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SpiritWriter

Why is the bible not to be questioned?

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Posted (edited)

I often hear from Christians that if something is not Bible based it cannot be trusted and that if we feel we hear God speaking but it can't be backed up by the bible then it must not be God. I want to know why people believe this is true and at what point will we be able to recognize God more genuinely without the guilt of having to reference back to a source outside of ourselves. Looking for genuine Christian opinions on this.

Edited by SpiritWriter
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Posted (edited)

I want to know why people believe this is true

Fear or faith or both.

Edited by OverSword

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If i hear anyone speaking to me and no one else is around i may seek medical attention lol.Sorry spirit had to bring at least 1 laugh to what i know will wind up being a serious conversation.That said im out

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We all hear voices from time to time. It's known as talking to oneself. When it becomes problematic is when we no longer realize that it is oneself talking and think it's something else. This does happen in various situations beyond schizophrenia. Various drugs can do it, even caffeine and alcohol, as well as fasting. It has happened to me meditating (time to take a break).

The funny thing about it is that when we talk to ourselves normally, we don't "hear" actual voice -- we know it isn't and so our brain doesn't assign voice to it. But when that disconnect has taken place, the brain assumes sound must be coming in and attaches voice to it, so it seems to be coming from outside.

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Posted (edited)

If i hear anyone speaking to me and no one else is around i may seek medical attention lol.Sorry spirit had to bring at least 1 laugh to what i know will wind up being a serious conversation.That said im out

Crimson I know you say your out but I'm quoting you any way, using your statement as a springboard you don't have to answer unless you feel led to.. Hi! Btw ;)

God can and does speak audibly in some cases but I think that kind of communication is rare and should be analyzed, (as should all our thoughts/emotions/actions especially if we have subscribed to taking the spiritual route). I think we do have to judge what we are hearing and learn to trust the voice based on something and in that regard I can understand using the bible simply because you know something must be used.. but after a while I think we can begin to use our own spirits and minds. For the most part God does not use an audible voice but rather intuition.. this is my experience at least. It's the voice inside of us that all of us hear if we choose to listen to it and as we do so it becomes more spiritual and clear... to me this leads to great revelation but the process can be hindered if there is the constraint of outside interferance, this is how I see it but this frightens many, which is the reason for the post. I want to know why people are convinced the bible is more of the word of god than we as individuals are capable of hearing. If the saints of old were capable of creating holy inspired text why can't we tap into that same power?

Edited by SpiritWriter
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My friend it all boils down to your very own point of view, how you yourself and well...you...see the world. Whether you believe in :innocent: or you are an :alien: person, hell even if you believe in :santa:. It all comes down to what you think, Christians may believe that nothing can be trusted if it's not in the bible, well I can say right now there are others who believe the bible to be completely fictitious. I'm not saying it is, I myself would probably be agnostic. I believe that there may be a higher plane of existence. The universe is such a complex place and sentient, intelligent life is so complicated that I believe (hope) it won't just go poof. I mean I believe in paranormal stuff, I have had experiences with ghosts before and had deja-vu where I swear black and blue I have relived the moment. But in saying I believe in ghosts, I also believe in aliens and I don't believe in 'god' as Christians describe him.

In my experience I've met a few religious zealots, some saying how if I don't bow to god I will go to hell, or my niece, who at the time was like seven, was going to hell because she was proud in her paintings. And I have met others who are wonderful and kind people.

Ok I realise this is getting long, so to shorten it I shall simply finish with.

Believe in what you wanna believe love and let others believe in what they want to. If everyone could accept that, I believe the world would be a happier place :tu:

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Posted (edited)

God can and does speak audibly in some cases but I think that kind of communication is rare and should be analyzed,

It has been analyzed many a time, thats why they invented the straight jacket.

Edited by freetoroam

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Believe in what you wanna believe love and let others believe in what they want to. If everyone could accept that, I believe the world would be a happier place :tu:

I do and I am quite happy. The problem is that I am a christian that finds it hard to communicate with other christians about certain matters because of this very matter. I understand the believe your own thing part, but I would like to know and challenge the root of this widely practised notion of putting final authority in the bible. I never understood it, but have sat in churches that preach it and am in other environments that I cannot express what god is doing in my life because I will be attacked by my own peers for my beliefs. I think communication helps us all grow. So its not about "letting" others believe what the believe, its about understanding why...

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I am a Bible-believing Christian. I have NEVER heard God (or Jesus) speaking to me directly. I've heard stories (sorry, I don't have links, I didn't hear it on the net) about people who have supposedly heard God's word and then promptly sold everything they owned to go on a Missionary expedition, only to return two weeks later saying that they "misinterpreted" the signs. That's not to say that people who claim they have heard God are automatically wrong, it's just saying that they aren't automatically right.

As a general rule, if someone claims to have a divine revelation from God then two options present themselves: 1- something totally disagrees with scripture, I don't accept it as the word of God, and 2- if it does not contradict scripture then I put it to a curiosity - maybe it's true, maybe it's not.

What I DON'T accept is that some modern person suddenly comes up with a new teaching not found in the original scripture, but they feel it is right and so they try and promote it as such despite the textual evidence to the contrary.

Sorry if that's pretty vague. Without specific examples I can't really give a better response than the one I have just given :yes:

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It has been many analyzed many a time, thats why they invented the straight jacket.

You honestly think that if a person hears an audible voice they should be put in a straight jacket and not be able to move? First of all this is just about the rudest statement I've heard on UM so far. I hope one day you will come to a better understanding about what your saying. Second of all my question is directed at christians and why they feel the bible is final authority. So your statement is off topic and I hope it doesn't lead the conversation in this way.

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I dare say, non-Christian that I am, if I heard a clear voice telling me to convert, no doubt after a lot of analysis, I would start looking for a way to convert. I have enough confidence in my sanity. The thing is, it hasn't happened.

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I do and I am quite happy. The problem is that I am a christian that finds it hard to communicate with other christians about certain matters because of this very matter. I understand the believe your own thing part, but I would like to know and challenge the root of this widely practised notion of putting final authority in the bible. I never understood it, but have sat in churches that preach it and am in other environments that I cannot express what god is doing in my life because I will be attacked by my own peers for my beliefs. I think communication helps us all grow. So its not about "letting" others believe what the believe, its about understanding why...

Well I wish there were others like you in the world, and yes communication is essential. But alas it takes two to tango. There will always be those you twist a religion, any religion to fit their own purposes. You may need to find another way to challenge it. Write a paper about it, or bring it to the attention of your church leaders. I too would like to find out how exactly was the bible conceived. And if god happens to be real, I have...faith if you will that he would not condemn people to eternal damnation for not bowing down to him or committing the seven sins. Because I will be the first to admit I have felt envy, I have been a glutton before, I have been proud in my work and my family, I have been greedy, people have seen my wrath and I have felt lust.

It's human nature, people say he created us in his image and thus would he not be subjected to the same feelings and emotions as us.

There is a lot that can be questioned sure, but not always in a public forum. People are afraid of change, of the unknown Especially when it comes to religion. Maybe look for the questions you seek yourself, a little history searching. Talk to someone you know and trust won't attack your opinions. I hope you find what you're looking for.

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Be gentle: "straight-jacket" is a metaphor; I don't think he meant it literally.

The reason Christians resort to the Bible to test the message of any voice (or other prophet for that matter) is that this is what they've been taught.

In fact, that is not what Jesus said to do. He said to test the tree by the fruit it bears. If it bears good fruit, then it is of God, but if it bears rotten fruit, then it is not. He does not mention any test by comparing with scripture.

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Crimson I know you say your out but I'm quoting you any way, using your statement as a springboard you don't have to answer unless you feel led to.. Hi! Btw ;)

God can and does speak audibly in some cases but I think that kind of communication is rare and should be analyzed, (as should all our thoughts/emotions/actions especially if we have subscribed to taking the spiritual route). I think we do have to judge what we are hearing and learn to trust the voice based on something and in that regard I can understand using the bible simply because you know something must be used.. but after a while I think we can begin to use our own spirits and minds. For the most part God does not use an audible voice but rather intuition.. this is my experience at least. It's the voice inside of us that all of us hear if we choose to listen to it and as we do so it becomes more spiritual and clear... to me this leads to great revelation but the process can be hindered if there is the constraint of outside interferance, this is how I see it but this frightens many, which is the reason for the post. I want to know why people are convinced the bible is more of the word of god than we as individuals are capable of hearing. If the saints of old were capable of creating holy inspired text why can't we tap into that same power?

Hello spirit,since you quoted me i will respond back lol.I have had what some call a gut feeling many times in my life that has actually kept me out of trouble and even saved my life before.I have never really put any thought into it as some divine spirit is talking to me,i just think of it as some kind of instinct or precognition.Being a christian yourself others should not use a book that was written by a bunch of mortal men,then translated by other men to serve a need of controlling the masses.I myself am not the athiest type i have my beliefs but none have to do with a god stolen from others beliefs.Anyone who uses that book to somehow try to make their point better or more important have defeated their own purpose.Just my opinion.

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Posted (edited)

You honestly think that if a person hears an audible voice they should be put in a straight jacket and not be able to move? First of all this is just about the rudest statement I've heard on UM so far. I hope one day you will come to a better understanding about what your saying. Second of all my question is directed at christians and why they feel the bible is final authority. So your statement is off topic and I hope it doesn't lead the conversation in this way.

hmm, no likey for that comment from you then? (joke)

There have been many who have said they heard the voice of god, the majority good people, but some not so.

I do recall The yorkshire ripper saying he heard voices too and others like him....do you think they should not be in straight jackets!!

My point was, its not only good people who try to use the voices to their advantage! there are many more but this kind of thing i was pointing out.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/02/12/Dad-God-told-me-to-kill-my-son/UPI-71281234475937/

http://www.rickross.com/reference/brideof_christ/brideof_christ11.html

I will stay away from the negatives now, as its only the positives you want to hear, thats fine.

Edited by freetoroam
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Be gentle: "straight-jacket" is a metaphor; I don't think he meant it literally.

The reason Christians resort to the Bible to test the message of any voice (or other prophet for that matter) is that this is what they've been taught.

In fact, that is not what Jesus said to do. He said to test the tree by the fruit it bears. If it bears good fruit, then it is of God, but if it bears rotten fruit, then it is not. He does not mention any test by comparing with scripture.

I.M.O. the bible(s) is/are a tree(s) that does not bear good fruit. So....

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Spirit check your number of likes lol

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I think the basic problem is that certain more traditional followers of Christianity seem to believe that all the Bible has equal weight, and anything that may have been said by any of the writers of any of the books, even if they have not very much to do with the basic narrative and message of the Bible, must be treated as, well, Holy Writ. They don't seem to appreciate how it was put together or what a long timescale the various books that go into making it up cover, and that many of these books (the OT most obviously, but also things like the Letters of Paul) were never intended to be put together in a manual for what followers of Christianity should believe. Really, there's an awful lot in it that's pretty much superfluous to the basic thrust of it (God's relationship with Humanity, the background to the yearning for a Messiah, and of course what should be the most overwhelmingly important part for Christians, the story and teachings of Jesus), and a very large amount of the dogmas that are so doggedly held are really nothing at all to do with the teachings of Jesus. I think that the mistake people made was taking phrases like "the Word of God" literally, and taking it as meaning that every single thing, even the interminable laws in Leviticus and so on, were dictated by God personally.

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Posted (edited)

I often hear from Christians that if something is not Bible based it cannot be trusted and that if we feel we hear God speaking but it can't be backed up by the bible then it must not be God. I want to know why people believe this is true and at what point will we be able to recognize God more genuinely without the guilt of having to reference back to a source outside of ourselves. Looking for genuine Christian opinions on this.

I think the bible has become a massive problem because christians feel the need to 'reference' the book all the time. The bible is several hundred years old and people should really be able to not only think for themselves but use sources other than the bible. The bible certainly should be questioned if we find things that contradict it and they shouldn't be ignored because 'the bible says so'.

If I heard 'god' you know what I'd do? Get myself checked by a professional, because it could be a symptom of a very serious mental health problem. Just because you hear a voice that claims to be god and tells you to do something doesn't mean it is. As such I don't really trust anyone that says they 'heard god speak to them' or 'god breathed' texts because whats not to say they didn't have what would amount to a serious mental health problem?

I think there's an even bigger question though. Why should we, as a species, submit our will to what is (essentially) a supernatural foreign power? I really don't understand the appeal or logic of it at all

Edited by shadowhive

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Martin Luther needed a counter to the Papal claim of the Succession of Peter as the authority for church teaching, and he latched onto Scripture for the purpose.

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I think the bible has become a massive problem because christians feel the need to 'reference' the book all the time. The bible is several hundred years old and people should really be able to not only think for themselves but use sources other than the bible. The bible certainly should be questioned if we find things that contradict it and they shouldn't be ignored because 'the bible says so'.

yes; I tend to use it as a rule of thumb that if anyone says "because it's in the Bible" and folds their arms as if that's the end to the matter in response to any discussion about any aspect of Biblical matters, then there's really no point trying to discuss anything with them, as they really won't be open to any new ways of considering things. Or at the very least, if the Bible really is to be the ultimate authority, then the actual things that Jesus said and did should surely have overwhelming priority.

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Posted (edited)

I think the bible has become a massive problem because christians feel the need to 'reference' the book all the time. The bible is several hundred years old and people should really be able to not only think for themselves but use sources other than the bible. The bible certainly should be questioned if we find things that contradict it and they shouldn't be ignored because 'the bible says so'.

If I heard 'god' you know what I'd do? Get myself checked by a professional, because it could be a symptom of a very serious mental health problem. Just because you hear a voice that claims to be god and tells you to do something doesn't mean it is. As such I don't really trust anyone that says they 'heard god speak to them' or 'god breathed' texts because whats not to say they didn't have what would amount to a serious mental health problem?

I think there's an even bigger question though. Why should we, as a species, submit our will to what is (essentially) a supernatural foreign power? I really don't understand the appeal or logic of it at all

Thats the thing, its not a foreign power but an integral one. And you can judge what is god speaking or god breathed based on what is being said using your own judgement.. if it leads to love, peace, balance, spiritual growth and understanding it is a cure to mind disease, if it leads to rage, violence, discontentment or imbalance (temporary imbalance is ok for transitional periods but shouldn't be a permanant condition) than it is an increase in mind disease. If god isn't serving as a healer it is of no purpose and if you are being healed and transformed than this in essence is the doctor, primary health care providers can in no way compare to this...

Edited by SpiritWriter

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Scripture -- all scripture, not just the Bible -- should be taken as inspired, useful for teaching in righteousness. To me that means that we treat passages that have over the course of history come to be viewed as scripture with great respect, listening seriously to what they tell us. It does not mean we worship them.

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Posted (edited)

Thats the thing, its not a foreign power but an integral one. And you can judge what is god speaking or god breathed based on what is being said using your own judgement.. if it leads to love, peace, balance, spiritual growth and understanding it is a cure to mind disease, if it leads to rage, violence, discontentment or imbalance (temporary imbalance is ok for transitional periods but shouldn't be a permanant condition) than it is an increase in mind disease. If god isn't serving as a healer it is of no purpose and if you are being healed and transformed than this in essence is the doctor, primary health care providers can in no way compare to this...

All that is, to me, is a change of wording to make it seem nicer and more reasonable.

The trouble with that is that much of the bible has led to rage violence, discontentment and imbalance... but the christians still want to keep it as if it's the best thing ever despite that. Why?

The whole thing makes absoutely no sense. Let's say the universe was made by a creator god. Well the universe is, first and foremost, huge. Secondly it is old. We are a tiny race on a tiny planet orbiting one star among billions in a galaxy among billions. So we are (in terms of creation) extremely small and insigificant. The universe is also much older than our ancestors. So why, why, does the creator of entire universe care about us at all?

I understand it in ancient civilisations, ones that didn't know all of that, but I dont understand why god would care about us (as a species or individually). The idea that someting that created the universe cares one jot about us just sounds insane.

Edited by shadowhive

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I think there's an even bigger question though. Why should we, as a species, submit our will to what is (essentially) a supernatural foreign power? I really don't understand the appeal or logic of it at all

I don't think (the way I personally see it) God, or whatever one wants to call it, is a "foreign power". I think it could be argued that the way Jesus saw it was that the entire universe - "creation", if you wanted to call it that, although that doesn't necessarily mean that you have to believe in "creation" literally - is part of God, and God is in everything. Really, I think you could say that it wasn't far off a panentheistic view - God is everywhere, but is also an intelligence over and above the material world. Not foreign, because everything is a part of this intelligence. I think the old "God as a being separate from Creation, who, like Santa, assesses whether everyone has been Bad or Good, and has Control over everything" is just another of those old fashioned literalistic ways of looking at the Bible.

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