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OverSword

N. Korea fires 2 short range missiles

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from the article:

SEOUL – North Korea has tested short-range missiles in the Sea of Japan (known as the East Sea in Korea), in an apparent attempt to counter-act joint U.S.-South Korean military exercises, South Korean news agency Yonhap reported.

“North Korea test-launched a short-range missile in the East Sea [sea of Japan] this afternoon, amid the ongoing security crisis on the Korean peninsula following Pyongyang’s third nuclear test last month,” Yonhap news said.

The source, Yonhap said, was a military source within the South Korean government. The North Korean military launched two KN-02 short-range missiles into international waters, the report said.

http://countdowntozerotime.org/2013/03/15/breaking-north-korea-launches-short-range-missiles-on-east-coast/

kim_jong_il_team_america1.jpg

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So, what's going to happen with this? Is the rest of the world going to wait until they actually hurt someone, or what?

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They'll keep it up until there is a war. Which I think the north wants. They want the south rejoined with them on their terms. Don't think the south is going to go for it.

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My friend has concerns that if there IS a war, China will join N Korea's side. I thought China was getting tired of their **** too. No?

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"So, what's going to happen with this? Is the rest of the world going to wait until they actually hurt someone, or what?" RV

The U.S. fought a very bloody War there after WWII. Not only it it technically still on, KJU has recently announced he's canceled the armistice (in reaction to increased sanctions, targeting KJU's politburo).

Not easy to decypher KJU's mixed messages.

Dennis Rodman recently visited, and reports KJU says he doesn't want war w/ Obama.

Perhaps KJU's sabre-rattling is to persuade his politburo not to stage a palace coup d’état, based upon KJU's youth, or passivity.

But NK's a basket case. Millions of NK's have already starved to death. A coup d’état might rock the boat too much.

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My friend has concerns that if there IS a war, China will join N Korea's side. I thought China was getting tired of their **** too. No?

I think it more likely that China would invade North Korea themselves and put in a government that's a touch more sane.

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PS

~54,246 U.S. military died in the Korean War

In this global economic climate, resuming the Korean War lacks attractiveness.

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Posted (edited)

So, what's going to happen with this? Is the rest of the world going to wait until they actually hurt someone, or what?

Well the thing is, if a big bully told you what to do..... Would you obey them or would you be really annoyed?

Cause the US keeps putting sanctions on them, the US puts sanctions on Iran as well. Do you know what thta does to the innocent people of those coun tries? People starve, their money becomes useless and their living conditions suffer.

Do you expect these countries to just sit and take that? I sure as hell wouldn't. So when you read these stories in the western media, remember that it's our goverments fault in the first place, these countries are being pushed and pushed until they hit back. You back an animal into the corner and it will fight back.

But NK's a basket case. Millions of NK's have already starved to death. A coup d’état might rock the boat too much.

Yes that's what happens when a big bully country puts sanctions on another country.

Edited by Coffey
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PS

"I think it more likely that China would invade North Korea themselves and put in a government that's a touch more sane." C

There's some precedent for it I suppose. China's already annexed Tibet.

But the North Koreans aren't Chinese. They're Korean; blood kin to the South Koreans.

China's governance of NK might be an improvement, for the U.S., particularly if China dismantled the DMZ; and turned it into a more normal border.

- I'm not sure that's what would happen.

- But if it did, I'm not sure South Korea would like it; not sure they'd tolerate it. Problem there is, the U.S. is bound by treaty to South Korea.

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PS

"Millions of NK's have already starved to death. A coup d’état might rock the boat too much." sear

"Yes that's what happens when a big bully country puts sanctions on another country." AA

There's no denying U.S. / U.N. sanctions.

But NK is intrinsically self-insufficient. North Korea doesn't send U.S. any food. But we're not starving.

Starvation is such a severe chronic problem in NK that according to Chris Hitchens, the NK's average about 4" shorter in stature than their SK brethren.

Horrifficly, it's not only their stature that's stunted. They're mentally under-developed as well.

For some insight into just how severe a totalitarian Hell hole NK is: check out North Korean prison camp #14 escapee Shin Dong-hyuk

It's a story stranger than fiction.

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PS

~54,246 U.S. military died in the Korean War

In this global economic climate, resuming the Korean War lacks attractiveness.

So tell me then, just why do you think the US is pulling out of Afghanistan years earlier than scheduled?

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"why do you think the US is pulling out of Afghanistan years earlier than scheduled?" Tk

a) What schedule?

B) Obama terminated the Iraq War on the Bush administration's timetable, and substantially as the Bush administration described.

c) The Afghanistan War is reported to be the longest in U.S. history. The Bush administration diddled in Afghanistan, failing to begin essential training, so the Afghanistan government forces could take over for U.S. military troops.

So Obama's stuck playing catch-up. It's not easy to make a modern soldier from an illiterate Afghani peasant. Our commanders are doing the best they can.

d) We want out. It costs about a $million per year per U.S. troop to occupy Afghanistan. And what do we get for it?

e) After our own trained Afghanis started murdering our troops, there was increased domestic U.S. call to speed up the withdrawal timetable. Obama's conservative enough to resist that.

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I love that idea -- let the Chinese go in there and put them out of their misery. At this point I don't see anyone objecting, not even (or maybe not especially the S. Koreans). They would be spared the threat and not have to take on a huge humanitarian mess.

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I love that idea -- let the Chinese go in there and put them out of their misery. At this point I don't see anyone objecting, not even (or maybe not especially the S. Koreans). They would be spared the threat and not have to take on a huge humanitarian mess.

But would they do it? Does China feel threatened by them? I think N Korea is just threatening everyone else.

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But would they do it? Does China feel threatened by them? I think N Korea is just threatening everyone else.

Just ask yourself this then. Does China want the US military on thier border? Probably not so I would guess they would rather take control in NK than let the US lead the charge.
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Just ask yourself this then. Does China want the US military on thier border? Probably not so I would guess they would rather take control in NK than let the US lead the charge.

Alright, makes sense. The whole thing does scare me. Don't want war and I don't want anyone getting nuked. At the same time, I feel bad for the N Korean people, if reports are true that they are starving and brainwashed.

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"Does China want the US military on thier border?" OS

For those that didn't connect the dot,

OS rightly observes that a South Korean conquest of NK, might well mean U.S. troops directly on China's border.

I'd like to think the U.S. could diplomatically negotiate in private, saying that if China will sign a non-aggression pact with reunified Korea (under political control of the former South) U.S. troops will be withdrawn.

"... today there are over 320,000 [u.S.] Army troops alone, deployed in 120 countries overseas. That's more than 60% of the entire [u.S.] Army." NBC-TV Nightly News March 9, '04.

That's too many!

The U.S. spends more on military than all other (~28?) NATO nations combined.

That's too much!

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The thing worrries me is that the media and other countries are underestimating a country with Nuclear weapons, sure about everyone else is poor. But I fear North Korea is going to fight back hard and they would be laughing. I'd say do something now before its too late. Not many of you will agree with me but a nuclear war is just around the corner

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North Korea doesn't send U.S. any food. But we're not starving.

That doesn't make sense tot he sanctions.

NK has no money for harvesting/producing food in it's own country due to the sanctions. The US would suffer like most countries from sanctions if the dollar was affected, making it worthless. The US imports a lot and exports labour which makes the dollar stronger.

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"I'd say do something now before its too late." RN

It may already be too late. Their delivery system may not be too good. But they've already detonated more than one warhead; 3 if I recall correctly.

Perhaps mutual assured destruction (MAD) will keep us safe for now.

If NK uses a nuke in aggression against a U.S. or NATO ally, Pyongyang will be a smoldering crator.

"NK has no money for harvesting/producing food in it's own country " AA

Agreed.

"due to the sanctions." AA

So you say.

I'd want to review your source material before I regard that as fact.

Unquestionably the sanctions have hurt.

But SK, and the U.S. have provided NK food aid before.

You think China wouldn't have helped NK to agricultural self-sufficiency, if it were within the realm of practicality? NK is deeply, profoundly dysfunctional.

"The US would suffer like most countries from sanctions" AA

Agreed. Smoot-Hawley & all that.

But would it induce famine in America? I kind of doubt it. Obesity is a problem among our poor! I know of no historic precedent for that.

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clarification / apology:

I misattributed.

Wrong: "AA" = Alien Abducter

The correct attribute is Coffey

Please forgive my error.

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per RN's link:

The Pentagon is expected to announce plans to boost missile defences on the US West Coast to counter the threat from North Korea.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21807067

CBS-TV 60 Minutes broadcast a segment on Israel's "Iron Dome" missile defense.

Impressive.

IIRC they claimed Israel's short range missile defense has about an 80% success rate.

Since U.S. foreign aid helped pay for that system, I hope Israel has shared the technology with our own missile defenses.

But at issue here aren't the $500.oo pieces of junk Hamas launches over the wall. At issue w/ NK are ICBMs (I suspect, thought they might prefer the cruise missile approach).

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I really do not think NK would begin a war in a premeditated fashion. Their leaders have been far too rational in their approach to foreign policy so far. They threaten and they receive benefits. That pattern was set by US..... WE allowed them to get away with the blackmail and now it seems they might push too far in desperation. They need aid and the fat boy might keep escalating until something happens accidentally but this needs to stop. NK needs to grow up and sit down at the table of nations or it needs to cease from being a nation. It is shameful what we've allowed to happen there all these years - those people being treated so inhumanely for so long. If war ever did begin, I feel really badly for the people of Seoul.

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Well the thing is, if a big bully told you what to do..... Would you obey them or would you be really annoyed?

Cause the US keeps putting sanctions on them, the US puts sanctions on Iran as well. Do you know what thta does to the innocent people of those coun tries? People starve, their money becomes useless and their living conditions suffer.

Do you expect these countries to just sit and take that? I sure as hell wouldn't. So when you read these stories in the western media, remember that it's our goverments fault in the first place, these countries are being pushed and pushed until they hit back. You back an animal into the corner and it will fight back.

Maybe if North Korea stopped spending all their money on their upper class and on their military they would be better able to feed their people. Maybe if they gave up their nuclear weapon program sancations would be lifted, as the US has done in the past, and additional aid can be given, as the US has done in the past. Maybe if they stopped threating to destroy South Korea every other week more efforts could be made to improve relations, as has been attempted in the past.

This isn't an animal being backed into a corner. This is an animal going out looking for a fight and getting smacked as a result.

Yes that's what happens when a big bully country puts sanctions on another country.

That's what happens when a country refuses peace offerings and throws around threats everywhere. The US has tried several times to work out agreements with North Korea and every time it seems that things are starting to calm down North Korea flips out and starts making threats. That China, who has been North Korea's protector, is now working with the US to put limits on their allies should tell you who's the bully in this case. The only country that's to blame for North Korea's woes is North Korea.

PS

There's some precedent for it I suppose. China's already annexed Tibet.

But the North Koreans aren't Chinese. They're Korean; blood kin to the South Koreans.

China's governance of NK might be an improvement, for the U.S., particularly if China dismantled the DMZ; and turned it into a more normal border.

- I'm not sure that's what would happen.

- But if it did, I'm not sure South Korea would like it; not sure they'd tolerate it. Problem there is, the U.S. is bound by treaty to South Korea.

Oh no China doesn't want to annex North Korea. They already have a big problem with Koreans sneaking across the border looking for a better life. There's no way in hell that China wants to try and deal with millions of starving and brainwashed North Koreans. They'd just kill a bunch of high ranking officials until they found someone to follow their orders.

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