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Born of water

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Hi Sherapy,

For example: there was a time when materiality (materialism) was everything to me. I had more than many people could ever say. Some even say that I had the best of everything. Everything revolved around keeping this ideal going. Unlike the saving grace of Jesus (God, the Holy Spirit), things change, fall away, etcetera. Physical death has a way of shifting things, or at least, the last time I died started my "real" spirituality, even though I wasn't fully in sync with it at that time. It did haunt me, and I could only be so grateful for it.

LINK: http://www.unexplain...c=242570&st=120

That was just the beginning. After several years went by after coming back to life, I also started losing my precious "things," the tangible "objects" (of my affection) to which I had invested my existence on earth. I'm very conservative when it comes to the "things" I value, but alas, even my careful planning and hard work (slaving away) and brilliant mind and belief in my Self (the "god" in me, a la New Age)...didn't prevent the seemingly neverending collapse, my situation. A modern day Jonah?? (The Book of Jonah parallels my life's story in many ways, or at least the horrors he went through, but in my case, God didn't have a role because of "free choice." I was not a practicing Christian during these "bad" years; therefore, my "free choice" was still intact.) Circle of life, things going in cycles?? The "idols" I had built were destroyed (in my heart!), lost, BUT it's like a passing nightmare once I regained my religious sanity. Truth is, we're all going to lose everything one day. Doors sealed shut but a profound one opens "...to rule them all."

Salvation.

It's a transformation because I'm not in heaven yet. I'm still growing in Christ, becoming Christ-like through the Holy Spirit's guidance. I know my limitations, and that's a blessing (or growth) in itself. The older I get, the more obvious and in-yer-face they become. It is important to know one's limitations. It's the only way to move forward. The time we have on earth is a purification process because our destiny is to become a spirit one day. It's inevitable. Spirit is NOT tangible; therefore, if one still has (earthly, material, physical) INTENSE cravings...go figure. Plus, in the Void, one's senses (including psychic senses, no doubt) are completely useless, for one is totally alone, unless...

Again, every "thing" will fall away one day. One should prepare oneself. The Bible speaks loudly to me, above the rest. Besides, Jesus Christ was there to remove me from that Void. Yes, He has my full allegiance, regardless. That's my bottomline. On the other hand, when I recently realized that He has brought "hope" into my heart, that was the time I became I Christian. This "hope" is to be in paradise with Jesus Christ's everlasting "unconditional love" presence. This "hope" truth came out of nowhere.

Speaking of transformation in motion, I'm traveling lightly nowadays...not just figuratively.

God bless you.

Ah, I get it you had a perspective change and are well on your way to cultivating ego integrity. For me, this is quite common as a result of near death experiences or other life altering events. One tends to meet up with this sense of gratitude that was not in full bloom prior. Personally, I do not think the path is as important as the actions ones takes as a result of their experiences. I think the path is a matter of fit more then anything else. All the best to you and enjoy. Thank you for sharing.

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Posted (edited)

Ah, I get it you had a perspective change and are well on your way to cultivating ego integrity. For me, this is quite common as a result of near death experiences or other life altering events. One tends to meet up with this sense of gratitude that was not in full bloom prior. Personally, I do not think the path is as important as the actions ones takes as a result of their experiences. I think the path is a matter of fit more then anything else. All the best to you and enjoy. Thank you for sharing.

Hi Sherapy,

"Ego integrity" makes it sound so neat and simple. Plus, my definition of "ego" is not the same as Erikson's. When I think of "ego," I see it through the eyes of an "Awakened" being (as in "Awakening"). Therefore, my existence on earth (now) has nothing to do with "ego." I'm looking at my life nowadays through the lens of my eternal "presence" (soul). The old braveone2u (it's old "story"), before the Lazarus Syndrome, is really dead. The braveone2u nowadays has no "ego," intrinsically.

My "path," even though it has a brand called Christianity, is strictly based on my in-yer-face contact with that wonderful Being, who exuded this "unconditional love" presence, while I was in the Void. Also, the "Holy Spirit" has added me to His list, so to speak. My actual "path" is to know everything about this wonderful Being, who saved me from that place of utter nothingness. The Christian Bible is a road to learn about this wonderful Being. I also have my Kundalini Yoga Meditation Teacher credential (and it's nothing to sneeze at). I was also a Feng Shui wizard. I'm constantly learning about ancient Gods, etc. I'm a man of many gifts, not to mention being a prodigy and a published writer. In short, I have all these things to learn about this SAVIOR of my "presence."

Forming another "ego" is the last thing I need. I hope I don't have another lifetime. :lol:Have you ever heard the concept of "awakening" (as in Bart Marshall)?

There's so much to learn and I'm going to spend the rest of my lifetime learning about this wonderful Being. Some say it's made up of 2; however, I have only met one, and that was 13 years ago. Kind of late for "ego integrity," don't you think?

It's not enough to just read. One must have a personal encounter with the Being to whom one places one's trust and faith.

God bless you, Sherapy.

Edited by braveone2u

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Posted (edited)

There's an interesting film called The Ninth Gate by Roman Polanski. It's about how certain individuals change the original book's pictures, etc... Many versions were printed to deliberately confuse the seekers.

It's no different today, for we are all trying to find our way back to "paradise." Have you ever heard the saying, "There are no gifts -- you deserve everything you get"? There are certain people who hold piece(s) to solve the puzzle. And we have the miracle of the internet to share...truths or ideas. Plus, we have a ticking clock because we don't live very long -- a 100 years, perhaps, at most? Therefore, we really have to exploit this miracle called the internet.

Edited by braveone2u

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Who is born of water and spirit ?

Regeneration , born again : of water and spirit: born of God. This is Jesus doctrine. Water, Serpent is a symbol of spirituality , power, wave, electromagnetic spectrum. Snakes understands almost all kind of vibrations from sonic to cosmic rays. We are all the children of serpents, wisdom and love.

In Oromo and ancient Egyptian cosmology, Oromo or Atum created from or out of water. Oromo came from mada walaabu. Infinite ocean of water and spirit no one knows " where it comes from and where it is going. "

i think being born of water and being baptized symbolize a person who has loss conscience after being under water too long and a person who has been to the otha side

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Posted (edited)

I think maybe my problem with the cliche of Christians planting seeds, about as Bible as it gets, is the idea that they are doing "God's work," saving people "for God," and so on. This strikes me as arrogant to the point of being dangerous. What do you do if they reject God? Do you then continue doing "God's work" and destroy the infidels?

However, all I did was suggest he try to find something fresher: that it would be more effective. Actually such cliches -- even the ones you cited -- are painful to hear. Now of course a cliche to one person is an ancient word of wisdom to another -- I understand that.

The problem with language is it limits the experience. I'm planting the seed of "love," my heartfelt experiences. It doesn't have to be a Christian. If I hadn't told you my religion, you probably would have thanked me for being thoughtful; however, you made it clear that you have a "thing" about beliefs in general, even though you are full of your own beliefs. Knowing a little bit about your Vietnamese world, I somehow see where your coming from, but not completely because I have some Vietnamese friends who are not anti-beliefs. They also experienced the horrors of the Vietnam War...

Truth is, every time people communicate with one another, they plant a seed. It's inevitable.

Peace.

Edited by braveone2u

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I lose nothing " being too long in water " and Oromo born of water. We don't loss our conscience, soul. We are winner , not loser.

Jonah and Jesus been in water, tomb for three days - too long isn't ?

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Egyptian queen got Moses out of water, jonah was in water, earth came out of water in creation story in Genesis I. Fish can stay long in water , but man can't stay in water. If man been in water too long , he will "loss his conscience ", he will loss his soul. But Oromo/Man soul is immortal. Oromo a Man of Saffu is immortal. Immortal.

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Posted (edited)

I think maybe my problem with the cliche of Christians planting seeds, about as Bible as it gets, is the idea that they are doing "God's work," saving people "for God," and so on. This strikes me as arrogant to the point of being dangerous. What do you do if they reject God? Do you then continue doing "God's work" and destroy the infidels?

However, all I did was suggest he try to find something fresher: that it would be more effective. Actually such cliches -- even the ones you cited -- are painful to hear. Now of course a cliche to one person is an ancient word of wisdom to another -- I understand that.

What I do not understand is why, or how, words of truth or wisdom, whatever form they take, can be painful to you.

I would love to be able to get in your head and find out why you cringe at the use of cliches, while i just love them.

One man's cliche is another man's homily.

And of course you try to save people even when they dont want to be saved, but not to the extent of harming them while saving them. I once had to go out into the local ocean at night to save a woman who was trying to drown herself. She didn't want to be saved and resisted my efforts, but i hauled her out, literally kicking and screaming, anyway. She was suffering from postnatal depression and is alive and happy today.

The work of anyone who wants to get a new concept into the mind of another is very well described by the analogy of planting a seed. A very small seed in one's mind can grow into a very large and strong, and fruitful "bush", or construct, in a human mind.

There is nothing wrong with planting such a seed, in the hope the construct will grow from it. If it falls on sterile ground, it will not grow, anyway. If it is not nurtured, weeded, fertilised, loved and cared for, it also will not thrive and grow.

Edited by Mr Walker

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I was born in a Catholic institution (Vietnam had them back then under French rule) and when my mother was thought about to die and my father couldn't be contacted because of wartime conditions, the nuns baptized me, there being no priest available (I suffered what is called a "grand mal" and in an infant that small it can be fatal). (I long ago outgrew the epilepsy).

Well we all survived, and as I have the story the doctor was furious at the presumption of the nuns that my family was necessarily Catholic (which of course they were not). However, the Church provides no way to un-baptize someone, and once a Catholic always a Catholic.

How does that affect me, as someone baptized but not raised Catholic? I'm not sure as I've gotten differing views from different people, and of course don't much care except as a curiosity. The nuns had committed a sin but they no doubt confessed it and got absolved. Good for them.

This is kinda how I view this business of Christians and missionaries "planting seeds" in order to "save" you. It is not at all comparable to saving the depressive from a suicide they will later be happy you interceded in. If you plant seeds it seems to me you are also taking on the responsibility to make sure the baby is "raised a good Catholic," and if you are not in a position to be able to do that, then you have no business throwing around seeds.

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One man's cliche is another man's homily.

And of course you try to save people even when they dont want to be saved, but not to the extent of harming them while saving them. I once had to go out into the local ocean at night to save a woman who was trying to drown herself. She didn't want to be saved and resisted my efforts, but i hauled her out, literally kicking and screaming, anyway. She was suffering from postnatal depression and is alive and happy today.

The work of anyone who wants to get a new concept into the mind of another is very well described by the analogy of planting a seed. A very small seed in one's mind can grow into a very large and strong, and fruitful "bush", or construct, in a human mind.

There is nothing wrong with planting such a seed, in the hope the construct will grow from it. If it falls on sterile ground, it will not grow, anyway. If it is not nurtured, weeded, fertilised, loved and cared for, it also will not thrive and grow.

Hi Mr. Walker,

I can only speak for myself on this, but accepting Jesus Christ (in my heart), I feel it deep down that I'm accountable for the things I say, nowadays. It's never a cliche to be guided by the Holy Spirit, especially when one talks about one's relationship with Jesus Christ. Honesty with an element of the supernatural always has a way of breaking down the phoniness and saying it like it is. Therefore, it's the main reason for the Bible quotes because the words I say "must" reverberate His teachings since Jesus is the center of my existence. In fact, I'm guided, willingly to say those words. I suppose one should avoid a person who is entrenched in religiosity and devotion to his or her God. I wake up and sleep thinking about Jesus Christ. I have to follow my bliss, just like you follow your truths. It's definitely not being an automaton or a looping tape-recorder. Otherwise, the statements wouldn't have that impact to the listener. Honesty always comes out, for example, "I think beliefs are evil things that get in the way of clear thought," according to Frank. I would rather have honesty than a lie.

Besides, the Bible states them good and plenty. The words are music to my ears.

Peace to you, Mr. Walker.

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Posted (edited)

What is a "belief" and what is an "opinion?" A belief is something one accepts, as it were, in one's heart, mainly because one wants to believe it while an opinion is something one accepts in one's brain because the evidence is such that one has no choice but to accept it if one is intellectually honest.

Although indoctrination can occur at any age, most beliefs are views we acquired because of childhood indoctrination, before our ability to be skeptical had matured. Children believe what they are told, and we seem to have an instinct that reinforces these beliefs (makes us uncomfortable when we doubt them and gives us joy when we overcome our doubts) through our lives. This is the real reason irrational religious belief is able to perpetuate itself so well, and that these religions have geographical locals (Egyptians are Muslims, Indians are Hindus, etc.)

We should look at our beliefs and discern which are based on good reasons and which are just things we've been taught. This is difficult to do because we have this emotional link to our beliefs (probably evolved for group cohesion) and because we are not really aware of their existence -- they are like the chair we know is there but don't think about when we sit down unless there is something distinctive about it.

For example I grew up with the belief in the stupid woman in the moon holding it up (this is a Vietnamese bit) and had to realize this was just a belief without foundation that I wasn't even aware I believed until it was challenged in astronomy in college in the US (they all found this bit of folklore fascinating but I found it humiliating and quickly abandoned it as absurd considering everything else I had by then learned). Giving up the belief caused me pain, but was forced by my intellectual integrity.

Edited by Frank Merton

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Posted (edited)

Bliss is different than belief. Bliss has an element of encounter, first-hand knowledge. It's wrong to assume that all Christians base their relationship with Christ on "blind" faith (and yes, you didn't say blind faith).

Edited by braveone2u

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I was born in a Catholic institution (Vietnam had them back then under French rule) and when my mother was thought about to die and my father couldn't be contacted because of wartime conditions, the nuns baptized me, there being no priest available (I suffered what is called a "grand mal" and in an infant that small it can be fatal). (I long ago outgrew the epilepsy).

Well we all survived, and as I have the story the doctor was furious at the presumption of the nuns that my family was necessarily Catholic (which of course they were not). However, the Church provides no way to un-baptize someone, and once a Catholic always a Catholic.

How does that affect me, as someone baptized but not raised Catholic? I'm not sure as I've gotten differing views from different people, and of course don't much care except as a curiosity. The nuns had committed a sin but they no doubt confessed it and got absolved. Good for them.

This is kinda how I view this business of Christians and missionaries "planting seeds" in order to "save" you. It is not at all comparable to saving the depressive from a suicide they will later be happy you interceded in. If you plant seeds it seems to me you are also taking on the responsibility to make sure the baby is "raised a good Catholic," and if you are not in a position to be able to do that, then you have no business throwing around seeds.

Thanks for that background.It is a bit tricky commenting on another person's real and personal life exeriences, but being as I am, I will do so anyway.

Your were 'lucky" that you did not die and that you grew out of your epilepsy. Both of those alternate outcomes would have physically defined your life. Being baptised catholic is a little different. it is like being named by another, in that you had no say in it . As a young person it must have defined a part of your life, large or small,, but realy it is just like your name.ie A non physical limitation or label.

YOU can change your name, change your religion or give it up altogether. It is not true that being baptised a catholic makes you one for life, any more than being named at birth confers that name for your life if you do not like it.

I appreciate tha twithin your culture you may have had had less freedoms to change than within others like my own, but change is always possible even if it comes at a cost. Only you can decide what is right for you.

The nuns did what THEY thought was right for you, but as an adult only YOU can make those decisions. You do not ahve to be restricted by eithe the reality of catholicism, or the emotional and intellectual responses you have adopted to that faith.

I am sure that, in theory you know this, but in practice you might have struggled to free your self from the effects of your infant catholicism. NO ONE is who others desire them to be, only what they choose to be.

Why had the nuns commited a sin? Seems like they were trying to do the right thing by you, as they saw it and out of love /compassion. How can that be a sin?

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Posted (edited)

What is a "belief" and what is an "opinion?" A belief is something one accepts, as it were, in one's heart, mainly because one wants to believe it while an opinion is something one accepts in one's brain because the evidence is such that one has no choice but to accept it if one is intellectually honest.

Although indoctrination can occur at any age, most beliefs are views we acquired because of childhood indoctrination, before our ability to be skeptical had matured. Children believe what they are told, and we seem to have an instinct that reinforces these beliefs (makes us uncomfortable when we doubt them and gives us joy when we overcome our doubts) through our lives. This is the real reason irrational religious belief is able to perpetuate itself so well, and that these religions have geographical locals (Egyptians are Muslims, Indians are Hindus, etc.)

We should look at our beliefs and discern which are based on good reasons and which are just things we've been taught. This is difficult to do because we have this emotional link to our beliefs (probably evolved for group cohesion) and because we are not really aware of their existence -- they are like the chair we know is there but don't think about when we sit down unless there is something distinctive about it.

For example I grew up with the belief in the stupid woman in the moon holding it up (this is a Vietnamese bit) and had to realize this was just a belief without foundation that I wasn't even aware I believed until it was challenged in astronomy in college in the US (they all found this bit of folklore fascinating but I found it humiliating and quickly abandoned it as absurd considering everything else I had by then learned). Giving up the belief caused me pain, but was forced by my intellectual integrity.

Actually this is only true in part. Humans construct beliefs without any education or teaching in doing so. It is a natural part of our thought patterning and thinking process.

. So children do learn not learn to believe they are born with a mind that thinks in patterns of belief From the time it identifies Agents and mnon agents in its environment and begins atributing motivation to agents.

What they believe may be shaped by environment, but belief will occur any way. And adult humans have exactly the same propensity towards belief as children. It is just tha other learned thought processes and also socialised beliefs mitigate this in some people.

Modern humans are increasingly joining religious groups as adults not children, and some of the greatest increases in religion are occuring in places like china and africawhere adults are chosing a belie fbased life.

On present trends, 2/3 of humans will be either christian or muslim by 2050 and the number /percentage of humans professing a religious belief will have expanded considerably.

You have good persoanl reasons for relying on logic and rational thinking, but religion is often the result of logic and rational thinking. Even where it is not, it fits a need created in the form of human thinking, which exists from childhood to death, and THAT is the most likely reason why religious belief continues to grow, not because it is passed down from parents to children .

Ps I am sorry you were embarrased by your childhood beliefs, but not surprised Ridicule of belief is very common in some sections of society especially at university.This is less so today than it once was when i went to university as an atheist, and australia, as a multicultural society, now has laws protecting all belief forms, including none. .

All educated people know that we live on a disc world , riding on the back of a giant turtle, swimming through the space time continuum.

Edited by Mr Walker

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Actually this is only true in part. Humans construct beliefs without any education or teaching in doing so. It is a natural part of our thought patterning and thinking process.

. So children do learn not learn to believe they are born with a mind that thinks in patterns of belief From the time it identifies Agents and mnon agents in its environment and begins atributing motivation to agents.

What they believe may be shaped by environment, but belief will occur any way. And adult humans have exactly the same propensity towards belief as children. It is just tha other learned thought processes and also socialised beliefs mitigate this in some people.

On the other hand, "Truth" is relevant today and tomorrow, not just yesterday. There will always be people who will give credence to the "Truth" via first-hand accounts w/ book knowledge to give them weight. Therefore, "Truth" has continuity. I can see why there are those who say things from the Bible are cliche. Logic dictates, however, for the unbeliever to find out what the big deal is all about.

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Posted (edited)

On the other hand, "Truth" is relevant today and tomorrow, not just yesterday. There will always be people who will give credence to the "Truth" via first-hand accounts w/ book knowledge to give them weight. Therefore, "Truth" has continuity. I can see why there are those who say things from the Bible are cliche. Logic dictates, however, for the unbeliever to find out what the big deal is all about.

It is kind of "weird."

Stand in the centre of a truth and you not just recognise, but understand, it. Stand outside of it and you often cannot recognuise it, and certainly cannot comprehend it

The "gift of the spirit" is like this. Experience it, and you recognise and comprehend it. Not ever experience its power and transformative properties, and you probably will refuse to believe it even exists as a physical force.

You certainly will not be able to understand and comprehend its nature, power, abilities and potential. It is like the physical and transformative power of love, to person who has never experienced the full power of love.

Yet as far as i have experienced and understand it, the transformative and physical power of the spirit is the birthright and natural state of every human, just as that of love is. We just have to truly open ourselves to it and meet the requirements of self which enable it Ie. give up selfishness and the desires of self. Make our spirit a priority over materialism.

My wife long ago helped me appreciate one of the truths of the spirit. It is a self renewing property like love. The more you give away IN ANYTHING, from money to compassion and love, the more comes back to you.

The more power you give to others, the more you become empowered.

The more of your strength you give or lend to others, the stronger you become.

The more of your knolwedge and abilities you share, teach, and give to others, the more your knowledge and abilities grow; and so on.

Edited by Mr Walker

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What is this 'new' reality that you are accepting? Is this a waking up to your own sense of self efficacy? The transformation aspect doesn't make sense in practical terms for me. Thank you for answering.

Christianity isn't practical for people who are control freaks, greedy, materialistic, hateful, envious and overly skeptical of Jesus.

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Pilate question Abba mudda " what is truth ?" from thence he answered nothing, till Pilates marvel on his silence.

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Now the way I read that is that Pilate was way to sophisticated to "mavel" on his silence. He merely took it as demonstrating that Jesus had no answer to offer.

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Posted (edited)

What is this 'new' reality that you are accepting? Is this a waking up to your own sense of self efficacy? The transformation aspect doesn't make sense in practical terms for me. Thank you for answering.

I didnt see this post before but it connects to a point I made in another post. From outside, your description may be the only one you can see, but it is like asking a drug taker what transformation the drug creates, without taking it yourself.

They cant fully "explain" the physical and psychological transformations despite them being very rea.l Eg steroids can actualy change the body metabolism.

Other drugs cahnge the actual operation of our cognitive processes eliminating fear making us happy, less inhibited, or depressed. Some allow our mind to operate faster, others slow it down. MAny lead to mental illnesses such as schizophrenia and paranoia.

The spirit is like a physical drug and has physical effects. It is a real, powerful, and transforming energy force, which changes your physiology and your mental state or psychology.

Unlike chemical drugs it is natural; coming from within your own resources and body with ony the additional supplement of god's energy force and self awareness (which is also a natural part of being human.) It thus has no deleterious side effects, only positive ones. It is YOU enhanced by god. Not you enhanced by chemicals.

Anyone sharing their mind and body with the spirit is so empowered and fulfilled that they realise what it means to be fully human and also they need nothing else to enhance or add to their life such as nicotine alcohol or other mood changing drugs.

I guess it depends whether one can accept that god exists both inside us and all around us, and that we are actiually a part of god wheter we realise it or not. if you cant accpet this, it might seem like a form of possession from an external entity, but actually it is the most natural thing in the world and exists within all of us, waiting to be recognised and called forth.

Edited by Mr Walker

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Who is born of water and spirit ?

Regeneration , born again : of water and spirit: born of God. This is Jesus doctrine. Water, Serpent is a symbol of spirituality , power, wave, electromagnetic spectrum. Snakes understands almost all kind of vibrations from sonic to cosmic rays. We are all the children of serpents, wisdom and love.

In Oromo and ancient Egyptian cosmology, Oromo or Atum created from or out of water. Oromo came from mada walaabu. Infinite ocean of water and spirit no one knows " where it comes from and where it is going. "

Just like a flame of a candle can pass on from one candle to the next, so is the spirit born from one spirit to the next. You are born of the spirit (parents) and born of the water (womb). Unlike extraterrestrials, messengers (angels), Nephilim, and so on. But they try so hard to get in... they even resort to abducting men and women and creating hybrids.

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Posted (edited)

Since primeval times water and spirit have been recognised as very similar but opposite sides of the same coin. Both bring life and rejuvenation one physiclaly the othe rspiritually both flow ebb and change In christianity humans need to be washed, or born again, in water (physically) and in the spirit (spiritually) to cleanse and renew the whole body.

The process of physical birth, for early humans, probably created the concept of water being a vital fluid associated with birth. But also humans can't live long without water and so it would be observed early, that water was a critical need for a human being. A little water can often revive and revitalise a very ill or even an unconscious person who is dehydrated.

Water has always had a significant cleansing role in Judaism. Not only in the repeated washing of hands in the Temple procedures.... But the Jewish People also had spiritual baths they would take to cleanse themselves (cant remember what they're called) but it was a thing that had been around for a long time before Jesus's arrival in the flesh and teaching. You can find it in the Torah where one is commanded to bath and wash one's clothes/garments and bedding I believe if they are ever defiled in their sleep.... water has always had the cleansing role in Judaism.

Edited by MasterFlint

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Well one of you tells me that water is important (not surprising) and the other quotes the Bible; I guess they don't know where the Christian rite came from.

I think it probably came from similar rites of other mystery religions of the time. It certainly has no Jewish origin. The Biblical passages sure sound that way -- just more evidence that early Christianity was really a Greek attempt to syncretize Jewish Messianism with Greek neo-Platonist cults, and not a branchoff of Judaism after all.

WRONG! But I already answered your comments in my other post..

Christianity isn't merley a branch off of Judaism, in reality it's a SECT of Judaism, it even says so in ACTS. The early Christians were called the Sect of the Nazarene.... only later did they start being called Christians and adopt Christianity as the name of their Religion. The early Christians were Jews and still kept the old testament law.. It wasn't until Paul began teaching that the gentiles didn't have to keep the law that the sect became so much more distant from Judaism because the law was no longer kept...

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Baptism in water represented taking part in the deatg of Christ.

Baptism means 'submersion' like how a man is submerged into the earth after death. "From earth you were formed and to the earth you will return.

Baptism by Spirit represented taking part in the new life of Christ. The word for breath is often used interchangeably with Spirit. It was the breath that caused Adam to come to life. And so we see that water represents death and Spirit represents life.

So, to be born again is to die and be reborn through Christ. That is how we enter into the promises that God made to Abraham.

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Posted (edited)

Speaking of Abraham. The Jews all draw their inheritance of the promises given to him by means of circumcusion. Why through mutilation of life-giving flesh? Because God instituted it to Abraham to point to Jesus, the giver of life. Christ's flesh would be mutilated so that all who participated in his death and resurrection through faith (and sacrament if it could be helped) would receive the promises that God made to Abraham.

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree"— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith." (Galatians 3:13, 14 ESV)

Also interesting is the fact that all males were commanded to be circumcised on the eighth day from when they were born. Christ was resurrected on the first day of the week, later renamed to be called 'The Lord's Day.' It was, in its own respect, an eighth day of the week in which God perfected His creation and fulfilled all prophecy in Jesus.

So, I'm of the suspicion that circumcision on the 8th day points to Jesus' resurrection.

Edited by Bluefinger

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