ExpandMyMind Posted March 6, 2013 Author #26 Share Posted March 6, 2013 No, I mean that maybe now Venezuelans will get a chance to advance and create wealth for themselves instead of for a dictator: Source Really top notch source there. Even if he and his family are super rich, it still doesn't take away from the fact that he was elected 3 times, overthrew an actual dictator, and helped the poor and impoverished of his country more than any other leader of any other country that I know of. A leader who cared about the 99%. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamsSon Posted March 6, 2013 #27 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Really top notch source there. Even if he and his family are super rich, it still doesn't take away from the fact that he was elected 3 times, overthrew an actual dictator, and helped the poor and impoverished of his country more than any other leader of any other country that I know of. A leader who cared about the 99%. Interesting that. There are STILL countless incredibly poor people in Venezuela, in fact there are more poor people now than before he took over, but somehow he made $2 billion. If he REALLY had helped the poor, then he should have died a pauper while the poor of Venezuela got those $2 billion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiffSplitkins Posted March 6, 2013 #28 Share Posted March 6, 2013 years ago I read a post on some consiracy web-site that in the late 50's and early 60's the CIA was doing research in which they had developed a way to give assaination targets a very aggressive form of cancer. I googled the phrase cia aggressive cancer and this is one of the stories that came up. http://beforeitsnews...er-2445074.html If memory serves the cancer was developed with Castro in mind but he was always too wary of a target. You're not too far off there. http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2013/03/05/venezuela-expels-us-diplomat-vice-president-claims-hugo-chavez-was-poisoned/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetpumper Posted March 6, 2013 #29 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Somewhere Sean Penn is crying. Good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted March 6, 2013 #30 Share Posted March 6, 2013 No, I mean that maybe now Venezuelans will get a chance to advance and create wealth for themselves instead of for a dictator: Source But if you want to read how Venezuela was before Chavez may I suggest you read confessions of an economic hitman http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Economic-Hit-John-Perkins/dp/0452287081/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1362596643&sr=8-1&keywords=confession+of+an+economic+hitman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetpumper Posted March 6, 2013 #31 Share Posted March 6, 2013 The CIA killed him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamsSon Posted March 6, 2013 #32 Share Posted March 6, 2013 The CIA killed him. No, it was George Bush. Bush does everything, just ask Obummer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted March 6, 2013 #33 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Careful... Or George will get you too..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corp Posted March 6, 2013 #34 Share Posted March 6, 2013 The CIA killed him. With their freedom guided cancer rockets! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 6, 2013 #35 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Venezuela’s oligarchs froth at the mouth with their hatred of Chavez, but the truth is his government has barely touched them. The top rate of tax is just 34 per cent, and tax evasion is rampant. Why do they despise him? As Chavez’s vice-minister for Europe, Temir Porras, puts it to me, it’s because “the people who clean their houses are now politically more important than them”. Under Chavez, the poor have become a political power that cannot be ignored: no wonder even Capriles at least claimed he would leave the social programmes intact. Chavez’s critics in the West are entitled to passionately disagree with him. But it’s time they stopped pretending he is a dictator. Chavez has won fair and square. Despite formidable obstacles, he has proved it is possible to lead a popular, progressive government that breaks with neo-liberal dogma. Perhaps that is why he is so hated after al http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/hugo-chavez-proves-you-can-lead-a-progressive-popular-government-that-says-no-to-neoliberalism-8202738.html?fb_action_ids=457821607626711%2C457798147629057%2C10200909447966881&fb_action_types=news.reads&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map={%22457821607626711%22%3A443148219069978%2C%22457798147629057%22%3A353688371413083%2C%2210200909447966881%22%3A168223256661886}&action_type_map={%22457821607626711%22%3A%22news.reads%22%2C%22457798147629057%22%3A%22news.reads%22%2C%2210200909447966881%22%3A%22news.reads%22}&action_ref_map=[] Anyone who stands for principles different to Neo-Liberalism is portrayed as a tyrant. I personally don't buy it for a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamsSon Posted March 6, 2013 #36 Share Posted March 6, 2013 http://www.independe...action_ref_map=[] Anyone who stands for principles different to Neo-Liberalism is portrayed as a tyrant. I personally don't buy it for a second. Just a few questions: Under Chavez, how many poor Venezuelan's (after all, he and his supporters justified everything he did because "he was helping the poor") had the ability to travel abroad for cancer treatment? Were more of them able to? Did any of them? Why not? Apparently he had $2 billion, so there was more than enough money to send quite a few cancer-ridden poor Venezuelans to some of the best treatment facilities in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted March 6, 2013 #37 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Just a few questions: Under Chavez, how many poor Venezuelan's (after all, he and his supporters justified everything he did because "he was helping the poor") had the ability to travel abroad for cancer treatment? Were more of them able to? Did any of them? Why not? Apparently he had $2 billion, so there was more than enough money to send quite a few cancer-ridden poor Venezuelans to some of the best treatment facilities in the world. Dude. If you really believe that the poor of venezuela were worse off after Chavez than before Chavez then you need to do some research before flapping your gums. Don't get me wrong, when I first started hearing about Chavez and his attitude towards my beloved country I was ready to believe this guy is nothing but a piece of feces, but it really didn't take much research to discover that this guy was actually good for the majority of a people who's poor have historically been very downtrodden. He really was a champion of the people and believe me, I generally have a very low opinion of anyone who wants power and that goes double for marxists.You're just uninformed and ridiculous though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamsSon Posted March 6, 2013 #38 Share Posted March 6, 2013 (edited) Dude. If you really believe that the poor of venezuela were worse off after Chavez than before Chavez then you need to do some research before flapping your gums. Don't get me wrong, when I first started hearing about Chavez and his attitude towards my beloved country I was ready to believe this guy is nothing but a piece of feces, but it really didn't take much research to discover that this guy was actually good for the majority of a people who's poor have historically been very downtrodden. He really was a champion of the people and believe me, I generally have a very low opinion of anyone who wants power and that goes double for marxists. You're just uninformed and ridiculous though. I guess Venezuelan's are uninformed about their own country then because I have spoken to quite a few of them, from upper middle-class business owners who moved out of the country to a few guys who were most likely illegally in the US, and there was one thing they agreed on, unless you were one of Chave's buddies, life sucked for you. But I'm sure you know better somehow.I noticed you didn't even attempt to answer any of the questions. Is it so difficult to realize that a guy who robbed his countrymen of $2 billion was only a champion to himself? Edited March 6, 2013 by IamsSon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted March 6, 2013 #39 Share Posted March 6, 2013 (edited) I have a friend of a friend who says.........Oh c'mon. Do some research from independant sources. You have google, come up with a query read. Or better yet, tell me what you friends cousins brother says. Edited March 6, 2013 by OverSword 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpandMyMind Posted March 6, 2013 Author #40 Share Posted March 6, 2013 (edited) Just a few questions: Under Chavez, how many poor Venezuelan's (after all, he and his supporters justified everything he did because "he was helping the poor") had the ability to travel abroad for cancer treatment? Were more of them able to? Did any of them? Why not? Apparently he had $2 billion, so there was more than enough money to send quite a few cancer-ridden poor Venezuelans to some of the best treatment facilities in the world. I would like to know of any country that provides free healthcare (something Chavez ensured was provided for all Venezuelans almost immediately after he was elected, along with free education for all, and a lot of other beneficial things) to their citizens, that would fork out the money for surgeries abroad. I don't think the NHS or Canadians have a habit of doing so. Apparently he had $2b? According to who? Some isolated group who just happened to be based out of North Virginia? Hmm, what other U.S. organisations, who also happen to have hated Chavez, are based in North Virginia? Basically, what Oversword said. Read about the man from non biased sources and you'll understand that what he did for the poor of his country is unparalleled. And to rely on what a few people have said is really just idiotic. That's like me going into Glasgow and asking 4 people about the country, then taking their word as gospel - you've carried out the smallest poll in the world and are headstrong in your belief that it is the truth. Do some research. Edited March 6, 2013 by ExpandMyMind 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted March 6, 2013 #41 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Also I apologize, I was just having fun man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2013 #42 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Just a few questions: Under Chavez, how many poor Venezuelan's (after all, he and his supporters justified everything he did because "he was helping the poor") had the ability to travel abroad for cancer treatment? Were more of them able to? Did any of them? Why not? Apparently he had $2 billion, so there was more than enough money to send quite a few cancer-ridden poor Venezuelans to some of the best treatment facilities in the world. Not really the point - he lifted millions from abject poverty into a secure state. The fact that most couldn't afford to go to private clinics is not indicative of anything. How many Americans can afford to travel abroad for private treatment - not many. Measure him by what he achieved for his people - which was a lot - and they genuinely loved him for it which is more than can be said for almost any western leader. Br Cornelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Of Shadows Posted March 7, 2013 #43 Share Posted March 7, 2013 it's amusing how his supporters and people close to him kept saying " he was alright his health improving " " all rumors about his situation is wrong and absurd " " he's taking chemo treatment and he's in good health and high spirit " and poof he's dead .. not that am complaining Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted March 7, 2013 #44 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Speaking as an American for whom he held much animosity, his passing is a tragedy for his family but a net gain for my country. The man was working with Ahmadinejad to help create ballistic missile launch sites in our hemisphere ( http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/israel-online/2011/may/17/new-missile-crisis-iran-base-venezuela/) He was just another thug who played Robin Hood as far as I'm concerned. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orcseeker Posted March 7, 2013 #45 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Speaking as an American for whom he held much animosity, his passing is a tragedy for his family but a net gain for my country. The man was working with Ahmadinejad to help create ballistic missile launch sites in our hemisphere ( http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/israel-online/2011/may/17/new-missile-crisis-iran-base-venezuela/) He was just another thug who played Robin Hood as far as I'm concerned. Could you really blame either of them? With Israel and the US knocking on their door armed to the teeth. The US tried to kill him before. What do you suggest someone like that do? The US had been screwing over the bulk of Venezuela for a long time as I outlined before. Consider yourself in their position, what would you do? You understand this hate is all because of the excessive greed of the higher ups in the US? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted March 8, 2013 #46 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Could you really blame either of them? With Israel and the US knocking on their door armed to the teeth. The US tried to kill him before. What do you suggest someone like that do? The US had been screwing over the bulk of Venezuela for a long time as I outlined before. Consider yourself in their position, what would you do? You understand this hate is all because of the excessive greed of the higher ups in the US? What I understand, Orcseeker, is that some here would blame the US and Israel for their halitosis and hemorrhoids before they'd look to any other cause, no matter how rational. It gets old, man. Or are you suggesting that the US had some intention to invade ...uh... Venezuela? Really? A'jad and Chavez had as their reason for existence the downfall of the US. It made them look powerful to the home folks. Chavez, for all the good he did for the poor in Venezuela was still just a thug. I'm not sorry that he's gone but neither do I gloat over his corpse. He lived his life the way he wanted to and did some good so he's no worse than most in that respect, but he HATED MY country. And I don't respect people who think they can just blame America for every hardship that comes down the pike. Newsflash about greed, man, it's UNIVERSAL. The US doesn't hold a patent on human frailty or evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidhead Posted March 8, 2013 #47 Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) What I understand, Orcseeker, is that some here would blame the US and Israel for their halitosis and hemorrhoids before they'd look to any other cause, no matter how rational. It gets old, man. Or are you suggesting that the US had some intention to invade ...uh... Venezuela? Really? A'jad and Chavez had as their reason for existence the downfall of the US. It made them look powerful to the home folks. Chavez, for all the good he did for the poor in Venezuela was still just a thug. I'm not sorry that he's gone but neither do I gloat over his corpse. He lived his life the way he wanted to and did some good so he's no worse than most in that respect, but he HATED MY country. And I don't respect people who think they can just blame America for every hardship that comes down the pike. Newsflash about greed, man, it's UNIVERSAL. The US doesn't hold a patent on human frailty or evil. Israel? What's Israel? Never heard of them except in fiction books. Edited March 8, 2013 by acidhead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 8, 2013 #48 Share Posted March 8, 2013 What I understand, Orcseeker, is that some here would blame the US and Israel for their halitosis and hemorrhoids before they'd look to any other cause, no matter how rational. It gets old, man. Or are you suggesting that the US had some intention to invade ...uh... Venezuela? Really? A'jad and Chavez had as their reason for existence the downfall of the US. It made them look powerful to the home folks. Chavez, for all the good he did for the poor in Venezuela was still just a thug. I'm not sorry that he's gone but neither do I gloat over his corpse. He lived his life the way he wanted to and did some good so he's no worse than most in that respect, but he HATED MY country. And I don't respect people who think they can just blame America for every hardship that comes down the pike. Newsflash about greed, man, it's UNIVERSAL. The US doesn't hold a patent on human frailty or evil. The CIA were firmly implicated in the attempted coup against Venezuela in order to put in Chavez' place a compliant dictator. That is a form of invasion in my book - so yes I think Chavez had a genuine reason for been concerned about the USA attempting such a thing again. Judge a country by its deeds not its rhetoric. There are plenty of countries with plenty of justifiable reasons to hate your country - live with it. Br Cornelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted March 8, 2013 #49 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Israel? What's Israel? Never heard of them except in fiction books. Oh, they weren't until Season 2 of the popular 'Bogeymen" series. Israel isn't blamed by the likes of me for anything beyond what anyone else is blamed for, that is, beyond their own actions. But in 'Bogeymen' the heroes battle the vampires who can't blame Israel for anything, especially their own actions. There's a lot of crap places in the world, Israel is hardly alone in that. I just don't agree with giving a dime to any of them, and though that's as fair a standard as is humanly possible, it's not to the Israel-firsters who act like they live in the 'United States of Israel' (see Chuck Hagel, the new US Secretary of Defense). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.United_Nations Posted March 8, 2013 #50 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Why do i have a feeling this thread will be closed just because Israel is mentioned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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