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Harsh86_Patel

Ramayana and Mahabharata

128 posts in this topic

http://www.oocities.org/trueworldhistory/ramayana.html

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/lord_rama_fact_or_fiction.htm

http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/ancient/mahabharat/mahab_vartak.html

http://blog.world-mysteries.com/science/ancient-weapons-of-mass-destruction-and-the-mahabharata/

It has been a subject of a lot of debate.Initially the epics like that of Homer Illiad and the city of troy were considered to be figments of imagination but with more information emerging with time,many people now are convinced that these are actual events and not myths.

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We have ancients talking of flying vehicles called Vimanas, weapons of mass destruction called Brahmastras, Ape like humanoids called Vanaras, generation of electricity by using batteries called Mithra-Varuna, and descriptions of ancient and glorious civilizations and the events linked with them described in both these epics.

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Are we talking about the same guy that killed Ravana ? Who was at war with the rakshasa ?

Do you also believe in rakshasa ? And how the ten rakshasi in the Lotus sutra were in service to Shiva himself ?

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Are we talking about the same guy that killed Ravana ? Who was at war with the rakshasa ?

Do you also believe in rakshasa ? And how the ten rakshasi in the Lotus sutra were in service to Shiva himself ?

Rakshasha were in my opinions also Humans and not a separate species.

Lord Rama was the protagonist of the Ramayana and yes he was the guy who killed Ravana.

And yes Ravana and his clan were known to be the most ardent Devotees of Shiva.

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Posted (edited)

what about the epic of gilgamesh, could it be considered a prototype story for the biblical flood. I have recently encountered interpretations of certain parts of the mahabhartra that relate to world ages, now we're in the kali yuga, and there are many ages described. e.g. there are too many devas, so an incarnation of krishna comes along and takes them to task etc. I Don't know wether I would let my imagination get too carried away. there are numerous people that take that line of thought, such as michael Tsarion, but I definatly wouldn't jump on his band wagon. however, the parralels between the M~batra, and other mythologies and sacred texts are definately worth examining.

Edited by bom shankra
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what about the epic of gigalmesh, could it be considered a prototype story for the biblical flood. I have recently encountered interpretations of certain parts of the mahabhartra that relate to world ages, now we're in the kali yuga, and there are many ages described. e.g. there are too many devas, so an incarnation of krishna comes along and takes them to task etc. I Don't know wether I would let my imagination get too carried away. there are numerous people that take that line of thought, such as michael Tsarion, but I definatly wouldn't jump on his band wagon. however, the parralels between the M~batra, and other mythologies and sacred texts are definately worth examining.

You have a sense of things but a few corrections-

It is not an avataar of Krishna but avataar of Vishnu (Krishna was also an avataar of Vishnu).An avataar of vishnu takes birth when there are too much evil happening in the world for the guidance of Humanity.

Not only the epic of Gilgamesh and but even the story of Manu are considered to be the predecessors of the biblical flood myth of Noah.

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Posted (edited)

Krishna does not pretend to be a fool, the smiling one. He merely insists again and again on being a simple mortal when everybody wishes to adore him as the highest god, which he is. Nor is he known particularly as an "avenger." He was delegated from higher quarters to free the earth--"overburdened" as it was with Asura­--as he had done time and again in his former avatars. Krishna belongs here, however, because Indian tradition has preserved the consciousness of the cosmic frame, and it is this alone that gives meaning to the incidence of war and the notion of crime and punishment as they appear in myth.

82

It is useful to keep philosophy and mythology carefully separate, and yet the many gods and heroes who avenge their fathers--beginning with "Horus-the-avenger-of-his-father" and "Ninurta who has avenged his father"--have their function destined to them, as has the long line of wicked uncles. These figures pay reparation and atonement to each other for their mutual injustice in the order of time, as Anaximander said. Anaximander was a philosopher. Despite its fantastic language the Indian epic has an affinity with his thought. Vishnu returns regularly in his capacity of "avenger," collecting the "reparations" of the bad uncle "according to the order of time." In the Mahabharata he does so under the name of Krishna, but he will come again in the shape of another avatar to clear the earth of the Asura who overburden it. The Asura, too, grow into "overbearing characters" strictly according to the order of time. If under the name of Kalki the Vishnu figure is expected to introduce a new Krita Yuga (Golden Age), when our present Kali Yuga has come to its miserable end.

It is this regular returning of avatars of Vishnu which helps clarify matters. Because it is Vishnu's function to return as avenger at fixed intervals of time, there is no need in the epic to emphasize the revenge taken by Krishna on Uncle Kansa. But in the West, where the continuity of cosmic processes as told by myth has been forgotten--along with the knowledge that gods are stars--the very same revenge is given great importance because it is an unrepeated event accomplished by one figure, whether hero or god, and this hero or god is, moreover, understood to be the creation of some imaginative poet. The introduction of Indian tradition makes it possible to rediscover the context in which such characters as Saxo's Amlethus, such typically unlucky fellows as Kullervo, have significance. Once it is fully realized that "the day Krishna shall have departed from the earth will be the first of the Kali Yuga," the proper perspective is established. Our hero stands precisely on the threshold between a closed age and a new Time Zero. In fact, he closes the old one.

yes it may be mixed up, in fact i'm still confused....I meant to say asura rather than devas as well. :yes:

Edited by bom shankra

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[/font]

yes it may be mixed up, in fact i'm still confused....I meant to say asura rather than devas as well. :yes: [/size]

Asuras is term often used as a simile for rakshasha but Asuras were again typically the opposite of devas as a rival faction. In zorastrianism the daevas are considered to be bad and the Asuras to be godlike. And 'Krishna and his previous avataar' is again a refferrence to Vishnu.

The tasks faced by Krishna to take revenge from his evil uncle Kansa are very similar to the 12 labours of Hercules. Some say that 'Hercules' can be a corruption of the word 'Harikoolesh' which was one of the many names of Krishna.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashyap

The sage Kashyap is an important figure,one of his wives was diti mother of demons,

his other wife was Aditi mother of the devas the gods,

It is said that the demons had great capacity for penance and austerities but whenever some demon does great austerities and recieves a boon he cause havoc ,unable to control his power he want s to conquer everyone,they are cruel,full of lust,anger and egoistic,do not value the balance of nature,

the devas are powerful have divine pleasures,power but respect the trinity,respect the balance of nature and content with enjoying heaven they respect natural laws and are beneficial to human kind,they have divine qualities as well,

when devas get over involved in sensory indulgances and forget austerities then strong demonic power appears ,the devas plead to vishnu or shiva to rescue them they repent their mistakes ,the demons in such time become powerful and cause havoc ,vishnu kills the demons ,restores balance and immortal devas learn a lesson.

As is light so simultaneously their is light both exist like day and night,penance ,austerities and tapasya are open for everyone but only great individuals can do great austerities for it requires great focus and determination, demons have great jealosy and anger and hunger for power so some of them use these strong urges for feeding their determination to do tapasya,whereas devas are moderate they usually have a nice time and are content with their divine life.

For mahabharata we have many temples that are built by characters from the epic still in india,

Paramhansa yogannada authour of the book autobiography of a yogi claimed that he was arjuna in past life,

rameshwaram to srilanka their are evidences of a bridge constructed????????

Hadimba temple exists in himachal pradesh ,

krishna's's gita is a masterpiece,

Kurukshetra exists and the epic has to be patiently understood and read before concluding anything,respecting all religions and beliefs i give my opinion............:)

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashyap

The sage Kashyap is an important figure,one of his wives was diti mother of demons,

his other wife was Aditi mother of the devas the gods,

It is said that the demons had great capacity for penance and austerities but whenever some demon does great austerities and recieves a boon he cause havoc ,unable to control his power he want s to conquer everyone,they are cruel,full of lust,anger and egoistic,do not value the balance of nature,

the devas are powerful have divine pleasures,power but respect the trinity,respect the balance of nature and content with enjoying heaven they respect natural laws and are beneficial to human kind,they have divine qualities as well,

when devas get over involved in sensory indulgances and forget austerities then strong demonic power appears ,the devas plead to vishnu or shiva to rescue them they repent their mistakes ,the demons in such time become powerful and cause havoc ,vishnu kills the demons ,restores balance and immortal devas learn a lesson.

As is light so simultaneously their is light both exist like day and night,penance ,austerities and tapasya are open for everyone but only great individuals can do great austerities for it requires great focus and determination, demons have great jealosy and anger and hunger for power so some of them use these strong urges for feeding their determination to do tapasya,whereas devas are moderate they usually have a nice time and are content with their divine life.

For mahabharata we have many temples that are built by characters from the epic still in india,

Paramhansa yogannada authour of the book autobiography of a yogi claimed that he was arjuna in past life,

rameshwaram to srilanka their are evidences of a bridge constructed????????

Hadimba temple exists in himachal pradesh ,

krishna's's gita is a masterpiece,

Kurukshetra exists and the epic has to be patiently understood and read before concluding anything,respecting all religions and beliefs i give my opinion............ :)

Also some say that the Caspian sea is named after Sage Kashyap who migrated with his clan towards central Europe in antiquity.

Though calling these people demons would be give a wrong impression. They were known as 'Asuras' and were similar in all other ways to the devas but the hindus favoured the Devas and so did Vishnu whereas the Zorastrians favoured the Asuras hence these could have been two actual warring clans. The Hindu scriptures casts the Asuras in a bad light. Shiva held both the Devas and Asuras in equal regard and treated them equally and some say that he favoured the Asuras more as he was venerated by Asuras who would please him with their Tapasya and obtain boons from him more frequently then Devas who were more bent towards Vishnu.

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what about the epic of gilgamesh, could it be considered a prototype story for the biblical flood. I have recently encountered interpretations of certain parts of the mahabhartra that relate to world ages, now we're in the kali yuga, and there are many ages described. e.g. there are too many devas, so an incarnation of krishna comes along and takes them to task etc. I Don't know wether I would let my imagination get too carried away. there are numerous people that take that line of thought, such as michael Tsarion, but I definatly wouldn't jump on his band wagon. however, the parralels between the M~batra, and other mythologies and sacred texts are definately worth examining.

You have a interesting nick but if i am not wrong it should be 'Boom Shankara' .....shiva

Moz-modern-rendition-of-shiva1.jpg

It's good to be high.....lol

Though tomorrow is a festival called Holi in India where people drink 'Bhang' or weed mixed in milk which is considered to be Shiva's favourite drink and helped him in his penance.

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Interesting reads for next weekend. Thanks.

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Oh Harsh, not more nationalistic claptrap?. These are silly badly written fairy tales containing no universal truths other than the fact that people of all era's are prone to flights of literary fantasy. They contain no more esoteric knowledge than the back of a shampoo bottle, no more relevance than a poor pop song and no more historical accuracy than the History Channel.

This is supposed to be a forum for mysteries, not rambling old cod epics.

Happy easter.

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You have a interesting nick but if i am not wrong it should be 'Boom Shankara' .....shiva

Moz-modern-rendition-of-shiva1.jpg

It's good to be high.....lol

Though tomorrow is a festival called Holi in India where people drink 'Bhang' or weed mixed in milk which is considered to be Shiva's favourite drink and helped him in his penance.

Bum
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Oh Harsh, not more nationalistic claptrap?. These are silly badly written fairy tales containing no universal truths other than the fact that people of all era's are prone to flights of literary fantasy. They contain no more esoteric knowledge than the back of a shampoo bottle, no more relevance than a poor pop song and no more historical accuracy than the History Channel.

This is supposed to be a forum for mysteries, not rambling old cod epics.

Happy easter.

Why not?

Why dont you say the same thing on the orea linda thread?

Harsh is not nationalistic. He is genuinley interested to discuss. Many of us , including me disagree with him on many points. But thats the part of a debate.

All epics are similar - fantastic fanciful fairy tales.

Care to point out any epic which is not?

I am still learning on the epics. Whatever links that were posted in this thread have added to my knowledge only.

But whats with you?

Do you have any constructive or imformative matter to debate on the topic of thios post, and not b****ing about it??

With just 17 posts on this forum, you smell of a troll.

Show some respect.

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Bah! Humbug!

The Indian Govermnet has declared Holi to be a Dry Day.

And iam in the middle east....no Bhang for me.

Heck.... i miss all that bhang...

Once you drink Bhang and start doing something...like laughing...you keep on laughing or if you start crying..you keep on crying.

Funny stuff it was.

and all the colours.

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Rakshasha were in my opinions also Humans and not a separate species.

Lord Rama was the protagonist of the Ramayana and yes he was the guy who killed Ravana.

And yes Ravana and his clan were known to be the most ardent Devotees of Shiva.

Rakshasa were shape shifters who took hideous forms ,and smelled quite horrific . I have ne er heard of them classified as human . They can take human form though .

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Bum

Bum

Shiva is a sexy b**** .

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Oh Harsh, not more nationalistic claptrap?. These are silly badly written fairy tales containing no universal truths other than the fact that people of all era's are prone to flights of literary fantasy. They contain no more esoteric knowledge than the back of a shampoo bottle, no more relevance than a poor pop song and no more historical accuracy than the History Channel.

This is supposed to be a forum for mysteries, not rambling old cod epics.

Happy easter.

Happy Passover

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We have ancients talking of flying vehicles called Vimanas, weapons of mass destruction called Brahmastras, Ape like humanoids called Vanaras, generation of electricity by using batteries called Mithra-Varuna, and descriptions of ancient and glorious civilizations and the events linked with them described in both these epics.

Who is "we?"

I'll wait for the English translation, though I wouldn't be that surprised if this were true.. However, at this time, there exists no credible source for this in any language I can read. None. Everything leads back to a pseudohistorian (AA proponent) named Andrew Tomas.

I don't believe Thomas.

Harte

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Posted (edited)

Who is "we?"

I'll wait for the English translation, though I wouldn't be that surprised if this were true.. However, at this time, there exists no credible source for this in any language I can read. None. Everything leads back to a pseudohistorian (AA proponent) named Andrew Tomas.

I don't believe Thomas.

Harte

Your wait is over :) I don't know who Andrew Thomas is, but Kisari Mohan Ganguli translated it back in 1883 - 1896

http://en.wikipedia....sh_translations

Edit: fixed link.

Edited by Lemieux

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Thanks, Lemieux, but the subjectI was talking about is supposedly inthe Agastya Sahmhita, not the Mahabharata.

I meant the battery thing, not the Vimanas, which the Hindus claimed in the Mahabharata were invented by the "clever Greeks" anyway, and thus we can discard the idea.

Yeah, I've had a few go-arounds with posters here about Ganguli. Try the search function if you're interested. I thought it was funny.

Harte

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Posted (edited)

Rakshasa were shape shifters who took hideous forms ,and smelled quite horrific . I have ne er heard of them classified as human . They can take human form though .

This is the first I've heard of Rashasas being humans too. The second link on the OP (Post#1) says that Rama had to cleanse himself because he was planning to kill Ravana, who was a Brahman.

Ravana's body was placed on the rock at Yahangala for his subjects to pay their last respects. Since Ravana was a Brahmin, it was considered a sin to kill him, even in battle. To wash off the sin, Rama performed puja at the Munneswaram temple in Chilaw, 80 km north of Colombo.

http://www.stephen-k..._or_fiction.htm

The problem with assuming that epics like the Ramayana and Mahabharata are based on real events is that every single culture in the world has such a historical story of creation or their ancestors. Just because the Hindus created a calendar and cosmology that has many details and many correlations with real places does not automatically make it true.

I'd like to see 1 million year old evidence, or even 100,000 year old evidence, of vast cities and technical civilzations.

Edited by DieChecker
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