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Detective1987

Disappearances Wilderness Areas Saskatchewan

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Posted (edited)

I am starting an Investigation into missing people, or disappearances that involve wilderness areas of Saskatchewan. If anyone has any personal stories or knows of cases and would like to share them you can post them here *Snip* Any information is appreciated.

Edited by Still Waters
Removed personal info.

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I would think that police and RCMP records would be helpful for you as well. By the way, what are you investigating? Yeah, disappearances, but for what purpose?

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Well, there is always the 411 series by Paulides, Google it.

He claims the authorities were not helpful with his research.

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Actually my thoughts on conducting this investigation started after listening to the David Paulides interview on Coast to Coast AM. I emailed Mr. Paulides to see if he had any information regarding such disappearances in Saskatchewan but he would not give me the information I was asking for, likely to get me to buy his book Missing 411, which I will be buying ASAP. I am interested on whether these strange disappearances are happening in my home Province and I want to investigate these disappearances for any links to what Paulides found in the States, as well as to see if the Canadian Government acts in the same strange manner the National Parks Service did in the States, and try to inquire into why.

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Actually my thoughts on conducting this investigation started after listening to the David Paulides interview on Coast to Coast AM. I emailed Mr. Paulides to see if he had any information regarding such disappearances in Saskatchewan but he would not give me the information I was asking for, likely to get me to buy his book Missing 411, which I will be buying ASAP. I am interested on whether these strange disappearances are happening in my home Province and I want to investigate these disappearances for any links to what Paulides found in the States, as well as to see if the Canadian Government acts in the same strange manner the National Parks Service did in the States, and try to inquire into why.

Have you searched news articles? Know anyone personally in law enforcement or park service?

Paulides had to get his database somehow. Talk to locals. Historical societies?

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As far as disappearances go, literally thousands disappear in the US yearly. Just disappear without a trace. I'll have to check on that show from AM Coast to coast.

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Posted (edited)

I will be looking into all other avenues of finding the information I am looking for, I posted this as just another source of information from people who may possibly have either their own experiences to share on this subject or know of strange disappearances that have happened to others. Here is the link to the David Paulides interview on Coast to Coast AM that I listened to I found it very compelling.

*snip*

Edited by Saru
Video removed due to copyright

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Ok, I listened to the entire show and I can see why it might well fascinate you, one, it's a mystery or rather a series of mysteries and humans love mysteries, and two, I sense you want to somehow help people gain some sort of closure. A noble undertaking really. However, before you take Mr. Paulides' word as the definitive Gospel, I highly recommend you do some serious checking on what happens to people who get lost. Also, the effects of both Hypothermia and dehydration, both often alter the brain's ability to make rational choices before debilitating a person. When I was under going training in the Marine Corps they told us about guys in Korea during the winter who got hypothermic and began stripping off clothes......literally because they felt uncomfortably warm, they were anything but warm but the condition had effected their brains and made them think they were plumb hot. Dehydration will make a person believe they need to save their water and sadly many a stranded pilot in north Africa during WWII died of dehydration with a canteen full of water on their hip. No really.

Then too, there is panic. Being purely scarred fecal-less. Panic, fear, whatever you'd like to call it has killed more people by making them make bad decisions than anything else. A great example of this is back in my day when I was in the Boy Scouts, I was the Senior Patrol Leader and several of the younger guys were working on getting merit badges. As it happened, I already had mine and so it fell to me to help these guys just as the older boys helped me. So, myself and three other guys got one of the guy's father to drive us out to this area where we'd hike and camp out and hike back out using one of the boys' map reading to chart a course for us. No real problem really. So we get dropped off by the Dad and we set off following this one fellows' navigation. We hiked long and hard all day. Finally I asked the boy how long before we could make camp. Suddenly, the guy who's doing all the navigation freaks all the way out, screams, "This is the wrong map! This is the wrong map!" like a mad man, the other two guy get all freaked out and one of them suddenly starts running like a madman. I told the guys to stay where they were and not to move. I dropped my back pack and took off after the guy running. I finally got close enough to tackle him and damn if he didn't start fighting me like I was the Devil himself who'd jumped on him and I had to punch him in the gut to get him to stop and listen. I finally got him all calmed down somewhat and we headed back to the others. i should point out that during his panicked run he'd dropped his gear, then his coat, then his shirt by the time I caught up to him. The others were all just sitting around in a circle crying, scared to death, they were in a state of mind that allowed them to carry out instruction but unable to initiate any sort of action on their own. Not an uncommon malady. As soon as I got back they all started looking at me and asking what they were going to do. I told them we were going to find a nice place to camp for the night and gather firewood and such so we could cook dinner. This is when everyone freaked out at me for not having a better plan. I got them all the shut up and told them all we had to do was follow the reverse of the course we'd come in on and we'd be back at our original starting point. Of course none of them believed it was really that simple. However once we made camp, got a fire going and made dinner the guys had a chance to calm back down and think again.

The reason I'm telling you this story is because people will often do stupid stuff when they get into a panic. While it wasn't terribly cold that night, the guy who took off shedding his gear and clothes as he was running would have been in dire straits once the Sun went down and the temperature started dropping. because he'd stripped all his stuff off. He'd have been lost without his clothes or his gear. The result of panic.

While I cannot explain all the situations, many of them sound all too familiar to me. Either getting lost, making a wrong turn can get a person just as lost as if you'd dropped them into an area by helicopter, I've seen children, especially young ones get lost within a couple hundred yards of where they were supposed to be. And yes while this can only explain some of the missing people, animal predation can explain many more. After listening to the entire show I think possibly the reason Mr. Paulides was so taken by the phenomenon was due to the stone walling he ran into while trying to do the research for the book. Let's be real, the National Park Service is in the job of getting people to come to the parks not in scaring them away, hence the lack of data from them. A missing adult, is a missing person's case and as much as people don't like it an adult can indeed go missing. It's a right you have a citizen, you can just disappear and not tell anyone and it's not a crime. So unless there is evidence that a crime has been committed then it's a missing person's case. Sounds overly simplified I know, but it's the truth. Talk to any cop about it and they'll tell you the same thing.

Now I haven't gone into a lot of detail, but most of these sightings I think can be explained, no not all of them, but most of them can be. No, it's not so exciting really and I can tell you literally a dozen or so searches I've assisted with over the years where we either found a missing child or adult either very close to where they were supposed to be or extremely far away from where they were supposed to be. I was involved in looking for a missing four year old who turned up in another camp some four miles from it's own campsite and made the trek in just under three hours.....not bad for a four year old, eh?

If you wish to get involved more then by all means do so, you might make a difference, just learn about what happens to people and make sure you're properly geared up yourself so you don't become a victim yourself. Get a GPS and always carry a compass with you as a back up, a large knife, a small knife, medical kit, food and plenty of water. I always get picked at for carrying too much gear myself, but I've never been without what I needed when I needed it either.

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Thank you for your insight I was a member of the Boy Scouts as well for around 18 years and have gone on a number of Scout hikes in the Cypress Hills region of the south west corner of Saskatchewan which were done without adult leaders, and I have seen the effects of panic on the younger hikers. We had one who had jumped on a log and had a stick go through his foot. Me and two others had to hike back to base camp which was a good 5 hour hike, and it was already in the afternoon. During our hike a horrendous storm began and one of the guys panicked and did much the same thing, started running and tearing his jacket and tee shirt off, in the rain. We caught him and were able to calm him down enough to keep going. The main reason for his panic was that there had been cougar sightings in the area and with the storm and the failing light it just got to the other guy enough to send him into a frenzy. I am not the kind of person to jump to wild conclusions about what may be happening to these people and of the mindset that I hope there is a natural answer to these events. However you are correct that the desire to help in these cases and possibly bring a measure of closure to some of the families affected by such disappearances is a driving force for me. The reason Paulides interview stuck with me is the relative lack of assistance from the National Park Service, and even less from the RCMP. Thank you again for your assistance everything you have said I will be thinking about and keeping in the back of my head as I conduct this Investigation.

I will also be digging up and dusting off my old hiking gear if I decide a search in the wilderness will be beneficial. If you come across any more information or have any more ideas for me I appreciate the input.

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My husband, as a fireman, helped search for a missing 3 or 4-year-old who seemed to just vanish from her fenced backyard while her mom was in the house. She ended up being found 2-3 days later in a house 2 doors from where she went missing. They may never have found her but it seems one of her captures got a guilty conscience and let her outside to be found. And no, her experience was not a happy one. She had been kept in an old stove in the attic, as I remember.

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Her captor was even in on the search.

I wonder when someone goes missing near a river or lake or more remote area (even with a few houses), if sometimes searches concentrate on the "hazardous" environment. Maybe after a perfunctory knock on a door "Have you seen?"

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Posted (edited)

Qc, that's a sicko kidnapping. Strangely, many kidnappers and murderers seem to get off "helping" in an investigation. It's not unusual for police to set up a microphone to record what people are saying into a coffin at a viewing and sometimes at the grave site. Some sick mofo's out there.

Detective: I appreciate that you want to help out and I can understand the need to help. I've wound up several times scraping my own plans for a hiking weekend in order to assist with an impromptu search. Sometimes it's been a good thing and sometimes not so good. I can tell you, it's an emotional roller coaster, so just understand that going in. It's not always going to wind up giving you a warm fuzzy, sometimes closure for someone else carries a certain emotional baggage. Just be aware, it's not all fluff and rainbows.

Sadly, the Parks Service is often trapped in an in between state. A missing person's report is not a crime, as I stated before, as an adult you can be missing, it's your right to go where you want, when you want without regard for other people. A minor child is a different kettle of fish, response will be quicker. However, keeping track of the missing and "unfound" is not as simple as Paulides makes it sound. There are complication between state, local, and in the case of the Parks Service, Federal entities, then is it a crime or just someone who decided while on a hike to just walk away and start over? Is there some criminal investigation that's on going? I would give you some serious advice, if an investigation is ongoing then tread lightly, you can wind up getting charged with interfering in an investigation and trying to put pressure on police or any law enforcement agency is not going to be received well.

I'm actually not trying to sound like I'm trying to talk you out of it, really I'm not, if you feel compelled to help or at least try to help then I'm all for it. I have what I call, "White Knight Syndrone" as well and it's just in my nature to get involved to help. Looks like you might suffer from the same affliction.

Edited by keninsc

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"White Knight Syndrome" that's new I think I like that better than how I usually classify myself as having a "hero complex" I am going to continue with this Investigation, but I am going to continue in the manner I have been so far which is to keep from stepping on anyone's toes so to speak. I am attempting to become an AUX Constable with the RCMP, but because of DUI that I received nearly 10 years ago when I was a thoughtless kid, I am having difficulty. So now I suppose it is frustration and impatience that are causing me to act directly rather than continue to sit on the side lines wishing that I could have done something. Just to be clear though I have no intentions of becoming some kind of vigilante, that is why this is an Investigation to find facts and possible answers for myself and those affected. I understand that this is not a game, and that there will not be any winners and I don't want to be a hero I just want to take some kind of active involvement in trying to help those affected. I hope I can handle any baggage that may come with this.

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I had a friend years ago who was a cop, Detective actually, he spent some twenty plus years working homicide which was a long stent in that role. The usual burn out rate was about three to five years, most guys can handle it but not over the long haul which leads to burn out and transfer to something else. While this is not the same level of intensity as that, there will be some baggage that goes with it. Just keep an eye on yourself, which is hard to do since we're the one effected and it's hard to see that effect within yourself. Next thing you know, you're alienating your family, the wife's ready to leave you and your real job is suffering because of it and you can't see it because it's altered your perspective.

I'd suggest getting into shape, conditioning is the key when you're hiking up and down mountains or rough terrain. I know I sound like a broken record, but gear up properly and when you work on your conditioning, include the weight of your gear. If you've got your gear down to forty or fifty pounds then workout with that weight on you so you'll be use to it. That what I learned in the Marine Corps was to be use to carrying your gear because it makes a huge difference. If you can join any classes that any local rescue groups might offer, join them. What you can learn from a seasoned, experienced person is a huge asset. Things like extra food and water, a way to purify water, food.......MRE's I highly recommend. Light weight, long shelf life and not too bad, at least they're a lot better than the old "C" and "K" rations we used to have in the field. Invest in some technology, get a GPS with area maps available, carry extra batteries, a radio, a cell phone, then have a compass, just in case.

Now as morbid as this sounds, learn to recognize what human bones look like in the wild, sounds silly but you'd be surprised how similar an ulna.....wrist bone can look next to a stick or twig. It's something that a practiced eye can pick up on, but a rookie will just step over and miss. I know I'm sounding all fatherly here and I'm sorry for that, but you don't want to become a statistic either. Always be sure to leave word with someone where you are going, how long you think you'll be, no matter how usual or mundane where you're going may seem, those are the ones that can screw you over. Sip and get hurt unexpectedly and you're just as boned as the person you went there to try and locate.

Take the right precautions and you'll be ok. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and some good reasoning skills so this should appeal to you.

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Good luck with your endeavour.

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Very interesting. I've always been intrigued by these kinds of searches - for people as well as things like the Lost Dutchman Mine. There's just something very appealing about looking for things that have been lost.

If you haven't seen it, I'd suggest trying to find a Discovery or History Channel show called something like Alaska's Bermuda Triangle. It details some of the high profile disappearances that have taken place in a certain area of Alaska over the decades. The most famous of which is a 1972 disappearance of plane carrying two US Congressmen.

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If any of you out there have watched the David Paulides interview on Coast to Coast AM and have any experience with search and rescue dogs, maybe you can give me some insight into why during a number of these missing person cases that Paulides looked at, the search and rescue dogs acted in an unusual manner. Here is a link to the interview for those of you that have not seen it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggM6hKtbw5o

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I would think that police and RCMP records would be helpful for you as well. By the way, what are you investigating? Yeah, disappearances, but for what purpose?

My suggestion, as well, QuiteContray.

I love mysteries and all of his stories (or most) of missing people are very very startling, and of course that is all wrapped up by the bigger mystery,

why do some specific areas get far many more abductions than most?

They don't have it at my library - not sure I want to dole out the big bucks for it.

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If any of you out there have watched the David Paulides interview on Coast to Coast AM and have any experience with search and rescue dogs, maybe you can give me some insight into why during a number of these missing person cases that Paulides looked at, the search and rescue dogs acted in an unusual manner.

A dog's nose not only dominates her face, but her brain, as well. In fact, a dog relies on her sense of smell to interpret her world, in much the same way as people depend on their sight. Although this contrasting world view may be hard to imagine, know that your dog interprets as much information as you do. However, she does much of this by smelling an object or animal, not by staring at it. Link

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I'm no expert on tracking with dogs, although I have seen some dogs drop a scent for whatever reason I don't know. Mind you these were hunting dogs on the trail of a bear that was hanging around a school playground. I was helping Wildlife Resource Officer find it and dart it for relocation. The bear hadn't done anything except be seen while school was in session and the local officials decided to have the bear relocated. Anyway, I popped over one morning and they put the dog on the trail, we followed the dog for a good couple miles, then all of a sudden the dog just lost the trail. The handler moved him around in a series of larger and larger circles but the dog never reacted to it. So several of us sort of fanned out to see what we could find and as luck would have it one of the guys came across some tracks, brought the dog back over and he simply refused. Personally, I think the dog was just tired and didn't want to go after the bear, but who knows. The dog refused to give us a reason. He just sniffed and peed.

The next weekend they got the bear by waiting for it to show back up at the school grounds.

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I love mysteries and all of his stories (or most) of missing people are very very startling, and of course that is all wrapped up by the bigger mystery,

why do some specific areas get far many more abductions than most?

That's an age old question. More traffic, weather, terrain, age of the people missing, predators in the area are all factors to be considered. It's been sort of a casual observation of mine that the less risky the area the less likely people are to prepare themselves properly. Next thing they know, they in trouble and have nothing to help them get out of it. It's sort of like hurting your back, you almost never get hurt lifting something heavy because you automatically realize it's heavy and get yourself in the right position. Where as with something light you just don't take it seriously, next thing you know.......OUCH! You just hurt yourself lifting some little nothing and getting picked at by your co-workers.

"You got lost, where? Are you kidding me?" How many times have I heard that one?

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Sorry I have not posted on my own topic in awhile. Just an update on my Investigation which regrettably has been going at a snails pace as a result of getting busier at work and so not being able to devote the time I would like to this investigation. It is still ongoing however and I have decided that the best way to start this is to start with Missing 411 as a way to bring better focus to this investigation. I by no means believe that there are people following or keeping tabs on this obscure post on a large forum, but for those who are interested, I felt I should say that the work into this is continuing.

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