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pantodragon

Isn't a "free" internet wonderful?

76 posts in this topic

The main reason it won't happen is because anyone trying to charge a fee would lose all their customers to competitors overnight. The incremental cost of providing the service is not great enough to prevent this, even if all existing providers got together on a fee, new providers would appear.

Absolutely. Hotmail, Google, Yahoo, etc, provide free email because of three advertising revenue their brand provides. Start charging, everyone leaves, and then the sponsors and advertisers go away and find a new product that the masses use. All it would need is one person to outlay the money to start their own free email service, and the sponsors and advertisers will get on board when the crowds come. No current email company would commit suicide like that.

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Posted (edited)

My point was the freebies are the bait they use to reel you in. If you have a freebie now (which, of course, isn't actually free -- you ARE paying for it somewhere) you can bet that somewhere along the line, when they've got you hooked or when they've cut off all the alternatives, they'll suddenly start charging --- that's business. Lie and cheat and steal from the customer. Just don't let him know you're doing it. People used to know this, but business has done such a successful white-washing of its image (donating to charities (actually the customer is donating to charities), being classed as ethical, or environmentally friendly etc) that people have forgotten this truth.

You are a customer. You are using a product. You can expect to be charged for it. And yes businesses make money by charging more than most products are actually worth.

I want the product, I'm happy to pay for it. The world keeps spinning...

Edit: If you try to get everything for free then you're the one being roped in. Yes they use freebies etc. to make things more enticing, but most people realise there will be costs involved too.

Edited by Timonthy

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I remmeber back in the early 2000's there was a rumour going round that you had to pay £5 a month to use Hotmail, also another one was for youtube not too long ago.

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I remmeber back in the early 2000's there was a rumour going round that you had to pay £5 a month to use Hotmail, also another one was for youtube not too long ago.

To be sure these companies would do this sort of thing, sometimes to their own detriment. The only reason we have to pay for much of the software we use is that free versions haven't yet taken hold. Microsoft in particular seems to think that being free is something of an insult to them.

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You are talking about the 'internet' as though it is some sort of conspiracy, where all the creators and developers are in on a plan to squeeze money from the masses. Actually, no offence, but from your posts, it's clear that you have no actual grasp on what the internet (or the Web) is.

Don’t be ridiculous, they are not that sophisticated. The internet reflects the minds of its creators and developers, which makes their minds, unimpressive to say the least. Their ill intentions are writ plain on their dirty faces and anyone who can’t see that had do better not to admit it, for it is tantamount to admitting to one’s own somewhat severe limitations.

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We are all hooked on the internet; even those who don't use it. Modern commerce and banking and all sorts of things now depend on it. Can you imagine doing business without email? So he has his point. The trouble is that there is no scheme here to hook us and then reel us in. The opposite in fact. The more we use it the cheaper it gets, if for no reason other than economies of scale.

Your naivety about business and the tactics it uses would beggar belief, except that business only gets away with all its tricks because people are so naïve. I wonder what age you are? At the risk of repeating myself, there was a time when people knew that the business of business was to lie and cheat and steal from folks every day. But of course, business has spent the last half-century doing a whitewash job on itself and anyone who is doing a whitewash job on themselves has a dirty face!

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It may be that he is using the word "free" to mean free of regulation and censorship rather than free of charge. Compared to the broadcast and published media in a lot of countries, the internet is remarkably free that way, and has become just about the only way a lot of people get news they feel is not state manipulated.

Give me a break: the internet is a godsend to business and government --- it would not be so pervasive if it was not. And if it’s a godsend to government and business, you can bet your bottom dollar, no more, you can KNOW, that it is the reverse of a godsend to ordinary people. I think the key word in your last sentence is “feel”; yes, the powers that be will ensure that you “feel” that the news is not state manipulated, but the more you “feel” that it is not state manipulated, the more it is.

Is there any body on this forum who wasn’t born yesterday?!!

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Since we're already paying, are you saying they're going to start charging us more (perhaps a service fee for accessing an email account)? Won't happen. The public outrage of paying to access after we're already paying to access will destroy any goodwill the company has.

Yes. It has already happened with telephone charges as per the example in the original post.

As to public outrage, it is long since the public has been outraged by anything other than that which business and government want them to be outraged by.

(Congratu;ations, by the way. You have actually read beyond the first sentence!)

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Or carry on wasting your life away thinking you're doing something useful by stating the obvious; because you simply cannot think on a higher level.

I think you are the first person on this thread to accuse pantodragon of stating the obvious; the rest of the commentors have been accusing pantodragon of talking nonsense. It seems therefore that the other members of this forum are as little aware of "the obvious" as pantodragon, and therefore your comment is shooting them down as much as it is shooting down pantodragon. I hope the other responders to the OP are not your friends!

PS You may have a little trouble with the logic here; don't despair, just think about it a little, it'll come to you in time.

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I want the product, I'm happy to pay for it.

You think you want the product. You think you are happy to pay for it. Basically you have succumbed to the advertising, and are unaware of just how excessive the charges really are.

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You think you want the product. You think you are happy to pay for it. Basically you have succumbed to the advertising, and are unaware of just how excessive the charges really are.

proof please, it's all good saying things but you need proof and also you speak where I can understand

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Yes. It has already happened with telephone charges as per the example in the original post.

As to public outrage, it is long since the public has been outraged by anything other than that which business and government want them to be outraged by.

(Congratu;ations, by the way. You have actually read beyond the first sentence!)

Well if my email provider starts charging me a fee to access my email, I'm going to change providers. If all email providers start charging a fee to access email thus denying me choice, I'll put my house up as collateral with the bank, take out a loan, and pay whatever I need to start my own email service provider that's free. I know 95% of people will take it, and along with the people will come the sponsors. I'll make my money back and be on the way to becoming a millionaire (as long as no one else has the same idea, which I'm sure there will be - there will ALWAYS be free email).
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I think you are the first person on this thread to accuse pantodragon of stating the obvious; the rest of the commentors have been accusing pantodragon of talking nonsense. It seems therefore that the other members of this forum are as little aware of "the obvious" as pantodragon, and therefore your comment is shooting them down as much as it is shooting down pantodragon. I hope the other responders to the OP are not your friends!

PS You may have a little trouble with the logic here; don't despair, just think about it a little, it'll come to you in time.

Apparantly you don't even understand what most have said in this thread.

when ppl start sentences with "of course you have to pay " and stuff like that .. that means they are saying you're making obvious statements. Do you understand or are these words to difficult for you?

And very lame btw, that THIS is your reply. Only proves to me you have no ammo , wit-wise.

Oh, and you talk about yourself in the third person...that's just the cherry on the pathetic cake. Seriously, you have a lot of issues to work on.

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proof please, it's all good saying things but you need proof and also you speak where I can understand

I can't provide you with proof. It's up to you to look after yourself. All I can do is raise awareness. How do you provide proof of brainwashing to those who have been brainwashed?

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Well if my email provider starts charging me a fee to access my email, I'm going to change providers. If all email providers start charging a fee to access email thus denying me choice, I'll put my house up as collateral with the bank, take out a loan, and pay whatever I need to start my own email service provider that's free. I know 95% of people will take it, and along with the people will come the sponsors. I'll make my money back and be on the way to becoming a millionaire (as long as no one else has the same idea, which I'm sure there will be - there will ALWAYS be free email).

If you think that the big players would let a small interloper come in and steal their customers from under their noses, you've got another think coming. There are endless ways in which big players can undermine and destroy any competitor who dares to show their head out of the water. All the big companies have policies designed to protect themselves from any such competition and specifically to get them while they are at their most vulnerable.

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I can't provide you with proof. It's up to you to look after yourself. All I can do is raise awareness. How do you provide proof of brainwashing to those who have been brainwashed?

you are trolling arnt you?

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If you think that the big players would let a small interloper come in and steal their customers from under their noses, you've got another think coming. There are endless ways in which big players can undermine and destroy any competitor who dares to show their head out of the water. All the big companies have policies designed to protect themselves from any such competition and specifically to get them while they are at their most vulnerable.

If I buy domain space on the internet, it's my choice what I do with it. Saru, for example, chose to put a fantastic website titled "unexplained-mysteries.com" up with his space. If he wanted, he could have chosen to create an email provider instead. Of course, with a saturation of companies already dedicated to that (yahoo, hotmail, google, being three of the biggest), Saru's hypothetical email company would likely get no revenue and thus bust. However, if all email companies started charging fees, suddenly there's a market for free email. In comes a free email company, everyone joins, and sponsors flock to where the market is.

And that's not even taking into consideration the email services provided by the company you work for (for example, my email is registered with the Department of education, thus has a det.nsw.edu.au domain). All work-related email comes through that account. They wouldn't dare charge for those, because no one would use them and we'd be back 20 years to the time when school announcements were made using snail-mail.

Sorry, I reject your hypothesis as nothing more than a conspiracy (and not a very good one, either).

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we paid for internet either fibre optic or broadband.

As for how things like this forum are free, well...they get money from advertisers.

think about television, there many many free channels as well.

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you are trolling arnt you?

No.

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Sorry, I reject your hypothesis as nothing more than a conspiracy (and not a very good one, either).

No, it's more than hypothesis, it's actually personal experience of the business world.

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Posted (edited)

we paid for internet either fibre optic or broadband.

As for how things like this forum are free, well...they get money from advertisers.

think about television, there many many free channels as well.

I'm not quite sure if you agree or disagree, because although you point out that the likes of this forum is "free", because they get money from advertisers, you do not go on to make the point that it is us who pay for the advertising, (advertising costs are part of the price you pay for every product, so every timr you buy something, you go some way to supporting the advertising industry and all the things that it supports such as TV) so if you go round the whole loop, it is, in fact, we who are paying for this forum.

This is the trickiness of knowing what is going on in our world: these huge loops that transfer money from one place to another, and then to another and another and another, apparently totally unrelated place, make it possible for business to dupe people into thinking they are getting things for free etc.

Edited by pantodragon

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No, it's more than hypothesis, it's actually personal experience of the business world.

It's a Conspiracy Theory, plain and simple. Truthfully, it belongs in the Conspiracies section of the board more than here, but for the sake of continuity I'll leave it where it is for now.

Of course, no one who believes in a Conspiracy Theory actually thinks of it as a Conspiracy Theory. They think of it as the truth, and anyone who disagrees has bought into the lies and the dogma of the status quo. So I don't expect you to think of this as a Conspiracy. But nevertheless, it is.

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Posted (edited)

It's a Conspiracy Theory, plain and simple. Truthfully, it belongs in the Conspiracies section of the board more than here, but for the sake of continuity I'll leave it where it is for now.

Of course, no one who believes in a Conspiracy Theory actually thinks of it as a Conspiracy Theory. They think of it as the truth, and anyone who disagrees has bought into the lies and the dogma of the status quo. So I don't expect you to think of this as a Conspiracy. But nevertheless, it is.

I don't expect you to understand, but nevertheless, it isn't. However, let me attempt a simple explanation. Businessmen are all one kind of animal. When you see a herd of deer all running off in the one direction, or a flock of birds wheeling and maneouvering as one, you do not call it a conspiracy. They're all behaving the same because they are all the same kind of animal. If you continue to call this a conspiracy, then that is because of your failure to see the SIGNIFICANT differences between things which are distinct. This is a sickness of our society. On another thread I've have just been trying to persuade commenters that there is a distinction between teachers and parents. Someone needs to explain to government that a business and an educational institution are significantly different. I could go ojn and list motre and more instances of where people are loosing the ability to distinguish between things which are significantly different.

Edited by pantodragon

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If you are a smart guy interested in having a beautiful wife, large home, plenty of money, respect in the community, but aren't much interested in solving the world's problems, and are deciding what profession to go into, what do you become? Why of course, you go to law school.

There are perhaps a few idealistic lawyers, but they are in it for the money mainly. This doesn't nearly as much apply to other professions.

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I don't think pantodragon is a very happy person.

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