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Venezuela's Hugo Chavez dies aged 58

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Posted (edited)

What I understand, Orcseeker, is that some here would blame the US and Israel for their halitosis and hemorrhoids before they'd look to any other cause, no matter how rational. It gets old, man. Or are you suggesting that the US had some intention to invade ...uh... Venezuela? Really? A'jad and Chavez had as their reason for existence the downfall of the US. It made them look powerful to the home folks. Chavez, for all the good he did for the poor in Venezuela was still just a thug. I'm not sorry that he's gone but neither do I gloat over his corpse. He lived his life the way he wanted to and did some good so he's no worse than most in that respect, but he HATED MY country. And I don't respect people who think they can just blame America for every hardship that comes down the pike. Newsflash about greed, man, it's UNIVERSAL. The US doesn't hold a patent on human frailty or evil.

As I said before. The US screwed over most of the populace due to a very corrupt government that only placed wealth in the rich while the rest lived in extreme poverty, they exploited the fact that the rich had lots of power and wanted to keep it, as well as a two class socioeconomic society. I'd say the US had quite a lot to answer for. As Cornelius suggested before, they effectively invaded Venezuela.

Now it seems like when the US is poking the stick it's completely justifiable but if someone pokes them back, they're some evil corrupt villain. Chavez called Bush the devil and Fox News stupid... Aren't those things at least somewhat true?

Unless of course you think Bush was a great president that did well... Any good things at all? Or Fox News a completely unbiased and fair news station that spreads very well researched and unskewed information? Then ok.

The thing is, if that was happening to your country, I bet you'd be outraged.

Edited by Orcseeker

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As I said before. The US screwed over most of the populace due to a very corrupt government that only placed wealth in the rich while the rest lived in extreme poverty, they exploited the fact that the rich had lots of power and wanted to keep it, as well as a two class socioeconomic society. I'd say the US had quite a lot to answer for. As Cornelius suggested before, they effectively invaded Venezuela.

Now it seems like when the US is poking the stick it's completely justifiable but if someone pokes them back, they're some evil corrupt villain. Chavez called Bush the devil and Fox News stupid... Aren't those things at least somewhat true?

Unless of course you think Bush was a great president that did well... Any good things at all? Or Fox News a completely unbiased and fair news station that spreads very well researched and unskewed information? Then ok.

The thing is, if that was happening to your country, I bet you'd be outraged.

I voted for Bush the first time because I agreed with his policy stances. The second time because there was no better choice from the conservative side. And I, along with the great majority of Americans who consume cable news, watch Fox not because it is completely bias free, but because it at least has SOME balance. The rest - CNN, MSNBC, CBS and ABC are so completely whored out to the left that they are shameless. The ideology of the Left in US politics is gaining sway now and as they consolidate power and have their policies implemented more fully they will at some point be held accountable for the results (I guess). But they rely on low info individuals as a power base and that base can turn on you pretty quickly when the gravy train come to a stop. They idolize people like Chavez because he played Robin Hood with the country's resources but also because he demonized the "rich" Yankee Imperialists. It's not enough to take what the producers create - they have to vilify them to salve their consciences afterward.

Eventually when everyone is at the same level of mediocrity or even poverty, those who produce excellence will rise to the top again because that is human nature. It is the only system that creates wealth. And it is just human nature to lust after such wealth and in some cases anyway, to work for it.

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I voted for Bush the first time because I agreed with his policy stances. The second time because there was no better choice from the conservative side. And I, along with the great majority of Americans who consume cable news, watch Fox not because it is completely bias free, but because it at least has SOME balance. The rest - CNN, MSNBC, CBS and ABC are so completely whored out to the left that they are shameless. The ideology of the Left in US politics is gaining sway now and as they consolidate power and have their policies implemented more fully they will at some point be held accountable for the results (I guess). But they rely on low info individuals as a power base and that base can turn on you pretty quickly when the gravy train come to a stop. They idolize people like Chavez because he played Robin Hood with the country's resources but also because he demonized the "rich" Yankee Imperialists. It's not enough to take what the producers create - they have to vilify them to salve their consciences afterward.

Eventually when everyone is at the same level of mediocrity or even poverty, those who produce excellence will rise to the top again because that is human nature. It is the only system that creates wealth. And it is just human nature to lust after such wealth and in some cases anyway, to work for it.

A country who fosters inequality in its own borders and in other countries borders because it allows cheap extraction of resources is going to have a socially malign effect on the world. The end point of such thinking is to reintroduce slavery.

Socially progressive countries are more stable and more productive overall - isn't that a goal which we should all be aiming for ??

Br Cornelius

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A country who fosters inequality in its own borders and in other countries borders because it allows cheap extraction of resources is going to have a socially malign effect on the world. The end point of such thinking is to reintroduce slavery.

Socially progressive countries are more stable and more productive overall - isn't that a goal which we should all be aiming for ??

Br Cornelius

Yes we should. But I am unaware of one that has prospered long term in history. No exceptional thing that, since I am not a scholar, but if a country like that has existed can you direct me to it? The problem with all human systems of government and economics is that they seem to do a poor job on one level or another of accounting for human weakness, greed and pride. Capitalism seems to be the best at using those deficiencies to some advantage for periods of time.
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Socialism never really worked for Venezuela, for the poor people yes it worked, but it did not solve anything. The police are under paid when they they do theirr duties, so in order to become rich they become corrupt

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Yes we should. But I am unaware of one that has prospered long term in history. No exceptional thing that, since I am not a scholar, but if a country like that has existed can you direct me to it? The problem with all human systems of government and economics is that they seem to do a poor job on one level or another of accounting for human weakness, greed and pride. Capitalism seems to be the best at using those deficiencies to some advantage for periods of time.

My main critique here is that you take afront when a country attempts to resist the imperialistic influence of the USA . There are no easy solutions, but why defend the indefensible.

The first step in finding a solution is to admit the root of the problem. Meddling in another countries affairs for greed is the root of most of the world problem. We should start pointing the finger rather than defending the perpetrator.

Br Cornelius

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So it seems they decided to treat Chavez like Lenin and Mao and have him laying in state for all time...or until his rivals win an election. :P A touch creepy if you ask me. Just let him have his rest.

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Posted (edited)

The CIA were firmly implicated in the attempted coup against Venezuela in order to put in Chavez' place a compliant dictator.

That is a form of invasion in my book - so yes I think Chavez had a genuine reason for been concerned about the USA attempting such a thing again.

Judge a country by its deeds not its rhetoric.

There are plenty of countries with plenty of justifiable reasons to hate your country - live with it.

Br Cornelius

Your opinions I will listen to brutha - your instructions you can stick up your backside. Edited by and then

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My main critique here is that you take afront when a country attempts to resist the imperialistic influence of the USA . There are no easy solutions, but why defend the indefensible.

The first step in finding a solution is to admit the root of the problem. Meddling in another countries affairs for greed is the root of most of the world problem. We should start pointing the finger rather than defending the perpetrator.

Br Cornelius

Fair enough. I will be the first to admit that my country has been very heavy handed around the world since the end of WWII. We have done things with both good and bad intent and with either there have been some negative consequences - my sticking point with those who constantly belittle my home is that they NEVER mention any good that America has done in the world. From helping after catastrophes to acting as an engine to the global economy for decades - none of that matters. It's all about - what have you done for me lately? I resent the asinine people who ignore those things and use America as some sort of foil for every problem that exists in the world. Screw them, and the horse they rode in on :tu::w00t:

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Posted (edited)

If I could see a body of good works motivated by anything other than self interest I might even agree with you.

Until that day arrives we are going to have to disagree :tu:

Its very much like our own apologists for the British Empire who say we did it for the good of the colonized - bull**** !

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

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MSNBC did an hour story on hugo lol.it goes to show you what there about

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MSNBC did an hour story on hugo lol.it goes to show you what there about

MSNBC has got to be the worse news channel I have ever seen so doing some special on Chavez isn't surprising lol
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I voted for Bush the first time because I agreed with his policy stances. The second time because there was no better choice from the conservative side. And I, along with the great majority of Americans who consume cable news, watch Fox not because it is completely bias free, but because it at least has SOME balance. The rest - CNN, MSNBC, CBS and ABC are so completely whored out to the left that they are shameless. The ideology of the Left in US politics is gaining sway now and as they consolidate power and have their policies implemented more fully they will at some point be held accountable for the results (I guess). But they rely on low info individuals as a power base and that base can turn on you pretty quickly when the gravy train come to a stop. They idolize people like Chavez because he played Robin Hood with the country's resources but also because he demonized the "rich" Yankee Imperialists. It's not enough to take what the producers create - they have to vilify them to salve their consciences afterward.

Eventually when everyone is at the same level of mediocrity or even poverty, those who produce excellence will rise to the top again because that is human nature. It is the only system that creates wealth. And it is just human nature to lust after such wealth and in some cases anyway, to work for it.

I'm convinced Gore or Kelly would have been a hell of a lot better than Bush. May as well have elected a monkey.

I agree every major news station in the US is bad but watch outfoxed. Fox News generally follow a certain method of interviews that one could deem unethical.

Sounds like you're against a method of getting rid of higher up corruption and helping out the bulk of the country which is dirt poor and keeping it in a regressive state. Look what's happening in the US now; lots of people now don't have jobs. I watched a documentary recently how qualified and experienced people are working at Disney or wherever they can get work for $8 an hour. Where at the same time there are people in your country with more money than they can possibly hope to spend or use.

Tesla died a poor man but changed the world and brought some of the biggest inventions into the modern world to make it like it is today. Those at the top now are not excellent. Look at the mess their greed has caused. Wealth and talent don't go hand in hand, especially in this day and age.

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If I could see a body of good works motivated by anything other than self interest I might even agree with you.

Until that day arrives we are going to have to disagree :tu:

Its very much like our own apologists for the British Empire who say we did it for the good of the colonized - bull**** !

Br Cornelius

Arn't Argentina trying to be Imperialists for the Falklands?

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Arn't Argentina trying to be Imperialists for the Falklands?

They certainly are trying .

Br Cornelius

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Requiescat in pace, Chavez.

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