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praetorian-legio XIII

Concealed Weapons=Lower Violent Crime

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This must really p*** off anti-gun advocates

http://www.thenewame...lent-crime-down

Now consider Chicago with the most severe gun control laws in the country and the highest violent crime rate.

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Concealed weapon = no-one saw you shoot that mugger!

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Criminals will think twice about attacking someone that is armed. They like easy prey.

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Like Kennesaw, Georgia where everyone that isn't a felon or crazy is required to have a gun. It's a suburd of Atlanta and crime is almost nonexistent.

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Like Kennesaw, Georgia where everyone that isn't a felon or crazy is required to have a gun. It's a suburd of Atlanta and crime is almost nonexistent.

I'm sure the effects of the law will work against crime but I have to disagree with forcing people to own one.

Although I read that it won't be enforced and no penalties will be implemented for failure to comply. But criminals beware nonetheless.

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The relationship between violent crime and gun ownership is not as clear cut as the OP would like to think. Looking past the provided link to the original ABC report reveals a bit more.

"Florida statistics show murderers are increasingly using firearms. Between 2000 and 2005, Florida's firearm-involved murder rate never topped 3.5 per 100,000 residents. Every year since, it has exceeded that number. And in 2011, for the first time on record, guns were used in more than 70 percent of homicides".

It seems that whatever your stance on gun control, you can find some statistic to back up your opinion.

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The solution is not to toss in more guns. The more armed people there are might make you feel safer but its a placebo effect. Sure petty criminals might die down. But what could be put in place is a kind of arms race. Which is what happened between organized Crime and the Police.

If you guys down south want to stop crime perhaps you should start looking into why crime is so high in the first place. Instead of arming everyone.

~Thanato

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Where does it end though, pilgrims? I can totally understand arming yourself if all the bad guys guys are armed but it could end up in with you walking around like Rambo with grenades hanging round your neck and an assault rifle slung over your shoulder! A mini arms race, if you're not careful.

Disclaimer: I'm only saying this an outsider looking in so please don't crucify me. I of course have no idea of the realities of everyday life in the US. I do like you though. :)

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The solution is not to toss in more guns. The more armed people there are might make you feel safer but its a placebo effect. Sure petty criminals might die down. But what could be put in place is a kind of arms race. Which is what happened between organized Crime and the Police.

If you guys down south want to stop crime perhaps you should start looking into why crime is so high in the first place. Instead of arming everyone.

~Thanato

Well there are plenty of places here down south that have almost no crime at all.Small towns where almost everyone owns firearms,have been around them all of their lives,and can handle them properly and accuratly.In some of these towns i can tell you why there is almost no crime....1.Everyone is armed and others know it....2.No gang problems like in big cities...3.Not many drug problems or dealers....4.If something bad does happen the citizens do not sit around like a bunch of lib dems waiting for some authority figure to come hand out a slap on the wrist or some stern words...5.The people know each other and watch out for each other.

Im not saying this about all places down south hell im originally from New Orleans,just saying us simple country folk can have guns,stay alive,and have a thought or two every now and then without gov help or ranting and raving about gun control ;)

With that said it just seems odd to me that our gov is so worried about its own citizens being armed when they have been giving millions in aid for many years to countries like NK.Surely all that money went to help the average citizens eat?Surely it didnt go to help build up arms and feed troops that could one day give us more problems than some lone maniac with a gun? :o

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The solution is not to toss in more guns. The more armed people there are might make you feel safer but its a placebo effect. Sure petty criminals might die down. But what could be put in place is a kind of arms race. Which is what happened between organized Crime and the Police.

If you guys down south want to stop crime perhaps you should start looking into why crime is so high in the first place. Instead of arming everyone.

~Thanato

So are you suggesting if we give up our guns the criminals will also? :w00t:

As too why crime is so high that's freaking simple. they do it because they know they can get away with it and if they do get caught the worst they face is three hots, a cot, free cable, free gym, free clothes, free school, and a free shrink to tell them they are a product of their enviroment and not a bad person.

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Well there are plenty of places here down south that have almost no crime at all.Small towns where almost everyone owns firearms,have been around them all of their lives,and can handle them properly and accuratly.In some of these towns i can tell you why there is almost no crime....1.Everyone is armed and others know it....2.No gang problems like in big cities...3.Not many drug problems or dealers....4.If something bad does happen the citizens do not sit around like a bunch of lib dems waiting for some authority figure to come hand out a slap on the wrist or some stern words...5.The people know each other and watch out for each other.

Im not saying this about all places down south hell im originally from New Orleans,just saying us simple country folk can have guns,stay alive,and have a thought or two every now and then without gov help or ranting and raving about gun control ;)

With that said it just seems odd to me that our gov is so worried about its own citizens being armed when they have been giving millions in aid for many years to countries like NK.Surely all that money went to help the average citizens eat?Surely it didnt go to help build up arms and feed troops that could one day give us more problems than some lone maniac with a gun? :o

I grew up in a small town where not even half the population is armed, hell I'm sure about a quarter of the population owns a weapon. We still had a very low crime rate, same with all the small towns around me. The larger (yet still small by Yankee Standards) Cities still had relatively low crime rates even though a good chunk of the population was not armed. So having a well armed population doesn't seem to directly correlate to having a safe population.

Honestly I believe it has to do with the culture of Violence and poor social system in the US, such as the poor education system which forgets about people. Why is crime such a massive problem in the US Today. IF the US spent more money on public education paying teachers properly, rebuilding schools, making a kids time in school worth while with more programs. Then I'm sure the number of drop outs would reduce, the number of kids in gangs would fall.

People need to realize that you can only protect yourself with a gun if you are faster then the person who drew on you.

So are you suggesting if we give up our guns the criminals will also? :w00t:

As too why crime is so high that's freaking simple. they do it because they know they can get away with it and if they do get caught the worst they face is three hots, a cot, free cable, free gym, free clothes, free school, and a free shrink to tell them they are a product of their enviroment and not a bad person.

No that its not what I'm saying. What I am saying is if Criminals want to rob you they will. How good is your gun in your holster if there is a gun in your back? Pretty useless. It will also make criminals more dangerous. Because it will turn into a real life or death fight for both sides. Gangs will get more powerful guns, such as more automatics etc. I can just see bad things happening.

Now don't get me wrong, I have no problem with firearms, however I do not think people should be walking around with guns on there hips. Eventually this will end badly for some innocent person.

~Thanato

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Posted (edited)

What I am saying is if Criminals want to rob you they will. How good is your gun in your holster if there is a gun in your back? Pretty useless. It will also make criminals more dangerous. Because it will turn into a real life or death fight for both sides. Gangs will get more powerful guns, such as more automatics etc. I can just see bad things happening.

Now don't get me wrong, I have no problem with firearms, however I do not think people should be walking around with guns on there hips. Eventually this will end badly for some innocent person.

~Thanato

i guess it is nice to live in denial.real world proves everything you say, wrong.

there are less crimes in areas where ppl aremed, many ppl don't become victims, and often turn tables around on criminals that try to assault them. becouse of guns. those are the facts, argue all you want, but your opinion, is contradicted by reality.

all yours what if situations, are more in your head than anywhere else. not to mention idiotic mentality, "if i don't resist a robber he wont hurt me", that you keep advocating.

Edited by aztek
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Posted (edited)

The relationship between violent crime and gun ownership is not as clear cut as the OP would like to think. Looking past the provided link to the original ABC report reveals a bit more.

"Florida statistics show murderers are increasingly using firearms. Between 2000 and 2005, Florida's firearm-involved murder rate never topped 3.5 per 100,000 residents. Every year since, it has exceeded that number. And in 2011, for the first time on record, guns were used in more than 70 percent of homicides".

It seems that whatever your stance on gun control, you can find some statistic to back up your opinion.

actually it is very clear, and your facts prove it. all very logical actually.]

since florida enacted SYG law ppl are not afraid to use their legal guns, to protect themselves from attacs, they are not afraid of legal problems they would otherwise face, so they kill those that try to rob\rape\assult them. nothing wrong with shootings as long as right people get shot. that is why you see more homicides using guns. (too bad they call any murder himicide, even justified shootings. or may be it is not convinient for gun hatters"crime figters" to reveal details)

if legal system can't prevent attacs on ppl, and police can't protect people everytime\anywhere, it is a crime not to let ppl protect themselves. and florida realised it, and it shows that it works. so yea, good for floridians.

Edited by aztek

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i guess it is nice to live in denial.real world proves everything you say, wrong.

there are less crimes in areas where ppl aremed, many ppl don't become victims, and often turn tables around on criminals that try to assault them. becouse of guns. those are the facts, argue all you want, but your opinion, is contradicted by reality.

all yours what if situations, are more in your head than anywhere else. not to mention idiotic mentality, "if i don't resist a robber he wont hurt me", that you keep advocating.

Real world proves the guy with the biggest stick is King. If you want to live in the 'Wild West' feel free, but I'm glad I live in a Nation which isn't afraid to go outside. People don't need to carry guns because they arn't threatened. Sure we have our bad areas but they pale in comparison to the United States. Now ask yourself why is that? Why does my nation have 1 gun per 3 peoples yet we don't have nearly the gun crime you guys do?

Your facts are only apparent in the United States. In many nations, more guns = more crime and death. In many nations people are safe with out the need to carry a gun. There is something wrong with the US, deep down society is sick. You can't keep bandaging the problem by throwing in more weapons. You guys need to realize that your society needs to change. Fix your problems. Spend less on your military (you know cut 300 billion and put that into Schools, Science, Healthcare, NASA.) You guys need to solve this big issue. But unfortinatly people feel the need to buy more guns... more guns... more guns... There is nothing wrong with owning guns, for hunting, leisure etc. But to have tens of millions of people believe that the only way they can feel safe is to be armed to the teeth. That shows there is something wrong.

~Thanato

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I have three guns in my house and no crime. Works for me.

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1.Real world proves the guy with the biggest stick is King. 2.Your facts are only apparent in the United States.

1 yes it does.2 and that is all that matters, what it comes to situation in USA.doesn't matter what happens in other countries, we are not other countries.

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I'm sure the effects of the law will work against crime but I have to disagree with forcing people to own one.

Although I read that it won't be enforced and no penalties will be implemented for failure to comply. But criminals beware nonetheless.

Exactly...criminals assume everyone has one.

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Posted (edited)

Seriously, Thanato...when your media focuses more on what happens in the US than the crimes that are commited in Canada, you have the nerve to talk about our media? The majority of crimes in the US are commited by gang members, but your media barely mentions anything but high profile cases in Canada.

Like you said about our news media scaring us, your media makes you complacent into thinking "it doesn't happen here". Out of sight out of mind, as the saying goes.

Edited by Michelle
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Seriously, Thanato...when your media focuses more on what happens in the US than the crimes that are commited in Canada, you have the nerve to talk about our media? The majority of crimes in the US are commited by gang members, but your media barely mentions anything but high profile cases in Canada.

Like you said about our news media scaring us, your media makes you complacent into thinking "it doesn't happen here". Out of sight out of mind, as the saying goes.

Actually our news does focus on Canadian issues, such as the Gang related shooting at the Yorkdale Mall in Toronto a few days back. Or that the city I moved from had 50 some odd Mac's Store (Convenience Store Chain) robberies in about 4 months. Or that a few months back there was a murder in my home town (a town of 2600 people). A 7.62x39mm Round snapped past my head, so I know what it's like to be shot at, I know what it's like to carry a gun 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

I'm just not afraid to walk down the street. I don't need to be armed with a firearm in my home, or when I go out. I don't feel scared of everyone.

Does this mean I am anti-gun? Nope, I am just waiting for my license so I can purchase a rifle. I am pro gun control.

~Thanato

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Actually our news does focus on Canadian issues, such as the Gang related shooting at the Yorkdale Mall in Toronto a few days back. Or that the city I moved from had 50 some odd Mac's Store (Convenience Store Chain) robberies in about 4 months. Or that a few months back there was a murder in my home town (a town of 2600 people). A 7.62x39mm Round snapped past my head, so I know what it's like to be shot at, I know what it's like to carry a gun 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

I'm just not afraid to walk down the street. I don't need to be armed with a firearm in my home, or when I go out. I don't feel scared of everyone.

Does this mean I am anti-gun? Nope, I am just waiting for my license so I can purchase a rifle. I am pro gun control.

~Thanato

In most places no one is or should be afraid to walk down the street without a gun. It's when you get close to the city you should be cautious. The reason is because of all the numbskull criminals, gang bangers and wannabe's that have guns there. You know, the same people who will have guns with or without gun control. You know another thing? We have plenty of gun control laws already. What's one more gonna do? The more control implemented leads to more in the hands of those who live outside the realms of control. Your view of America is wrong. Our media and elected officials are misinforming you. I've lived here for 33 years and have never once witnessed a shooting or seen anyone brandish a gun on someone else. I've been within the vicinity of a few shooting but that's when I lived in an urban neighborhood and those were all from gangs and punks like the 15 year old who shot an Indian small store owner. He waited for the guy to open up the store at nine in the morning and shot him in the head outside the store and stole $50 in cash from his person. The reason? The store owner kicked him out of the store the day before for stealing. Too bad the store owner didn't have a gun. The kid should be dead instead. He's probably out on the streets already.

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In most places no one is or should be afraid to walk down the street without a gun. It's when you get close to the city you should be cautious. The reason is because of all the numbskull criminals, gang bangers and wannabe's that have guns there. You know, the same people who will have guns with or without gun control. You know another thing? We have plenty of gun control laws already. What's one more gonna do? The more control implemented leads to more in the hands of those who live outside the realms of control. Your view of America is wrong. Our media and elected officials are misinforming you. I've lived here for 33 years and have never once witnessed a shooting or seen anyone brandish a gun on someone else. I've been within the vicinity of a few shooting but that's when I lived in an urban neighborhood and those were all from gangs and punks like the 15 year old who shot an Indian small store owner. He waited for the guy to open up the store at nine in the morning and shot him in the head outside the store and stole $50 in cash from his person. The reason? The store owner kicked him out of the store the day before for stealing. Too bad the store owner didn't have a gun. The kid should be dead instead. He's probably out on the streets already.

Well why do you think there are a number of Gangbangers on the streets? Why the increase of criminal activity? I honestly see it as a symptom of a much larger social ill of the United States, which if not cured will continue to erode at the Cities of the US.

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Well why do you think there are a number of Gangbangers on the streets? Why the increase of criminal activity? I honestly see it as a symptom of a much larger social ill of the United States, which if not cured will continue to erode at the Cities of the US.

It begins with parents and family upbringing. If broken family units weren't financially encouraged by the government then maybe less women would sleep around and more men would stick around. Yes its true that there are many many women are taught to have kids solely for the federal benefits. I understand the issue better than I can explain it but upbringing is one thing and work ethic is another. Hell, a slight desire to work would be a start.

On the other end of the spectrum some people are just plain messed up and no amount of laws or cures will ever solve that. It's a human issue, not an American one.

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This must really p*** off anti-gun advocates

http://www.thenewame...lent-crime-down

Now consider Chicago with the most severe gun control laws in the country and the highest violent crime rate.

I believe St. Louis has the highest violent crime rate and Missouri is a conceal carry state with very little gun control.

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So are you suggesting if we give up our guns the criminals will also? :w00t:

As too why crime is so high that's freaking simple. they do it because they know they can get away with it and if they do get caught the worst they face is three hots, a cot, free cable, free gym, free clothes, free school, and a free shrink to tell them they are a product of their enviroment and not a bad person.

No, but in countries with heavy gun control there is very little gun crime because guns are prohibitively expensive.

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actually it is very clear, and your facts prove it. all very logical actually.]

since florida enacted SYG law ppl are not afraid to use their legal guns, to protect themselves from attacs, they are not afraid of legal problems they would otherwise face, so they kill those that try to rob\rape\assult them. nothing wrong with shootings as long as right people get shot. that is why you see more homicides using guns. (too bad they call any murder himicide, even justified shootings. or may be it is not convinient for gun hatters"crime figters" to reveal details)

if legal system can't prevent attacs on ppl, and police can't protect people everytime\anywhere, it is a crime not to let ppl protect themselves. and florida realised it, and it shows that it works. so yea, good for floridians.

I'm not expressing any opinion on the rights and wrongs of private gun ownership. The point I made was that statistics like these can be used to bolster both sides of the argument. Your comment is a good example of that. You clearly support the right of civilians to carry firearms, and you naturally gravitate to the explanation which best supports your view. And you may well be right. To strengthen your argument you also speculate as to how many of these 'homicides' are people lawfully defending themselves, and assume this to be a major factor in those figures. That's just speculation - possibly true, but speculation nevertheless.

As I understand it there is no powerful evidence that would suggest a clear relationship between gun ownership and crime. People will see what they want to see. But then I've often thought the problem with American gun crime has little to do with anyone's right to bear arms. Even without access to guns, I suspect that Americans would still murder each other at a rate two to three times that of comparable countries.

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