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Free guns for high-crime Neighborhoods

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Posted (edited)

You're trying to turn this into a personal thing whilst im talking about common psychological factors. Adrenaline pumps more when going into a high risk situation then when going into a situation where you are more inclined to think you will be able to overpower the situation.You're less inclined to use excessive force. Don't try to turn this into a blame game. Very simplistic reduction, that isn't even a redution, it's changing the subject into something you feel is easier to discuss.

There is nothing personal about it. You are justifying a criminal using a gun, while breaking into someone's home, because the homeowner may be armed. You are free to respond, in any way you wish, to a threat in your home. I, for one, don't care to have a sit down and ask why a strange person is in my house.

Edited by Michelle
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The vast majority of gun deaths in the US are from gang violence. They are constantly killing each other and some of them have to kill someone to make it into the gang. These deaths rarely make the news, if it did its brief and they probably wouldn't even mention it was gang related. The accidental deaths, suicides and nuts going off on a rampage is but a small fraction of deaths but they make the news.

Then there's the people that have to defend themselves and those that came to the aid of a police officer. There was no death because an average law abiding person had a gun and the offender backed off, those are rarely mentioned too.

At first deaths might go up until the criminal realized people were fighting back but in the long run I bet the neighborhood would become much safer.

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There is nothing personal about it. You are justifying a criminal using a gun, while breaking into someone's home, because the homeowner may be armed. You are free to respond, in any way you wish, to a threat in your home. I, for one, don't care to have a sit down and ask why a strange person is in my house.

There's a difference to trying to talk about/ explain the possible reasoning the body and mind goes through and justifying an act. You don't get this, as many irrational people don't. Sadly they are often the ones to pull the trigger isntead of actually thinking things through. But whatever, put on the blinds and whatever you do don't think! Someone might call you a justifier of murder if you try adn think about things! Pure evil.

If someone explains that drinking and driving is a bad idea because your decision making skills and attention are impaired by drinking alcohol . That is not the same as justifying a drunk driver hitting another car.

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So because you aren't "planning to be in an accident" you think you shouldn't strap on your safety belt? This shouldn't be a norm, because of the "few" that get killed because of it? Rrrrright.

So you're not "planning to have a tragic acciddent' so there shouldn't be any rules about safely locking them away or heavy training to learn how to operate a gun. Okay, makes perfect sense....if you can predict the future.

And since you're not planning to ever drink and drive (rrrrriiight) there shouldn't be laws about police being able to alcohol checks.

Great fantasy world you got there.

You sure are reading allot into my words. My point is that a nut who kills a bunch of people should not dictate that I cannot own a gun.

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There's a difference to trying to talk about/ explain the possible reasoning the body and mind goes through and justifying an act. You don't get this, as many irrational people don't. Sadly they are often the ones to pull the trigger isntead of actually thinking things through. But whatever, put on the blinds and whatever you do don't think! Someone might call you a justifier of murder if you try adn think about things! Pure evil.

If someone explains that drinking and driving is a bad idea because your decision making skills and attention are impaired by drinking alcohol . That is not the same as justifying a drunk driver hitting another car.

You sound like an enabler, but you may not know that term.

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You sound like an enabler, but you may not know that term.

So, explaining things is enabling. So according to you, lets carry on with the alcohol example, explaining someone what alcohol does to the mind is enabling them?

So according to you every rehab centre or medical facility is now an enabler centre.

Okay :tu:

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So, explaining things is enabling. So according to you, lets carry on with the alcohol example, explaining someone what alcohol does to the mind is enabling them?

So according to you every rehab centre or medical facility is now an enabler centre.

Okay :tu:

I don't recall metioning any of the above. Where did you pull that out of your behind?

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So, explaining things is enabling. So according to you, lets carry on with the alcohol example, explaining someone what alcohol does to the mind is enabling them?

So according to you every rehab centre or medical facility is now an enabler centre.

Okay :tu:

I guess we need to know where you stand. Do you think people should be allowed to own guns? Do you just think better background checks are needed. Do you think you should have to go through a training course in order to buy a gun? There are many levels. Are you against a person who passes a background check and has no criminal history should be denied a gun?

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I don't recall metioning any of the above. Where did you pull that out of your behind?

If you can't understand simple analogies you should really rethink what you have said so far in this thread.

So why would you say im an enabler? And remember, i already wrote down how thinking&discussing things isn't equal to justifying it. Because otherwise every court that thinks something through should acquit a criminal because according to you thinking about things is justifying them. Very irrational :rolleyes:

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I guess we need to know where you stand. Do you think people should be allowed to own guns? Do you just think better background checks are needed. Do you think you should have to go through a training course in order to buy a gun? There are many levels. Are you against a person who passes a background check and has no criminal history should be denied a gun?

I'll answer them in order. Yes, Yes, Yes, and the last question deserves a longer answer because i can't answer that with yes or no.

I don't believe passing a background check and having no criminal history is sufficient for being allowed to hold a gun. As proven by the many nutbags who for example gave their children guns to school to "protect them". That's retarded.

So i would opt for heavier training over a longer period of time so one truly learns how to operate and safely keep a weapon. Theoretical and practical exams, that should be repeated (dependend on the weapon and nature of usage) every 5 to 10 years. So all the knowledge stays fresh in the mind, and there is less chance a numbnut gives guns to children to go to school. Also a medical exam of course.

And i don't know why some ppl take such isue with this. Especially the ones who don't feel they should go through extensive training. I don't get that...you buy a gun, then it would be logical to assume you wish to use it or know how to handle it. Training is a great experience, and you get to use the gun, not buy it and put it away in the dressor.

The impulse buys and shootings have lesser chance of happening. With all the training, administration, financial input etc a person has to go through before they can take the gun home with them.

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Personaly there is no way Im going through gun training. Especialy every few years. It would certainly be at my expence, and Im more then capable of handling a gun, and teaching my sons how to properly handle a gun. The hunters safety course is just fine. Now I definitly think a program like that should be available to folks who feel they could benefit from it though.

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It's so large with more diverse groups? Hello? Europe?

The argument that the US is larger than other countries doesn't seem to hold up when you compare by rate of 100 000 ppl. The US still trumps most.

Europe isn't a country...... lol Country borders are not the same as state borders. But if you want to use that then Switzerland does not have strict gun control laws.... Their crime rates are very low in comparison to other countries.

So you're bassically saying that Americans are intrinsically more violent and awful that when stricter gun control rules would be imposed everyone would just die in a matter of months.

Because that scenario certainly doesn't happen in the rest of the world.

And to say that a myriad of horrible crimes wouldn't happen if only everyone had a gun is .. so not an argument. In that logic, everyone who already does crime and would use a knife or other means would then use a gun and just make everything 10 times worse. You can do more damage with a gun than a knife in a shorter period of time, there's no refuting that.

Just like you say if there are less guns there will be more knives .. the opposite can be said as well, if guns are allowed they'll replace all the other things and make everything way worse.

There was a case of a guy in Europe who killed and harmed babies with a knife not too long ago. He mentioned in court or to his lawyer that he was mad at the government that he couldn't get access to guns, because he actually wanted to do way more damage.

So that's better according to you? Just preposterous, truly mad.

I never said any of that so you you haven't made any point there towards what I said... Well done on typing a huge paragraph of uselessness to the discussion. I will however mention that if guns where legal, then some law abiding citizen would have probably shot him before he even hit the number of killings he did. Also I'd much rather be shot than stabbed if I was going to die. You ever been stabbed? It's not nice...

Shootings come down to a lot of factors, exactly..so why don't you realise there is a psychological factor involved when a burglar knows he is entering a home where there is a 99% chance the owners are armed, that this burglar will be more inclined to use immediate violence and shoot?

When a burglar knows he is entering a home where the owners are most likely not armed there is less reason to escalate the factor and just do a burglary.

Common freaking sense.

Oh really?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-25671/Violent-crime-worse-Britain-US.html

If you say so....

Also we hear a lot of stories about old people being beaten up by gangs/burglars here, in the US the old people shoot them.

I'd rather some scummy gits who would even think about harming an old man or lady be shot dead than actually get away with doing it.

I don't recall metioning any of the above. Where did you pull that out of your behind?

He keeps doing that to me, saying I said things that where not even implied.

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Europe isn't a country...... lol Country borders are not the same as state borders. But if you want to use that then Switzerland does not have strict gun control laws.... Their crime rates are very low in comparison to other countries.

(...)

The gun cotrol laws in Switzerland are not as lax as you think, and rather strict in comparison to US laws.

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The gun cotrol laws in Switzerland are not as lax as you think, and rather strict in comparison to US laws.

Well they are given automatic guns. They can use them as home defense can't they? I know they don't have a standing army and that is the real reason for it.

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Europe isn't a country...... lol Country borders are not the same as state borders. But if you want to use that then Switzerland does not have strict gun control laws.... Their crime rates are very low in comparison to other countries.

I never said any of that so you you haven't made any point there towards what I said... Well done on typing a huge paragraph of uselessness to the discussion. I will however mention that if guns where legal, then some law abiding citizen would have probably shot him before he even hit the number of killings he did. Also I'd much rather be shot than stabbed if I was going to die. You ever been stabbed? It's not nice...

Oh really?

http://www.dailymail...Britain-US.html

If you say so....

Also we hear a lot of stories about old people being beaten up by gangs/burglars here, in the US the old people shoot them.

I'd rather some scummy gits who would even think about harming an old man or lady be shot dead than actually get away with doing it.

He keeps doing that to me, saying I said things that where not even implied.

Im not "doing anything to you". Haha.

It's called associative thinking and making analogies to explain to you how absurd your reasoning is.

But if it obviously all goes over your head, fine. Then our discussion is at an end.

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Posted (edited)

Well they are given automatic guns. They can use them as home defense can't they? I know they don't have a standing army and that is the real reason for it.

The Swiss have mandatory military service. So they adequatly train to handle guns and high risk situations. Then those that served get to take their gun home. They don't just give away guns there no questions asked. Ugh.

You know, like ... what i was saying about that more training is obviously necessary in the States.

So thanks for proving my point. Switzerland is super safe, because they know how to handle guns.

Edited by Render
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Posted (edited)

Im not "doing anything to you". Haha.

It's called associative thinking and making analogies to explain to you how absurd your reasoning is.

But if it obviously all goes over your head, fine. Then our discussion is at an end.

No you where saying I said things which i clearly didn't.

The Swiss have mandatory military service. So they adequatly train to handle guns and high risk situations. You know, like ... what i was saying about that more training is obviously necessary in the States.

So thanks for proving my point. Switzerland is super safe, because they know how to handle guns.

Most people who own guns legally in the US train with them.

Edited by Coffey
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Posted (edited)

No you where saying I said things which i clearly didn't.

No......i made a point in saying that what you say is LIKE saying the analogy. That's how it works when you make an analogy, you say something and then say it is the same AS the original thing that was said. It is to prove a point. But if that person doesn't get that point, whatever.

Most people who own guns legally in the US train with them.

Most, that 's the problem. It should be mandatory. And it should be better training, cuz obviously many don't really know what to do with it.

Edited by Render

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Well they are given automatic guns. They can use them as home defense can't they? I know they don't have a standing army and that is the real reason for it.

No, they cannot. They have their automatic rifles because they are an active part of a militia. They have mandatory military training once a year. And their bullets are all canned, and only to be used for militia operations.

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Cousins, can you invite a pest of a neighbour into your home, shoot them dead, claim that you never invited them and that they were trespassing and get away with it? (I'd love to do that)

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Posted (edited)

If you can't understand simple analogies you should really rethink what you have said so far in this thread.

So why would you say im an enabler? And remember, i already wrote down how thinking&discussing things isn't equal to justifying it. Because otherwise every court that thinks something through should acquit a criminal because according to you thinking about things is justifying them. Very irrational :rolleyes:

There is a huge difference between being in a courtroom and a life or death situation.

Let me give you an analogy. You feel safe and secure in your home and there is some sicko whose sole purpose, or thrill in life, is to rape or kill you or your family. Not to steal a few trinkets, but to do some serious harm. At that point in time, do you really care what kind of childhood trama they went through? You are going to be worried about the stress they are under because you may have a gun in your house? More importantly, how do you determine which is which?

I'm not ashamed to say they will go out feet first if I have anything to do with it. I don't live in fear, but that doesn't mean I'm not prepared.

Edited by Michelle
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There is a huge difference between being in a courtroom and a life or death situation.

Let me give you an analogy. You feel safe and secure in your home and there is some sicko whose sole purpose, or thrill in life, is to rape or kill you or your family. Not to steal a few trinkets, but to do some serious harm. At that point in time, do you really care what kind of childhood trama they went through? You are going to be worried about the stress they are under because you may have a gun in your house?

I'm not ashamed to say they will go out feet first if I have anything to do with it. I don't live in fear, but that doesn't mean I'm not prepared.

I think every single American should have a gun or 20. Im just glad I live in a place where I don`t need one.

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I think every single American should have a gun or 20. Im just glad I live in a place where I don`t need one.

Unfortunately, our family home's neighborhood has gone through many changes. It went from being one of the most prestigious neighborhoods, a long time ago, to one of the most dangerous and now back to one of the most desirable places to live. We've gone against drug dealers and pimps to the point where I've sat up all night with a gun next to me because of the threats. I was even afraid of leaving a huge Malamute outside because of what someone might do to him. It's been pretty comfortable for the last fifteen years, but I probably won't ever be complacent.

I'm really glad we have neighbors that we can count on to help keep an eye on everything.

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Unfortunately, our family home's neighborhood has gone through many changes. It went from being one of the most prestigious neighborhoods, a long time ago, to one of the most dangerous and now back to one of the most desirable places to live. We've gone against drug dealers and pimps to the point where I've sat up all night with a gun next to me because of the threats. I was even afraid of leaving a huge Malamute outside because of what someone might do to him. It's been pretty comfortable for the last fifteen years, but I probably won't ever be complacent.

I'm really glad we have neighbors that we can count on to help keep an eye on everything.

As I said and be as safe as possible buy more guns as it`s your nation and your culture to feel safe with more guns. Im glad I dont need that no matter what part of town I live in with a pop of 1.2 million. You need a gun I have no reason to say you don`t. I live in a place that guns are not as much a worry let alone a thought. Gives me concern that I live 200 km from a potential civial war.

We know each other and have talked for years hun. I realy hope the schit plays out nice xoxox

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As I said and be as safe as possible buy more guns as it`s your nation and your culture to feel safe with more guns. Im glad I dont need that no matter what part of town I live in with a pop of 1.2 million. You need a gun I have no reason to say you don`t. I live in a place that guns are not as much a worry let alone a thought. Gives me concern that I live 200 km from a potential civial war.

We know each other and have talked for years hun. I realy hope the schit plays out nice xoxox

No worries, mon. ;)

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