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RavenHawk

Recent Bill Maher quote on taxes

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Well the US government spends about 3.5 trillion a year. http://go.bloomberg....vernment-spend/

There are around 315 million people in the US. http://www.census.go...w/popclock.html

So simple math for a flat tax would be $11,111 per person.

So a married couple would have to pay $22,222 a year and a family of four $44,444.

Thats not counting state and local taxes however.

On the positive note, it would simplify the tax system.

The negative side is the whole having to pay $44,444 for your family of four in order to cover your fair share.

I don't think you can just go with a flat dollar amount for each family. THe tax is on income, not per head.

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What would be unfair about everyone contributing in their own equitable fashion? Why should 40% (or whatever the rate is) of Americans receive back more money then they paid in, and all public programs then be paid (in the main) for by the Rich?

I'm not against taxing the rich, but let us not pretend that the System of Taxation is Fair.

If everyone contributes in some fashion, that is the very Social Definition of FAIR.

Absolutely agree. With EIC (earned income credit) in our state, I know of people that get returns double of what they actually paid in. This is not a refund system, that is another handout.

One of the dweebs I know that got a $5000 dollar tax refund (and never paid that much) went straight to the casino and lost that money. That is a sickening abuse of the system.

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Careful, your Socialist side is showing. If you hate welfare so much, what do you think will create more welfare than the solution you just presented?

You want everyone to pay taxes, I want nobody to pay taxes, and you call me a socialist? Like so many other posters on this board, I have to agree, you don't have a clue what socialism is.

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A "flat tax" can still tax the rich and not the poor. All "flat" means is that the rate applied to taxable income is not increased as income goes up. A flat 25% tax is that percent of taxable income.

The key is what constitutes "taxable" income. With deductions and exemptions and so on, it is easy to make such a system highly progressive. What might be easiest and also "fairest" (a problematic concept) is a stiff tax -- say something like 50 percent of incomes exceeding some indexed figure like $20,000 per person in the household, with no other deductions or exemptions.

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Yeah I'm definitely of the opinion that everyone should owe a flat % tax with no loopholes. The rich will still paying more(which will make liberals happy) and the poor will still contribute(makes the conservatives happy). The government should then base it's spending on how much revenue it gets, not find ways to manipulate the revenue to pay for things it can't afford.

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I would suggest that tax rates should be decided by some independent board (appointed the usual way but with fixed terms). Then whenever Congress spends money, this board would announce what that would do to the taxes. Automatic balanced budget (or maybe small deficit depending on economic conditions) and the population would see what each item of spending does to their pocketbook.

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They could do community service instead. Is three weeks stretched over 52 weeks going to kill someone who is unemployed, or on food stamps, or welfare, or just poor?

I agree for someone on welfare. Otherwise its slavery.

Then again our entire system is based on slavery, and was intentionaly designed that way. Aside from a property tax (and even that I would cut to a fraction of what it is here in NY) if I could get away with it, I wouldnt pay the federal government anything. Corperations should be the only ones paying a federal income tax. Its slavery for the individual. Saying I owe someone else for the right to work is down right amazing.

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I agree for someone on welfare. Otherwise its slavery.

Then again our entire system is based on slavery, and was intentionaly designed that way. Aside from a property tax (and even that I would cut to a fraction of what it is here in NY) if I could get away with it, I wouldnt pay the federal government anything. Corperations should be the only ones paying a federal income tax. Its slavery for the individual. Saying I owe someone else for the right to work is down right amazing.

Yeah. You'll go to jail if you don't pay your taxes, so I don't see the difference between that and enforced community service as tax.

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Bill Maher and Phil Mikleson are both grumbling about the California tax laws.

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Yeah. You'll go to jail if you don't pay your taxes, so I don't see the difference between that and enforced community service as tax.

The difference is we need local community services. I dont need to bomb several different countries daily. Or any number of things they steal money from me for.

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One's investment in the economy is called work, not giving money to government because of that work.

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One's investment in the economy is called work, not giving money to government because of that work.

In a logical world, if people have more money in their pocket, they'll spend more in their community.

Maybe rates could go up without taxes in order to cover road repairs etc.

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Do you favor our present system?

In general, yes I favor our income tax system as a progressive tax system. If that's what you're referring to.

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What would be unfair about everyone contributing in their own equitable fashion?

since the marginal value of income declines with the amount of income (the last $100 of income of a family living near poverty being considerably more valuable than the last $100 of income of a millionaire), taxing that last $100 of income the same amount despite vast differences in the marginal value of money is unfair.

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In general, yes I favor our income tax system as a progressive tax system. If that's what you're referring to.

I'm no economist at all, but it seems to me that our present tax system has more failings than successes.

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Yeah I'm definitely of the opinion that everyone should owe a flat % tax with no loopholes. The rich will still paying more(which will make liberals happy) and the poor will still contribute(makes the conservatives happy). The government should then base it's spending on how much revenue it gets, not find ways to manipulate the revenue to pay for things it can't afford.

My idea is similar only that each years budget should be based off of the previous years intake. That way there are no predictions, projections and all the other screw ups. Not that those in charge woul like the constraints but too bad. And anyone who favors living under our current 90,000 pages of tax regulation as opposed to a simple set percentage is a knucklehead.

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I'd like to see something like... only taxing a household's money above that household's cost of living (the national estimate) ... that way those who wish to make more money can pay for the privilege lol.

Cost of living should be included in that whole life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness thing. I don't know.. it's complicated, i just know that the status quo stinks.

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So long as the simple fixed percentage isn't a non-zero number, I'll stamp it 'knucklehead-free'.

We don't need a Federal Reserve. We don't need a personal income tax. We don't need price fixers from Washington DC. We don't need chronic inflation. We don't need a country driven by federal government anymore. We should be driven by passionate individuals and groups of individuals who are free enough to capitalize upon their own great ideas. The way to stop China's rapid rise to ascendancy is to be freer than they are. We will be a nation of has-beens on our current course.

A flat tax won't eliminate 90,000 pages it'll create 90,000 more chasing after the mess of additional loopholes that will follow. It'll turn the game even more in favor of the rich and against the poor than it already is. I don't want to reward wealth on a relative basis, I want to reward freedom and ideas on an absolute basis. The more Americans that are working and living tax free the better. Ideas like "all Americans should pay some taxes" are Statist.

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Posted (edited)

I just found out my in laws, who are self employed, are going to have to pay $5,000 in taxes! My FIL is a plumber and my MIL cleans houses. What kinda money do they think they make? Seriously...

Two years ago they had an audit. It was complete BS. When the whole thing was over, the IRS never apologized to them for inconviencing them or anything. The whole thing really upset my MIL because they were always so ugly and hostile to them.

Edited by Kowalski

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In 2011 I paid more income taxes than General Electric did, and there is something fundamentally wrong about that.

In general terms I am against the "income tax" as it has evolved today since the adoption of the 16th Amendment from which it is derived. When the 16th was passed, a man's wages WERE NOT considered income. Income came from an investment such as real estate. Wages WERE NOT income.

The income tax tends to make a person become less productive. Why work harder, when in the end it means one pays more taxes?

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since the marginal value of income declines with the amount of income (the last $100 of income of a family living near poverty being considerably more valuable than the last $100 of income of a millionaire), taxing that last $100 of income the same amount despite vast differences in the marginal value of money is unfair.

The only reason that is considered Unfair is because someone back in history decided that the poor paying taxes when they could not afford it was wrong! :yes:

If a family living near poverty is paying only a little, and a rich family is paying a lot, how is that unfair? Your fairness would have the poor pay nothing and the rich pay almost all. The fact that the rich can afford to be taxed a lot more and still live comfortably is just a Progressive cry baby platform. There is nothing fair about taxing some nothing and others a lot.

I have no problem with taxing the rich and not taxing the poor. I just don't want to hear about how doing so is Fair and Even. Because it is not... :tu:

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In 2011 I paid more income taxes than General Electric did, and there is something fundamentally wrong about that.

In general terms I am against the "income tax" as it has evolved today since the adoption of the 16th Amendment from which it is derived. When the 16th was passed, a man's wages WERE NOT considered income. Income came from an investment such as real estate. Wages WERE NOT income.

The income tax tends to make a person become less productive. Why work harder, when in the end it means one pays more taxes?

It's absolutely ridiculous how much money people are paying in taxes! You know how much my husband and I's income tax refund was this year? $26

Of course, I'd take that, over paying $5,000, any day of the week, so what am I b****ing about?

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Alright then what about the fair tax? Just a bigger sales tax on everything you buy with no loopholes. Everybody pays no matter what on everything you buy everyday. The rich will still pay more. We could actually use cash again. No need to keep track of receipts and write offs. No stress no worries. I'd do 20% no problem on just for the ease of it. 20% from everything somebody buys would probably bring in enormous revenue and there's no IRS looming over you.

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Many people are one paycheck away from being wiped out. One health scare, one family emergency, one more manufactured inflationary price increase courtesy of the establishment. The best thing that they can be doing is working, and by imposing an income tax on them we're going to further demotivate them from working by taking a chunk of their already unsurvivable earnings. Keeping the rest of the system intact while instilling a flat tax, making the bottom people pay some uselessly small amount of income tax they can't bloody afford to pay as it is, won't solve squat. It'll give the appearance of being "fair", whatever that means. The people successfully selling that soap to the masses know what it means. I'll support a flat tax after the Federal Reserve banking system vanishes because the price fixing inflationary power of Washington and its Frankenstein have created a game so rigged and a playing field so uneven, the last thing we need to be doing is throwing millions of people overboard in the toxic economic environment they're living in; that's the worst idea for prosperity (or whatever the hell the goal is in advocating it) that I've heard yet.

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Alright then what about the fair tax? Just a bigger sales tax on everything you buy with no loopholes. Everybody pays no matter what on everything you buy everyday. The rich will still pay more. We could actually use cash again. No need to keep track of receipts and write offs. No stress no worries. I'd do 20% no problem on just for the ease of it. 20% from everything somebody buys would probably bring in enormous revenue and there's no IRS looming over you.

Sales tax on everything you buy? On stocks? Bonds? Really?

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