The reality of the UK education system

[pantodragon]

Really?

Ohh well that's entirely different.

So it has nothing to do with the use of technology in the classroom then, and more "change this and this, eat more apples and smile more".

You judge life coaching by your own standards. Mine are quite another matter. And the standards you reveal here lead me to realise one should never put any faith in your judgement.

[pantodragon]

Perhaps being a bit off-topic coming from the other side of the pond, as a teacher in inner cities schools for 35 years I can only summarize as follows. Teaching is both an extremely difficult yet vastly rewarding profession which has no place for the unprepared or timid. It is true that a teacher can be under attack from numerous fronts but those attacks can be deflected by skill, experience and patience. All of the distractions of modern education cannot touch the infectious excitement of learning.

The US took advertising to new heights, and your piece above sounds as if it comes off the front of an advert encouraging student teachers into ther profession. In other words, it quite literally sounds too good to be true --- and it is.

[ciriuslea]

To quote marcus Aurelius: “........................... I seek the truth, which never harmed anyone: the harm is to persist in one's own self-deception and ignorance.” If pupils are wakened to the truth of what is going on, they can deal with it. I can tell them how. If they persist in their delusions, then they are beyond help and will suffer.

I can only give kudos for you getting out of education, not being a teacher or privy to any curriculum mandates, as a student my first contact with education would be the teacher and regardless of any factor education is based on, its their responsibility. its almost as bad as a workman blaming his tools for a shoddy job, I understand a little about teaching, session plans, curriculum planning, risk assessments, assessor feedback, self assessments I think what determines a stand out teacher is how they deliver the curriculum.

But I do understand slightly what your saying I think, fear is one of the best motivators to get people to do anything, why not use it in education..As for curriculum I assume they are reviewed on a regular basis to cater for current trends its almost on a par as conspiracy to then assume the agenda would be fear and its carried forward into any implemented changes as a result of review.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

You judge life coaching by your own standards. Mine are quite another matter. And the standards you reveal here lead me to realise one should never put any faith in your judgement.

A stinging rebuke.

I'll have to take that on board. After all, someone on the Internet says I'm untrustworthy. I'll have to tell my Principal to not trust me anymore.

[pantodragon]

I can only give kudos for you getting out of education, not being a teacher or privy to any curriculum mandates, as a student my first contact with education would be the teacher and regardless of any factor education is based on, its their responsibility. its almost as bad as a workman blaming his tools for a shoddy job, I understand a little about teaching, session plans, curriculum planning, risk assessments, assessor feedback, self assessments I think what determines a stand out teacher is how they deliver the curriculum.

But I do understand slightly what your saying I think, fear is one of the best motivators to get people to do anything, why not use it in education..As for curriculum I assume they are reviewed on a regular basis to cater for current trends its almost on a par as conspiracy to then assume the agenda would be fear and its carried forward into any implemented changes as a result of review.

You seem to have misunderstood me: frightened people make poor learners. Wakening people to the truth is the first step in dealing with the fear and getting rid of it.

[pantodragon]

. I'll have to tell my Principal to not trust me anymore.

I could not advise this course of action. To quote ferdinand celine:

"The truth of this world is to lie. You must choose either lying or dying. Personally, I have never been able to kill myself."

I would not have you kill yourself on my account.

[Taun]

Quote from It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World: These things happen because when these things happen, people like you just say "These things happen" ("....sad but true....") and that's why these things happen! Anyone who tolerates a culture of survival of the fittest deserves everything they get.

So... You're saying that unfit teachers should be allowed to teach?... Or are you saying that the school system should adopt a tech base of say... the 1850's - so that no teacher will be left behind...?

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

I could not advise this course of action. To quote ferdinand celine:

"The truth of this world is to lie. You must choose either lying or dying. Personally, I have never been able to kill myself."

I would not have you kill yourself on my account.

There are staggeringly few things in this world I'd be prepared to die for or over.

My career isn't one, nor is the advice of a petty little creature on the Internet.

[Taun]

I could not advise this course of action. To quote ferdinand celine:

"The truth of this world is to lie. You must choose either lying or dying. Personally, I have never been able to kill myself."

I would not have you kill yourself on my account.

I have no idea who this Ferdinand Celine character is/was but by his own admission (in that bizarre statement) he's a liar... What has that statement got to do with... anything... in this thread?...

It seems you are obsessed with 'fear'... Are there students who are afraid of going to school or what will happen there? of course... there are people who are afraid of the monsters that live under their beds as well... Are you saying that students should be in an envirnoment where they do not 'fear' failure in class?...

I just don't understand what your primary 'concerns' are... Fear? Technology? 'The man' (meaning the system)?...

[pantodragon]

So... You're saying that unfit teachers should be allowed to teach?...

Yes. The ethic behind this is a million miles away from where you are, so you will not understand that in a better society, that ethic would lead to an excellence in teaching that this society cannot even dream of.

Edited April 11, 2013 by pantodragon

[pantodragon]

There are staggeringly few things in this world I'd be prepared to die for or over.

My career isn't one, nor is the advice of a petty little creature on the Internet.

Actually, always supposing you are not exceptional in our society, I expect you have alreadt died over your career. To quote Alan Bennett: "Sooner or later everything in life becomes work. Even work becomes work" In fact, I am tempted to ask, is there life in them thar hills? The walking dead cannot commit suicide.

I eagerly look forward to your reply, and am cooking my own further response in anticipation.

Edited April 11, 2013 by pantodragon

[pantodragon]

It seems you are obsessed with 'fear'... Are there students who are afraid of going to school or what will happen there? of course... there are people who are afraid of the monsters that live under their beds as well... Are you saying that students should be in an envirnoment where they do not 'fear' failure in class?...

I just don't understand what your primary 'concerns' are... Fear? Technology? 'The man' (meaning the system)?...

The fear is not mine. My concern is for you and the other poor folks who are still in thrall to this culture which is dragging them down into a world of delusion and psychosis --- enjoy the apocalypse.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Actually, always supposing you are not exceptional in our society, I expect you have alreadt died over your career. To quote Alan Bennett: "Sooner or later everything in life becomes work. Even work becomes work" In fact, I am tempted to ask, is there life in them thar hills? The walking dead cannot commit suicide.

I eagerly look forward to your reply, and am cooking my own further response in anticipation.

Sadly, I'm missing the point of most of that.

I work so as to live. I'm one of those people who still enjoys his job. I'm actually excited about something I've planned for later this year. I have a few hobbies - mostly hideously expensive ones (ie plastic crack - I'm a Warhammer 40k player) - and they're merrily fed by my job. I'm canny enough to know how to budget. But all my life isn't "work, bills, work" if that's what you're saying.

[Setton]

You seem to have misunderstood me: frightened people make poor learners.

And poorer teachers. The trick with a disruptive class is just not to let nerves show. So long as they don't see a chink in your armour, it's as good as impregnable.

And you don't need the old style of discipline. A quiet word early and treating pupils as individuals will earn enough respect that little more is needed.

As for the curriculum being too prescriptive: only if you're not creative. I've been working in a difficult inner city school these past few weeks delivering a project on fossils. This was not on the syllabus in any way but was worked in under 'extreme environments' because it was useful knowledge that would spark interest.

Also, by the end of it, a class previously incapable of teamwork had created a timeline of Earth's history, its life and how fossils form. All because of a little patience and thought. Oh, and technology.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

And poorer teachers. The trick with a disruptive class is just not to let nerves show. So long as they don't see a chink in your armour, it's as good as impregnable.

One teacher, old enough to have taught Adam as a lad, gave me this advice (advice incidentally I was quickly told to ignore by my university supervisor) ... "children are pack animals, they follow the alpha for good or bad. You need to be the alpha. If you need to shout to get that role. Shout. If you need to bribe, bribe. Become the pack leader and they'll follow you whereever you lead".

[pantodragon]

And poorer teachers. The trick with a disruptive class is just not to let nerves show. So long as they don't see a chink in your armour, it's as good as impregnable.

And you don't need the old style of discipline. A quiet word early and treating pupils as individuals will earn enough respect that little more is needed.

You're away with the fairies!

As for the curriculum being too prescriptive: only if you're not creative.

Nonsense! Teacher assessment is so strict nowadays and getting stricter that any straying from the official curriculum egts you crucified for your troubles. Pupils like it. Headteachers do not. Pupils even get angry when they realise what rubbish they are being fobbed off with after one has been "creative enough" to introduce them to adult quality learning materials rather than kiddies pretend stuff. (I tried classes with The Ring of the Nibelung, the Classical roots of our culture, classic films with an ethical/social relevance etc. All of these, the kids loved, and were angry that they did not get them on the regular syllabus, but I had to keep my head down and was even reprimanded at one point, for going outside the official curriculum.)

[pantodragon]

One teacher, old enough to have taught Adam as a lad, gave me this advice (advice incidentally I was quickly told to ignore by my university supervisor) ... "children are pack animals, they follow the alpha for good or bad. You need to be the alpha. If you need to shout to get that role. Shout. If you need to bribe, bribe. Become the pack leader and they'll follow you whereever you lead".

I too think this was bad advice. In fact, I think you either have it or you don't. If you don't have it, don't go into teaching, they'll eat you up and spit out the bones. If you do have it, then you can survive. There may be borderline cases, where advice might just get somebody into the able-to-teach category.

[Setton]

You're away with the fairies!

No, as I said, I'm in a school. And doing all of the above and it's working. Just because you weren't capable of managing a class, doesn't make it impossible.

Nonsense! Teacher assessment is so strict nowadays and getting stricter that any straying from the official curriculum egts you crucified for your troubles. Pupils like it. Headteachers do not. Pupils even get angry when they realise what rubbish they are being fobbed off with after one has been "creative enough" to introduce them to adult quality learning materials rather than kiddies pretend stuff. (I tried classes with The Ring of the Nibelung, the Classical roots of our culture, classic films with an ethical/social relevance etc. All of these, the kids loved, and were angry that they did not get them on the regular syllabus, but I had to keep my head down and was even reprimanded at one point, for going outside the official curriculum.)

I have just given you a time where it worked. Yet you still say it is nonsense. To tell you the truth, you remind me of a lot of teachers at school; the very worst ones who blamed all their own failings on the kids and would never listen to anything that goes against what they have already decided is fact. Having read some of your other topics, I can only seem I am glad you're no longer teaching and filling kids' heads with nonsense.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

I too think this was bad advice. In fact, I think you either have it or you don't. If you don't have it, don't go into teaching, they'll eat you up and spit out the bones. If you do have it, then you can survive. There may be borderline cases, where advice might just get somebody into the able-to-teach category.

"It" being what exactly?

"It" is different for each person. For that colleague it was "the commanding presence".

[pantodragon]

No, as I said, I'm in a school. And doing all of the above and it's working. Just because you weren't capable of managing a class, doesn't make it impossible.

I have just given you a time where it worked. Yet you still say it is nonsense. To tell you the truth, you remind me of a lot of teachers at school; the very worst ones who blamed all their own failings on the kids and would never listen to anything that goes against what they have already decided is fact. Having read some of your other topics, I can only seem I am glad you're no longer teaching and filling kids' heads with nonsense.

Let me return the compliment: I have known many teachers who prefer to stick their heads in the sand, like ostriches, and while the kids go on merrily plucking the feathers from their bums and sticking them up their a***s, to see if they can make them flinch, they go on airily maintaining through gritted teeth, that all is sweetness and light, and that they love the children.

Of course there is that well known psychological phenomenon where the tortured fall in love with their torturers.............

Edited April 18, 2013 by pantodragon

[pantodragon]

"It" being what exactly?

"It" is different for each person. For that colleague it was "the commanding presence".

"It" is the ability to step into the snake pit and not get bitten. I daresay it can take a number of different forms, but you know "it" when you've got it, because you survive.

[Setton]

Let me return the compliment: I have known many teachers who prefer to stick their heads in the sand, like ostriches, and while the kids go on merrily plucking the feathers from their bums and sticking them up their a***s, to see if they can make them flinch, they go on airily maintaining through gritted teeth, that all is sweetness and light, and that they love the children.

Of course there is that well known psychological phenomenon where the tortured fall in love with their torturers.............

Or, you know, people could just be better teachers than you. Is that so hard to accept?

I can tell you, with absolute honesty, that the only part of my degree I genuinely enjoyed was taking science into schools. Hence, the decision to go into teaching. Now you can disbelieve this all you like, but I genuinely enjoy working with them and vice versa. Simply because I don't write them off as older teachers tend to and they respect me for that. So many teachers seem to forget that children are people too. They're not boxes to stuff full of information. It's fine to laugh and joke with them and have a conversation so long as they still learn what they need to. You'll always get the mischievous ones who try and catch you out. If they manage it well, it doesn't hurt to laugh along with them either.

[pantodragon]

Simply because I don't write them off as older teachers tend to and they respect me for that.

Healthy children would be entranced by older teachers. Enteranced by their life experience and wisdom of age. Young teachers are bland and boring, having had insufficient experience. Nevertheless, of course, in our sick culture, youth is idolised, is cool, and it's more important to be cool than to have anything between your ears.

[Setton]

Healthy children would be entranced by older teachers. Enteranced by their life experience and wisdom of age. Young teachers are bland and boring, having had insufficient experience. Nevertheless, of course, in our sick culture, youth is idolised, is cool, and it's more important to be cool than to have anything between your ears.

First of all, thank you for ignoring the majority of my post. Nice to see it was a total waste of time trying to talk to you. Much as I suspected, you are the kind of teacher who made up their mind before gathering any information and refuses to consider that they may be wrong.

This wasn't someone you knew was it?

And no, they shouldn't be entranced by older teachers. Not if the teacher is clearly out of her depth and cannot control a class. And the fact that you assume they should respect you just because of your age speaks volumes. Why should they respect you if you're not willing to earn it by treating them as people?

[Mr.United_Nations]

You can't make a class to believe in everything you say or do, its wrong, even though the student is wrong, you should still explain why are they wrong and also. When I was at school the people are were being disruptive were knowledgeable. You can't blame other teachers for being students disruptive, in fact blamming other teachers for rudeness or sillyness is quite sad actually and they are co workers. If you have a problem speak to them and with the students. i think you teached at the wrong school or the area had a low rep. When you are wrong, you are wrong, no reason to keep going.