I Am

[Jor-el]

Is that how literalists interpret this -- okay. Interesting. You don't mention the scholarly view that it comes from somewhat less than perfect combination of stories derived from varying sources. Progressive revelation seems to be a way to handle all sorts of rough edges.

I am curious, how do scholars who do not believe in the concept of a God, explain God?

Simply put, they don't, they avoid him like the plague and they will use whatever logic they can, to get around God or his existence.

These are the people we credit with knowing the truth?

[Mr Walker]

"I am" is one of our first identifying statements. eg. I am paul. I am a boy. I am 2 years old. etc. It soon becomes " and its all about me."

The basic answer lies in the nature of human psychology and human sapience, where our self identity grows self awareness within an individual and isolated mind. 'The I inside" becomes dominant and supremely imortant to us especially as children and adolescents.

This is why it is used so much in pop culture, and in advertising. Appealing to the I, especially among the young market with a lot of disposable and discretionary money to spend, is a clever psychological, and very conscious and deliberate, ploy by marketers and advertisers, as well as writers and lyricists for the young.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Mr Walker

[Frank Merton]

I am curious, how do scholars who do not believe in the concept of a God, explain God?

Simply put, they don't, they avoid him like the plague and they will use whatever logic they can, to get around God or his existence.

These are the people we credit with knowing the truth?

What is there to explain except that human beings are subject to all sorts of delusionary thinking?

[Mr Walker]

What is there to explain except that human beings are subject to all sorts of delusionary thinking?

So in your opinion, all manifestaions of god are delusionary? Just as one question, why should god be a delusionary experience in a person's life when everything else they experience is quite real? How come they sense and perceive everything else perfectly well at a functional level, but when they encounter god, it is suddenly an unreal and delusionary experience?

[Gummug]

That raises a question I will throw out to for the real Bible scholars about: Moses asked for God's name, which we know was "Jehovah" (Yaweh or something like that but in English it's Jehovah). Why didn't God just answer the question instead of all that "I am" business? And what is it all about anyway?

I'm not really a Biblical scholar, but my understanding is that Jehovah comes from Yahweh. The Y became a J through transliteration. The Jews felt that Yahweh was too holy to pronounce, so they changed the vowels from Yahweh to Yehowah, which became Jehovah. Yahweh (or an older version, like Yihyeh or something) means "I am". This is to the best of my understanding anyway. I hope this helps.

eta: So for clarity, when God answered, "I am that I am" (in Hebrew I think it's something like "Yihyeh asher yihyeh") he was saying "Jehovah", it just got corrupted.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Gummug

[Himalayan Mystic]

I don't

quite get

exactly

what

you

are

trying to

say

right

here.

Nor

do I

quite

have

the

energy

to go

through

all of

those

links.

...

Oh

well

...

[ellapenella]

I'm sharing how "I AM" is used in its most ancient form, at least Ancient as can be transmitted through writing. Perhaps it existed before this. I wouldn't necessarily agree with such, but it might exist. But since the Hebrew scriptures are amongst the oldest existing writings we have (not the oldest, but amongst the oldest) then that is what we have to work with. Good luck in trying to prove an earlier incarnation of "I AM" through other sources.

I'm sharing how "I AM" is used in its most ancient form, at least Ancient as can be transmitted through writing. Perhaps it existed before this. I wouldn't necessarily agree with such, but it might exist. But since the Hebrew scriptures are amongst the oldest existing writings we have (not the oldest, but amongst the oldest) then that is what we have to work with. Good luck in trying to prove an earlier incarnation of "I AM" through other sources.

Have you ever taken a look at the Papyrus of Ani ? Don't forget that Moses lived and studied with the Egyptians by which he also has taken from . I sort of have this feeling that he revised from their teachings , b.t.w my favorite I Am statements are those spoken of by Jesus or Yeshua .

What hebrew writings are you referring to , from what books ? Have you seen the talmud? I am no fan of that book . It is one of the most hateful books i have ever seen against humanity which confuses me when I understand that the I Am you mention and hebrew writing must refer back to moses which by whom the talmud is said to have been passed down to the jews by word of mouth where as they have the right to steal, lie,kill, and rob from anyone who is not of their race or religion, so I'm a bit confused about moses these days.I AM .....also not a fan of the oldest ancient hebrew teachings which is the talmud.

[+Paranoid Android]

Have you ever taken a look at the Papyrus of Ani ? Don't forget that Moses lived and studied with the Egyptians by which he also has taken from . I sort of have this feeling that he revised from their teachings , b.t.w my favorite I Am statements are those spoken of by Jesus or Yeshua .

What hebrew writings are you referring to , from what books ? Have you seen the talmud? I am no fan of that book . It is one of the most hateful books i have ever seen against humanity which confuses me when I understand that the I Am you mention and hebrew writing must refer back to moses which by whom the talmud is said to have been passed down to the jews by word of mouth where as they have the right to steal, lie,kill, and rob from anyone who is not of their race or religion, so I'm a bit confused about moses these days.I AM .....also not a fan of the oldest ancient hebrew teachings which is the talmud.

The Talmud is not the oldest Hebrew text. The Talmud consists of the Mishnah (200AD) and the Gemara (500AD). Compare that to the Tanakh, which is a collection of works dating at least 500 years before Jesus. The Book of Exodus was most likely written in the 6th Century BC, and that is where I get the information on "I AM".

[Zaphod222]

Interregio sum, ergo sum.

[ellapenella]

The Talmud is not the oldest Hebrew text. The Talmud consists of the Mishnah (200AD) and the Gemara (500AD). Compare that to the Tanakh, which is a collection of works dating at least 500 years before Jesus. The Book of Exodus was most likely written in the 6th Century BC, and that is where I get the information on "I AM".

Yes , the talmud consist of oral teachings , as did most teachings .I think it wasn't until like 5 centuries A.D when the jews actually wrote the teachings , the traditions known within the talmud which consist of many hebrew books are ancient to the jews.They're very old , they just were not written down but taught , it was in their hearts , and strongly believed.

I'm not feeling the same about Moses and what little people have been given to think of him.I've always questioned things pertaining to his actions,and, instructions from what little was given to know of him . until now when the talmud revealed some things ..

I don't trust everything we were told to believe about things , such as the exodus . I don't even know for certain if the jews were even slaves in Egypt amongst other things. I'm almost certain that he most likely took the I Am reference from what he learned in the royal house he was raised up in the Egyptian religion.. I Am most likely can be traced back to the teachings in Egypt, where Moses was amongst the elite.

Honestly speaking , I find it difficult in my heart to accept that God would reveal God to Moses on such a personal level, knowing what Moses did and how he instructed his followers to kill anyone they came upon, doesn't feel like someone very Holy or Godly to me.But what do i know/?

[Frank Merton]

You know there are quite a few scholars who don't think any of the OT was written until after the Babylonian-Persian exodus, by the priests returning to reestablish Judaism under Persian hegemony. They may have had some earlier-written documents that they drew from but almost all of the OT dates from much later than people think.

The implication is that almost all of the OT is myth -- not just Moses and Canaan and all that but also David and even events of the late Judaic kindgom.

There is a huge problem dealing with both Judaism and Christianity -- myths are believed to this day and people go looking for evidence to support them and ignore abundant evidence to the contrary. Real scholars who have no axe to grind get ground up in this and decide to study Hittites instead.

[ellapenella]

I'm very curious as to just how close stories are of Judaism - Christianty and Egyptian myths. They're was to close ,as in exactly identical. Even the ten commandments were in Egypt first .

There's a part in the bible where Jesus instructed the 12 telling them to look for a man pouring water and for them to go into the house of that man. I thought that was an odd thing at the time when i first read that, but the house of aquarius is symbolized of a man pouring water , and, in mentioning this I guess i'm trying to say that astrotheology does seem to make sense to me about a lot of things.

[MasterFlint]

It means you will know me by my actions... God is saying you will know me by my works.... You will see the 10 plagues from the wrath of God and know that IAM God! You will see my mercy and forgiveness and know that IAM God!

Im sure when Jesus said it he also meant to get across that he simply WAS and always will be, that he was NOT created, that he just exists. God IS, he is I AM, he wasn't created nor is his purpose or will dependent on any other. He is fulfilled in himself, unlike all his creations that are only fulfilled in Him....

[Orcseeker]

Will.I.Am produces cancer for the ears. If he is God or God is like that. I think I'll stick to Hell.

[markprice]

Will.I.Am produces cancer for the ears. If he is God or God is like that. I think I'll stick to Hell.

Is that like the opposite of God to God as Paracelsus used to say? Can you see him down there anywhere? I commend what I have written according to the truth of God to God...

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

"iam" - "i am"

what do they mean to u?

" i am what i am"

Hi Kais_1,

Since Jesus Christ is my savior, literally, I MUST accept the story of Jesus, His "monogenes" reality [according to the findings of Michael S. Heiser]...and my first-hand experience. On the other hand, "Awakening" [the way Bart Marshall explains it] has a different definition to "I am." "Awakening," however, is but a small fraction of the story of "true" freedom. Yes, "I am" has that "freedom" connotation to it. It's a profound statement, no doubt.

Peace.

Edited April 18, 2013 by braveone2u

[Timothy]

This thread should be sitting in the naughty corner wearing the dunces cap!

Eminem: 'I am whatever you say I am' - Ooooooh that derails the concept!

[MasterFlint]

You know there are quite a few scholars who don't think any of the OT was written until after the Babylonian-Persian exodus, by the priests returning to reestablish Judaism under Persian hegemony. They may have had some earlier-written documents that they drew from but almost all of the OT dates from much later than people think.

The implication is that almost all of the OT is myth -- not just Moses and Canaan and all that but also David and even events of the late Judaic kindgom.

There is a huge problem dealing with both Judaism and Christianity -- myths are believed to this day and people go looking for evidence to support them and ignore abundant evidence to the contrary. Real scholars who have no axe to grind get ground up in this and decide to study Hittites instead.

There are EGYPTIAN Writings/tablets that give the exact same 10 plague account given in Exodus!!! It wasn't a myth, it's historical fact backed up by the civilization demonized in Exodus as the bad guys...

And I think the city of Jerusalem that still stands today speaks for itself as far as the legitimacy of it's history.... I don't think any historian or scholar would argue that the histories of the Kings of Israel and Judah given in the Bible aren't historical. Some people who don't believe in God might say the histories were written through religious eyes and the good or bad fortunes of a particular King being based on how they acted towards God is a myth, but no one would historically argue that King David and Soloman and the others that followed were myths.... The existence of the Israelites is backed up by the histories of all the other nations of the region all the way up to the greeks and romans...

Have you ever taken a look at the Papyrus of Ani ? Don't forget that Moses lived and studied with the Egyptians by which he also has taken from . I sort of have this feeling that he revised from their teachings , b.t.w my favorite I Am statements are those spoken of by Jesus or Yeshua .

What hebrew writings are you referring to , from what books ? Have you seen the talmud? I am no fan of that book . It is one of the most hateful books i have ever seen against humanity which confuses me when I understand that the I Am you mention and hebrew writing must refer back to moses which by whom the talmud is said to have been passed down to the jews by word of mouth where as they have the right to steal, lie,kill, and rob from anyone who is not of their race or religion, so I'm a bit confused about moses these days.I AM .....also not a fan of the oldest ancient hebrew teachings which is the talmud.

What part of the Talmud says it's alright to steal, lie, kill, and rob people of other races or religions????

[WaknakiTohbi]

The mystery of I am, for the non Hebrew speaker.

We tend to speak of God as a noun, and then struggle to explain how a static and transcendent God could fashion an intrinsically dynamic and creative universe. The problem, however, is illusory and of our own making.

God is a verb

The Torah identifies God as YHVH

From the Hebrew verb h-v-h "to be"

YHVH is the future imperfect form of the Hebrew verb "to be". Imperfect meaning never ending and ever happening. God is the is-ing of reality: not so much the Creator of the universe but the creativity in, through, and by which the universe happens.

Take this understanding and apply it to Moses at the Burning Bush where, when asked to define God, God replies, Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh (Exodus 3:14): not the static "I am that I am" of so many English translations, but the dynamic " I will become what I will become"

In this sense, God is not a static being but a dynamic becoming. God is not the Unmoved Mover but the Ever-moving mover.

So to sum it all up: "I am" is the bastardization of the Hebrew name of God.