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Still Waters

First Love Child of Human, Neanderthal Found?

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Posted (edited)

Guys where even desperate 40,000 years ago lol.

I wouldn't say desperate, more like:

Human Male: you human?

Neanderthals Female: No

Human Male: Close enough you got Boobs, an ass, and a Vagina. Lets see where this goes.

God: 8 Months Later, Bang Human Neanderthal Hybrid appears

Edited by stevemagegod

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Sounds like was more of a case of Neanderthal women being raped than getting together and producing a love child.

I don't know about that. Neanderthals were much bigger and much stronger, and they also had larger brains. It's doubtful that a male jockey could threaten a female powerlifter. I suppose that they could have a relationship, though.

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So your racist remark is referring to Neanderthal females being stereotyped as "ugly"?

This can't be tolerated! Contact the Neanderthal Anti-Defamation League.

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Posted (edited)

I don't know about that. Neanderthals were much bigger and much stronger, and they also had larger brains. It's doubtful that a male jockey could threaten a female powerlifter. I suppose that they could have a relationship, though.

So you reckon a day in the life of a hybrid family went something like this?

Dad, where's mom gone?

Son, she's out there fetching us a wooly mammoth for dinner while I'm dusting the cave.

Edited by Black Red Devil
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I really hope you're kidding. And I'm sure they were ugly.

How would you feel if an African (who has no Neanderthal genes) came up to a Caucasian/Asian and said "Your mom is ugly, only a drunk man would bed her"? That is exactly what that post was trying to say. Since Caucasians and Asians have Neanderthal genes, Neanderthals are one of our parents, and insulting them is like insulting our own mothers!

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humans ran the Neanderthals to extinciton through interbreeding

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Posted (edited)

The world is so awkwardly politically correct now that even extinct neanderthals have silly rights. :wacko:

Edited by DKO
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Posted (edited)

humans ran the Neanderthals to extinciton through interbreeding

You mean they chose humans over their own kind? Maybe humans, who were less privilged physically, thought of a way to control the Neands.. and ended up colonizing their territories and using up their resources after showing off their better handling of these resources... so the Neands developed an inferiority complex towards humans and thought of humans as better creatures and that's why they preferred mating with humans than their own kind hence their instinction.

Edited by goodconversations
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I don't know about that. Neanderthals were much bigger and much stronger, and they also had larger brains. It's doubtful that a male jockey could threaten a female powerlifter. I suppose that they could have a relationship, though.

Absolutely. Looks aren't everything, after all. Especially back in those days of self-reliance.

Chances are, if a human male had a relationship with a Neanderthal female, she was probably a good cook.

Harte

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Absolutely. Looks aren't everything, after all. Especially back in those days of self-reliance.

Chances are, if a human male had a relationship with a Neanderthal female, she was probably a good cook.

Harte

Maybe the traditional gender roles were reversed. Neanderthal women clubbed handsome "human" men and dragged them back to their caves.

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So you reckon a day in the life of a hybrid family went something like this?

Dad, where's mom gone?

Son, she's out there fetching us a wooly mammoth for dinner while I'm dusting the cave.

Guess who had to cook the wooly mammoth. Genetic memories created male chauvinists.

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How would you feel if an African (who has no Neanderthal genes) came up to a Caucasian/Asian and said "Your mom is ugly, only a drunk man would bed her"? That is exactly what that post was trying to say. Since Caucasians and Asians have Neanderthal genes, Neanderthals are one of our parents, and insulting them is like insulting our own mothers!

LOL? I take it that you left out the sarcasm disclaimer.

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I don't know about that. Neanderthals were much bigger and much stronger, and they also had larger brains. It's doubtful that a male jockey could threaten a female powerlifter. I suppose that they could have a relationship, though.

They also may have had technologies more advanced than modern humans back then - one of the problems knowing what was going on then is that anything made of wood and sinew would have long ago disintegrated.

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humans ran the Neanderthals to extinciton through interbreeding

That is basically what I believe also. That the neanderthals being spread out and small in population eventually had to throw in with the Homo Sapiens near them to have any chance at all of competing.

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Humans - 1

Neanderthals - 0

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Interestingly this example has Neanderthal mDNA, which according to Wiki, indicates this person was probably sterile, because no modern humans have neanderthal mDNA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal

While modern humans share some nuclear DNA with the extinct Neanderthals, the two species do not share any mitochondrial DNA, which in primates is always maternally transmitted. This observation has prompted the hypothesis that whereas female humans interbreeding with male Neanderthals were able to generate fertile offspring, the progeny of female Neanderthals who mated with male humans were either rare, absent or sterile. However, some researchers have argued that there is evidence of possible interbreeding between female Neanderthals and male modern humans.

I guess it is more then an arguement now. :yes:

From what I just read the most likely place that hybridization took place is in the Middle East, and early on, as even the earliest settlers to head into Asia (even the Polynesians and native Australians) have the same general percentage of neanderthal as humans who lived in Europe with them for tens of thousands of years. If the hybridization happened mainly in Europe, you'd expect the average percentage to be higher there and lower elsewhere, which is not reported, AFAIK.

Very cool.... :tu:

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They also may have had technologies more advanced than modern humans back then - one of the problems knowing what was going on then is that anything made of wood and sinew would have long ago disintegrated.

That is quite possible. Neanderthal brains are larger than "human" brains. The caricatures and stereotypes don't do them justice. They probably would be Renaissance men if they were with us now.

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Interestingly this example has Neanderthal mDNA, which according to Wiki, indicates this person was probably sterile, because no modern humans have neanderthal mDNA.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Neanderthal

I guess it is more then an arguement now. :yes:

From what I just read the most likely place that hybridization took place is in the Middle East, and early on, as even the earliest settlers to head into Asia (even the Polynesians and native Australians) have the same general percentage of neanderthal as humans who lived in Europe with them for tens of thousands of years. If the hybridization happened mainly in Europe, you'd expect the average percentage to be higher there and lower elsewhere, which is not reported, AFAIK.

Very cool.... :tu:

There's no chance in hell Neanderthal-AMH mixes were sterile. That's just retarded speculation.

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There's no chance in hell Neanderthal-AMH mixes were sterile. That's just retarded speculation.

Well, how would you explain 0, zero, maternal ancestors??

With no mDNA coming down to from Neanderthals, there has to be an explaination...

What do you base your opinon on? Gut-feeling?

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Well, how would you explain 0, zero, maternal ancestors??

With no mDNA coming down to from Neanderthals, there has to be an explaination...

What do you base your opinon on? Gut-feeling?

First of all, we don't know if there are no maternal ancestors. We haven't typed every single person yet, and we've only typed a fraction of Neanderthal remains.

But we needn't expect Neanderthal mtDNA to persist given the obvious possibility of genetic drift removing it from the gene pool.

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Posted (edited)

First of all, we don't know if there are no maternal ancestors. We haven't typed every single person yet, and we've only typed a fraction of Neanderthal remains.

But we needn't expect Neanderthal mtDNA to persist given the obvious possibility of genetic drift removing it from the gene pool.

A large enough sample of humans have been sampled worldwide for various medical reasons that statistically one should have shown up by now.

In the US alone, probably 5+ million military and former military personnel have their DNA on file, and probably about the same number of convicted criminals have done the same. Worldwide there has to be well over 100 million peoples DNA on file, and not a single one has neanderthal mDNA, or it would have made worldwide news.

I think the likelyhood of every single female line of neanderthal mDNA disappearing once it had been established as very small. I'm not even sure Genetic Drift would even come into the equation here. The female line would still pass down a unmistakably different mDNA line.

The only way to end a mDNA line is for every female of that line to die without having children.

Edited by DieChecker

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A large enough sample of humans have been sampled worldwide for various medical reasons that statistically one should have shown up by now.

In the US alone, probably 5+ million military and former military personnel have their DNA on file, and probably about the same number of convicted criminals have done the same. Worldwide there has to be well over 100 million peoples DNA on file, and not a single one has neanderthal mDNA, or it would have made worldwide news.

I think the likelyhood of every single female line of neanderthal mDNA disappearing once it had been established as very small. I'm not even sure Genetic Drift would even come into the equation here.

Statistics is fun, but imperfect. If there's only one person left with Neanderthal mtDNA then we won't find it until we've typed that person.

But genetic drift is definitely in play. Neanderthal interbreeding was obviously relatively rare since the overall genetic input is low, so that means Neanderthal mtDNA would have never been particularly common, even in the Upper Paleolithic. So any time a woman with Neanderthal mtDNA doesn't have a daughter, that's a dead line. And since there weren't many initial lines, it's easy for the Neanderthal mtDNA component to disappear from the AMH population.

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Posted (edited)

Statistics is fun, but imperfect. If there's only one person left with Neanderthal mtDNA then we won't find it until we've typed that person.

But genetic drift is definitely in play. Neanderthal interbreeding was obviously relatively rare since the overall genetic input is low, so that means Neanderthal mtDNA would have never been particularly common, even in the Upper Paleolithic. So any time a woman with Neanderthal mtDNA doesn't have a daughter, that's a dead line. And since there weren't many initial lines, it's easy for the Neanderthal mtDNA component to disappear from the AMH population.

I thought that genetic drift is a either-or kind of thing. If you have two variations, one might eventually take over completely. But, the mDNA always comes from the female, so once a line with neanderthal mDNA was established, every single decendant is going to have that mDNA to some degree. Random mutation will likely cause differences over time, but not enough to make a neanderthal mDNA look like a HS mDNA. Anyone who was decended from a female neanderthal would immediately be noticed by anyone looking at their mDNA.

Though I have to agree, till every person on Earth is genetically tested, there will be a chance there is someone with mDNA from neanderthal... I just think with the worldwide sample sizes we have, such is unlikely. It is kind of like bigfoot, in that until every tree is chopped down and all tall grass mowed, it is not known if he is hiding out there somewhere... but statistics says he is, by a large percentage, not there.

Edited by DieChecker
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I thought that genetic drift is a either-or kind of thing. If you have two variations, one might eventually take over completely. But, the mDNA always comes from the female, so once a line with neanderthal mDNA was established, every single decendant is going to have that mDNA to some degree.

No. mtDNA is only passed through a maternal lineage. So a female can still have offspring (males) and loose the lineage. Because even if the male offspring father children the mtDNA from them will not be passed on. So very likely there were female with N-mtDNA in your lineage, they just had son's at some point and that DNA can be lost.

Though I have to agree, till every person on Earth is genetically tested, there will be a chance there is someone with mDNA from neanderthal... I just think with the worldwide sample sizes we have, such is unlikely. It is kind of like bigfoot, in that until every tree is chopped down and all tall grass mowed, it is not known if he is hiding out there somewhere... but statistics says he is, by a large percentage, not there.

With various groups sharing only upto 4% of DNA with Neanderthals, the likelihood that mtDNA survived is very low (explained above with the sons).

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