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OverSword

US drones bombing Africa from UK

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Posted (edited)

How do my British comrades feel about this?

From the article:

An RAF base in Britain is being used by America in its controversial drone warfare campaign, it was claimed last night.

Documents seen by The Mail on Sunday reveal that the United States has established a drone ‘operations centre’ in the heart of the Lincolnshire countryside which could be used to co-ordinate attacks in the Middle East and Africa.

Last night, the revelation sparked claims of British complicity in the US Airforce (USAF) assassination programme which is being investigated by the United Nations.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2290842/US-Drones-bombing-Africa-operated-RAF-bases-heart-Lincolnshire-countryside.html

Edited by OverSword
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Go get 'em, USAF!

(lol)

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Drones will be remembered in history as the most indiscriminate weapon since the landmine. The sooner we realize this the better.

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I think you'll find the REALITY is that this isn't going to happen ..... it's very definitely on 'hold'. If you read the article carefully I think you'll find it's just scaremongering regarding what may happen. The last article I read about this, some weeks ago now, showed there was so much opposition to it that in fact it's 'dead in the water'.

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Drones will be remembered in history as the most indiscriminate weapon since the landmine. The sooner we realize this the better.

IMO they're going to be the "machine gun of the 21st century", think about the effect the machine gun had on warfare, it was a radical idea that forced a seachange in the way wars were fought. Drones will do exactly that.

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Drones, the way we are using them, in my opinion, are a method of fighting a war with no clear goals leading to victory.

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Drones, the way we are using them, in my opinion, are a method of fighting a war with no clear goals leading to victory.

drones are remote controlled air vehicals with targetable weapons .

remote= a few hundred feet away or half the planet away .

frankly speaking , the greatest danger a drone presents , is to the very wealthy , and heads of states if the technology becomes common place . it is purely offensive , and has not deffensive applications.

defensive weapon = a weapon that is known by the target ,WHEN IN LEATHAL RANGE .

offensive weapon = a weapon that can be used with in lethal range , and unknown to its target .

assualt weapon = a weapon suited for room to room , close quarter combat ... and ... the assault on fortress or compounds.

a deer rifle with a 3-9x 40mm scope is an offensive weapon.

a 12 gauge pump shot gun , w/ oo buck shot is an assault weapon.

a colt .45acp is a deffensive weapon .

a drone is clearly a offensive weapon , your first indication of its presents is sudden death of a single target or distruction in a feild of effect .

the operator is never required to be placed in danger , so counter measures must stop the attacker with greater damage to the control of the device than is needed to continue the attack ...or... fear does not work .

unlike a atomic bomb , which is feild of effect damage , a drone is inexpensive , and CAN BE single target specific.

it is the perfect asssination weapon ...

little wonder the rich and powerful want this thing to go away .

practicaly speaking, drones ; ground , air and stealth ... are nearly a given for the future .

frankly speaking , they are the military command and control head shot , and a decentralized command and control system will be the only answer when the drone is fully understood and used for best effect .

it is the answer to presidents and kings ... and when fully understood , puts a very high price on getting wealth and powerful at any cost .

the reply to fraud can now be a drone strike

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First ive heard of it, Don't think its true though

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Posted (edited)

Drones, the way we are using them, in my opinion, are a method of fighting a war with no clear goals leading to victory.

They seem to be used to assassinate leaders who otherwise would be untouchable without a much greater use of more indiscriminate force. It would require special ops teams and aircraft to find, fix and kill these people. Losses of troops would occur. I think of drones as they are being used in Afghanistan as perfectly sane and rational in the context of trying to bleed these murderers into submission.

ETA: I'm not sure why a control center in the UK is necessary?

Edited by and then
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ETA: I'm not sure why a control center in the UK is necessary?

Complicity. They want to share the stink of 'bad guy' ....... someone to share the blame; someone to make them look less bad.

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Posted (edited)

ETA: I'm not sure why a control center in the UK is necessary?

Operating range for the controllers, at a guess.

Edited by Tiggs
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Anyhow ........ wasn't there some mention of US drones being used against US citizens? Maybe that's why they want a base over here :whistle:

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I think its a bad idea using a drone in circumstances other than war.

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I think its a bad idea using a drone in circumstances other than war.

I think it really depends on what type of drone is being used and what it is being used for. If it is a surveillance drone, I can see where those can be used in circumstances other then war and be beneficial, like hostage situations, trying to find escaped convicts, and other similar situation. Even drones made for combat could arguably be used beneficially to an extent. The drones that are armed with missiles and bombs can only really be used in war, but other combat drones could potentially be used. It wouldn't be exceedingly difficult to attach a high power rifle to a quad rotor and use it in a hostage situation by providing an accurate shot from unexpected angles, but that is only a theoretical application where a theoretical combat drone could be used to a situation other then war.

Drones are really a multipurpose tool with many practical applications in all areas of life.

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Drones have feelings too.

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Drones have feelings too.

I guess that's the 21 st century version of "God bless Dow chemical corporation and Napalm"
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Drones will be remembered in history as the most indiscriminate weapon since the landmine. The sooner we realize this the better.

When the Germans launched V1 and V2 rockets against England they hadnt a clue where they were going to land, Drones are guided but I dont think that they would have the fuel capacity to get to Africa or the middle east from U.K

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Operating range for the controllers, at a guess.

Exactly... the Predator later developed into the Reaper, again later developed into the Avenger UAV do not have intercontinental capabilities (c1900Kms range) so they need to be based quite close to the action, however, the UK is not close enough to ensure successful missions.

In contrast: The UK's Taranis (first flight due next month) is a truly intercontinental UAV IS designed to operate in an intercontinental theatre of operations.

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Posted (edited)

I'm guessing that they are remotely piloted from bases in Africa for take-offs and landings only, like they are in the mid-east. It cuts down on lag time. But the pilot and the chain of command giving the kill order will be based in the UK.

Edited by OverSword

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Posted (edited)

I'm guessing that they are remotely piloted from bases in Africa for take-offs and landings only, like they are in the mid-east. It cuts down on lag time. But the pilot and the chain of command giving the kill order will be based in the UK.

Possible, but I think it more likely that the Pilot will be based in Washington MGS Command or the Pentagon MGS Command. Take off and landings will also be controlled from the USA (although their autonomous systems are quite capable of performing these tasks independent of Pilot input). The time lag is miniscule and is not a factor, it only becomes a factor if the Downlink or Uplink is compromised from the remote MGS. There are always at least 2 MGS involved in these operations to mitigate for this failure mode. The aircraft, as you say, will be based very much closer to the Operational area.

Edited by keithisco

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When the Germans launched V1 and V2 rockets against England they hadnt a clue where they were going to land, Drones are guided but I dont think that they would have the fuel capacity to get to Africa or the middle east from U.K

The differance being that V1 & 2's were targeted at civilians. Drones are not, but have resulted in the deaths of thousands due to misidentification. Thats what happens when you make life and death decisions half a world away using only grainy video feed as your evidence. Thats why weddings, funerals and schools have been hit by drone strike (often in countries the west is not at war with).

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The differance being that V1 & 2's were targeted at civilians. Drones are not, but have resulted in the deaths of thousands due to misidentification. Thats what happens when you make life and death decisions half a world away using only grainy video feed as your evidence. Thats why weddings, funerals and schools have been hit by drone strike (often in countries the west is not at war with).

I dispute your suggestion that "thousands" have been unintentionally killed, I would suggest that it is perhaps dozens of non coms that have been killed (this is still too high of course). Not entirely sure why you say the video feed is grainy, it most certainly is not. What it is probably down to is lack of Situational Awareness by the time that the Command to release is given. I have long proposed that Binocular video feeds be standard in Attack Drones to enable a depth of visual field to give a far more accurate target field.

The drones themselves DO have laser targetting capabilities, but only carry (at most) 4 Hellcat Missiles and I suspect that all four are released at the target on Command - this will leave a very large sphere of destruction.

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I dispute your suggestion that "thousands" have been unintentionally killed, I would suggest that it is perhaps dozens of non coms that have been killed (this is still too high of course).

That is a little naive. There were dozens killed at wedding from just one strike a few years back.

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I dispute your suggestion that "thousands" have been unintentionally killed, I would suggest that it is perhaps dozens of non coms that have been killed (this is still too high of course). Not entirely sure why you say the video feed is grainy, it most certainly is not. What it is probably down to is lack of Situational Awareness by the time that the Command to release is given. I have long proposed that Binocular video feeds be standard in Attack Drones to enable a depth of visual field to give a far more accurate target field.

The drones themselves DO have laser targetting capabilities, but only carry (at most) 4 Hellcat Missiles and I suspect that all four are released at the target on Command - this will leave a very large sphere of destruction.

In pakistan alone (a country that no nation is at war with) drone strikes have killed between 2 and 4 thousand people. Are they all insergents? The pakistan authorities disagree

However, Pakistan's Interior Minister Rehman Malik said, "drone missiles cause collateral damage. A few militants are killed, but the majority of victims are innocent citizens."[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan

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In pakistan alone (a country that no nation is at war with) drone strikes have killed between 2 and 4 thousand people. Are they all insergents? The pakistan authorities disagree

[/size]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan

You have based your figures on Wiki, when you look into the references supplied you soon find that they are all VERY dubious sources and contain NO HARD DATA - just assumptions.

In the same vein - you have made assumptions about the video quality from drones as if decisions are made based on some "B" Movie quality... they are not. It is very clear to the Pilot just what he is seeing, he has NO Field Depth however and the final decision ito release weapons is outside of his sphere of influence.

The real problem here lies with the Chain of Command, with the final authority to release weapons.

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