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Neanderthals' large eyes 'caused their demise

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the only reason they survived so long was that they made cute babies .... dem big eyes 'n all

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Breaking news...

Neanderthals died out due to their inability to use UM.

True-look at all the good it's us!

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Now it seems the Neanderthals may have all been extinct several thousand years before Cro-Magnon even entered Europe. Whoops! There goes into dust a whole bunch of encounter fantasies.

Nah, there was a period of 5,000 years or more in which both were present in Europe. You're probably referring to the recent article about re-dating Iberian remains, but that was specific to Iberia and not elsewhere in Europe.

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They may have died out because they couldn't reproduce faster than their death rate. Animals that produce large litters do so because the odds of the offspring surviving to breeding age are slimmer.

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Nah, there was a period of 5,000 years or more in which both were present in Europe. You're probably referring to the recent article about re-dating Iberian remains, but that was specific to Iberia and not elsewhere in Europe.

Yes I am referring to the re-dating of the Iberian remains. Since that is considered their last holdout in Europe, it means they were long gone.

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Ahh is that sooo.... Some asians especially the chinese may live longer than any other human species.

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The Chinese are the same species as the rest of us; Neanderthal was a different species.

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While I, on the other hand is a 'genus' in my own right ........

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Nope it was now different. Lets go ask the scientists.

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Yes I am referring to the re-dating of the Iberian remains. Since that is considered their last holdout in Europe, it means they were long gone.

The idea that Iberia was a holdout is outdated. The Vindija cave site (Croatia) has Neanderthal remains dating c. 32-33kya, which is about the same age as the Iberian remains that were subjected to re-dating. And the Vindija date is actually after re-dating by the same method use for the Iberian remains, so it's definitely secure.

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If the neanderthals had big eyes, wouldn't they have been able to see the bunnys and have an advantage in hunting them?

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Posted (edited)

I think like so many, Professor Dunbar has just managed to get a little carried away. This might have been a factor, but I do not see it being the "determining" factor. More of a list of things that resulted in Sapiens eventually gaining the upper hand. All of this does not make much sense to me, Neanderthal had clothes, sewing them up would not cause demise, it just means Neanderthal man would hold his wrap together, Neanderthal man had clothing, social structure, and I do feel art probably contradicts this claim a bit. In the end, it was probably a million things, and whilst big eyes might possibly have been one factor, to claim it is a deciding factor is indeed putting the cart before the horse.

And having better hunting skills I would have though something of an advantage?

Edited by psyche101
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The idea that Iberia was a holdout is outdated. The Vindija cave site (Croatia) has Neanderthal remains dating c. 32-33kya, which is about the same age as the Iberian remains that were subjected to re-dating. And the Vindija date is actually after re-dating by the same method use for the Iberian remains, so it's definitely secure.

You may be right, but I haven't seen anything like that so I would appreciate a refrence.

I have to say there seems to be a romanticism connected with the idea of Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal connections -- that maybe they interpred or maybe the Cro-Magnons contributed to the extinction. As such there seems almost desperation to create stories of contact, when they may never have happened, or only at a distance. At any rate the romantic notions associated with this view of history make me skeptical.

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the Neanderthals were just tired of living, last I heard

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I understand they evolved a third eye.

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I understand they evolved a third eye.

And a third final front ear? ;)

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lets hope no one strays down the path of genitalia evolution

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I think it was a number of things climate change, competition, breeding, diseases and I don't think we will ever really figure out why unless we could time travel

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Posted (edited)

You may be right, but I haven't seen anything like that so I would appreciate a refrence.

I have to say there seems to be a romanticism connected with the idea of Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal connections -- that maybe they interpred or maybe the Cro-Magnons contributed to the extinction. As such there seems almost desperation to create stories of contact, when they may never have happened, or only at a distance. At any rate the romantic notions associated with this view of history make me skeptical.

Here's the paper for Vindija: http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC1334669/

The lead author here, Tom Higham, is a leading researcher in the use of the ultrafiltration technique at Oxford. He is also, I gather, the advisor of the lead author of the Iberian paper (Rachel Wood) and helped her with the study.

He has also aided in other datings, such as at Spy cave in Belgium, yielding dates for some of the Neanderthal remains at 38-36kya: http://www.sciencedi...047248410001648

The other side of the debate of modern human/neanderthal interaction in Europe is the earliest presence of modern humans, for which the ultrafiltration technique has also been applied. Higham et al. have applied it to a maxilla from Kent cave in England, which yielded a date of 44-41kya, the oldest yet for modern human remains in Europe:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22048314

Ultimately the paper on Iberian Neanderthal remains was merely meant to question the hypothesis that Iberia acted as a late refuge--instead we find that Neanderthals outside Iberia may have lasted just as long if not longer. Unfortunately the popular media employs journalists who are essentially uneducated on science to write about scientific articles, and in this example it resulted in stupid headlines about Neanderthals in general being extinct earlier than thought, instead of noting that the study only applied to Iberia.

Edited by Everdred

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The scientists have got it all wrong the neanderthals used to do a mass gathering hunts and one year they decided to hunt lemmings. :tu:

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Large Eyes?? I have (3) consonants for you: Al-ie-ens!

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Eyes too big for their bellies?

(You ever eat so much you can't move? I hate that. *sigh*)

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Eyes too big for their bellies?

(You ever eat so much you can't move? I hate that. *sigh*)

No you don't

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http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation of course, its called Rabbit starvation.

That's why you always carry twinkies...

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That's not because of species, I hear that is red rice yeast. Look it up its kind of interesting. Even though they eat tons of high cholesterol foods they have much lower numbers then the western world.

Ahh is that sooo.... Some asians especially the chinese may live longer than any other human species.

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