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OverSword

A New Muslim Plan

68 posts in this topic

Why would one compromise if he has the mentality of "I'm the chosen one"? Until Jews and Muslims come to see that neither is the chosen people, they won't get along.

Jews believe that: Deuteronomy 14:2

"For you are a holy people to YHWH your God, and God has chosen you to be his treasured people from all the nations that are on the face of the earth."

Exodus 19:5

Now therefore, if you will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then you shall be a peculiar treasure unto me from all the peoples, for all the earth is mine

While Muslims believe that: The Quran 3:110

Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith it were best for them; among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors. (110)

Yusuf Ali's translation

Ye are the best community that hath been raised up for mankind. Ye enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency; and ye believe in Allah. And if the People of the Scripture had believed it had been better for them. Some of them are believers; but most of them are evil-livers.

Picthal's translation

These conditions seem to skip Jews and Muslims minds when they each establish themselves as the chosen people. I find it amusing because then they fail to explain how a murderer is God's chosen/favorite person especially when this God is supposed to be just.

Furthermore, Muslims believe that: The Quran 5:82

Strongest among men in enmity to the Believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the Believers wilt thou find those who say: "We are Christians:" because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.

Yusuf Ali's translation

Thou wilt find the most vehement of mankind in hostility to those who believe (to be) the Jews and the idolaters. And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe (to be) those who say: Lo! We are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud.

Picthal's translation

It's funny how one's perception and preconceived notions/ideas about one's self and others control his behavior. Jews and Muslims need to get over themselves.

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Maybe we should kill all these Muslims to show how civilised us Judeo Christians are. (lol)

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I think it is part of Judaic eschatology that the Messiah will not return until the temple is rebuilt. The N.T. states that the Antichrist will defile a temple when he arrives in the last days so common belief is that a third Temple will be built at some point. There is a Temple Institute that is preparing the garments, vessels and teaching the priests the rituals in preparation for the building to happen.

Good point in that the Third Temple doesn't have to be built on the Temple Mount. It's been just centuries of interpretation and tradition that assumes so. That doesn't make it correct. But my point is still pertinent. Without the Ark, there can be no *real* Third Temple. That leaves just two possibilities. Either the Ark exists or there will be no Second Coming. There are thought provoking implications in place here.

Of course, the Ark disappeared prior to the Second Temple but the Second Temple was just a house of worship. It never really enjoyed a period of an independent Jewish state until its destruction. Jesus worshiped there and this is where he chased off the moneychangers, but it was just a building. As just a building, it does not seem right to demolish the Qubbat As-Sakhrah and Al-Aqsa Mosques on the Haram Ash-Sharif (Temple Mount). That would be a crime against humanity like what the Taliban destruction of the Buddhas of Bamiyan was. There's really, no reason to build a Third Temple on the Temple Mount.

But then also, the Second Coming could be considered the return of the Ark. There's more Gnostic theology involved here than Mid East politics. I could see an enclosed alter built on the Temple Mount to mark the binding of Isaac and the first two Temples. If the Third Temple is built on the Temple Mount, nothing says it must be large…

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Good point in that the Third Temple doesn't have to be built on the Temple Mount. It's been just centuries of interpretation and tradition that assumes so. That doesn't make it correct. But my point is still pertinent. Without the Ark, there can be no *real* Third Temple. That leaves just two possibilities. Either the Ark exists or there will be no Second Coming. There are thought provoking implications in place here.

Of course, the Ark disappeared prior to the Second Temple but the Second Temple was just a house of worship. It never really enjoyed a period of an independent Jewish state until its destruction. Jesus worshiped there and this is where he chased off the moneychangers, but it was just a building. As just a building, it does not seem right to demolish the Qubbat As-Sakhrah and Al-Aqsa Mosques on the Haram Ash-Sharif (Temple Mount). That would be a crime against humanity like what the Taliban destruction of the Buddhas of Bamiyan was. There's really, no reason to build a Third Temple on the Temple Mount.

But then also, the Second Coming could be considered the return of the Ark. There's more Gnostic theology involved here than Mid East politics. I could see an enclosed alter built on the Temple Mount to mark the binding of Isaac and the first two Temples. If the Third Temple is built on the Temple Mount, nothing says it must be large…

I read a reference in THE ISLAMIC ANTICHRIST by Joel Richardson, that the ark would be found in the end times according to Islamic eschatology. In the Dead Sea I think.

I can recommend that book for it's treatment of Islamic eschatology and it's basic explanation of the relationships between Qur'an, and Hadith literature.

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Good point in that the Third Temple doesn't have to be built on the Temple Mount. It's been just centuries of interpretation and tradition that assumes so. That doesn't make it correct. But my point is still pertinent. Without the Ark, there can be no *real* Third Temple. That leaves just two possibilities. Either the Ark exists or there will be no Second Coming. There are thought provoking implications in place here.

Of course, the Ark disappeared prior to the Second Temple but the Second Temple was just a house of worship. It never really enjoyed a period of an independent Jewish state until its destruction. Jesus worshiped there and this is where he chased off the moneychangers, but it was just a building. As just a building, it does not seem right to demolish the Qubbat As-Sakhrah and Al-Aqsa Mosques on the Haram Ash-Sharif (Temple Mount). That would be a crime against humanity like what the Taliban destruction of the Buddhas of Bamiyan was. There's really, no reason to build a Third Temple on the Temple Mount.

But then also, the Second Coming could be considered the return of the Ark. There's more Gnostic theology involved here than Mid East politics. I could see an enclosed alter built on the Temple Mount to mark the binding of Isaac and the first two Temples. If the Third Temple is built on the Temple Mount, nothing says it must be large…

Furthermore, according to Flavius Josephus, Herod burned all the geneological records of the Jews. So even if they do manage to reconstruct the Third Temple, where is the Aaronic priesthood? Its GONE!

This temple business is a done and forfeit. Unless one settles for a counterfeit sham.

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Just a question in what came frist. If both Abraham`s son`s desendants of Isaac and Ishamel believe they were the one was sarificed and promise that land, would`nt the third temple to Abraham`s God be consider the dome of the rock?

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Maybe we should kill all these Muslims to show how civilised us Judeo Christians are. (lol)

We did that once (actually a couple of times).

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Just a question in what came frist. If both Abraham`s son`s desendants of Isaac and Ishamel believe they were the one was sarificed and promise that land, would`nt the third temple to Abraham`s God be consider the dome of the rock?

Interesting point! But do the Muslims view it as such? I've never heard that idea....hmmm

We did that once (actually a couple of times).

No one has attempted it since the advent of nuclear weapons though. Bad business all around.

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I read a reference in THE ISLAMIC ANTICHRIST by Joel Richardson, that the ark would be found in the end times according to Islamic eschatology. In the Dead Sea I think.

I can recommend that book for it's treatment of Islamic eschatology and it's basic explanation of the relationships between Qur'an, and Hadith literature.

Everytime i quote a Hadeeth on a questionable matter, Muslims tell me it's either unauthentic or i have misunderstood it. I guess i'll get the same response if i ask about "hat the ark would be found in the end times according to Islamic eschatology. In the Dead Sea I think."

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Everytime i quote a Hadeeth on a questionable matter, Muslims tell me it's either unauthentic or i have misunderstood it. I guess i'll get the same response if i ask about "hat the ark would be found in the end times according to Islamic eschatology. In the Dead Sea I think."

I didn't feel like trying to find the passage from my reference so I googled. It will be brought forth by Al Mahdi

Al Suyuti wrote, “The reason he will be known as the Mahdi is that he will show the way to a hidden thing. He will bring the Ark (of the Covenant) to light from a place called Antioch.” (Suyuti, al-Hawi li’l Fatawa, II, 82,). See,http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/32ark_of_covenant.html

Related by Sulaiman ibn Isa (radhi Allahu ta’ala anhu): “I was informed that the Ark of the Covenant will emerge from the Tabariyya Sea through the efforts of Imam al-Mahdi. It will be placed before him at the Sacred House (Bayt al-Muqaddas in Jerusalem). When the descendents of Judah (the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham) see this (Ark), all except a few will embrace Islam.” (Ibn Hammad transmitted in al-Fitan (1:360#1050); and Suyuti copied it in al-Hawi li’l Fatawa (II:83).

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I didn't feel like trying to find the passage from my reference so I googled. It will be brought forth by Al Mahdi

Al Suyuti wrote, “The reason he will be known as the Mahdi is that he will show the way to a hidden thing. He will bring the Ark (of the Covenant) to light from a place called Antioch.” (Suyuti, al-Hawi li’l Fatawa, II, 82,). See,http://www.harunyahy...f_covenant.html

Related by Sulaiman ibn Isa (radhi Allahu ta’ala anhu): “I was informed that the Ark of the Covenant will emerge from the Tabariyya Sea through the efforts of Imam al-Mahdi. It will be placed before him at the Sacred House (Bayt al-Muqaddas in Jerusalem). When the descendents of Judah (the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham) see this (Ark), all except a few will embrace Islam.” (Ibn Hammad transmitted in al-Fitan (1:360#1050); and Suyuti copied it in al-Hawi li’l Fatawa (II:83).

Sounds good. Thanks!

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Yet another religious extremist thread,... hoo-ray

Frankly I'm getting sick of it.

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Yet another religious extremist thread,... hoo-ray

Frankly I'm getting sick of it.

Last I checked, participation on these forums was voluntary. But if you follow this particular thread it has had almost NO vitriol or arguments. It started with the premise of rapprochement.
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I do think that if humanity becomes extinct at some point in the future, it will be beause of Islam. I'm not predicting that -- most Muslims would strongly object to launching a suicidal bacteriological or chemical or nuclear offensive -- but there are enough Muslims who would rather see that happen than have Islam never rule.

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I do think that if humanity becomes extinct at some point in the future, it will be beause of Islam. I'm not predicting that -- most Muslims would strongly object to launching a suicidal bacteriological or chemical or nuclear offensive -- but there are enough Muslims who would rather see that happen than have Islam never rule.

This is a succinct view that I share. I realize that out of nearly 2 billion Muslims worldwide the number who are extreme in their hatred is limited to the tens of millions. I also believe their hatred is being used for political purposes that they may not necessarily agree with. But with the weapons at their disposal in the 21st century it is a catastrophe we'll be facing soon.
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I didn't feel like trying to find the passage from my reference so I googled. It will be brought forth by Al Mahdi

Al Suyuti wrote, “The reason he will be known as the Mahdi is that he will show the way to a hidden thing. He will bring the Ark (of the Covenant) to light from a place called Antioch.” (Suyuti, al-Hawi li’l Fatawa, II, 82,). See,http://www.harunyahy...f_covenant.html

Related by Sulaiman ibn Isa (radhi Allahu ta’ala anhu): “I was informed that the Ark of the Covenant will emerge from the Tabariyya Sea through the efforts of Imam al-Mahdi. It will be placed before him at the Sacred House (Bayt al-Muqaddas in Jerusalem). When the descendents of Judah (the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham) see this (Ark), all except a few will embrace Islam.” (Ibn Hammad transmitted in al-Fitan (1:360#1050); and Suyuti copied it in al-Hawi li’l Fatawa (II:83).

As i expected, i was told the Hadeeth was unauthentic. Moreover, i was told this is mainly embraced by Shiites (Muslim sect) that Sunnis (Muslim sect) believe they're not Muslims (lol)

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As i expected, i was told the Hadeeth was unauthentic. Moreover, i was told this is mainly embraced by Shiites (Muslim sect) that Sunnis (Muslim sect) believe they're not Muslims (lol)

I also have noticed that when an inconvenient point is made quoting a hadith it is refuted in this way regularly.
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Sunni Muslims count Shiites as Muslim when it is convenient and don't when it isn't.

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