Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
supervike

Wealth Distribution.

212 posts in this topic

I got that feeling. But what "I" thought before the clip was reality. In terms of the chart in the clip, does "all of that wealth" benefit this nation better being concentrated in the hands of the few or does it benefit more by being redistributed? I believe that it benefits us in the former. Redistribution of wealth just wastes a valuable resource. If it is concentrated as in investment, it provides a better environment for the individual to succeed on his own.

This is the disconnect. What does it matter how big the gap gets as long as both are rising? What would this chart look like if it included the world? And where would our poorest be located on this chart?

In the ideal, poverty is a temporary situation and should only encompass the bottom 5% in a healthy economy. The poverty line currently sits at 15%. But by comparing the 6%-15% to the rest of the world, it's clear that they can still take care of themselves to some degree. So that raises the question, how much does anyone need to live on? This chart already shows that it is not very much. But there is a caveat to this. At the other end you have the wealthy with more money than they know what to do with. But the intangible here is that this concentration of wealth allows that poverty line to meander upward and still allow the individual the ability to take care of themselves. And that's key. That gives those in poverty more time to pick themselves up and improve their situation. Without this concentration of wealth, they would end up lingering in poverty. The question for the individual is then, how does one go get it? The wealth of the wealthy may dwarf even the middle class but this is a non sequitur measure.

And that sounds like majority rule or mob rule. You do realize that our Founding Fathers did everything to keep us from being a Democracy? They knew what Democracies evolved into. And they warned us about the extremes of Democracy. Everyone has an opinion of what fair is but the minute it imposes some restriction on someone else, then does it remain fair?

Actually we do. That is the nature of the beast. This in not some Socialist Utopia where we are all sitting around the campfire singing Kumbaya. We are hunters and the jungle is where we thrive in. This is our nature. Not being corralled like cattle. Even the inner city takes on characteristics of the jungle.

The highlighted bit is factually incorrect. the majority of the population have seen real wages stagnate or decline in the last 30years. It was only be access to cheap credit and morgaging their property that they managed to maintain the illusion of been more prosperous. This ruse collapsed when credit became unavailable due to the credit cruch and many of those middle class people day of reconing came and they lost their houses and their spending power.

The increase in wealth over the last 30years has in real wage terms almost totally gravitated to the top 1% of the population, and the bottom 15% have become substantially poorer.

What do you do with the reality that most people will never be or want to become business leaders. What do you do with all of the people who's jobs have been sent to the far east. What do you do with a broken economy that no longer needs the people it was built on ?

Answer those questions before praising the lucky few who made it big.

Br Cornelius

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it's not just the usa .. it's everywhere

the goverment benfit from the rich .. the rich benfit from goverment = corruption

the only loser team is the poor in this case

i agree with you Cornelius you're a spot on

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are first and foremost social creatures who thrive in balanced societies where the represented and the representative can see each other on almost equal terms. It is an lie to say that the social Darwinist view of the world is the only and best way to live - it is more mythology by the people who wrote the rules to make society that way.

Corruption thrives when people become guettoized into rich and poor neighbourhoods and we see our fellow citizens as our enemies.

Br Cornelius

Are you a Communist?

'Corruption thrives when people become ghettoised into rich and poor neighbourhoods' - There is no evidence supporting this assertion. We find the USSR had rampant corruption as does present day China.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it's not just the usa .. it's everywhere

the goverment benfit from the rich .. the rich benfit from goverment = corruption

the only loser team is the poor in this case

i agree with you Cornelius you're a spot on

How is paying a doctor $150k or an accountant $80k a year corruption?

They provide valuable services to society which only a few have the intelligence to do. Therefore we reward them based on their value towards society through a higher wage.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Are you a Communist?

'Corruption thrives when people become ghettoised into rich and poor neighbourhoods' - There is no evidence supporting this assertion. We find the USSR had rampant corruption as does present day China.

Am I a communist - funny. just an average Jo who can see things going very bad and a happy future for my children getting harder to find.

Corruption is rampant across America, the UK and Ireland - countries where "wealth" expanded massively among a tiny minority over the last 30years. Last time I looked it was the corruption of the American and UK financial markets which has brought the world economy to its knees and consigned the Western nations to a terminal decline.

You can point the finger at China and Russia all you like - but that doesn't diminish the rampant corruption in you own back garden under your own system.

The evidence of the last 5 years shows that the business community, markets and governments were in a virtuous circle of turning a blind eye to rampant market corruption - and it all happened because it was opaque to society because of a light regulatory touch and a regulator who was asleep on the job, and it is still going on at a massive scale.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am I a communist - funny. just an average Jo who can see things going very bad and a happy future for my children getting harder to find.

Corruption is rampant across America, the UK and Ireland - countries where "wealth" expanded massively among a tiny minority over the last 30years. Last time I looked it was the corruption of the American and UK financial markets which has brought the world economy to its knees and consigned the Western nations to a terminal decline.

You can point the finger at China and Russia all you like - but that doesn't diminish the rampant corruption in you own back garden under your own system.

The evidence of the last 5 years shows that the business community, markets and governments were in a virtuous circle of turning a blind eye to rampant market corruption - and it all happened because it was opaque to society because of a light regulatory touch and a regulator who was asleep on the job, and it is still going on at a massive scale.

Br Cornelius

I live near a housing estate which is full of people with criminal records, drug and alcohol addictions, no qualifications and anti-social tendancies. These things are responsible for their deprived situations not a corrupt financial situation. From my life experiences your perceptions of some kind of conspiracy to keep people poor is just wrong.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I live near a housing estate which is full of people with criminal records, drug and alcohol addictions, no qualifications and anti-social tendancies. These things are responsible for their deprived situations not a corrupt financial situation. From my life experiences your perceptions of some kind of conspiracy to keep people poor is just wrong.

I wouldn't stand up for any one of them, but this is classic blaming the victim for his circumstances. Its a right wing play which allows them to take no responsibility for the state of the nation and their part in how it got that way. Do you not think that when the jobs were there, every one of them was just an average Jo working to put bread on the table. The jobs flew away because it was cheaper to get the work done in China. Result , an underclass and a permanently broken society. I blame the people who took the work away.

i do not and never have thought of it as a conspiracy to keep people poor. I see it as an inevitable end point of Neo-Liberal economic theory, its the reality and downside of the fantasy of trickle down economics and a rising tide lifts all boats. It doesn't, Neo-Liberal economic theory consistently empoverishes a large proportion of the society it is applied to - there is ample evidence of how it increases wealth disparity where ever it is tried. If it was a conspiracy, it was a conspiracy of the naive to believe the self serving hype of a bunch of Ivory Tower economists that never had to face the consequences of their "perfectly Functioning market" in practice.

About inherited wealth, an interesting article;

http://blogs.wsj.com...herited-wealth/

It also masks the fact that most wealth these days is vested in corporations rather than individuals.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I wouldn't stand up for any one of them, but this is classic blaming the victim for his circumstances. Its a right wing play which allows them to take no responsibility for the state of the nation and their part in how it got that way. Do you not think that when the jobs were there, every one of them was just an average Jo working to put bread on the table. The jobs flew away because it was cheaper to get the work done in China. Result , an underclass and a permanently broken society. I blame the people who took the work away.

i do not and never have thought of it as a conspiracy to keep people poor. I see it as an inevitable end point of Neo-Liberal economic theory, its the reality and downside of the fantasy of trickle down economics and a rising tide lifts all boats. It doesn't, Neo-Liberal economic theory consistently empoverishes a large proportion of the society it is applied to - there is ample evidence of how it increases wealth disparity where ever it is tried. If it was a conspiracy, it was a conspiracy of the naive to believe the self serving hype of a bunch of Ivory Tower economists that never had to face the consequences of their "perfectly Functioning market" in practice.

About inherited wealth, an interesting article;

http://blogs.wsj.com...herited-wealth/

It also masks the fact that most wealth these days is vested in corporations rather than individuals.

Br Cornelius

People tend to believe that how they see things is how everybody else sees them. What life experiences have led you to your perceptions?

Edited by Giant Killer B

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

People tend to believe that how they see things is how everybody else sees them. What life experiences have led you to your perceptions?

My position on Neo-Liberalism is based on evidence.

My position on the underclass is just plain old vanilla common sense. Also I had the privilage of living through Margaret Thatchers revolution and not getting suckered into morgaging my life away.

You don't have to sympathize with a criminal to understand why he might have chosen his path in life, and that it probably wasn't want he wanted out of life.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have found that if you quit focusing on the 1% and mind your own damn business, you can make your own life better.

I dont care how big the gap is between my annual pay and that of Obama or Kerry or Romney.

All i care about is that i am happy and that i have the OPPORTUNITY to make my salary increase if i so choose to put in the extra effort.

The main reason the Middle class is growing stagnant is because the Govt keeps trying to prop up the lower class at the expense of the middle class.

If you work your rear off all day and are dirt poor, you need to re-evaluate your situation.

I grew up dirt poor, single parent, two kids.

I am happy as can be right now as a middle class person raising a family. I dont let the fact that others make more than i do bother me.

The words "disparity" and "redistribution" truly sicken me when words like "Education" and "Opportunity" are out there to counter them.

There will not be civil unrest as long as there is freedom of choice. Show me a poor person and i'll show you a person who blames everyone but themselves.

Look at the High School drop out rate. its close to 30%. There is the beginning of the next generation of poor who will sit back and complain and take from the govt.

Yet its those darn rich peoples fault.

Give me a break.

7 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Corruption thrives when people become guettoized into rich and poor neighbourhoods and we see our fellow citizens as our enemies.

Br Cornelius

Yet you seem to view the rich as your enemy, even though they are fellow citizens. Hmm...

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

My position on Neo-Liberalism is based on evidence.

My position on the underclass is just plain old vanilla common sense. Also I had the privilage of living through Margaret Thatchers revolution and not getting suckered into morgaging my life away.

You don't have to sympathize with a criminal to understand why he might have chosen his path in life, and that it probably wasn't want he wanted out of life.

Br Cornelius

The cultures which exist within the lower classes have a destructive impact on their life prospects. The rich havent given them that culture they have through their own negativity. The 'us and them' mentality which they have is their own creation. The only thing I think is unfair is parents inducting their children with their own deeply flawed mindsets. However we live in a free society so it isnt the role of the government to nanny the children.

The door remains open for anybody in the lower classes who shows that they have the skills, passion and drive to make something of their lives if they obey the law. Nobody holds them back and I'll think you'll find those in middle/higher classes are quite impressed by someone who has the strength of character to increase their social mobility. However attitudes such as 'you're all corrupt' and 'I'm entitled to everything' get you nowhere exept attitude back.

Edited by Giant Killer B
3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yet you seem to view the rich as your enemy, even though they are fellow citizens. Hmm...

Not really, I see the system we operate as the enemy of us all - rich and poor.

I am happy with what I have, which is very modest and do not envy anyone with greater wealth - but that doesn't mean that I am happy to see a system which fails to serve the needs of most of its citizens, with little prospect of improvement into the forseeable future.

I really do see civil unrest as the inevitable consequence of the situation that persists in America - and that can't be good for any of us.

Br Cornelius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have found that if you quit focusing on the 1% and mind your own damn business, you can make your own life better.

I dont care how big the gap is between my annual pay and that of Obama or Kerry or Romney.

All i care about is that i am happy and that i have the OPPORTUNITY to make my salary increase if i so choose to put in the extra effort.

The main reason the Middle class is growing stagnant is because the Govt keeps trying to prop up the lower class at the expense of the middle class.

If you work your rear off all day and are dirt poor, you need to re-evaluate your situation.

I grew up dirt poor, single parent, two kids.

I am happy as can be right now as a middle class person raising a family. I dont let the fact that others make more than i do bother me.

The words "disparity" and "redistribution" truly sicken me when words like "Education" and "Opportunity" are out there to counter them.

There will not be civil unrest as long as there is freedom of choice. Show me a poor person and i'll show you a person who blames everyone but themselves.

Look at the High School drop out rate. its close to 30%. There is the beginning of the next generation of poor who will sit back and complain and take from the govt.

Yet its those darn rich peoples fault.

Give me a break.

Applause

Not really, I see the system we operate as the enemy of us all - rich and poor.

I am happy with what I have, which is very modest and do not envy anyone with greater wealth - but that doesn't mean that I am happy to see a system which fails to serve the needs of most of its citizens, with little prospect of improvement into the forseeable future.

I really do see civil unrest as the inevitable consequence of the situation that persists in America - and that can't be good for any of us.

Br Cornelius

It really does sound like envy to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have found that if you quit focusing on the 1% and mind your own damn business, you can make your own life better.

I dont care how big the gap is between my annual pay and that of Obama or Kerry or Romney.

All i care about is that i am happy and that i have the OPPORTUNITY to make my salary increase if i so choose to put in the extra effort.

The main reason the Middle class is growing stagnant is because the Govt keeps trying to prop up the lower class at the expense of the middle class.

If you work your rear off all day and are dirt poor, you need to re-evaluate your situation.

I grew up dirt poor, single parent, two kids.

I am happy as can be right now as a middle class person raising a family. I dont let the fact that others make more than i do bother me.

The words "disparity" and "redistribution" truly sicken me when words like "Education" and "Opportunity" are out there to counter them.

There will not be civil unrest as long as there is freedom of choice. Show me a poor person and i'll show you a person who blames everyone but themselves.

Look at the High School drop out rate. its close to 30%. There is the beginning of the next generation of poor who will sit back and complain and take from the govt.

Yet its those darn rich peoples fault.

Give me a break.

Well said!

This countries current problem is the middle class being drained and leached upon to help prop up the welfare state.I do not worry about the top 1% as they do pay their fair share in taxes,and they do have and make valuable everyday things we have become dependent upon.

My problem is...for one example

I know a guy who lives a few blocks away from me,he has never had a job in his entire life,has 4 kids with 3 different women,wears extremely high cost clothes,shoes,jewelry...Has 2 very nice almost brand new cars,went to college on scholarship to play basketball,etc.

This guy can barely read,yet somehow got free money to go to college...4 kids that get fed with taxpayers dollars....has been to jail numerous times,yet still walks free...And still has all of this nice s**t.Cant blame all that on the 1%

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The cultures which exist within the lower classes have a destructive impact on their life prospects. The rich havent given them that culture they have through their own negativity. The 'us and them' mentality which they have is their own creation. The only thing I think is unfair is parents inducting their children with their own deeply flawed mindsets. However we live in a free society so it isnt the role of the government to nanny the children.

The door remains open for anybody in the lower classes who shows that they have the skills, passion and drive to make something of their lives if they obey the law. Nobody holds them back and I'll think you'll find those in middle/higher classes are quite impressed by someone who has the strength of character to increase their social mobility. However attitudes such as 'you're all corrupt' and 'I'm entitled to everything' get you nowhere exept attitude back.

Evidence on class mobility - and its decline - disproves your assertion.

We do all indeed have choices, but for many those choices are massively constrained by their circumstances.

America is broken.

Br Cornelius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Applause

It really does sound like envy to me.

You would be totally wrong, and that is your prism which says more about you than it does about me.

Br Cornelius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well said!

This countries current problem is the middle class being drained and leached upon to help prop up the welfare state.I do not worry about the top 1% as they do pay their fair share in taxes,and they do have and make valuable everyday things we have become dependent upon.

My problem is...for one example

I know a guy who lives a few blocks away from me,he has never had a job in his entire life,has 4 kids with 3 different women,wears extremely high cost clothes,shoes,jewelry...Has 2 very nice almost brand new cars,went to college on scholarship to play basketball,etc.

This guy can barely read,yet somehow got free money to go to college...4 kids that get fed with taxpayers dollars....has been to jail numerous times,yet still walks free...And still has all of this nice s**t.Cant blame all that on the 1%

The state is too soft on them.

I think they should enforce conscription for those kinds of people and make them work to pay for their children.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Evidence on class mobility - and its decline - disproves your assertion.

We do all indeed have choices, but for many those choices are massively constrained by their circumstances.

America is broken.

Br Cornelius

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility#Country_comparison (graph about halfway down)

The UK and US (those individualistic rather than communist countries you dont like) have the highest social mobility of all developed countries.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The state is too soft on them.

I think they should enforce conscription for those kinds of people and make them work to pay for their children.

Agreed,but whole cultures have now been taught this way of life since birth and the gov has made this possible.After all its just equality in action ;)

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://en.wikipedia....ntry_comparison (graph about halfway down)

The UK and US (those individualistic rather than communist countries you dont like) have the highest social mobility of all developed countries.

you should read what you source;

Several studies have been made comparing social mobility between developed countries. One such study (“Do Poor Children Become Poor Adults?")[5][21][22] found that of nine developed countries, the United States and United Kingdom had the lowest intergenerational vertical social mobility with about half of the advantages of having a parent with a high income passed on to the next generation.

Br Cornelius

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

you should read what you source;

Br Cornelius

Yes you quite rightly point out its most of those with a skilled parent who progress up the ladder. This is because parents induct their mentality into their children (as I pointed out a few posts back) and this determines how they see themselves and their life prospects. There is a culture issue here but it isnt the governments place to nanny people.

No where is there any evidence that the reason people are held back is because of corruption. Its the individuals own mindset which is the cause of their problems. For those who have the right mindset we have the fairest most socially mobile state on the planet. The American/British dream is very real and applies to all which is why immigrants flock here by the millions.

Your perceptions are wrong and if you alter them then you'll get somewhere (assuming you arent too old).

Edited by Giant Killer B
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Yes you quite rightly point out its most of those with a skilled parent who progress up the ladder. This is because parents induct their mentality into their children (as I pointed out a few posts back) and this determines how they see themselves and their life prospects. There is a culture issue here but it isnt the governments place to nanny people.

No where is there any evidence that the reason people are held back is because of corruption. Its the individuals own mindset which is the cause of their problems. For those who have the right mindset we have the fairest most socially mobile state on the planet. The American/British dream is very real and applies to all which is why immigrants flock here by the millions.

Your perceptions are wrong and if you alter them then you'll get somewhere (assuming you arent too old).

I am where I want to be and happy with it. Do not assume that yours is the only vision of the future - that arrogance really p***es me off.

Your society and the UK society will be in much worse state to weather the storms ahead than those social Democratic countries which encourage their citizens to acquire the skills needed to make the whole of society work. The dream you speak of is a nightmare of debt and isolation across much of America and the UK and it will turn nasty as fuel prices keep on rising and jobs keep on drifting to cheaper places. we cannot all be CEO's and Millionaires and what of the rest - what of the majority that have been left behind by your Neo-Liberal economics.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Lee Doren brought up some good points about this video. About 5:55 is when he asks what most people don't ask and don't want to hear.

[media=]

[/media] Edited by iNvRG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

America is broken.

Br Cornelius

America is Lazy and whiny.

Not all mind you, but enough to make some people actually believe that civil unrest is imminent.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.