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SpiritWriter

Why is the bible not to be questioned?

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If one were to take the corpus of a great and at least fairly prolific writer -- say Shakespeare or Dickens -- one could produce passages adequate to build a religion, an ethical system, a cosmology, a guide to happy and productive living, what have you. Why not?

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If one were to take the corpus of a great and at least fairly prolific writer -- say Shakespeare or Dickens -- one could produce passages adequate to build a religion, an ethical system, a cosmology, a guide to happy and productive living, what have you. Why not?

Hello Frank Merton,

For one thing, I value the life hereafter above all, and the story of Jesus Christ (the Holy Trinity) rings true to my core being. Besides, it's unfair to compare the Bible with the collective works of Shakespeare and Dickens. The Bible is God's character development on a grand, epic scale, and it's ongoing. That's one way to look at it.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, except a corn of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it stays alone: but if it die, it brings forth much fruit. He that loves his life shall lose it; and he that hates his life in this world shall keep it to life eternal." (John 12:24-25)

Peace.

Edited by braveone2u

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"Truly, truly, I say to you, except a corn of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it stays alone: but if it die, it brings forth much fruit. He that loves his life shall lose it; and he that hates his life in this world shall keep it to life eternal." (John 12:24-25)

Peace.

You think that is good?!?

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Hi HavocWing,

Before I answer, what does it tell you?

Peace.

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Here's something I've pondered God helps liberate the Israelites from the Egyptians. He sends them to the promise land.

But then he tells them to take the city of Jericho and killing its inhabitants. It seems that the Israelites are no better then

there former captors.

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Hi HavocWing,

Before I answer, what does it tell you?

Peace.

He does not want anyone to be happy.

It's clearly malicious.

Edited by HavocWing

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He does not want anyone to be happy.

It's clearly malicious.

I respect your POV, HavocWing, but I see it the other way around. Some people are unhappy, not because of the Lord's doing, but because of free will. On the other hand, we have a choice to redirect that free will and ask Jesus Christ to be our Lord and Saviour. Happiness is a profound concept, and to absolutely know perfection and experience the "unconditional love" presence of God are ways to really know happiness. My faith in Jesus Christ gives me hope (deep down in my heart) that "real" happiness is, indeed, possible. Our Lord made that promise.

"That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that you also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full." (1 John 1:3-4)

"The next day John saw Jesus coming unto him, and said, Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world." (John 1:29)

"Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree:" (Galatians 3:13)

"Come unto me, all you that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and you shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." (Matthew 11:28-30)

Peace to you, HavocWing.

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I don't want to seem sarcastic, but I have to say that what enters my head reading that is that you can find what you want to find.

indeed, that's the beauty of it. It has a quotation for every occasion, and often those quotations can be taken to mean exactly opposite things by two people with opposing viewpoints. I think perhaps it ought to be treated in the same way as other mystical texts and recognise that it can be used to get whatever you want out of it, rather than treated as The Truth, as dictated by God.

If one were to take the corpus of a great and at least fairly prolific writer -- say Shakespeare or Dickens -- one could produce passages adequate to build a religion, an ethical system, a cosmology, a guide to happy and productive living, what have you. Why not?

As Shakespeare himself said, "the Devil can cite Scripture for his purpose". (The Merchant of Venice).

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Here's something I've pondered God helps liberate the Israelites from the Egyptians. He sends them to the promise land.

But then he tells them to take the city of Jericho and killing its inhabitants. It seems that the Israelites are no better then

there former captors.

That's exactly what it's about, (the OT at any rate); it's entirely about the God (or the G_d) of the Israelites, it's exactly the same as Zeus to the Greeks. It was only meant to be for those people, not as a universal instruction book for mankind.

And look how GOD treated the Egyptians because their Pharoah kept going back on his promises- all those rains of blood, and frogs, and locusts - in fact, didn't GOD deliberately make Pharoah change his mind, just so that he could test the Israelites to make sure that they were really sincere? :unsure2:

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But the beautiful feet of the preacher who beings this Good News is not the one who births you and re-creates you into sheep. Good News is just that - news, information.

Who are you identifying as "the preacher who brings this Good News" and "the one who births you and re-creates you"?

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Here's something I've pondered God helps liberate the Israelites from the Egyptians. He sends them to the promise land.

But then he tells them to take the city of Jericho and killing its inhabitants. It seems that the Israelites are no better then

there former captors.

Worse, way, way worse.

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I see in the bible when it talks about the characters, there is a lot of drama to the story of their lives.

Almost like a Hollywood Movie. As I've said before, I do believe the characters and events did happen

to a degree, but the stories of the characters was embellished.

To give an example: If you've ever seen the movie" Hachi: A Dog's Tale" with Richard Gere, It tells about

a dog that keeps going to a train station for years and awaits the return of his master who has died,

The movie was made in modern times in america but the actual story took place in Japan before WWII.

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Sometimes Hollywood stories have a kernel in something that really happened, sometimes they don't. The same applies to the Bible.

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i am glad you understand that spiritual education does not open the understanding of the Bible. That that comes with an intentional act from God. You theme is: Why not question the Bible? But you comments seemed to me to be: why use the Bible if you have studied it for 10 years, that the Spirit of God can be so entrenched in your being that you don't have to rely on the Bible. (Have I got that right?)

God does not contradict Himself. Jesus is the Word made manifest. If where, you say, the Spirit of God is directing you and it is not in agreement with the Word then you are being mislead.

The Bible is not only God's dictation preserved by chosen Jewish subscribers. God promises that it is HE who will keep it. So, look at the many translations. Some of which contradict each other. Learn the history and you will notice which versions have God's endorsements. A scarlet trail of blood illuminates the true path accompanied by world wide revivals, which point to the KJV. No one has or would died for the Living (lying) Bible, the New American Standard, the New International Version, the Catholic version etc. But much blood has been shed for the KJV. Only God given strength would make man able to do that.

God bless

Edited by Copen

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I take it the KJV, then, is God's translation because He likes to see a lot of blood.

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I think a god that is 'loving' would not destroy a city with every man, woman and child inside it. Yes that is upsetting to me. But that's because I, like any rational person, would find the deaths of a large amount of people to be a tragedy. It's something terrible, to be abhorred. A loving entity does not go on a killing spree. Somehow, though, a believer excuses it and finds ways around it. Like you just did.

We live in a human society, not a christian one. Holding christian doctrines so highly is dangerous because it's very easy to slip into a christian dictatorshiop and the next thing you know all non-believers are persecuted or killed because they are not 'righteous' enough. Or anyone that does anything against the bible gets persecuted.

Religion should be a completely personal choice. As such it has no place controlling any society, no matter how 'righteous' the reasoning.

But there is no indication of anything like this in the west. If anything, the stance of the public against Christianity is growing, not the opposite - so there is no need to worry over it. I believe there WILL be a dictatorship over all the world in the future and it will first be by man - THEN it will be by God Himself. Once you have a chance to compare the two I think you will be happy of the one God provides.

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Who are you identifying as "the preacher who brings this Good News" and "the one who births you and re-creates you"?

The false teaching of the "free will doctrine" church says the Good News must come first. Then the spiritual birth follows based upon if the person who heard the Good News accepts, believes, repents, confesses, and is baptized. Upon accepting, then the person experiences the "born again", which makes man's will stronger than God's and ultimately makes man a mini-savior, saving himself by performing the above listed works. (Believing is a thought process. Ask anyone who is mentally evaluating a situation for a decision and they will use some form of the word "worked." "I worked on the problem all night and couldn't sleep." A thinking process is a work unless it pertains to the "born again."

Eternal salvation is "not of works lest anyone boast." Haven't you ever heard Christians boast how smart they were, or how lucky they were that they worked that through. They don't realize they are boasting and taking some of the glory away from what Jesus did; but they are and it it contrary to the way the scriptures say it happens.

Eternal salvation is 100% by the shed blood of the spotless Lamb. Add any work or merit on man's part and His blood is diluted.

A person is birthed first by God's election and predestination in a specific call by your name. Just as a physical birth is completely in the hands of others and you had nothing to do with when, where, or how - - - - - - your spiritual birth is completely in the hands of God.

The Holy Spirit blows on whom HE WILLETH. You can hear the sound of it and see the effects of it around you; but you cannot decide to call the wind up and it obey. Of such is the born again. AFTER THE WIND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT HAS BLOWN ON YOU AND you have been given spiritual life you can then "see" or understand the Kingdom of God on earth and decide whether or not to enter into the government of that kingdom. If that new child decides not to enter into the Kingdom of God on earth, he misses out on many blessings while living on earth. He needs the Good News to tell him/her about the blessings Jesus gives His obedient children.

The preacher with Good News feeds the lambs and sheep. He doesn't turn them into lambs and sheep. "It is the work of God that you believe." I Cor. 2:14 says the natural man cannot receive nor even know in order to receive the spiritual things of God. They are foolishness to him. God has to first change the man into a spiritual man, then he can know and receive spiritual things of God.

Amen

God bless us all is my prayer.

Edited by Copen
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I take it the KJV, then, is God's translation because He likes to see a lot of blood.

Yep - blood cleanses.

God bless

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Can you be a christian and still make your own way, leaving bible alone? Is bible the only way?

As far as I understand, bible is not god, but something that describes god. As such, it is like a letter, a word, a tool of communication (learning). Bible is to learn of god.

If so, why wouldn't it be possible to learn of god from the other ways too? The way of learning that requires you to just accept what you read without consent is a realistic sort of way to learn, whereas the way of learning in which you reach beyond what's within your grasp, is a more intuitive "hunch" way of learning. I believe the latter should not be ignored when learning of god, even if it may be a more subjective way. And ultimately, all that we learn comes from somewhere other than directly from god itself in that certain miracle-making sense.

Why wouldn't other religious texts, like Koran or the Vedic scrolls or the indian epochs or Taoist books or whatnot, also serve christians? Apart from the reason that "I am the one and only god, thou shalt have no other gods."? What prevents you from studying them to gain insight to whatever link there is to god in this plane? Studying doesn't have to mean absorbing others' ideas and ideals, it can be "taking the ideas in with healthy questioning and putting them to context with your world-view", fitting them in to your view. I believe that if there is a god, that god can have everything put together like pieces of a puzzle.

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Can you be a christian and still make your own way, leaving bible alone? Is bible the only way?

As far as I understand, bible is not god, but something that describes god. As such, it is like a letter, a word, a tool of communication (learning). Bible is to learn of god.

If so, why wouldn't it be possible to learn of god from the other ways too? The way of learning that requires you to just accept what you read without consent is a realistic sort of way to learn, whereas the way of learning in which you reach beyond what's within your grasp, is a more intuitive "hunch" way of learning. I believe the latter should not be ignored when learning of god, even if it may be a more subjective way. And ultimately, all that we learn comes from somewhere other than directly from god itself in that certain miracle-making sense.

Why wouldn't other religious texts, like Koran or the Vedic scrolls or the indian epochs or Taoist books or whatnot, also serve christians? Apart from the reason that "I am the one and only god, thou shalt have no other gods."? What prevents you from studying them to gain insight to whatever link there is to god in this plane? Studying doesn't have to mean absorbing others' ideas and ideals, it can be "taking the ideas in with healthy questioning and putting them to context with your world-view", fitting them in to your view. I believe that if there is a god, that god can have everything put together like pieces of a puzzle.

The Bible is not a tool to learn about God. In the beginning was Word (capitalized - making it a proper name). Word was manifested in Jesus with God the Father in Heaven. The verbal word breathed from the mouth of God created things in six days. Buda can't do that by merely speaking it into existence. The Word dictated to chosen prophets over a 4,000 year period of time. (It is impossible for that many people to write over a 4,000 strand of time on one subject without contracting previous prophets or elevating themselves.) There are no contradictions in the Bible because God dictated it and He promised that He would keep it. Both, (non existing contradictions and preserving) are impossibilities left in the strength of humans. And the Bible shows man over and over not in a flattering light but in need of God.

The Word says in the Ten Commandments that He, God, is a jealous God. And to have no other God before Him. Therefore, you will not learn about the true God from the Koran, (which has not always existed like the Bible has), or from any other source. Even man's intuition can mislead oneself. If intuition was all you need, then God didn't need to leave His word with us at all.

Prayer to God to open the scriptures for your understanding will make all the difference.

God bless us all is my prayer.

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Prayer to God to open the scriptures for your understanding will make all the difference.

That why I'm asking, we're on the same page here at least. I just keep asking myself, why not fill the gap over which you take a leap of faith with something else than what's in the bible? If everything originates from god, isn't taking it from anywhere just as good? I can understand the "created from Word" thing, say "bam" and they go "bam". But to reach a more complete understanding of what's the process or bridge or something between that and this worldly realm, wouldn't it be just benefical to expand the horizon with both your own hunch and alternative points of view that have a good ring to them for you? As in maybe using them as ultimately sacrificiable stepstones in the way to a more complete understanding.

I just ask all this, because when you say god created all with Word, you basically take a big leap of faith in believing that. Not saying your belief is right or wrong, that's not the point, but the point is, can't you reach that belief or view in any other way? And... how do you know if you dont try?

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How many denominations are out there? God must be a real prankster.

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How many denominations are out there? God must be a real prankster.

No, it's just that humans are incredibly self-centered.
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Superstition. EVERYTHING should be questioned. How else are you to learn. Someone who says not to question is just wanting to control you.

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Posted (edited)

For the most part God does not use an audible voice but rather intuition.. this is my experience at least. It's the voice inside of us that all of us hear if we choose to listen to it and as we do so it becomes more spiritual and clear... to me this leads to great revelation but the process can be hindered if there is the constraint of outside interferance, this is how I see it but this frightens many, which is the reason for the post. I want to know why people are convinced the bible is more of the word of god than we as individuals are capable of hearing. If the saints of old were capable of creating holy inspired text why can't we tap into that same power?

Hi SpiritWriter,

"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water." John 7:38

In other metaphysical/spiritual teaching, the Navel Chakra is the space to make things happen. It is where the "mind" resides. It is also the center of balance. I question, however, the existence of the Kundalini, even though I was a Kundalini Yoga "teacher." I'm inclined to say that the body is a receptor of that outside "otherworldly" force that I used to call "Flow," and we, my fellow teachers and I, actually believed that it's the Holy Spirit, Itself. Real meditation teachers are conduits, nothing more, and actually, they have to get out of the way for this "power" to do its healing. Once a teacher starts to "own" the process, that's the moment when it gets corrupted and lessened.

It is interesting to me when I read the Bible because I see quite a bit of metaphysical undertones. Then again, Christianity deals with the spirit, in the now, not tomorrow or someday in some tragic future.

"Joshua told the people, 'Consecrate yourselves, for tomorrow the LORD will do amazing things among you.'" Joshua 3:5

"to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word" Ephesians 5:26

"Word." That "Flow" has a frequency, or hum. Gifted people are able to hear it.

Just sharing.

Peace.

Edited by braveone2u
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