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Moon Gazer

Amanda Knox & Raffaele Sollecito re-trial

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Posted (edited)

Just a little information on double-jeopardy since everyone's throwing that term around:

Determining when jeopardy terminates is no less important than determining when it begins, but it is a little more complicated. Once jeopardy has terminated, the government cannot detain someone for additional court proceedings on the same matter without raising double jeopardy questions. If jeopardy does not terminate at the conclusion of one proceeding, jeopardy is said to be "continuing," and further criminal proceedings are permitted. Jeopardy can terminate in four instances:


  • 1) after acquittal
    2) after dismissal
    3) after a mistrial
    4) on appeal after conviction

Source

Since this is a case being appealed, double-jeopardy does not apply.

Further, if this an appeal to a higher court, it will be considered the same trial and double-jeopardy won't apply.

Edited by Lady Kasey
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Yeah I'm afraid the U.S. Government over here isn't going to bother extraditing her for the Italians. They never do it for any other country.

I'm pretty sure most of the Europeans, by now can tell how much the U.S. Government gives a crap about stuff like that. But maybe one day some of us insignificant peons over here can get things like that changed, but don't hold your breathe. That may take a whole change in government before something like that is even looked at.

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I rest my case.

BOTH trials said to have serious flaws in them, yet you know for sure she is innocent?

Is it like America knows everyone held without trial in guantanamo bay is guilty?

That and the fact that none of her DNA or fingerprints were found anywhere near the victim's body, but plenty of DNA of the man currently in jail(Rudy Guede) was found in and around her as well as a bloody handprint on her pillow matching his hand. This same man was also caught trying to flee the country with the victim's laptop and also confessed to the murder. As well as many other relevant facts I don't feel need to be listed.

What else is there to say?

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Posted (edited)

That and the fact that none of her DNA or fingerprints were found anywhere near the victim's body, but plenty of DNA of the man currently in jail(Rudy Guede) was found in and around her as well as a bloody handprint on her pillow matching his hand. This same man was also caught trying to flee the country with the victim's laptop and also confessed to the murder. As well as many other relevant facts I don't feel need to be listed.

What else is there to say?

I agree Amanda and her boy friend were there but to dugged up to know what was going on. The roommate`s boyfriend was most likey the killer, but in to reopening the case they have to present some new evidence, wonder what it is.

Edited by docyabut2

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Yeah I'm afraid the U.S. Government over here isn't going to bother extraditing her for the Italians. They never do it for any other country.

I'm pretty sure most of the Europeans, by now can tell how much the U.S. Government gives a crap about stuff like that. But maybe one day some of us insignificant peons over here can get things like that changed, but don't hold your breathe. That may take a whole change in government before something like that is even looked at.

I wonder how different it would have worked out if the victim was an American and the accused British?

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Someone is guilty, exactly who I dont know but the victim and her family is entitled to some justice...I think its far too late for that after such a farce.just how the courts get to the bottom of this case is beyond me.

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I agree Amanda and her boy friend were there but to dugged up to know what was going on. The roommate`s boyfriend was most likey the killer, but in to reopening the case they have to present some new evidence, wonder what it is.

And what would they have been drugged up on that made them so incoherent they were in a black out state? There was no evidence they were in a black out state or unable to comprehend what was going on around them.

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Someone is guilty, exactly who I dont know but the victim and her family is entitled to some justice...I think its far too late for that after such a farce.just how the courts get to the bottom of this case is beyond me.

The guilty person is already in an italian jail. Has been for several years.

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I wasn't there so I don't know who is guilty, and who isn't...if the Italians feel Amanda had some involvement, then they are entitled to put the evidence to her, she was found guilty initially and released, now they say the release was based on a flawed premise, its certainly an odd case. I'm of the opinion she should face the accusations but would it be a fair re trail ?

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I wasn't there so I don't know who is guilty, and who isn't...if the Italians feel Amanda had some involvement, then they are entitled to put the evidence to her, she was found guilty initially and released, now they say the release was based on a flawed premise, its certainly an odd case. I'm of the opinion she should face the accusations but would it be a fair re trail ?

I don't think it's an odd case. I think it's a case where the police didn't do their job, the prosecution is psychotic (as seen in other trials he's botched and put other innocent people in jail for crimes they didn't commit), there is no evidence! All there is is a lot of tabloid stories and slander against the accused which was perpetrated by the police and prosecution!

THAT is NOT allowed in the USA. In fact, if the prosecution or police slandered a defendant the way the Italians did, here in the USA. the judge would be forced to call a mistrial.

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Regardless the trial begins 26th I think Its defo going to be interesting to see what happens ?

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I wonder how different it would have worked out if the victim was an American and the accused British?

I'll give ya a hint, Skookum. Depends partly on who it was that got killed. If it was somebody that was a U.S. criminal or from a very poor family in the U.S. that got killed, the accused probably wouldn't have too much to worry about. But if that person's family was rich and has some financial pull with the U.S. Government over in the states. Meaning if the American family are rich elitist, maybe even political elitist, usually both is the case, then probably the accused Brit doesn't have a chance. Unless...and here is the kicker...the accused Brit also has a rich family ( having political ties as a bonus) as well. Then he/she may not have to worry, well at least about a extradition to the U.S.

See in this world, money talks and everything else walks! Not just in the U.S. Doesn't matter who or what your nationality is, whether your guilty or not guilty, but it matters how much money you have and even better, possibly how much of a political influence in politics you have; but usually the money does the most talking. So whomever has the biggest piggy bank, usually wins most things in their favor. Yet it might leave them broke in the end, because their freedom came at a high cost.

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The guilty person is already in an italian jail. Has been for several years.

If the Italians are as incompetent and as psycho as you say, how do you know for sure that the guy they currently have in jail is indeed guilty? (lol)

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If the Italians are as incompetent and as psycho as you say, how do you know for sure that the guy they currently have in jail is indeed guilty? (lol)

Because all the evidence and DNA they collected at the original crime scene points to him and both sides agree that he was there and his man material was found all over her and in her, for that, there was no question. There was ZERO evidence that Knox had ever even been in her roommates bedroom, not even a single fingerprint was found.

A kitchen knife was found in Sollecito' kitchen, in a drawer, and initially the prosecution said Knox's DNA was on that knife... but Knox had used that knife several times, and, there was no blood found on it, and, there's no evidence that it was the murder weapon, in fact there's fairly clear evidence that the knife found in Sollecito's apartment wasn't the murder weapon at all. It was too big. They've never found the murder weapon. What trace amount of DNA was found on the too big knife, was so low level, it's not even admissible in US courts. This was something the Prosecutor failed to share with the defense.

The labs also say they detected Knox's and Sollecito's DNA on a bra strap... except the enormous problem here is that evidence wasn't collected util almost 2 months AFTER the murder. The chain of evidnece was completely broken, and like the knife, there wans't a complete enough profile to actually tie anyone to it because the sample was so minute. The DNA evidence and lack of it, is the primary reason their convictions were overturned. Without it there is no other evidence to tie them to the crime. Make no mistake though, Guede's DNA evidence was there, it was larger than life and a complete profile could be derived from it. It's reasonable to conclude that the man who raped Kercher likey killed her as well.

They also had a serious problem with the time of death timeline and alibis. The only witness who claims to have seen both Knox and Sollecito around the time of the of the murder turned out to be an alcohol soaked, homeless heroin addict. I'm sure he was totally reliable. Ha. Not too mention that he didn't turn up as a witness until many months later either. <Sarchasm> I'm sure his memory is totally clear about what he saw </sarchasm>

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It's interesting but no-one ever appears to come out and say Knox and Sollecito are innocent. Just that they were found not guilty.

Because of faulty DNA testing by the Italian authorities.

From Sollecito's little money making tome published last year. http://www.theaustra...o-1226607349130

“Of all the things that Amanda did that day, nothing attracted more criticism than her failure to raise the alarm as soon as she saw so many things out of place,” wrote Mr Sollecito in his 2012 memoir.

“It wasn't just the police who... could not fathom how she could go ahead with her shower after finding blood on the tap, much less put her wet feet on the bath mat, which was also stained, and drag it across the floor,” he said.

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Posted (edited)

No matter what any of us think about her guilt or innocence, according to this article I read earlier, her Italian lawyer says nothing will happen until the end of 2013 or beginning of 2014. And the article I read yesterday said she doesn't need to be there for this first part of the retrial and the outcome of that will determine whether extradition will come into play.

Also from the Yahoo article previously linked:

Dalla Vedova [Knox's Italian lawyer] said the high court's decision does not raise a double jeopardy problem because the retrial would not be a new case but rather a continuation of the same case on appeal.
Other defendants who have been acquitted in other countries and then convicted on appeal have attempted to raise the double jeopardy principle to avoid extradition, without much success, said Mary Fan, a law professor at the University of Washington who specializes in cross-border criminal law.
While the issue is rare in the United States, several courts have rejected the double jeopardy argument in similar cases. In 2010, a federal court in California found that a man who was acquitted of murder in Mexico and later convicted after prosecutors appealed the acquittal, could not claim double jeopardy to avoid extradition to Mexico. That court cited a 1974 decision from the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York, that reached the same conclusion with respect to Canadian law, which also allows the government to appeal an acquittal.
Edited by Lady Kasey
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Posted (edited)

So, if it is not considered double jeopardy and it is more of a reversal of her appeal (not a new trial) would the USA extradite her then?

And if they decided to reverse the appeal, I assume that with Sollecito still living in Italy he would just go straight back to jail?

All sounds very confusing to me!

Edited by Moon Gazer

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That last bit I quoted pretty much answers your question.

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Posted (edited)

So, if it is not considered double jeopardy and it is more of a reversal of her appeal (not a new trial) would the USA extradite her then?

And if they decided to reverse the appeal, I assume that with Sollecito still living in Italy he would just go straight back to jail?

All sounds very confusing to me!

Knox will never in a million years be extradited. Sollecito would be wise to get the hell out of Dodge though. Although, oddly, the Italian press and courts don't seem to be as interested in him as they are her... and for no good reason. It just goes to prove what a freak show they have going on.

The Mexican case which was mentioned I remember. If I'm not mistaken, that was a case where the evidence presented at the trial proved he committed the murder. There was no real question about it at all. It was a massive miscarriage that he was acquitted at all. So, the US sent him back to face his punishment. This is NOT the case for Knox. In Knox's case, there's virtually no evidence and what they do have is so badly tainted it's a joke. Extradition treaties are not black and white either.

Unless the Italians come up with their smoking gun proving her guiltly beyond a shadow of doubt, she's staying put in West Seattle forever.

And, if I'm not mistaken, the attorney mentioned above, Mary Fan, is working on Knox's behalf.

Edited by MissMelsWell
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Yesterday they were saying she could be extradited. I think she paid someone to kill her. i wouldn't be surprised that she was part of some sort of cover up.

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Yesterday they were saying she could be extradited. I think she paid someone to kill her. i wouldn't be surprised that she was part of some sort of cover up.

Who's "they" ? LOL.

And, frankly, she didn't have enough money to pay anyone to do anything.

IF they reverse the acquittal, they could ask for an extradition. Mostly likely, the Italians would not want to start an international incident, so they probably wouldn't even ask. And if they did, all signs point to the US telling the Italians to take a hike.

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Knox will never in a million years be extradited. Sollecito would be wise to get the hell out of Dodge though. Although, oddly, the Italian press and courts don't seem to be as interested in him as they are her... and for no good reason. It just goes to prove what a freak show they have going on.

The Mexican case which was mentioned I remember. If I'm not mistaken, that was a case where the evidence presented at the trial proved he committed the murder. There was no real question about it at all. It was a massive miscarriage that he was acquitted at all. So, the US sent him back to face his punishment. This is NOT the case for Knox. In Knox's case, there's virtually no evidence and what they do have is so badly tainted it's a joke. Extradition treaties are not black and white either.

Unless the Italians come up with their smoking gun proving her guiltly beyond a shadow of doubt, she's staying put in West Seattle forever.

And, if I'm not mistaken, the attorney mentioned above, Mary Fan, is working on Knox's behalf.

So if Mary Fan isn't a professor and is one of Knox's attorneys, why would she point out that others who have tried to claim double-jeopardy for the same reason weren't successful?? And what do you base your opinion of her not being extradited "in a million years" on, exactly?

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Posted (edited)

So if Mary Fan isn't a professor and is one of Knox's attorneys, why would she point out that others who have tried to claim double-jeopardy for the same reason weren't successful?? And what do you base your opinion of her not being extradited "in a million years" on, exactly?

If I recall correctly, Mary Fan is BOTH an attorney and a professor... she is not Knox's attorney, but she may be one of the consulting lawyers on her case. I'm not clear what her current role is with Amandas case if any... Fan is however, a professor at the UofW where Knox currently attends college. I would guess that Fan is speaking the truth. Most Double-Jeopardy claims are not successful. Although most of the legal community is hazzarding guesses that the US government won't extradite her based on a lack of evidence proving her guilt.

In other cases, in which people have been extridited despite claiming double-jeopardy, the evidence was clearer. Such as the Mexican case.

Edited by MissMelsWell

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Who's "they" ? LOL.

And, frankly, she didn't have enough money to pay anyone to do anything.

IF they reverse the acquittal, they could ask for an extradition. Mostly likely, the Italians would not want to start an international incident, so they probably wouldn't even ask. And if they did, all signs point to the US telling the Italians to take a hike.

Some American journalist

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