Characteristic's of a Terrorist.......

[Frank Merton]

All this revolutonary ferver. Wow. I wonder why I never see any sign of it when I visit the States. Maybe its just a few less than balanced people who post a lot?

[No Censorship]

All this revolutonary ferver. Wow. I wonder why I never see any sign of it when I visit the States. Maybe its just a few less than balanced people who post a lot?

All or most of the people in this thread, who see the need for change, want a peaceful revolution, not a violent one. Kowalski summarized it extremely well. It's a change of heart and mind that is best expressed at the voting booth. You don't need to be a "terrorist" (whatever that means these days) to see that we're accelerating in the wrong direction.

[Kowalski]

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Frankiln

Whenever a separation is made between liberty and justice, neither, in my opinion, is safe. -- Edmund Burke

[Frank Merton]

Those are nice enough quotes I suppose, but ignore reality. You might be careful with all the Burke quotes: someone may look him up.

The reality is a tradeoff between government and freedom. They make a law restricting the speed you can travel on the highway and requiring you to have a driver's license. Both are interferences with freedom but few would argue that something along those lines is needed.

The same applies to identifying terrorists, especially when there is present in the country a religious belief in the value of guns.

[Frank Merton]

Since I'm digging a hole here, let me dig it a little deeper. Was anything ever really changed by an election? You replace one political party in power with another, and eventually it swings back. It's really the same government with different actors with slightly different leanings, but overall trends continue.

[freetoroam]

According to that list 80% of the people out there would qualify.

Well looks like I would be on the list, and I am not religious, am hard core anti big brother and as for stockpiling food!!! wow, 1357 tins of baked beans ready for the end of the world should put me top of the list!

[Frank Merton]

You planning an extended stay in a cave eating baked beans?

[Kowalski]

Those are nice enough quotes I suppose, but ignore reality. You might be careful with all the Burke quotes: someone may look him up.

Um, what the heck is wrong with Edmund Burke?? Ever read his "Reflections on the Revolution in France"? He was a supporter of the American Revolution and he DID NOT support the French Revolution because of the bloodshed. It made him pretty unpopular among many people.

Winston Churchill, in "Consistency in Politics", wrote about Burke:

On the one hand [burke] is revealed as a foremost apostle of Liberty, on the other as the redoubtable champion of Authority. But a charge of political inconsistency applied to this life appears a mean and petty thing. History easily discerns the reasons and forces which actuated him, and the immense changes in the problems he was facing which evoked from the same profound mind and sincere spirit these entirely contrary manifestations. His soul revolted against tyranny, whether it appeared in the aspect of a domineering Monarch and a corrupt Court and Parliamentary system, or whether, mouthing the watch-words of a non-existent liberty, it towered up against him in the dictation of a brutal mob and wicked sect. No one can read the Burke of Liberty and the Burke of Authority without feeling that here was the same man pursuing the same ends, seeking the same ideals of society and Government, and defending them from assaults, now from one extreme, now from the other.

The same applies to identifying terrorists, especially when there is present in the country a religious belief in the value of guns

Yes, Frank, we all have altars full of guns and bullets, and every Sunday we bow before it....

(I'm being scarcastic, in case you don't know)

[Frank Merton]

As was I.

[Babe Ruth]

Since I'm digging a hole here, let me dig it a little deeper. Was anything ever really changed by an election? You replace one political party in power with another, and eventually it swings back. It's really the same government with different actors with slightly different leanings, but overall trends continue.

I like the candor Frank. You are digging yourself into a hole, just as Stellar has already done. Stellar claims that crowds are calling for armed revolution, but can name nobody, and nobody here claims to be advocating for it. So far, that hole is bigger than yours.

Nobody wants violence and bloodshed, but the history of mankind shows that they are part of life and the human condition.

Everybody I know just wishes that there was actually a difference between democrats and republicans. How simple things would be if there were a difference!

Most people would like it if the electoral system actually brought change, but that's a pretty idealistic situation.

Of the ballot box and the jury box, I think the latter can bring more change than the former.

[ancient astronaut]

They "Blanket Policy" like this, so they can do whatever they want, to whoever they want. Without question.

[AsteroidX]

I am proud to be on that list. That is a list of who is American.

[lightly]

People talk about terrorism as if it's something new .. it's older than civilization. Characteristics of a terrorist? A terrorist is any person who purposefully instills fear in another• .. instills fear in others to advance some agenda or accomplish some purpose• That's an old one.

As for revolution ... One of my dictionary's definitions: "• a dramatic and wide-reaching change in the way something works or is organized or in people's ideas about it"

That could pertain to changing the way our government works .. the ways in which it is organized.. and people's ideas about it. It might be possible to effect such changes non violently ? eh.. Probly not.. lol

[Kowalski]

People talk about terrorism as if it's something new .. it's older than civilization. Characteristics of a terrorist? A terrorist is any person who purposefully instills fear in another• .. instills fear in others to advance some agenda or accomplish some purpose• That's an old one.

My defintion of a terrorist is: Terrorism is the systematic use of terror, often violent, especially as a means of coercion.

I am NOT suggesting violence, and neither are many others. We don't WANT an armed revolution. BUT, if you push people into a corner, they will ACT. Look at the French Revolution and Russian Revolution. The Irish against British occupation, and the Scottish fought against the British. When, you push people down long enough, they get mad, and they fight back. MY way of fighting back is through petitions, writing and emailing our Congressmen and Senators, and voting.

[spayneuter]

Judging by that list, I would be classed as a terrorist (and I know for a FACT I am NO such thing), aswell as a lot of member's on this site also would be classed as a terrorist.......

IF the list is real, and they class people that believe in a new world order conspiracy, a terrorist, what make's all the non-believer's think that there is no such thing as a new world order ?

There are various sites with this info on them....

OMG. I see myself in 7 of the 10 criteria! But I don't want to be a terrorist!

[spayneuter]

According to that list 80% of the people out there would qualify.

I swear I'm harmless. I'm just an old lady with a cat sanctuary.

[spayneuter]

Laws are about to passed in the U.S. that would legally label people as terrorists if they surreptitiously videotape activities in slaughterhouses, or even if they donate to certain groups.

"(5) Specifies that any person, animal, or ecological terrorist

organization will be guilty of the crime of participating in or

supporting animal or ecological terrorism if he or she raises,

solicits, collects, or provides any person with material,

financial support, or other resources that will be used to

encourage, plan, prepare, carry out, publicize, promote, or aid

an act of animal or ecological terrorism or the concealment of or

an escape from an act of animal or ecological terrorism"

http://www.house.mo....pdf/HB2095I.pdf

Yup, I'm a terrorist, good thing I don't live in the U.S. anymore.

Oh-Oh I guess I am an animal rights terrorist. I donate money for animal rights.

[Kowalski]

I swear I'm harmless. I'm just an old lady with a cat sanctuary.

You could use them as "attack" cats, I suppose....

[Frank Merton]

Every now and then when I'm in the States and I'm with some who've had a few drinks to soften them up but not mushify them, I get challenged by how much better the US government is than the Vietnamese Communist "regime." (This doesn't happen in other countries).

The matter ultimately settles into some debate about some form of freedom. Usually it is free elections, since although Vietnam has elections they are symbolic. Americans in my experience are generally a lot less happy with their government than are Vietnamese with theirs. This is ironic, since Americans think they choose their government, and in fact they do, except that it is such a mass choice that no voice means anything, and mostly it is the party structures that choose the candidates, just as it happens in Vietnam. (I think the reason Americans tend to be unhappy is that they have much higher taxes and a lot more military involvement around the world, so that both sides of the spectrum have things to be unhappy with).

The other forms of freedom -- of speech and religion and so on are usually based on misinformation about the situation today in Vietnam. The same applies to economic freedoms. The police in Vietnam are much more powerful and you don't have juries, you have tribunals, and they are not separate but part of the government. As a result law enforcement is faster and more efficient, but I don't think less fair.

[Jackofalltrades]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXqog3txQUs

[freetoroam]

You planning an extended stay in a cave eating baked beans?

Yep, as long as it has air conditioning.

[No Censorship]

Well looks like I would be on the list, and I am not religious, am hard core anti big brother and as for stockpiling food!!! wow, 1357 tins of baked beans ready for the end of the world should put me top of the list!

Let's hope that we never have to share a bunker. With that many cans of baked beans, be sure to buy plenty of gas masks.

[Frank Merton]

I've been thinking about this stockpiling bit and what I would stockpile. I guess water and rice and propane (we cook with propane here). Thing is we already effectively stockpile those as it is, as we buy bulk.

On second thought, with things the way they are, if it came to that, I think maybe I would rather die. Sorry to be down but let younger healthier people do the surviving.

[Kowalski]

Let's hope that we never have to share a bunker. With that many cans of baked beans, be sure to buy plenty of gas masks.

Actually a gas mask doesn't do anything against somebody with a bad case of gas...

I've been thinking about this stockpiling bit and what I would stockpile. I guess water and rice and propane (we cook with propane here). Thing is we already effectively stockpile those as it is, as we buy bulk.

On second thought, with things the way they are, if it came to that, I think maybe I would rather die. Sorry to be down but let younger healthier people do the surviving.

Check out a website that I like: http://simple-green-frugal-co-op.blogspot.com/2009/01/stockpiling-basics.html

Canning is great a cheap way of stockpiling. I can many of my vegetables from my garden (A lot of times people give me bags full of green tomatoes, tomatoes, squash, okra, and all kinds of stuff). I usually make tomato sauce or marinara sauce and can it. Best thing is it's good for a VERY long time.

Check out: http://www.freshpreserving.com/home.aspx

And: http://www.pickyourown.org/allaboutcanning.htm

[Frank Merton]

There was a time not long ago when you could hear cocks crowing in the morning here in Ho Chi Minh City (a city of maybe nine million). They were for fighting and people bred them. Then came bird flu and a few of those breeders died from contact with chickens. The sound is gone.

This is I think the fear here -- disease that there is no treatment for and that spreads readily from person to person. Everyone here knows all about TB and malaria and dengue and polio and so on. They are gone now but not gone from memory. (Well dengue is still all too much around, but the mosquito campaigns keep it in the countryside.) Now, besides heart disease and diabetes, the big killer is liver cancer from chronic hepatitis B infection, and in a generation that will be gone.

When pandemic comes no one is spared, no matter how well you have prepared, no matter how much food and so on you have in your cave, it finds you. Animals or insects or even the air itself get you, if not other people seeking the same refuge. If it happens, it will probably be some form of influenza, but it could be a return of an old enemy in new anti-biotic resistant form, or something else. There are plenty of possibilities.