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markprice

demonic hypothetical

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Here it is: 95% of the entire human population knows that demons exist; science made public a frequency that could reliably detect demonic presence and sometimes even outline their forms. The question of their existence was answered to the satisfaction of all except for the five percent who insist the sun revolves around the earth.

The question becomes: how do we handle it? Do religions, mystery schools and science unite to protect the future or do they still insist on sects and mass murder; maybe oil companies decide to use demons to accurately locate oil and maybe some people want them as pets or whatever. Does everything continue on basically the same, or do people finally recognize the stark reality of evil, and its representatives, then decide to fight for the good of the future?

Can people even make a collective choice as if their lives depended on it?

That's a pretty open question that could use some insight from various perspectives (fiction or non-fiction).

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Posted (edited)

I've never heard of this frequency you refer too. Never mind, I forgot this is a hypothetical.

Edited by Royal

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I've never heard of this frequency you refer too. Never mind, I forgot this is a hypothetical.

okay...

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If humankind suddenly could detect demons, it stands to reason that demons existed before the detection methods. Therefore the world wouldn't change much other than people suddenly getting creeped out more frequently. Inventors will start coming up with anti-demon technology that will or will not work. You'll get the demon-detect phone app and the iDemon by apple. Goths will want their own demon pet. More on-the-fence religious people will tip over to the believing side.

I really don't think much would change in any drastic way.

People know there is evil in the world already, unless they're totally ignorant of genocides, wars, most history, murder, rape, etc. And most of them don't pay it any mind.

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Hypothetical my hinder. Everyone already knows that 95% of the population are demons.

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Posted (edited)

Hypothetical or not, this wouldn't happen. Science would simply slap a mental illness name on it and be done with it.

Edited by The Skater Boy

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Posted (edited)

Hypothetical or not, this wouldn't happen. Science would simply slap a mental illness name on it and be done with it.

That already happens but it's industrial drugs taking over the "science". Science discovering demons would reduce (drug) profits until the demon industry got up to speed.

Edited by markprice
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If humankind suddenly could detect demons, it stands to reason that demons existed before the detection methods. Therefore the world wouldn't change much other than people suddenly getting creeped out more frequently. Inventors will start coming up with anti-demon technology that will or will not work. You'll get the demon-detect phone app and the iDemon by apple. Goths will want their own demon pet. More on-the-fence religious people will tip over to the believing side.

I really don't think much would change in any drastic way.

People know there is evil in the world already, unless they're totally ignorant of genocides, wars, most history, murder, rape, etc. And most of them don't pay it any mind.

You're probably right, and the Apple iDemon app sounds good. People don't tend to lean towards benevolence even after malevolence is exposed. Hitler is a good example: most people think he was evil but the Muslim Brotherhood fully supported him then sheltered surviving Nazis and they consider themselves to be benevolent...

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Just like the hypothetical scenario that one day another animal species will develop the ability to talk.

Maybe it will be cats (ya, ya this is hypothetical, I know about voice boxes and stuff so save it) and they will tell us they can see demons (thus they will be our demon detection system) then the cats will tell us to leave them (the cats themselves) alone so they can just relax.

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The question becomes: how do we handle it?

Actually, a question you may wish to ask prior to that is whether it needs to be handled or not. The next question needs to be how do we go about gathering reliable information on the behaviour of these demons.

Do religions, mystery schools and science unite to protect the future or do they still insist on sects and mass murder; maybe oil companies decide to use demons to accurately locate oil and maybe some people want them as pets or whatever.

Regardless of whether demons are proven to be real or not, no religion, mystery school, or faith-based supernatural organization has ever successfully contributed reliable and reproducible data towards the understanding of any phenomena. Chances are pretty low they will suddenly increase in competence after this discovery.

Does everything continue on basically the same, or do people finally recognize the stark reality of evil, and its representatives, then decide to fight for the good of the future?

Well...in order:

1) Yes,

2) They should have a long time ago,

3) There are no representatives of evil; only practitioners of it,

4) People have been doing that since forever.

However, the main priority would be determining the behaviour and intent of the demons. Particularly regarding the assumptions of evil. The Bible doesn't have the greatest track record of inerrancy, and even if it did, let's face it, it is only one side of the story, and the winner's side at that.

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Cat's can't see demons, cat's only can see ghosts. Get caught up on your Diskworld.

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I have to wonder about this idea that so much of the world thinks demons are real. You ask about them in detail and you soon find out that what has been translated "demon" is in each culture a very different thing.

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Everyone in every second search to get something , live to move and have something and be something , but not loose and abandon what he had. No one live to see and feel demons. But if it happens don't worry , there are many ideal prophets to show you , how to handle this serpent. Don't afraid, it is very easy task.

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However, the main priority would be determining the behaviour and intent of the demons. Particularly regarding the assumptions of evil. The Bible doesn't have the greatest track record of inerrancy, and even if it did, let's face it, it is only one side of the story, and the winner's side at that.

The intent would be Harm. That's a given. The behavior would be very intricate and tricky so Universities of Demonic Inquiry would probably be established...Evil is the principal and energy on which the demonic exists. For example Good or Divine have specific energies anyone can feel if given the chance, and so Evil also can be felt as an actual energy then recognized that way--that's the whole frequency thing brought into hypothetical fiction. The wisdom schools have their own intricate methods so you could say this is already being dealt with ineffectively, in silence outside the realm of ignorant masses. I think that is why they fail us ( the bible is based on and written by them). I just don't trust them.

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The intent would be Harm. That's a given.

Why would it be a given? According to whom?

The behavior would be very intricate and tricky so Universities of Demonic Inquiry would probably be established...

So, like humans, basically.

Evil is the principal and energy on which the demonic exists. For example Good or Divine have specific energies anyone can feel if given the chance, and so Evil also can be felt as an actual energy then recognized that way--that's the whole frequency thing brought into hypothetical fiction.

So, you are changing the parameters of this thought experiment?

The wisdom schools have their own intricate methods so you could say this is already being dealt with ineffectively, in silence outside the realm of ignorant masses.

Or you can say they are deluding themselves or scamming others. There is usually more than one possible explanation to anything.

I think that is why they fail us ( the bible is based on and written by them). I just don't trust them.

You shouldn't. You should apply the same standards to them as you do to science; trust, but verify, then go ahead and distrust.

Yes, I know many skeptics claim you shouldn't pre-judge, but let's face it: It is human nature to automatically distrust something that has repeatedly shown itself to be unreliable. In the same way that trust has to be earned, so is mistrust earned as well.

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So, you are changing the parameters of this thought experiment?

Just adding sense experience: people/animals can sense evil or divine (too many examples).

Would you agree with that? or are those that sense a malevolent presence mistaking an actual feeling that is often followed by visual experience. It's not like they just feel good or bad but actually evil or divine.

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Just adding sense experience: people/animals can sense evil or divine (too many examples).

That would be a "Yes", then. ^_^

Would you agree with that?

Not in the slightest. Animals and people can, occasionally, sense danger, but even that is an iffy proposition at best, and hardly a reliable skill.

or are those that sense a malevolent presence mistaking an actual feeling that is often followed by visual experience.

Pretty much. After all, it isn't too much of a jump from believing in corporal manifestations of evil to believing that you can detect them in one way or another. Most witch-hunts start off this way.

It's not like they just feel good or bad but actually evil or divine.

That's just it. They "feel". How the heck does evil feel? Evil? How does divine feel? Divine?

You rather casually say that there are too many examples of sensing evil or good. I guarantee that you have people in your examples sensing evil who are really just sensing opposition, and people sensing divinity who are worshiping Elmer Gantry. Changing people's minds is difficult, but doesn't take much to convince existing believers to go to the extremes of their beliefs.

I don't believe, however, that this thought experiment can move forward too far without a more solid definition of "Evil". Right now, you are just working under the assumption that everyone defines it the same way and everyone agrees that demons are inherently evil. This is not the case.

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That's just it. They "feel". How the heck does evil feel? Evil? How does divine feel? Divine?

The reason for adding physical sense is to expand on the idea of frequency.

Like people who do heroine feel more good than usual, someone in nirvana feels more divine than usual. Maybe someone has described what nirvana is like and anyone else who has been in that state would recognize what that feels like. Same with anything that is experienced by more than one person.

Evil on the other hand feels about the opposite of that; more like heroine withdrawals with more fear. Evil is also creepier--hense the effectiveness of horror movies: the subconscious will recognize it immediately, guaranteed...

I've felt two forms of evil. One is like a vacuum that drops all frequencies or vibrations known to such a degree it's mind boggling; it grinds consciousness to a halt, and dogs or cats will react. This is not a hypothetical, but anyway...the other is not empty but an unnatural vibration that makes your skin crawl. Both share an overwhelming sense of malevolence that is unmistakable

So basically the fictional theory is that there is a machine that reliably picks up whatever occurs in those situations.

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The reason for adding physical sense is to expand on the idea of frequency.

Prior to expanding...you need to actually state something about it.

Like people who do heroine feel more good than usual, someone in nirvana feels more divine than usual. Maybe someone has described what nirvana is like and anyone else who has been in that state would recognize what that feels like. Same with anything that is experienced by more than one person.

You are describing a "frequency" with one example of a drug that has a specific, mapped, predictable, physiological reaction, and another example of a state in which one feels nothing. I'm afraid I still don't understand.

Evil on the other hand feels about the opposite of that; more like heroine withdrawals with more fear. Evil is also creepier--hense the effectiveness of horror movies: the subconscious will recognize it immediately, guaranteed...

The main problem here is that you aren't really defining evil; you are just giving examples of it.

I've felt two forms of evil. One is like a vacuum that drops all frequencies or vibrations known to such a degree it's mind boggling; it grinds consciousness to a halt, and dogs or cats will react. This is not a hypothetical, but anyway...the other is not empty but an unnatural vibration that makes your skin crawl. Both share an overwhelming sense of malevolence that is unmistakable

So, basically...

You know its evil when you feel it?

Too subjective, man. I guarantee you that something you may feel is malevolent won't feel malevolent to someone else.

So basically the fictional theory is that there is a machine that reliably picks up whatever occurs in those situations.

So, to clarify, this thought experiment involves us imagining a device that detects the presence of desperation, creepiness, stillness, and malevolence, and assuming that when these elements are detected, a demonic force is present.

Personally, I wouldn't classify this as "evil" persay. More along the lines of "monstrous", perhaps. A monster can be evil, of course, but it doesn't have to be. Nor does this definition encompass the things we regularly refer to as evil among ourselves.

But, to answer your original question, not much would change. Why would it? If demons exist (and they are "evil"), then they exist not just then, but now as well. Being that what you describe above hasn't ever been an actual issue before, why would it be an issue now?

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You are describing a "frequency" with one example of a drug that has a specific, mapped, predictable, physiological reaction, and another example of a state in which one feels nothing. I'm afraid I still don't understand.

Both comfortably numb in totally different ways, or bliss.

The main problem here is that you aren't really defining evil; you are just giving examples of it.

How is that not better than defining it?

So, basically...

You know its evil when you feel it?

Too subjective, man. I guarantee you that something you may feel is malevolent won't feel malevolent to someone else.

I really doubt that because it is overwhelming.

So, to clarify, this thought experiment involves us imagining a device that detects the presence of desperation, creepiness, stillness, and malevolence, and assuming that when these elements are detected, a demonic force is present.

The only purpose of the device is to remove all doubt in the scientific community/population.

Personally, I wouldn't classify this as "evil" persay. More along the lines of "monstrous", perhaps. A monster can be evil, of course, but it doesn't have to be. Nor does this definition encompass the things we regularly refer to as evil among ourselves.

Yeah, that wouldn't be evil. Evil has to have evil intent...

But, to answer your original question, not much would change. Why would it? If demons exist (and they are "evil"), then they exist not just then, but now as well. Being that what you describe above hasn't ever been an actual issue before, why would it be an issue now?

I think that is the answer because human nature doesn't seem to change in general.

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I think that is the answer because human nature doesn't seem to change in general.

Well, that's another discussion in and of itself. Human behaviour, strangely enough, does seem to be changing, despite how stable it is overall.

In all cases, I don't think anything would change not because of human nature, but rather because there is little that can actually be changed. Unless we change the parameters of this thought experiment yet again to being able to actually affect demonic creatures.

Both comfortably numb in totally different ways, or bliss.

Divinity feels like a morphine drip?

How is that not better than defining it?

Showing examples of something doesn't indicate that you actually understand it. Showing you pictures of standard car engines doesn't mean I know how a car engine works. If someone pointed to an electrical car engine, I wouldn't be able to classify it as a car engine because it doesn't match my examples. I would have to be able to define what a car engine is and adoes in order to classify this unknown entity as a car engine.

I really doubt that because it is overwhelming.

Again, what overwhelms you is not guaranteed to overwhelm everyone.

The only purpose of the device is to remove all doubt in the scientific community/population.

Yes, I understand that part. You are, basically, establishing the phenomena. The only part I disagree with is the classification of it. It doesn't match the use of the word.

Yeah, that wouldn't be evil. Evil has to have evil intent...

You can't use a word to define itself. If you can't define evil, you can't define evil intent.

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Posted (edited)

Well, assuming they existed as you defined it, they would probably be used as a scapegoat for every evil committed by mankind. Of course you would have to accept the flip side as well and all good things would probably be credited to angels. People would also probably start surrendering their decision making to the demons and angels knowing that their free will is meaningless and that powers beyond their control influence and manipulate their life. Makes for a good book actually, story of a woman that brutally murders her children and blames demons, but the demons didn't do it. Maybe have the angels stand by and do nothing because in the end it will be for a greater good or something. Have the demons fight a legal defense to prove their innocence, knowing that justice would thwart the greater good the angels are striving for. Ah, the possibilities one has when applying physical form to abstract concepts!

Edited by Gromdor

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Divinity feels like a morphine drip?

I wasn't that impressed with morphine; more like percocet...I think you are missing the point: they (divinity/evil) can both be felt.

Showing examples of something doesn't indicate that you actually understand it. Showing you pictures of standard car engines doesn't mean I know how a car engine works. If someone pointed to an electrical car engine, I wouldn't be able to classify it as a car engine because it doesn't match my examples. I would have to be able to define what a car engine is and adoes in order to classify this unknown entity as a car engine.

I saw that the opposite, meaning a definition cannot equal the experience.

The only part I disagree with is the classification of it. It doesn't match the use of the word.

Evil: the intent to do harm motivated by sheer malevolence; opposite of what heaven feels like.

If you can't define evil, you can't define evil intent.

Done. Imagination is also very useful here and for visualizing evil in art. Artists throughout history do the job of the fictional machine in any way they can with zero scientific credibility.(see if it shows up this way):

41JYIC%2B9qzL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_SX225_SY300_CR,0,0,225,300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

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Easy answer....

If this happened, religion would have a huge growing. People would tend to be more sharing, and start " believing " in a " maker ".

People would start being nice more often, knowing that all of the stories have been true. People would have the " fear of God ".

Would be a nice thing really. Finally, people knowing when they do stupid things, and mean things, they will have to answer for it.

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