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Scudbuster

Edgar Mitchell says a lot.......

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hello S2F, when you say notion are you referring to the notion that there was a cover up or that UFOs equate ot ET?

Hey quill, sorry I should have been more clear. I meant the UFO=ET bit. While I'll admit that is a possibility I don't think we are ever going to find that definitive link in any of the old cases. We need something new, something big. Another crashed saucer in the middle of a large city would do quite nicely I think. ^_^ :tu:

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Hey quill, sorry I should have been more clear. I meant the UFO=ET bit. While I'll admit that is a possibility I don't think we are ever going to find that definitive link in any of the old cases. We need something new, something big. Another crashed saucer in the middle of a large city would do quite nicely I think. ^_^ :tu:

ahh ok cheers, and I do agree with all you have said. Although I guess I do love some of the *old cases* but I will only ever have enough to strengthen my belief but never enough to prove anything.

And yes I also everyday think about how a modern day big event could easily give us what we need and I would also think a cover up would be less possible than say 30-40 years ago.......I wouldnt even need it to be in a big city :)

edit to add: * Pascagoula* for example :P had to drop this into the Mitchell thread somewhere...(you should come and give your thoughts on the case)

Edited by quillius
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ahh ok cheers, and I do agree with all you have said. Although I guess I do love some of the *old cases* but I will only ever have enough to strengthen my belief but never enough to prove anything.

And yes I also everyday think about how a modern day big event could easily give us what we need and I would also think a cover up would be less possible than say 30-40 years ago.......I wouldnt even need it to be in a big city :)

edit to add: * Pascagoula* for example :P had to drop this into the Mitchell thread somewhere...(you should come and give your thoughts on the case)

Indeed, I think at the time of Roswell (sorry for bringing that little turd up :P ) there was a fair amount of trust in the government to handle the situation properly so even if there were a crash, people would leave the site untouched for the most part. I think it is apparently obvious that that trust has been abused since then and I wouldn't doubt one bit that there would be people scavenging over the (new) crash site like the last truck load of Twinkies spilled on a highway. You'd probably see bits and pieces for sale on Ebay or Amazon within hours regardless of what the government mandated. The government may put a major clamp on something like that, maybe even going to the trouble to shut entire portions of the internet down but surely not before something got out (and hopefully into the right hands).

Ah well, one can hope for a new 'event' at least. :tu:

*Edit: I'll have to give a good read of the Pascagoula thread first, it's not a case I'm intimately knowledgeable of.

Edited by Slave2Fate

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Indeed, I think at the time of Roswell (sorry for bringing that little turd up :P ) there was a fair amount of trust in the government to handle the situation properly so even if there were a crash, people would leave the site untouched for the most part. I think it is apparently obvious that that trust has been abused since then and I wouldn't doubt one bit that there would be people scavenging over the (new) crash site like the last truck load of Twinkies spilled on a highway. You'd probably see bits and pieces for sale on Ebay or Amazon within hours regardless of what the government mandated. The government may put a major clamp on something like that, maybe even going to the trouble to shut entire portions of the internet down but surely not before something got out (and hopefully into the right hands).

Ah well, one can hope for a new 'event' at least. :tu:

*Edit: I'll have to give a good read of the Pascagoula thread first, it's not a case I'm intimately knowledgeable of.

yes exactly, and the super fast transfer of information and images around the world would again make it very hard to contain....

*please do, its a great case IMO, especially when you listen to the recording of the men when they were being secretly taped...sets the scene nicely :tu:

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agreed, it is not 'proof' and it is just what the evidence of a cover up suggests.

oh yes, but at the same time it could also be many other things, unknown for instance... we have seen many declassified documents which were obtained through the foia, some of them regarding some of the famous eth candidates and none of them had anything indicative of such a stance i.e. an et visitation cover-up... in any case, by that i don't mean that it's absolutely impossible for the government to hide such evidence, but without any definitive info it's just mere speculation... maybe at some point they thought that they were dealing with interplanetary crafts, but that was way long back and we have evolved since then and though there are still classified stuff re ufos, i think the conspiracy angle is mostly based on these old assumptions... but isn't that an appeal to authority? an authority which we don't want to trust but are willing to only accept their outdated conjectures?

I also think that outright denial that there was never a cover up let alone a continued investigation (even after the apperent closure of Bluebook) is also just as problematic dont you think?

yes, of course, but that's an issue only as far as the us government is concerned imo

In fact I would say these two extremes fuel eachother, and without eachother may not find it as necessary to maintain their 'extreme' position,

but what about the other countries which have declassified their ufo files, has that helped the cause in any way? or can we just fall back on an ad hoc and claim that the real nuggets never surfaced in the first place?

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oh yes, but at the same time it could also be many other things, unknown for instance... we have seen many declassified documents which were obtained through the foia, some of them regarding some of the famous eth candidates and none of them had anything indicative of such a stance i.e. an et visitation cover-up... in any case, by that i don't mean that it's absolutely impossible for the government to hide such evidence, but without any definitive info it's just mere speculation... maybe at some point they thought that they were dealing with interplanetary crafts, but that was way long back and we have evolved since then and though there are still classified stuff re ufos, i think the conspiracy angle is mostly based on these old assumptions... but isn't that an appeal to authority? an authority which we don't want to trust but are willing to only accept their outdated conjectures?

yes, of course, but that's an issue only as far as the us government is concerned imo

but what about the other countries which have declassified their ufo files, has that helped the cause in any way? or can we just fall back on an ad hoc and claim that the real nuggets never surfaced in the first place?

I think you've just summed up my opinions on the matter quite succinctly. It's difficult to progress beyond the points you bring up without adding things that aren't there and 'reading between the lines' and what not. Those practices are good enough to arouse suspicion but fall woefully short of producing a conclusion.

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. Another crashed saucer in the middle of a large city would do quite nicely I think. ^_^ :tu:

let's hope not.

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let's hope not.

Yeah, I hadn't considered the destruction end of the deal. Maybe they could do us a solid and crash into a Walmart or something... kidding, in case anyone couldn't tell :lol:

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I will answer both you and pysche101 in the same response in this reply. First off, no I am not open minded to the point where my BRAIN[assuming that's what you meant in place of braijn?] will fall out. Just the opposite. I read the evidence in the form of books, watch documentaries, and draw my own conclusions based on that. If I were too open minded as you were implying, I would simply be going on a willingness to believe or blind faith. Neither of which I have, btw.

You have indeed displayed blind belief, you refuse to listen to what Edgar Mitchell has to say for a start.

What do you call a "documentary"? I have seen others use the term to describe entertainment shows, which are clearly not documentaries.

n.pl.doc·u·men·ta·ries

A work, such as a film or television program, presenting political, social, or historical subject matter in a factual and informative manner and often consisting of actual news films or interviews accompanied by narration.

Is that indeed what we are talking about? Factual? Or speculation?

And to p101,

:st

I can say this again; what we have is a clash of mindsets on this Edgar Mitchell issue.

Indeed, you seem to insist on making up a story out of his words that does not exist. I have asked you to confirm your claims, and have confirmed mine with links, not to mention an entire thread dedicated to Edgar Mitchell's sources, which are less than convincing.

You are obviously of the mindset that there is nothing to it. I am of the mindset that something is definitely going on with this and other occurances in reguards to a UFO cover-up.

You are doing exactly what Jim said you are doing. And you think pointing out a spelling mistake is clever? He just called you. That is why you refuse to answer posts but put up these lazy little paragraphs so you do not have to deal with the facts that I have given you which prove your claim is speculation and embellishment only. There is absoltuly nothing to it, and yet again I double dog dare you to prove otherwise. Please point out what additional sources exist that have not been covered in the thread I pointed you at.

I have no need to give link after link to direct proof because all of the evidence that would either convince or dissuade each individual is historical knowledge. There are books, documentaries, television shows, and search engines for those who wish to look up what I say on the forums here and view the circumstantial evidence for themselves.

Historical hearsay you mean, mainly over the last 50-60 years. Be honest.

If it has not convinced the rest of the globe in all of these decades, not one shred of actual proof exists to support the speculations that people place upon lights in the sky. If you are so open minded why can you not consider that the speculation afre plain wrong. Just like how we used to say lighting was thrown by Zeus, and thunder came from Thors mighty hammer. Todays ET has merely replaced these gods of old. But you cannot even consider that, yet without proof, your "theory", which I must point out is nothing like the definition for "scientific theory" is merely no more than musings. Believing it's status is elevated is a personal opinion.

All in all, you have nothing. If not for some compelling tales and some open minded scientists, the phenomena would have no credibility at all. Like I mentioned, there are two types of believers. One is completely respectable. The other................... not so much.

Nice touch with the whole attack mode in which you quite convincingly made me look like a crackpot or blind believer. Its a good spin and one which skeptics have used for decades to make the believers in a cover-up look less than credible or even insane.

Ohh you poor thing.

LeBron-James-Smallest-Violin-Gif.gif

I did nothing more than point out the holes in your tall tales. Don't be a crybaby, you provided the information, you should not have stacked it so precariously as it was very easy to knock down. Did you follow the link to the ATS thread about Roswell? Why did you refuse to comment on that? It answers every question does it not? As I said, I would like to see if you can falsify it, I could not, as a result, I changed my stance from MOGUL to supporting this hypothesis, as it seems very strong to me. Have you ever changed a major support stance for an items with regards to the phenomena? Can you accept new evidence as it comes to hand?

In my view, that is a diversionary tactic to distract from the real issue; government suppression of intimate knowledge of ET life and the UFO phenomena.

In my view, this very claim you have made is a diversionary tactic so that you do not have to answer the facts placed before you, or acknowledge that they falsify your claims.

Very common with believers Avoid the facts, have a big whinge, try to make everyone feel sorry for me. Doesn't work mate.

Like I say, you either believe guys like Edgar Mitchell or you don't. But, to ignore people like Mitchell who knew a helluva lot more than the general public is simply arrogant and ignorant at the least.

Do you believe Edgar Mitchell?

(Edgar Mitchell) Although I firmly believe it is time for openness and disclosure by government, I object to being misused in this fashion and acquire guilt by association with certain claims that simply are not true.

EM: I don’t know what really got things stirred up, perhaps it was the Larry King show. I don’t know.

LB: Could be. But basically people are freaking out that you were aware of several UFO visits.

EM: That’s not quite right. You use that in the plural. I was talking about the Roswell incident, the Roswell visitation primarily, but there have been many others that have been reported that I have no personal awareness of but that was the one that I was really talking about.

(Edgar Mitchell) I, nor any crew I was on (I was on three Apollo crews), received any briefing before or after flights on UFO events, saw anything in space suggesting UFOs or structures on the moon, etc. We did it just like we said in official reports. My only claim to knowledge of these events is from the individuals, mostly of yesteryear, who were in government, intelligence, or military; were there, saw what they saw, and now believe it should be made public. But I claim no first hand knowledge, nor have any. Pass it on to the rest of the net, if you will.

--Edgar Mitchell

LB: The interviews are quoted as saying that you say sources at NASA who had contact with aliens…

EM: That is totally false.

EM: Well, we’ve all seen the pictures of the so-called aliens – “little grays.” I have no first-hand evidence that that’s true, but I do accept the fact that those seem to be the prevalent story.

LB: What do you think of NASA’s statement that “Dr.Mitchell is a great American but we don’t share his opinions”?

EM: I can understand if they think I was attributing anything to the NASA organization, or deriving anything from the NASA organization, they can certainly say that. And it’s true because none of my experience or what I said relates to NASA at all.

Seriously CB, what does it take? Do you need Dr Mitchell to come up to you, and shout all the above statements to your face before you will hear them?

You are ignoring Edgar Mitchell, just look at these statements. Like the media, you are just making stuff up to suit your personal conclusion. Your claims are not supported by the man you say made them. Again, I refer you to the Dr Mitchell thread, and ask you to look at his "sources", please tell me THEN, why any of the media claims are more than pure rubbish.

You cannot accomplish that, can you.

Some people are content to look the other way and pretend nothing is going on. Which is fine, just don't try and undermine those of us who chose to see what is clearly in front of us......

That is indeed what you are doing, looking the other way, speculating, and then trying to tell people your musings are fact. Wake up to yourself man. Don't try and tell me fact exists, that simply does not, if you want to make that claim, prove it. do not preach something and expect followers, the world is a smarter place each an every day, expect more of this from all angles as the human species improves.

The very least you could do is show something to offer why even you believe the tripe you are dishing out.

Edited by psyche101
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I could do like you, go quote by quote and try to reason. Clearly, this whole thing has sunken into childlike bashing over simple differences of opinions and opposing mindsets. I will not get into that, because it is a waste of time and not worth the effort you are clearly exerting to try and disprove my viewpoint[which shows your utter lack of respect for opposing views]. There have been numerous books written on this topic and I did refer to those as well, to which you glazed over in mistaking and twisting my meaning from earlier posts. Did I give links? Why bother? Most of the stuff I'm referring to is public knowledge and can be researched and looked up via search engines. You can also look up documentaries on the topic as it relates to my prior point about the UFO cover-up. It all ends up being a matter of opinion which cannot be refuted since everyone has their own views and belief systems based on what everyone perceives as evidence[whether it is actual proof or simply circumstantial, to which I alluded to earlier and even said plenty of times]. I'm not gonna spend time arguing like a 5 year old because I simply do not agree with your particular point-of-view.

And FYI, when you said I was being "clever" in correcting Oberg's grammar error, I was being SARCASTIC. How sad indeed. Let me explain one final thing in reguards to your numerous requests for "proof"; I do not post here to change anyone's mind on these unexplained mysteries. I am simply stating that from what I have seen and read about, that it seems very likely IN MY OWN VIEW that there is a conspiracy. The mere fact that Edgar Mitchell, Philip Corso, Jesse Marcell, Gordon Cooper, and many others are of that same viewpoint is very telling. I am a realist and I post here for fun and not to be contrary or spend all day giving links to please someone else by trying to change opinions. It's that simple. If you choose to quote this and complain about or belittle that, then it shows a certain level of immaturity and the inability to accept differing viewpoints.

Edited by conspiracy buff

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The mere fact that Edgar Mitchell, Philip Corso, Jesse Marcell, Gordon Cooper, and many others are of that same viewpoint is very telling.

Amen brother - my feelings exactly.

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<snip>

The mere fact that Edgar Mitchell, Philip Corso, Jesse Marcell, Gordon Cooper, and many others are of that same viewpoint is very telling.

<snip>

How so? All they have is a belief, none of them have seen anything that could be counted as a smoking gun - as pointed out earlier by other posters.

Cheers,

Badeskov

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How so? All they have is a belief, none of them have seen anything that could be counted as a smoking gun - as pointed out earlier by other posters.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Let me clarify my meaning here; These guys were all more qualified to speak on this topic than your average joe. Edgar Mitchell & Gordon Cooper went into space, meaning they had a pretty good feel for whether or not life "out there" is possible. Both claimed to either have second-hand knowledge or direct knowledge in reguards to alien life and whether the US Government and NASA were covering it up. Jesse Marcel and Philip Corso were both inside the military and were privy to things most people will never know about officially. You also have indirect and independent verification of a cover-up scenario. The "majestic 12" documents claim to be a direct link to people involved with a UFO cover story. I realize that skeptics will have a field day with that last statement because the documents are highly controversial and in dispute as not authentic. Even so, it is entirely plausible that there is a group of people who control a cover-up if one believes that it is a distinct possibility.

Regular civilians making extraordinary UFO claims is one thing. Having all these highly ranked and respected people coming forward to share their knowledge is quite the other. It is highly disrespectful to these courageous individuals who risked their careers and personal lives by coming forward to let the public know. Of course, these days respect is a rare thing that most people do not have a concept of and definitely will not show.

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Let me clarify my meaning here; These guys were all more qualified to speak on this topic than your average joe. Edgar Mitchell & Gordon Cooper went into space, meaning they had a pretty good feel for whether or not life "out there" is possible. Both claimed to either have second-hand knowledge or direct knowledge in reguards to alien life and whether the US Government and NASA were covering it up. Jesse Marcel and Philip Corso were both inside the military and were privy to things most people will never know about officially. You also have indirect and independent verification of a cover-up scenario. The "majestic 12" documents claim to be a direct link to people involved with a UFO cover story. I realize that skeptics will have a field day with that last statement because the documents are highly controversial and in dispute as not authentic. Even so, it is entirely plausible that there is a group of people who control a cover-up if one believes that it is a distinct possibility.

Regular civilians making extraordinary UFO claims is one thing. Having all these highly ranked and respected people coming forward to share their knowledge is quite the other. It is highly disrespectful to these courageous individuals who risked their careers and personal lives by coming forward to let the public know. Of course, these days respect is a rare thing that most people do not have a concept of and definitely will not show.

well Conspiracy Buff, you certainly deserve your forum name!

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Edgar Mitchell & Gordon Cooper went into space, meaning they had a pretty good feel for whether or not life "out there" is possible.

I've been snorkeling in the Atlantic ocean, does that qualify me as a marine biologist?

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well Conspiracy Buff, you certainly deserve your forum name!

Glad to see the fan club grows :D

I've been snorkeling in the Atlantic ocean, does that qualify me as a marine biologist?

Very shrewd how you did that!! Seriously, congrats :clap: I think I have made my point in this topic; whether you believe in a UF0 cover up and all of that, there is a lot of highly circumstantial evidence to support this theory. The more one looks into the official status-quo about alien life and the facts surrounding known incidents that cannot be explained away, the more you see there is more to the story than the official version given to the public. If you disagree, fine. It's hard to ignore the obvious but some people would rather do that than to admit more is going on. And just FYI, just because you snorkeled does not make you an expert in marine biology, although that's a funny deflection. The fact is that Edgar Mitchell and Gordon Cooper have both went on record as saying they believe in ET life and one must assume they have been witness to things to convince them of that. As have Jesse Marcel, J. Allen Hynek, Philip Corso, and countless others. As I've previously stated, one or two people claiming this may be coincidental and qualified as crazy people telling outrageous stories. Over the last 40-50 years alone there has been a wealth of material on the topic and to ignore all of that is crazy. Again, dealing with mindsets that oppose is a tricky topic. People on this forum may consider me a crazy conspiracy theorist and I consider people who ignore the obvious crazy. I guess at this point it is beating a dead horse here and we must agree to disagree.

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...The fact is that Edgar Mitchell and Gordon Cooper have both went on record as saying they believe in ET life and one must assume they have been witness to things to convince them of that. ...

To assume that, you must assume that Mitchell, who denies it, is lying. So he's telling the truth about lying?

Another explanation is that your going-in assumption is unjustified.

Cooper claims to have been a witness on two occasions. But what about all the other witnesses who were present on both occasions who unanimously dispute Cooper's narrative? Are they sub-human liars, or has Cooper embellished and exaggerated his tale over the years to please his audiences? Nah, jet pilots would NEVER do that, you assume?

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...Over the last 40-50 years alone there has been a wealth of material on the topic and to ignore all of that is crazy. Again, dealing with mindsets that oppose is a tricky topic. People on this forum may consider me a crazy conspiracy theorist and I consider people who ignore the obvious crazy. I guess at this point it is beating a dead horse here and we must agree to disagree.

That's your excuse, I guess, for deliberately ignoring ALL the investigations into Cooper's stories. ALL that evidence -- you want to not see it, to not know about it, to close your eyes and mind to it. Isn't that a classic example of belief-based imagination-driven fantasy?

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Let me clarify my meaning here; These guys were all more qualified to speak on this topic than your average joe. Edgar Mitchell & Gordon Cooper went into space, meaning they had a pretty good feel for whether or not life "out there" is possible. Both claimed to either have second-hand knowledge or direct knowledge in reguards to alien life and whether the US Government and NASA were covering it up. ...

i've only been looking into these stories about forty years, somehow I hacven't gotten to the point where Mitchell and/or cooper claim NASA is covering up UFO information.

Please provide me the links to their words where they make this suggestion.

Otherwise, please consider the possibility that YOU are imagining things, maybe to make yourself feel smarter, or whatever, I don't know. But you have made a claim of fact here that I think you have not a shred of proof for.

Please show me where my assessment is wrong.

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I could do like you, go quote by quote and try to reason. Clearly, this whole thing has sunken into childlike bashing over simple differences of opinions and opposing mindsets. I will not get into that, because it is a waste of time and not worth the effort you are clearly exerting to try and disprove my viewpoint[which shows your utter lack of respect for opposing views]. ...

Please, do try to quote evidence, and try to reason. We can differ over interpretation, and levels of credibility, but we should be able to agree on what is documented fact. And you have made assertions that I see no evidence for, regarding Mitchell and Cooper accusations of NASA coverups. Can you address this question, or admit you misspoke?

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Let me clarify my meaning here; These guys were all more qualified to speak on this topic than your average joe.

Care to expand on that? So if I dip my my toes in the water here at the beach, I am also better qualified to express myself on the topic of life in the sea than, say, somebody working with it on a daily basis?

Edgar Mitchell & Gordon Cooper went into space, meaning they had a pretty good feel for whether or not life "out there" is possible.

Why do you think so? Were any of them astro-biologists? Pray tell how they were more qualified. Or physics, perhaps?

Both claimed to either have second-hand knowledge or direct knowledge in reguards to alien life and whether the US Government and NASA were covering it up.

No they didn't. But feel free to substantiate that rather grandiose claim.

Jesse Marcel and Philip Corso were both inside the military and were privy to things most people will never know about officially.

And you know this how?

You also have indirect and independent verification of a cover-up scenario.

Really? The military covers up a lot of things, but please do expand on where they are covering something up in relation to ET.

The "majestic 12" documents claim to be a direct link to people involved with a UFO cover story. I realize that skeptics will have a field day with that last statement because the documents are highly controversial and in dispute as not authentic.

In dispute? I think that is a gross understatement. All indications point towards they are made up and to even suggest otherwise is ludicrous.

Even so, it is entirely plausible that there is a group of people who control a cover-up if one believes that it is a distinct possibility.

Very implausible given the scope of such an undertaking.

Regular civilians making extraordinary UFO claims is one thing. Having all these highly ranked and respected people coming forward to share their knowledge is quite the other.

But they don't have any knowledge, all we have seen is hearsay and BS.

It is highly disrespectful to these courageous individuals who risked their careers and personal lives by coming forward to let the public know.

Utter nonsense. What is highly disrespectful, however, is how ET visitation believers latch onto such people and ascribe to them stories and allegations that are simply untrue, because of willful ignorance and a need to prop up arguments that has to basis in reality to begin with. That I find disrespectful.

Of course, these days respect is a rare thing that most people do not have a concept of and definitely will not show.

On that we agree, but probably not towards those you intended.

Cheers,

Badeskov

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I could do like you, go quote by quote and try to reason.

Please do, that is not only the point of a discussion forum, but courtesy. There used to be a rule specific to this part of the forum that said links are to be provided for supporting viewpoints, but I am not sure of that is still in force, or if it still applies.

Clearly, this whole thing has sunken into childlike bashing over simple differences of opinions and opposing mindsets.

Is that what you call losing a debate? At least you do not color letters to illustrate profanity and smatter smileys throughout your posting. That is something I suppose.

I will not get into that, because it is a waste of time and not worth the effort you are clearly exerting to try and disprove my viewpoint[which shows your utter lack of respect for opposing views].

Nonsense, you are making claims that are not only unsupported, but make no sense. What of my viewpoint? Is it to be simply dismissed because you are passionate about your own?

There have been numerous books written on this topic and I did refer to those as well, to which you glazed over in mistaking and twisting my meaning from earlier posts.

And I responded to them in full, showing the title to be accurate, Philip Corso knows about the day after, nothing about the event itself. And his claims about the day after are pretty darn shaky at that. I am not the one who has shown his claims to be highly embellished, and I gave you the research of a UFOlogist, as well as a skeptical response for a balanced reply. To be frank, I had expected more of a conversation from you, but all you seem to be capable of is complaining that you lose debates, and it has really taken little effort to expose these fraudulent claims. That alone ought to be something you are interested in discussing, but you appear to be more interested in protecting the faith.

Did I give links?

Nope. Had you done so, you might have some sort of fallback position, at the moment you just look like a sore loser. Surely you are capable of supporting your claims? They had to convince you I take it? Or did they?

Why bother?

Because it is courteous to do so in a discussion forum, and it supports your claims at least to the point whereby a person can understand where you are coming from. You have also complained about manners, but show little courtesy yourself. Your claims have been shown to be embellished or simply incorrect, yet you cannot acknowledge such, yet expect others to do so to these very claims based upon the very flimsy evidence. I have given you links to show you why I feel The Roswell Incident is not a UFO crash, not a balloon incident, but an Intel Op, with Lost Shamans Hypothesis, and asked you for your opinion. Where are your manners? I also asked you if you could attempt to falsify the hypothesis, as I have been unable to do so, and felt a set of eyes with a completely different viewpoint might be worthwhile, but it would seem you refuse to accept any possibility apart from those that you have already chosen as answers. And yet you claim to be open minded?

Most of the stuff I'm referring to is public knowledge and can be researched and looked up via search engines. You can also look up documentaries on the topic as it relates to my prior point about the UFO cover-up.

And as I have not only shown, but backed up with links, the stuff of headlines is embellished, and that is to be expected as reporters have to put food on the table. Lets be honest, which headline will sell newspapers?

1 - Police Officer Reports Unidentified Light In Sky to Aviation authorities.

or

2 - POLICE OFFICER SEES ALIEN SPACESHIP!!!

If it meant putting food on the table, how would you write the headline? Can't really blame them can we? But it does not mean we have to turn a blind eye to the bleeding obvious either.

You also avoided my question about documentary definition. I think we both know why, dont we? They are not documentaries at all, are they?

It all ends up being a matter of opinion which cannot be refuted since everyone has their own views and belief systems based on what everyone perceives as evidence[whether it is actual proof or simply circumstantial, to which I alluded to earlier and even said plenty of times]. I'm not gonna spend time arguing like a 5 year old because I simply do not agree with your particular point-of-view.

You can have opinion, but you are telling me that FACT Ed Mitchell knows ET is here. That is not fact, not by a country mile Mr. Buff. If you are happy to say "Yes, I turn a blind eye to the evidence, because I want to believe", then that is fine. People all over the world believe in various forms of some mythical cloud land we go to when we die. And I do not care if that is what you want, but if you tell me that we have people with actual knowledge about ET, then I want to know, and if you are telling me a c*** n bull story about aliens like the media does, I will point out that is is not valid information. Why you have a problem with that I do not know. You should be pleased if anything to know what information can be counted upon, and what you cannot count on. Skeptics do most of your job fo you, but you only see your goal getting further away, and that is because you are looking at this all wrong. You do not start with Aliens and work back form there, that is why the current ETH continually fails those who wield it. Aliens have to earn that pace, it should not be a default position.

And FYI, when you said I was being "clever" in correcting Oberg's grammar error, I was being SARCASTIC. How sad indeed. Let me explain one final thing in reguards to your numerous requests for "proof"; I do not post here to change anyone's mind on these unexplained mysteries. I am simply stating that from what I have seen and read about, that it seems very likely IN MY OWN VIEW that there is a conspiracy.

That distinction does not appear to assist your case from my viewpoint?

So this is the reality of the situation, you have a belief, based on hearsay. If that is what floats you boat, more power to you, I personally require more substance, and feel correcting erroneous information should not be a problem for you.

The mere fact that Edgar Mitchell, Philip Corso, Jesse Marcell, Gordon Cooper, and many others are of that same viewpoint is very telling.

But they are not are they? You are broad brushing the very same opinion most of us seem to share, and that is life exists "out there" the question of ET visitation is in Coopers claims something he has witnessed, in Mitchell's claims something he has not witnessed, but believes in, and Corso claims to have inside knowledge, and access to otherworldly technology, so they all have different reasons for their beliefs. That is not the same viewpoint, it is the same conclusion from personal viewpoints, and one which is very common.

I am a realist and I post here for fun and not to be contrary or spend all day giving links to please someone else by trying to change opinions. It's that simple. If you choose to quote this and complain about or belittle that, then it shows a certain level of immaturity and the inability to accept differing viewpoints.

How on earth are you a realist when you will only consider viewing half of the information - that would be that which allows your predetermined conclusion to flourish? I have asked for your opinion on several inconsistencies with regards to those that you consider "rock solid cases" to no avail. You put your head under the covers and shout go away, at least that is all I have seen from you? Are you capable of more than this?

I really do not see how you are a realist at all. You put forth some extraordinary notions, and expect them to be considered fact based only upon that they seem to impress you quite a bit. If you post for fun, yet again, I ask for your opinion of the alternates I have offered, such as Lost Shamans Hypothesis, no matter your conviction, if here for "fun" surely acknowledging a sound alternative is reasonably benign and would enjoy a discussion showing the best and worst these claims have to offer? Unless you have something to hide, such as an agenda?

As far as immaturity goes, I do feel that the way you lazily avoid any rebuttal, and only post whinges is a prime example of exactly that. If you had any substance to your claims, you would have more to present than weak complaints and zealous claims.

Edited by psyche101
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Let me clarify my meaning here;

I appreciate that you use the word "MY" here, as that is indeed much of this conflict. This is what you think these men said, based upon media interpretations, and by no fault of your own, or so I shall give the benefit of the doubt until shown otherwise, have an erroneous impression of the actual situation.

My only wonder is why you refuse to entertain the very fact that this conversation had more than one direction.

These guys were all more qualified to speak on this topic than your average joe. Edgar Mitchell & Gordon Cooper went into space, meaning they had a pretty good feel for whether or not life "out there" is possible.

This is what happened to Ed Mitchell to influence his view of life in space, and to be frank, I honestly think I have experienced the very same with a good Dobsonian.

LINK - Samadhi From Space – Edgar Mitchell’s Epiphany

Considering that Dr Mitchell is a tad eccentric already, as displayed with the Mind experiments (link - Dr Mitchell's ESP experiments) on the way to the moon, do you really find this a surprise?

I see you dropped McDivitt? good to see you can acknowledge when a clam is wrong, even if you do not have the courtesy to say so. That shows promise.

And how does space help Coops? His first claim was from Germany, 1951 was it not? That is not space, not by a long shot! And then there is this? - LINK Cooper denied reports he had seen a UFO during his Mercury flight

How do these guys have a batter feel than the people I mentioned, such as Sagan, Drake, Dr. Morrison, Professor Hawking? Considering what these men do, they seem to be far, far more qualified, yet hold some very different views to those two astronauts.

Both claimed to either have second-hand knowledge or direct knowledge in reguards to alien life and whether the US Government and NASA were covering it up.

That's another broad brush to make your statement look better than it is. Dr MItchell specifically states he has no first hand knowledge and in his book leap of faith, Cooper says neither he nor other astronauts saw UFOs in outer space. In fact Cooper claims to have chased, and seen saucers, but not aliens, he said he sent photos to officials that "disappeared", like gee, not heard that one before Coops :rolleyes: And In the late 1970s, Cooper unsuccessfully tried to launch a research company devoted to free worldwide energy transmission, apparently using Nikola Tesla's discoveries, as well as to advanced medical devices and other projects. His partner in this venture, Valerie Ransone (who in the late 1970's was travelling through the USA trying to raise money for a project to usher in the new age of space brothers, Atlantis etc.), claims to receive scientifically useful telepathic transmissions from extraterrestrial sources.

I'll give him this much, his claims do not leave much out. Bigfoot is about the only anomaly missing here.

Which one of these is stating NASA is part of the cover up?

Jesse Marcel and Philip Corso were both inside the military and were privy to things most people will never know about officially.

BS, you are making that up to, why would they be in on things most pople would not know about 60 years later?

Why do other professionals, dispute their claims?

You also have indirect and independent verification of a cover-up scenario.

Not at all, we have a nasty unfounded rumour, nothing more.

The "majestic 12" documents claim to be a direct link to people involved with a UFO cover story. I realize that skeptics will have a field day with that last statement because the documents are highly controversial and in dispute as not authentic. Even so, it is entirely plausible that there is a group of people who control a cover-up if one believes that it is a distinct possibility.

Because a set of bogus documents exists that say what you want them to, you feel this is somehow proof that such a real organisation exists??

I beg you pardon? Could I ask you to extrapolate? Seriously, this should be interesting to say the least.

Regular civilians making extraordinary UFO claims is one thing. Having all these highly ranked and respected people coming forward to share their knowledge is quite the other.

I dispute that. We do not have the large amount of people you claim we do, we have a few people in highly controversial position., who seem to want to write themselves into history, even if as a fabricator of evidence. I guess at least they will be remembered for a long time no matter what? I specifically pointed out many flaws in Hauts silly claim, who seems to have been in a strange position to begin with. LINK -

In the August/September 1992 issue of Air & Space/Smithsonian Magazine, Frank Kuznik wrote:

"Before my trip to Wright-Patterson, I tracked down Walter Haut, the retired base public information officer who wrote the infamous press release, and asked him if he ever actually saw the wreckage.
'No, and I feel like an idiot every time somebody asks me that,' he said ruefully. 'I got a call from the base commander, who basically dictated what was in the press release.'
"

Also noted in the KTVU story (April 23, 1997) is the fact that Walter Haut, former press officer for the 509th Bomb Wing at Roswell AAF who issued the famous July 8, 1947 press release claiming recovery of a flying disc, now says he had learned a few days after the announcement that "it was a screw up." Though widely quoted in recent years as believing an unusual craft had been recovered, the FOX news story showed Haut saying he thinks it was just a balloon.

Haut was one of the original founders of the International UFO Museum in Roswell, New Mexico, but has now cut all ties with the museum. Current museum director Deon Crosby told CNI News that Haut has referred to the UFO claims as "just a bunch of hooey."

LINK

But what does Jesse Marcel say about this??

"In the meantime, we had an eager-beaver public relations officer -- he found out about it-- he calls the AP [Associated Press] about it. Then that's when it really hit the fan -- I don't mind using that expression."

He thinks Haut put it all together, Haut cannot remember, and changed his story from seeing nothing, to describing a craft, that is to small to cross space. When do we start making sense at Roswell?

It is highly disrespectful to these courageous individuals who risked their careers and personal lives by coming forward to let the public know.

It might help if they made an ounce of sense and did not contradict each other don't you think? Have you ever considered this might well be the onset of dementia, and that showcasing their final scramble of thoughts might be somewhat disrespectful as well, and possibly much more so, as you send them to death as some sort of nutter and overshadowing the great accomplishments they did have? Was Haut a military man, or that UFO guy? What is he known widely for?

Of course, these days respect is a rare thing that most people do not have a concept of and definitely will not show.

It would appear it is relative to?

I noticed you have not had the respect to answer one question, but place yourself on some pedestal where you "announce" your judgment from proclaiming the actions and thoughts of others. Ya know, in my book, the above line makes you a hypocrite. Could be just me, but I really do not think so. You do not seem to have an awful lot of maturity, have you been pursing this phenomena for long? You seem to be profoundly incorrect with all of your assertions placed forth to date.

Edited by psyche101

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Glad to see the fan club grows :D

Very shrewd how you did that!! Seriously, congrats :clap: I think I have made my point in this topic; whether you believe in a UF0 cover up and all of that, there is a lot of highly circumstantial evidence to support this theory. The more one looks into the official status-quo about alien life and the facts surrounding known incidents that cannot be explained away, the more you see there is more to the story than the official version given to the public. If you disagree, fine. It's hard to ignore the obvious but some people would rather do that than to admit more is going on. And just FYI, just because you snorkeled does not make you an expert in marine biology, although that's a funny deflection. The fact is that Edgar Mitchell and Gordon Cooper have both went on record as saying they believe in ET life and one must assume they have been witness to things to convince them of that. As have Jesse Marcel, J. Allen Hynek, Philip Corso, and countless others. As I've previously stated, one or two people claiming this may be coincidental and qualified as crazy people telling outrageous stories. Over the last 40-50 years alone there has been a wealth of material on the topic and to ignore all of that is crazy. Again, dealing with mindsets that oppose is a tricky topic. People on this forum may consider me a crazy conspiracy theorist and I consider people who ignore the obvious crazy. I guess at this point it is beating a dead horse here and we must agree to disagree.

Fan Club, LOL, how about the presented facts that refute your rather wild claim? Do you honestly think that has nothing to do with this situation?

I believe in ET too, I just think the stories about ET being here are pretty silly for the larger part, and completely unsupported as a whole.

If the last 40-50 years have imparted a wealth of knowledge, can you explain why this forum exists, and why you cannot produce actual proof, just hearsay?

I do not think you are a crazy conspiracy theorist, they make even less sense, I think you are very uninformed, and refuse to let your preferred conclusion go. Facts are something you would rather avoid when a good tabloid is handy. I think you like exciting news. You would not be alone, but for sure, your reality comes from Sci Fi Pop Culture. Rather than run the path beat by the Sagans the Drakes and the Hawking's, you choose the path set out by the Friedmans, the Lazar's and the Rudiak's. That is your choice, because you made a poor one, do not expect others to make the same mistake, or get upset when they refuse to follow you into that pit. If you feel it has anything to offer, at all, then speak up, show us what has you convinced, because for the life of me, I cannot see what you find attractive about that tripe. Not to mention it seems rather dated.

Edited by psyche101

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