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zoser

Undeniable Evidence of Ancient Aliens

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Also there are mainstreamers who suggest that the ancients used a mixture of organic acids to literally liquefy the stones,that is why the edges fit so great.The theory suggests that the Ancients used to utilise the inherent mineral composition of these stones to make solvents that would melt the rocks wherever it was applied.

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Posted (edited)

It's a public forum where people are free to debate ideas relating to unexplained ancient mysteries.

It's not a site where people submit papers for approval to a professional committee.

Are you on the correct forum?

so asking you to provide independently verified evidence is not the norm? in other words you can spew speculations as facts and make uneducated claims against mainstream orthodoxy as you wish? and if anybody questions your fallacies is on the wrong forum? are you here to debate using logic and the scientific method or you just looking for confirmation of your beliefs? not that it matters, but fortunately you can spam away to your heart's delight... you're in the right place, but it doesn't work like that everywhere... http://cosmoquest.or...-posting-in-ATM meh

Edited by mcrom901
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When you look at the vast engineering acheivements humans have built over time a couple of key things stand out. We can assess our present and future engineering planning to understand better our ancient past.

Most modern high level precision or gand scale engineering is committed to fundamental aspects of life such as protection, transport, religous/cultural motive, civic value, military, resources etc. Some examples would be the Hoover dam, railroads, NASA space exploration, nuclear facilities. Vatican or architectural structures designed to withstand earthquakes. These engineering structures are built for neccessity, require sizable teams of people, incredibly rigoress planning, testing and implementation.

What you rarely see with ancient structures like the pyramids or walls in peru is the planning process. Its a little niave to judge them as they are now imagining 'primitive' like people carving stone. But looking at how we plan things in modern times, in a very systematic way, we can easily imagine that an awful lot of human thought went into these structures. The key element we have had going for us for a very long time is language and planning.

The curve of human evolution is fairly simple and logical. We started out using extremely large stone blocks because they worked and because at the time stone was the primary construction method. Smaller blocks were used over time because more efficient ways of construction were utilized and because engineering neccessitated different approaches.

Ancient Egypt was a hotspot of trade and religous activity close to some of the largest. most powerful and wealthiest populations of its time. Today we see the same thing in New York, Shanghai and Dubai. Capital drives construction acheivement. After considerable earthquakes, or wars, demolishing older structures its not hard to understand how eventually a population of people will communicate together and solve the problems of building structures to be more resilient. The effort required to produce such exceptional blocks, joints and precision has a fundamental reason behind it born out of a rigoress and ingenius planning process (one that also doesnt involve hindering development beaurocracy and laws such as today!).

All of the ancient construction wonders have impressive articulation because they have impressive functional value. The same is true today.

Your reasoning is a little incorrect. I would say that if the Ancients were very primitive and had lesser means the method of least resistance would have been to use smaller stones to build their structures and as they progressed more they would have utilised larger chunks.

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so asking you to provide independently verified evidence is not the norm? in other words you can spew speculations as facts and make uneducated claims against mainstream orthodoxy as you wish? and if anybody questions your fallacies is on the wrong forum? are you here to debate using logic and the scientific method or you just looking for confirmation of your beliefs? not that it matters, but fortunately you can spam away to your heart's delight... you're in the right place, but it doesn't work like that everywhere... http://cosmoquest.or...-posting-in-ATM meh

If all the fringe theories were peer reviewed then we wouldn't be debating them. In most cases the people who propound these theories are not against submitting their observations or theories for peer review,but it is the mainstream monopoly club that doesn't even admit these studies for further peer review.
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If all the fringe theories were peer reviewed then we wouldn't be debating them. In most cases the people who propound these theories are not against submitting their observations or theories for peer review,but it is the mainstream monopoly club that doesn't even admit these studies for further peer review.

have you seen any independently published paper which seemed sound?

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31 pages and continuing

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=244935

.

a

and just to clarify for anyone who hasn't dipped their toes in to the ABOVE THREAD LINK, which is a thread about the AA theory being UNTRUE, ie, NO aliens ever did anything. There is a difference and certainly no rock/wall pics :tu:

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Posted (edited)

Also there are mainstreamers who suggest that the ancients used a mixture of organic acids to literally liquefy the stones,that is why the edges fit so great.The theory suggests that the Ancients used to utilise the inherent mineral composition of these stones to make solvents that would melt the rocks wherever it was applied.

I have posted a ton of material about only that in the first thread I linked to in my former post.

But at least two persons have watched it themselves or heard about it: Hiram Bingham and Percy Fawcett.

I think I filled a dozen pages trying to find that foot-high plant with fleshy red leaves, growing along the Perené River in Peru, a plant that dissolved the spurs on the boots of someone walking through a field of these plants. A plant used by a native bird to dissolve rock to create its nest.

+++

EDIT:

I should add that the bird is a native of our planet....

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Posted (edited)

I have posted a ton of material about only that in the first thread I linked to in my former post.

But at least two persons have watched it themselves or heard about it: Hiram Bingham and Percy Fawcett.

I think I filled a dozen pages trying to find that foot-high plant with fleshy red leaves, growing along the Perené River in Peru, a plant that dissolved the spurs on the boots of someone walking through a field of these plants. A plant used by a native bird to dissolve rock to create its nest.

+++

EDIT:

I should add that the bird is a native of our planet....

.

Day of the Triffids movie... opening voice over said...

Narrator: "In nature's scheme of things, there are certain plants which are carnivorous, or eating plants. The Venus Fly Trap is one of the best known of these plants. A fly drawn to the plant by its sweet syrup, brushes against triggered bristles. Just how these plants digest their pray has yet to be explained. There is much still to learn about these fascinating eating plants. This is a newcomer: Triffidus Celestus, brought to earth on the meteorite during the Day of the Triffids".

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055894/

hehehe

.

Edited by seeder
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Agreed. As I suggested in post 7:

http://www.unexplain...6

It's the weight of evidence across the entire thread that will be the telling thing.

Some things to consider in your argument of primitive man wielding high technology:

How did it arise and where did it go?

How did it cross continents?

Try that for now.

How did technology arise in the ancient world is a question that can be answered according to our current observations regarding the same. By having advanced civilization and societies that encouraged new technologies.

Where did it go? is a more interesting question. There may have been a catastrophic world war that spiralled into a time when a lot of information was temporarily lost and found again now.The dark ages if you prefer.

How did it cross continents? is the simplest question of the three,pretty much the same way that it would today by ship or air plane.

You may find my answers ridiculous only if you believe:

1.Ancients were primitive and couldn't have done what we have done,we are much better off.

2.What we have achieved currently including our Wars couldn't have been achieved by the Ancients.

3.Ancients had not travelled around the globe, how could they it was Colombus/Amerigo Vespucci who discovered America,it was the conquistedors who first discovered South America lol.

As you can see i never resorted to Aliens or Extra-terrestrials even once in answering the questions.The issue arises only because of the arrogance of modern man who thinks that none before have achieved what we have.Also it will depend partially on how old you believe Homo Sapiens to be? If homo sapiens unlike what most evolutionists would tell you existed way back in the past say millions of years,then it would not be unreasonable to allow the ancients to have knowledge of advance technology.

Also in the Vedic tradition human civilization has undergone many previous cycles or Yugas. At the start of which righteousness and nobility of character and knowledge prevails which ultimately transitions to a phase where knowledge is lost and so is righteousness followed by complete destruction and then birth of a new humanity. This cycle continues.

Also the ancients have not even listed down the procedures they used, maybe be because it was common knowledge and not because Aliens built them. So much knowledge they had is lost because entire civilizations and their memory has been lost to us, these people could have known much that we do not yet know.

The more mysterious question to me is....how did these civilizations end,why did the people abandon these monuments?

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The more mysterious question to me is....how did these civilizations end,why did the people abandon these monuments?

The Spanish arrived. It was only 500-ad. Just 1500 years ago so man wasn't primitive. In fact the Spanish even said they were still building it when they arrived. But thats all from me

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Posted (edited)

Your reasoning is a little incorrect. I would say that if the Ancients were very primitive and had lesser means the method of least resistance would have been to use smaller stones to build their structures and as they progressed more they would have utilised larger chunks.

Primitive in technology compared with today but not in language, hard team work, planning and organisation. We dont use massive stone blocks any more, we use tiny bricks, concrete and steel infrastructure etc. We have not progressed to building with million ton blocks. The method of least resistence when it comes to protection (earthquakes for example) of large structures at that time was massive stone blocks organised in particular pattern. Most of the pyramid blocks are not relatively massive. Their acheivement is of human organisation not precision engineering. Of course ancient people progressed from different materials and they still used smaller blocks where the functional value of large blocks wasn't needed. But eventually we moved on from using gigantic stone blocks as the social construct and construction methods changed. Everything in our past fits a logical pattern of planning and technological evolution. It does not fit a pattern that involves advanced technology from aliens. If aliens visited us really they would teach us how to do stone masonry and not give us medicine or an ipad thing?? :yes:

Edited by Dragonwind

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have you seen any independently published paper which seemed sound?

Yes many. And if they are so unsound the mainstream should subject these papers to peer review and negate the information.

What is peer review in context of Historians? a bunch of published mainstreamers subjecting the paper to criticism and trying to verify whether the assertions in the paper are as per the scheme of things according to them or is the paper going against what they believe or what they have consented as right.

In most of these claims there is often no empirical evidence involved which can be verified independently and the mainstream opinion is also often unsupported by empirical evidence and is based on Consensus.

Peer review is not some magic wand which will catch the lairs by their ears and reward the truthful. As any due diligence mechanism it has it's pros and it's cons.

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Day of the Triffids movie... opening voice over said...

Narrator: "In nature's scheme of things, there are certain plants which are carnivorous, or eating plants. The Venus Fly Trap is one of the best known of these plants. A fly drawn to the plant by its sweet syrup, brushes against triggered bristles. Just how these plants digest their pray has yet to be explained. There is much still to learn about these fascinating eating plants. This is a newcomer: Triffidus Celestus, brought to earth on the meteorite during the Day of the Triffids".

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055894/

hehehe

.

Damn, that's it: it's an alien plant, LOL!

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Primitive in technology compared with today but not in language, hard team work, planning and organisation. We dont use massive stone blocks any more, we use tiny bricks, concrete and steel infrastructure etc. We have not progressed to building with million ton blocks. The method of least resistence when it comes to protection (earthquakes for example) of large structures at that time was massive stone blocks organised in particular pattern. Most of the pyramid blocks are not relatively massive. Their acheivement is of human organisation not precision engineering. Of course ancient people progressed from different materials and they still used smaller blocks where the functional value of large blocks wasn't needed. But eventually we moved on from using gigantic stone blocks as the social construct and construction methods changed. Everything in our past fits a logical pattern of planning and technological evolution. It does not fit a pattern that involves advanced technology from aliens. If aliens visited us really they would teach us how to do stone masonry and not give us medicine or an ipad thing?? :yes:

We also use huge slabs of concrete or rock for various things, as our technology progresses we may not see the point of using smaller stones,bricks and instead may prefer to use single solid structures for majority of our work.If i was stuck with a donkey and 10 people to build a temple,i would rather use smaller stones rather then huge slabs of stone as it is easier to work with smaller pieces.

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Posted (edited)

Damn, that's it: it's an alien plant, LOL!

Pesky aliens, they put their pot plant out for a bit o sunshine...and the damned things went and softened all those rocks :yes:

.

Edited by seeder

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Posted (edited)

And if they are so unsound the mainstream should subject these papers to peer review and negate the information.

you do know what the 'burden of proof' means, right? and as i asked zoser earlier, an 'appeal to ignorance'?

Edited by mcrom901

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Posted (edited)

Pesky aliens, they put their pot plant out for a bit o sunshine...and the damned things went and softened all those rocks :yes:

Maybe you remember that someone in that 677 pages long thread (JGirl??) said, "Hey, I grow these plants in my garden!!" (I think it was Caladium, not sure; I have posted lots of possible candidates)

So I asked her to try it out on granite, and we never heard of her again....

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Maybe you remember that someone in that 677 pages long thread (JGirl??) said, "Hey, I grow these plants in my garden!!" (I think it was Caladium, not sure; I have posted lots of possible candidates)

So I asked her to try it out on granite, and we never heard of her again....

.

Actually yes I remember it well. maybe she melted her fingers off trying, and cant type anymore? :w00t:

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Actually yes I remember it well. maybe she melted her fingers off trying, and cant type anymore? :w00t:

Yes, it was JGirl:

i grow these in my garden. they're beautiful! i can't imagine eating it by mistake though lol

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=237842&st=4095#entry4607895

I think she used gloves that melted away::

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showuser=106810

But I noticed she posted in this thread, so I guess she's ok.

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The curve of human evolution is fairly simple and logical. We started out using extremely large stone blocks because they worked and because at the time stone was the primary construction method. Smaller blocks were used over time because more efficient ways of construction were utilized and because engineering neccessitated different approaches in response to changing social, technological and cultural constructs. Had people gone from straw huts to LCD displays overnight it would be more suspicous but mastering stone masonry 4000 years ago, to the level they did in context to expanding populations and technology, is an expected result. Everyone was using stone...eventually people were garaunteed to become extremely proficient at using stone.

OK I've heard this kind of argument before. What I would say about it is this:

First was the planning. logistics and calculations actually done? Have we seen any? What maths did they have at that time to construct something such as the Great Pyramid with? How would it have been written?

According to archaeological evidence the Aymara Indians did not have writing yet they were supposed to have made the precision relics at Puma Punku?

So something doesn't quite make sense here.

Secondly, can we find a precedent for this precision work in classical or renaissance time?

Before you go off and search, people tried this on the other thread and simply posted temples with pillars.

What I'm looking for is precision and construction work to compare directly with the work indicated in post number 2 not what people think is comparable because they have a personal admiration for the artisitic achievements of say ancient Rome.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=245366entry4715235

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Have Fun! (I will check by in a couple of weeks just to read the frustrated enraged responses)..hehe

There is no need for there to be any enraged responses unless someone deliberately tries to de-rail the thread as happened previously.

In which case I will not hesitate to report offenders.

The premise of the thread is very clear.

I personally have no wish for this thread to de-generate into the kind of poor standards that were demonstrated on the other thread. I don't wish to dredge that up here.

All I would ask is that people stay on topic and avoid conflict.

Here is the premise of the thread:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=245366entry4715229

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What do you think of the video " Ancient Aliens debunked"?

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OK I've heard this kind of argument before. What I would say about it is this:

First was the planning. logistics and calculations actually done? Have we seen any? What maths did they have at that time to construct something such as the Great Pyramid with? How would it have been written?

According to archaeological evidence the Aymara Indians did not have writing yet they were supposed to have made the precision relics at Puma Punku?

There's a bunch of travelers near me, (or 'gypsies' for the international readers) , the kingpin, Charlie, is a highly skilled mechanic. You see him working on lorries, cars, bikes....anything mechanical with an engine, everyone takes their troubled engines to him, EVERYONE! the mans a genius with mechanics. When I was first told of him, it was like this:

"Yeh Old Charlie is as thick as sh!t, cant read or write a word... but he can fix anything mechanical". And so he can too! And yet to talk with him the guy appears a bit dense.

And there are millions more in the world like him. Maths and reading/writing mean little...

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Posted (edited)

Also there are mainstreamers who suggest that the ancients used a mixture of organic acids to literally liquefy the stones,that is why the edges fit so great.The theory suggests that the Ancients used to utilise the inherent mineral composition of these stones to make solvents that would melt the rocks wherever it was applied.

That was discussed on the other thread. That doesn't mean that it cannot be revisited however.

Here was my argument against this idea:

This is actually getting ahead of ourselves but I don't mind if we look at it now since it is all related:

1) There was no candidate found. Was it a flower? Which one?

2) How would they have manufactured the chemical in such vast quantities?

3) Can any chemical really soften multi-tonne blocks? Again please refer to post 2 for evidence.

If yes, then why have we not rediscovered it? Think about it's potential value today.

There are lots and lots of pictures that I could post on this. I was planning to post them later. If wish to see them please ask.

Edited by zoser

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a

and just to clarify for anyone who hasn't dipped their toes in to the ABOVE THREAD LINK, which is a thread about the AA theory being UNTRUE, ie, NO aliens ever did anything. There is a difference and certainly no rock/wall pics :tu:

That's just an unqualified statement . By all means pursue the philosophy side of this discussion on the other thread.

I personally do not believe that will yield any insight into the question being considered here.

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