that affect the "quota"? That is just inciting the Japanese to try harder. Bloody stupid moronic idea, and bound to make Japan more determined. Is your only answer violence?

What do you have against negotiation, which has been proven effective on the past? Why do you not see the complete abstinence by Japan in 1987 as a ray of light? Why do you not want to try and fix what the US broke?

I can only fathom that you do not want to lose your favourite TV show. As far as I can see, that is what Whaling is to you, a TV show. I do not think you would know a minke from a blue, but you would know Paul Watson at 100 paces.

Advocated? Is that what you get for funding pirates is it? A chance to vote on what form of violence you will deploy to keep the Japanese coming back year after year? You must be very proud of yourself.

There is nothing classy about breaking the law and terrorism, nothing. What organisation? Do you vote? Do you work?

Maybe you just sit around and watch TV and give your benefits to terrorists while you bleed you parents, I do not know, and I do not care, but each time you post false information, I will correct it, so the real story is out there as well, not Watson's TV rhetoric. And the real story is uglier than Japanese Whalers. It's the graft and corruption behind making a buck from this sad situation, and keeping the show alive.

Yes terrorists, the law has made that decision, not me, it is the legal standing of Watsons crew and Watson himself. The International Whaling Commission has asked them to move on, they are not wanted, not by the Whaling Commission, not by many Aussies. Some just canot take a hint I suppose. But they are popular on the telly I grant. After all, it is what they are all about, and what they are best at.

I have said before, I do not care what Pirates, Terrorists and Politicians have to say in the subject, I base my opinion and stance on information provided by Marine Biologists. You know, people who devote their entire lives to this very subject and know more than the entire Aussie Government and Watson's crew tied together and folded over. AKA Experts in the field who are not biased by TV or politics. I really think they have a much better idea than Australian Green/Labor politicians, and a bunch of pirate come terrorists.

Read my sig too please.

The link starts out "Founding member of Greenpeace, Paul Watson..." and you're contesting that Paul Watson is a founding member of Greenpeace. So every letter of every source of information that's negative or critical of Sea Shepherd is true, but I should reject the positive stuff as untrue, and if I circulate anything positive about them, I'm a "liar". Got it.

Sea Shepherd is a privately owned non-profit organization that doesn't rely on bureaucracy to tell them what to do, or where to get their marching orders. Saying that I'm trusting in a bureaucracy is the height of confusion. I'm the one that's not trusting the bureaucracy that's why I'm supporting "pirates" because I don't believe a word the bureaucracy says, especially the whaling bureaucracy.

I'm telling Japan to get out of Australian waters. As a self-described Aussie, you don't even know where your own sovereign territory is. Denying what Australia officially recognizes as sovereign Austrlian territory makes you look demented. And it has nothing to do with me personally or some political party, or a few "idiot" Australian politicians. It's your entire country. You're a person, clueless of what your country recognizes as its own territory. You have a very unpopular opinion. It's detestable. Trying to force it down my throat isn't going to change my mind. Getting personal and calling me a liar has ruined your credibility.

If Sea Shepherd are "terrorists" then why doesn't your government go out to arrest them? Why are they allowed to refuel and take up supplies in port? Why Is Peter Bethune a free man? Your claims ring hollow when your own government is at odds with every foolish claim you make. You're a talking head of the whaling establishment. Shameful.

The whalers are breaking the letters of laws, the spirit of laws, they have no respect for Australian sovereignty, violating the AAT, the Australian EEZ, the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary, the global moratorium, refueling below 60 degrees. They only respect their own laws, their own quotas, their own opinions. And you think that Japanese law applies in your own waters.

Stop pretending this has been adjudicated. Stop pretending that your poorly-formed opinions are the legal last word. Your country has taken Japan to court. Do you understand that? When that case is decided, then you can come run your mouth about how legal Japan is. When we actually read the laws concerning this issue, it doesn't look good for Japan at all. There is a legal basis for enforcement in the World Charter for Nature, it just burns your rear end that someone is actually acting on it instead of just thinking they're empty words that nobody can do anything about but sit on their hands and lie and deny that the law doesn't exist.

The rest of your flatulence getting personal with me is and will be ignored. It doesn't matter to me what political labels, names you call Sea Shepherd. Calling a non-violent organization that never killed anyone in 36 years "terrorists" makes you look confused in the eyes of your own country. If you hate Sea Shepherd so much, scrape yourself up off your couch and go blather to your own gubmint officials who are letting them get away with such "terrorism". In the meantime, the subsidized whaling fleet is going to continue getting its yearly spanking no matter how hard you cry about it.

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I'm just wondering, what scientific research is Japan conducting where it needs to kill 900+ minke, and 50+ fin whales a year for, 10...15 years? If you are killing the whales for food, which they are, then call it that. If the Japanese are actually doing research and need to kill this many whales, then I think they suck at research.

...And that prop fowler is hilarious, it never works!

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the sad thing about all this is its not actually about "whales" not really

it's about trade barriers, deficits, industrial sector employment strength, economic percentages,

it is all financial numbers in digital smoke and mirrors

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The link starts out "Founding member of Greenpeace, Paul Watson..." and you're contesting that Paul Watson is a founding member of Greenpeace. So every letter of every source of information that's negative or critical of Sea Shepherd is true, but I should reject the positive stuff as untrue, and if I circulate anything positive about them, I'm a "liar". Got it.

You finally spotted the link!! Good for you, only took 3 goes! Well done.

Yes I am contesting it, the person claiming he is a founding member is Paul Watson, so you cannot say this source has given him every benefit of the doubt, and even with that in this side, he still stinks to high heaven.

This is direct from the Greenpeace Website:

Paul Watson became active with Greenpeace in 1971 as a member of our second expedition against nuclear weapons testing in Amchitka, and went on to participate in actions against whaling and the killing of harp seals. He was an influential early member but not, as he sometimes claims, a founder.

LINK

Grepeace acknowledges Watson as an early member, he was not a founder, and he bloody was not either, Greenpeace was preceded by the "Don't Make A Wave Committee" please show me something with Watsons name on it from that organisation.

And now he is a pirate come terrorist.

Sea Shepherd is a privately owned non-profit organization that doesn't rely on bureaucracy to tell them what to do, or where to get their marching orders. Saying that I'm trusting in a bureaucracy is the height of confusion. I'm the one that's not trusting the bureaucracy that's why I'm supporting "pirates" because I don't believe a word the bureaucracy says, especially the whaling bureaucracy.

Why do you keep pointing me at Australian politicians then? What is confusing is your wishy washy stance.

Sea Shepherd does not listen to anyone, or they would not be deliberately making matters worse for the sake of a TV show. Conservationists are asking them to rack off, politicians remain neutral and sway with public opinion. They will turn on the Sea Shepherd like Waston turned on Bethune when opinion sways.

You are supporting pirates probably because you are American, and refuse to take the blame, and hope to shift it, and like a good ally you expect Aussies to play along. No dice Yam.

Factoid: A Yam is a like a small potato here.

I'm telling Japan to get out of Australian waters. As a self-described Aussie, you don't even know where your own sovereign territory is. Denying what Australia officially recognizes as sovereign Austrlian territory makes you look demented. And it has nothing to do with me personally or some political party, or a few "idiot" Australian politicians. It's your entire country. You're a person, clueless of what your country recognizes as its own territory. You have a very unpopular opinion. It's detestable. Trying to force it down my throat isn't going to change my mind. Getting personal and calling me a liar has ruined your credibility.

What Australian waters?

I gave you a map of your waters, I am still waiting for you to show me a mark on it where Australian waters have been breached. You are totally making that part up, and keep repeating it, so what else can I call it but a lie? Patricularly when you repeat this misinformation and I have you a map to show where you are right, but you have not done so, and I know why, because your claim is simply not true. Get upset about that all you like, it does not change the cold hard fact that Japanese Whalers do not enter Australian waters, that is completely made up Yam.

Prove it Yam, go ahead, I double dog dare you, show me on the map of Australian Waters where Whaling has breached it.

Money where you mouth is Yam, please mark on the map where our boundaries are breached. What you keep rabbiting on about is Antarctic claims, which are recognised by 4 LOUSY COUNTRIES 190 out of 194 countries DO NOT RECOGNISE THIS ANTARCTIC ClAIM and that is the BS the likes of Bob Brown base their loose rhetoric upon, but you should know better by now, you must be truly thick to still not understand that no boundaries have been breached, not one.

Stop telling Japan to get out of the Southern Whale Sacntuary unless you are on the UN or are Japanese, I keep telling you WE DO NOT WANT YOUR HELP KEEP YOUR MONEY MAKE YOUR TV SHOW SOMEPLACE ELSE WE DO NOT WANT YOUR "SO CALLED SUPPORT"

You are forcing your ideals down my entire countries throat, you are a hypocrite of international proportions. Just go bloody away and save the Harp Seals or something would ya?

Show me the marks on the provided map. If not then you are deliberately outright lying now, that task should really be quite simple according to yourself.

If Sea Shepherd are "terrorists" then why doesn't your government go out to arrest them? Why are they allowed to refuel and take up supplies in port? Why Is Peter Bethune a free man? Your claims ring hollow when your own government is at odds with every foolish claim you make. You're a talking head of the whaling establishment. Shameful.

Because they did not break the law here in Australia, again, if you were to read a little, such simple questions would not confound you so easily. Look at the list of charges again, where are the warrants?

Australia has elections coming up, last thing they need right now is voter controversy. Labour will get the Sea Shepherd supporters as voters, I just hope more Aussies get educated each year and see the Sea Shepherds true agenda. I am disgusted in this government and hope when the new one comes in that they might be more partial to an more evenly based reporting of these pirates.

The whalers are breaking the letters of laws, the spirit of laws, they have no respect for Australian sovereignty, violating the AAT, the Australian EEZ, the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary, the global moratorium, refueling below 60 degrees. They only respect their own laws, their own quotas, their own opinions. And you think that Japanese law applies in your own waters.

At least they know where our boundaries are, Watson has confused most of Australia so the average citizen really has no idea.

Australian Sovereignty has not been breached, The AAT Australian Antarctic Territory is recognised by 4 countries out of 194, so that is more than Japan against you there, no whaling has taken place in Australias EEZ, Whalers took a shortcut through it, and have been hung up to dry over that, but at the end of the day it's minor trespassing, nothing to get excited about, and certainly no whaling taking place there, and the Japanese do not breach the moratorium or they would be in court. Greenpeace is the only organisation who has made the Japanese nervous about breaching the moratorium, which they pulled support from when the US decided to reduce their allowed fishing territories. You know actual recognised boundaries that all parties recognise, not like your flimsy sovereign claim which is 100% pure steaming BS.

Stop pretending this has been adjudicated. Stop pretending that your poorly-formed opinions are the legal last word. Your country has taken Japan to court. Do you understand that? When that case is decided, then you can come run your mouth about how legal Japan is. When we actually read the laws concerning this issue, it doesn't look good for Japan at all. There is a legal basis for enforcement in the World Charter for Nature, it just burns your rear end that someone is actually acting on it instead of just thinking they're empty words that nobody can do anything about but sit on their hands and lie and deny that the law doesn't exist.

I have pretended nothing, I have only posted information that refutes your fantasy claims abut mythical sovereign boundaries. It's the law, and as I keep asking, can you please show me where Whalers have breached our sovereignty. I understand the law, and do not fall for some bleeding heart rhetoric on a TV show, based on the same dishonest SS principal like the Baby Harp Seal sign is. Do you understand that? I do not care how passionate you are, I do not care about your opinion, I do not care about your made up boundaries, and I do not care for your TV show, rack of someplace else and make it. It's lying sensationalist crap. I do not care how Japan looks all I care is what someone tries to actually have a go at stopping the barbarism instead of using TV to capitalise on it, and if you think anything else is going on, then you are only kidding yourself.

Use you so called laws to lock the Whalers up, go ahead. Make a TV show out of it, and run it from your own country please, it's not wanted down here. Some of us are smarter than to fall for that BS which only ensures another year of whaling.

The rest of your flatulence getting personal with me is and will be ignored. It doesn't matter to me what political labels, names you call Sea Shepherd. Calling a non-violent organization that never killed anyone in 36 years "terrorists" makes you look confused in the eyes of your own country. If you hate Sea Shepherd so much, scrape yourself up off your couch and go blather to your own gubmint officials who are letting them get away with such "terrorism". In the meantime, the subsidized whaling fleet is going to continue getting its yearly spanking no matter how hard you cry about it.

I know it does not matter to you, I do not care, you do not seem to understand that I have not want to convert you, you are a mindless thug who thinks he can bully a whole nation because some fat idiot on TV said so. I do not know that you can be helped, all I will do is counter every piece of misinformation you post with the actual truth and the letter of the law to show the Sea Shepherd for what it is - a manipulating greedy private band of pirates come terrorists that capitalises from that which it claims to defend. They are terrorists, I have given you the list of charges, that is the law, terrorism is not a matter of opinion, but like those who supported the slaughter at 911 some do seem to be of that impression.

No I do not look confused in the eyes of my country, I would relish in debating Gillard over her bad management of the situation. But if you thunk I look confused in the eyes of or PM, then I am quite fine with that, I think she would become confused by having to tie shoelaces.

LOL, you are such an overbearing fool, the couch is the one place I would kill to spend time at, my worst problem is that there is only 24 hours in a day. Be nice to float about, pretend your some sort of an authority, and get paid to have Internet morons fawn over me, but hey one has to sleep at night as well. I often wonder how Watson manages that.

I will certainly vote against the current Government in the upcoming election, and perhaps you have just given me the inspiration for a campaign against them, involving the Sea Shepherd, and the graft and corruption going on there.

What you call spanking, most people realise is taunting, but spanking is good as a definition. When you "spank" an entire nation like Japan, get ready for repercussions, that is how things work, because believe it or not, the world is bigger than just you Yam. And Japan is going to respond to the spanking like a teenager would, by going twice as hard. Gee, that will help whaling wont it. Lets keep going until we have two massive fleets on the water in a pising contest and no whales, yeah, good show Yam.

Edited by psyche101

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Saying its about tradition and Japanese cuisine is the way they justify it. The reality is it is very much about whales -- living, intelligent, feeling beings.

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I'm just wondering, what scientific research is Japan conducting where it needs to kill 900+ minke, and 50+ fin whales a year for, 10...15 years? If you are killing the whales for food, which they are, then call it that. If the Japanese are actually doing research and need to kill this many whales, then I think they suck at research.

...And that prop fowler is hilarious, it never works!

It is a lie, but most people involved know that already, what happened was Japan agreed to stop taking whales, and did, in 1987 they did not take one whale. All because everyone had signed support for the whaling moratorium, then when the signatures were down, the US changed it;s mind abut fishing and decided to reduce Japans legal fishing grounds, to which Japan too offence, and said they do noot have the land America des and need the fishing rights, and removed their support from the moratorium. The US figured they had screwed Japan, to which Japan used the research Loophole to show the US they will not be pushed around. Why the heck the Sea Shepherd is involved in anyone's guess, their "support" is not wanted, as all it does is produce a TV show.

The real problem lies between the US and Japan, we are all just caught in the middle trying to stop this feud costing us all, and all the Sea Shepherd does is like the US, give Japan another reason to come back next year. They need to go, they are not helping.

Greenpeace, not the Sea Shepherd were the ones who actually proved the meat is not being taken for research.

Japan's Stolen Whale Meat Scandal LINK

Following a four-month investigation, on May 15, 2008, Greenpeace exposed a major scandal within the Japanese commercial whaling industry, by presenting a box of prime cut whale meat valued at US$3,000, to the Tokyo Prosecutor’s Office as evidence of embezzlement.

That is positive action. And no violence required. Just a lab.

The Japanese people are hardly wholly behind Whaling as well, so it is indeed politics, and between the US and Japan. Our loud mouth down under ill informed pollies do not seem to be helping one bit.

LINK - Japan split on whale hunts, poll shows

26% of people polled agree with expeditions while 18% oppose them, and 88% have not bought whale meat in past 12 months

Edited by psyche101

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Saying its about tradition and Japanese cuisine is the way they justify it. The reality is it is very much about whales -- living, intelligent, feeling beings.

We all know that is merely an excuse to tell the US not to stop Japan fishing. If they cannot fish, they will whale. That is why the 1986 moratorium fell apart.

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the sad thing about all this is its not actually about "whales" not really

it's about trade barriers, deficits, industrial sector employment strength, economic percentages,

it is all financial numbers in digital smoke and mirrors

Not agreed in the past with you, but I certainly do today. TV shows, elections, saving face for the US and Japan, sanctions, economic strangleholds, all play a part in this ugly game.

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