To Our Isles Members

[No Censorship]

BTW, not to sound like I'm sixteen, but I have a question. What country and/or region contains the best looking people? That's a subjective thing, but I'm curious to hear various opinions. Feel free to ask questions about Americans too.

[Guest]

Thanks for the information. I have roots in both countries, but I likely don't look like a native of either country. The stereotype of Irish and Scottish people is that many or most of them have red hair. We know that's a bit of a myth. It's my understanding that the majority of "Celts" have dark hair with light eyes whereas "Saxons" tend to have lighter hair. Is this close to the truth? If so, it reflects settling patterns, but I might be oversimplifying things. For example, Ireland has a multitude of phenotypes, from what I see.

Appearance can vary significantly between regions. The Irish tend to be heavier set than the English with fairer skin. Red hair probably accounts for just 5% of the Irish population - bu8t its a very distinctive Irish red and type.

Br Cornelius

[No Censorship]

Appearance can vary significantly between regions. The Irish tend to be heavier set than the English with fairer skin. Red hair probably accounts for just 5% of the Irish population - bu8t its a very distinctive Irish red and type.

Br Cornelius

I might be able to pass as Welsh. I have dark hair and dark eyes, which are atypical for most of the Isles. I think that many Welsh people look like the first inhabitants. BTW, I'm surprised to hear that Irish folks are thicker than English folks. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Scottish people are fatter. Their diets are worse than ordinary Americans' diets, and that's really saying something! They evidently eat fried candy bars, which sounds like something that we would do. We're right up there with you guys when it comes to eating and drinking too much.

[ExpandMyMind]

I might be able to pass as Welsh. I have dark hair and dark eyes, which are atypical for most of the Isles. I think that many Welsh people look like the first inhabitants. BTW, I'm surprised to hear that Irish folks are thicker than English folks. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Scottish people are fatter. Their diets are worse than ordinary Americans' diets, and that's really saying something! They evidently eat fried candy bars, which sounds like something that we would do. We're right up there with you guys when it comes to eating and drinking too much.

Anywhere where there is high relative poverty in the Western World will you find lots of fat and unhealthy people.

Br, I actually cannot tell the difference between Scottish people and Irish, and most of the time I can't tell the difference between English and the other two. I haven't met enough Welsh people to comment on that though.

[Guest]

Anywhere where there is high relative poverty in the Western World will you find lots of fat and unhealthy people.

Br, I actually cannot tell the difference between Scottish people and Irish, and most of the time I can't tell the difference between English and the other two. I haven't met enough Welsh people to comment on that though.

Off in the wild west that people tend to be more destinctive. The Northern Irish and Scottish were very intermixed and I would say they look very similar.

Br Cornelius

[No Censorship]

Anywhere where there is high relative poverty in the Western World will you find lots of fat and unhealthy people.

Br, I actually cannot tell the difference between Scottish people and Irish, and most of the time I can't tell the difference between English and the other two. I haven't met enough Welsh people to comment on that though.

That seems to be the result of bad choices when it comes to diet. Surely, they're not forced to eat more fast food and junk food than they should. You can buy healthy food at low prices. I'm not sure that current conventional wisdom is correct when it comes to the causes of obesity.

From what I read, there isn't too much variation in appearances, which makes sense. British and Irish people cluster in close proximity to each other since they're both northwestern Europeans. You likely find darker-featured natives in the western fringes of the Isles, though. I'm not sure where the most attractive folks live.

[ExpandMyMind]

That seems to be the result of bad choices when it comes to diet. Surely, they're not forced to eat more fast food and junk food than they should. You can buy healthy food at low prices. I'm not sure that current conventional wisdom is correct when it comes to the causes of obesity.

From what I read, there isn't too much variation in appearances, which makes sense. British and Irish people cluster in close proximity to each other since they're both northwestern Europeans. You likely find darker-featured natives in the western fringes of the Isles, though. I'm not sure where the most attractive folks live.

It has little to do with fast food. Cheap processed foods are the main culprit, and it's often not a matter of choice. Most people, and especially families, living in relative poverty cannot afford to buy healthy food, such as fresh, unprocessed meats and vegetables. This food is more often than not twice as expensive than the processed stuff full of additives, saturated fat, and especially sugar.

There are obviously other factors, exercise being one, but what we put into our bodies, in my opinion, would be the main factor.

[Guest]

Climate has a strong influence on our food choices. Starchy fatty foods are the mainstay of Irish cooking and it represents comfort eating and energy food.

The lack of sunlight in Scotland and Ireland means that Vit. D deficiency is chronic which leads to a higher incidence of cancers, heart disease and other chronic health issues.

Br Cornelius

[ExpandMyMind]

Climate has a strong influence on our food choices. Starchy fatty foods are the mainstay of Irish cooking and it represents comfort eating and energy food.

The lack of sunlight in Scotland and Ireland means that Vit. D deficiency is chronic which leads to a higher incidence of cancers, heart disease and other chronic health issues.

Br Cornelius

I didn't think that the sun had to be out for us to absorb Vitamin D. I thought that merely being outside would be enough, as the sun penetrates clouds. Take Australia for example, where sunscreen is needed even on cloudy days.

[Guest]

I didn't think that the sun had to be out for us to absorb Vitamin D. I thought that merely being outside would be enough, as the sun penetrates clouds. Take Australia for example, where sunscreen is needed even on cloudy days.

Its a particular type of UV which doesn't penetrate through even humid air. Maybe when most people worked outside all day there was enough to get by on - but that is debatable. It is reckoned that North of Manchester there is never enough of the right sunlight.

A scientists studied health indices for a range of cities across the UK accounting for dietary choices and found that all things been equal all health measures declined with latitude. He concluded that Vit.D supplements should be added to foods in the UK due to this effect, and he is the reason why Vit.D is now been taken seriously as a national health issue.

Cancer and heart attack rates are the key indicators for Vit.D deficiency.

I personally take 5000ISU of Vit.D once a week.

Br Cornelius

[ExpandMyMind]

Its a particular type of UV which doesn't penetrate through even humid air. Maybe when most people worked outside all day there was enough to get by on - but that is debatable. It is reckoned that North of Manchester there is never enough of the right sunlight.

A scientists studied health indices for a range of cities across the UK accounting for dietary choices and found that all things been equal all health measures declined with latitude. He concluded that Vit.D supplements should be added to foods in the UK due to this effect, and he is the reason why Vit.D is now been taken seriously as a national health issue.

Cancer and heart attack rates are the key indicators for Vit.D deficiency.

I personally take 5000ISU of Vit.D once a week.

Br Cornelius

I must be honest, I've thought about supplementing with certain vitamins but didn't realise they had quite that effect. Vitamin D will be one I'll definitely have a look at. Thanks.

Edited March 29, 2013 by ExpandMyMind

[+and-then]

BTW, not to sound like I'm sixteen, but I have a question. What country and/or region contains the best looking people? That's a subjective thing, but I'm curious to hear various opinions. Feel free to ask questions about Americans too.

Well if the Corrs sisters are any indication, the Irish have some of the most beautiful women on the planet.

[Essan]

Greetings to our members across the pond. Here's a question for you from someone who has roots in and ties to all five countries that comprise the British Isles. What are the real differences between English, Irish, Northern Irish, Scottish, and Welsh people? I'm referring to cultural, religious, genetic, physical, intranational, regional, socio-political characteristics, or, anything that comes to your mind that would be instructive to a mongrelized Yank like me.

Basically none.

We're all the descendants of people who migrated here from what is now the Basque region in northern Spain around 11,000 years ago - with a mix of central European celts, Scandinavians, Germans and others gradually adding to the gene pool over the subsequent millenia.

We all got conquered by the Normans nearly a thousand years ago - the ramifications of which still have us blaming one another to this day. Because the one thing we've always been very, very good at is squabbling amongst ourselves,

We did used to get on together though:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21724084

[No Censorship]

It has little to do with fast food. Cheap processed foods are the main culprit, and it's often not a matter of choice. Most people, and especially families, living in relative poverty cannot afford to buy healthy food, such as fresh, unprocessed meats and vegetables. This food is more often than not twice as expensive than the processed stuff full of additives, saturated fat, and especially sugar.

There are obviously other factors, exercise being one, but what we put into our bodies, in my opinion, would be the main factor.

I agree with your last sentence. I disagree with the rest of your post. I know, from experience, that one can buy healthy and inexpensive food, much of which is cheaper than garbage. Poor people aren't destined to become obese.

[No Censorship]

Well if the Corrs sisters are any indication, the Irish have some of the most beautiful women on the planet.

I can't argue with that. Also, Grace Kelly was half Irish.

[No Censorship]

Basically none.

We're all the descendants of people who migrated here from what is now the Basque region in northern Spain around 11,000 years ago - with a mix of central European celts, Scandinavians, Germans and others gradually adding to the gene pool over the subsequent millenia.

We all got conquered by the Normans nearly a thousand years ago - the ramifications of which still have us blaming one another to this day. Because the one thing we've always been very, very good at is squabbling amongst ourselves,

We did used to get on together though:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...s/uk-21724084

That's a great explanation. I'll add one caveat to it. Some English and Scottish regions cluster closer to continental populations. They're descended from Germanic tribes.

That's a good point about the Normans. They were divided too. The English Normans fought the Irish and Scottish Normans. The latter groups married into Celtic clans.

[bLu3 de 3n3rgy]

One observation i have noticed when visiting various Scottish castles, is the original military/dress uniforms on display, gloves, armour, swords ect are all actually fairly petite. It would suggest that putting the effects of the modern diet aside, the scots were either very petite and light framed nimble bodied people, or very tall and heavy - ie to pick up a real claymore and be able to use it, one would need to be at least 6 foot and have a lot and i mean a lot of strength to utilise it.

[No Censorship]

One observation i have noticed when visiting various Scottish castles, is the original military/dress uniforms on display, gloves, armour, swords ect are all actually fairly petite. It would suggest that putting the effects of the modern diet aside, the scots were either very petite and light framed nimble bodied people, or very tall and heavy - ie to pick up a real claymore and be able to use it, one would need to be at least 6 foot and have a lot and i mean a lot of strength to utilise it.

The consensus is that they weren't as small as we think. Heights fluctuated through the years. Men and women were taller before the known start of agriculture. They consumed more protein. Heights varied after the known start of agriculture too. Men and women were taller in certain regions. For instance, Germans often towered native Romans. There were distinct variations within countries too. It's likely that this applied to Scotland, where men and women might have been taller in the Highlands than in the Lowlands. That variation in height likely was caused by diets, and ethnicity might have played a much lesser role. The ways in which clothing, structures, armor, etc. were designed often made people seem shorter than they really were too. That might explain why the past Scottish people seem tiny to you. In general, average heights were 5'6" and 5'2" for most or much of recorded history in this area of the world. Of course, class distinctions skewed these statistics. Wealthy people often dwarfed impoverished people. Some female members of the British nobility hovered around 6' while many "peasant" women were well under 5'!

[No Censorship]

We did used to get on together though:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...s/uk-21724084

What a drag! That site is no longer there.

[Guest]

On the east coast of Ireland you can see pockets of populations with strong Norman influences. They tend to be taller, fairer of hair and slimmer.

Outside of these places the same look tends to stand out.

Br Cornelius

[Space Commander Travis]

On the east coast of Ireland you can see pockets of populations with strong Norman influences. They tend to be taller, fairer of hair and slimmer.

Outside of these places the same look tends to stand out.

Br Cornelius

Indeed, Dublin was founded by the Vikings or Norsemen, wasn't it.

[Guest]

Indeed, Dublin was founded by the Vikings or Norsemen, wasn't it.

Yep. Wexford is a Norman town. Really though the Norman penetration was far less significant outside of a very few local areas.

I believe that when you go deeper in genetics than the big main groups, that it shows that many populations have been around for thousands of years and the individual genetic variety can be very localized.

Its easy to forget this in England because there are different cultural drivers;

- Tribalism and family is far less important

- People have been displaced from their home place for generations

- People tend to marry out of community much more readily

- England has had far more waves of inward migration than the fringe nations

All of this adds up to creating a much more homogenized population across England.

I was born and brought up in Leicester, and that is a town where true Leicester people are a tiny minority of a population made up of incomers who drifts through for a generation or two and then tends to move on.

Br Cornelius

Edited March 30, 2013 by Guest

[Frank Merton]

Given unrestriced food, obeisity is largely genetic, and people should try to accept themselves as they are rather than trying to fit some artificial model.

It is true that excess weight increases the chances of problems, but yo-yo weight gain and loss, which is what always happens when people go on diets or take weight reduction regimens, is much worse, and each time back up the scale the problem gets ten or so kilos worse. Exercise offsets much of the danger of moderate obeisity (better to be somewhat fat and fit than thin and unfit).

There are few nowadays who get enough vitamin D from sunshine.

[No Censorship]

On the east coast of Ireland you can see pockets of populations with strong Norman influences. They tend to be taller, fairer of hair and slimmer.

Outside of these places the same look tends to stand out.

Br Cornelius

That's the case in some southern counties too. Some natives have Norman blood. My guess is that you'll find people, with dark eyes *and* dark hair, in relatively remote places on the western fringes. This phenotype is quite rare in Ireland, so these individuals probably are descended from aboriginal groups.

[No Censorship]

Indeed, Dublin was founded by the Vikings or Norsemen, wasn't it.

Cork, Limerick, and Waterford were too. The Vikings were relegated to their enclaves, though.