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How Much Longer?


and-then

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Sorry about the broken link, tried twice to post but no luck, must be the older version of Firefox that I'm using:

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As opposed to, say, South Africa and Nelson Mandela?

Israel is a whole other entity, western media is heavily biased in its favour, a near invincible political lobby, it relies on Holocaust guilt, and denounces oppositions as anti-semites. These are weapons South Africa never had.

So the grind and brutality of oppressive regime continues to prevail.

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I'm not being funny, but even if Iran was making nukes... Can you seriously blame them? I mean logically think about if this was you:

Iran-wants-war.jpg

Maybe it is because Israel is a US ally?

Maybe because Israel is given billions of dollars yearly by the US?

Maybe because Israel refuses to permit the Palestinians their own sovereign self-sustainable country and state?

Maybe it is because the whole history of the State of Israel has been whitewashed lies and myths? These same whitewashed lies and myths are taught in the US curriculum as truths? In essence, Americans have been brainwashed by the Zionist version of their own history. History is afterall written by the victors, right?

Maybe because the Zionists committed wholesale robbery and terrorism of the Palestinians in order to become this oppressive state that continues on today?

Maybe because Israel is an apartheid by all definitions and sanctions state terrorism against civilians?

Maybe because people like me wonders how the State of Israel and pre-Babylonian apostate Israel truly measure up against one another? What is the tale of the tape?

I wish i could like this more than once. :clap:

Edited by Coffey
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I'm not being funny, but even if Iran was making nukes... Can you seriously blame them? I mean logically think about if this was you:

Iran-wants-war.jpg

I wish i could like this more than once. :clap:

With so many bases it's no wonder the US spends over $700 Billion + a year in defense! :tu:

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With so many bases it's no wonder the US spends over $700 Billion + a year in defense! :tu:

I think they need to change it to offense... lol

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Israel is a whole other entity, western media is heavily biased in its favour, a near invincible political lobby, it relies on Holocaust guilt, and denounces oppositions as anti-semites. These are weapons South Africa never had.

So the grind and brutality of oppressive regime continues to prevail.

So how would you solve it BJ? Every post drips venom about Israel. How would you solve the issue?
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The US should break down its military industrial complex into two groups: The Department of Defense and the Department of Offense.

Funds spent providing for the defense of these 50 states would go into the DoD basket: the "national defense". Beefing up bases in Alaska, California and the eastern seaboard would be examples of this.

Funds for when the bureaucrats run out of intelligent things to say and have to spend the peoples' money on violence to get their way would go into the DoO basket: military aggression.. If the DoO department gets nearly all of the funds, keeping these old relics from the Cold War - hundreds of military bases scattered across the globe built unconstitutionally without even being named in a treaty - then neoconservative ideology is still the heart of US foreign policy. :( Ditto for the UK and newer copycat players in the West.

Edited by Yamato
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Let's face it, this war is going to happen because somebody has already decided it will. Oh, won't it be a turn up for the books when we find absolutely no evidence of anything Obama has babbled on about like he was the second coming of Bush.

Wonder if he'll take another page outta Bush's book and say "oh well, one less dictator in the world" as some kind of justification for yet another illegal war in the middle east. I'm no conspiracy theorist but hot damn, if somebody can't see all this aggression towards the middle east is suspicious... god help humanity.

Suspicious would mean you believe it is totally unwarranted. I disagree. But I fully agree that humanity needs God's help - and soon. Iran will build it's bomb - that really can't be stopped without totally removing their governing Theocrats. Since that is impossible, welcome a new member to the nuclear club. Then we get to see a country that sits next to the energy jugular of most of the world start calling the shots for awhile on who's economy prospers and who's does not. Lovely, comforting thought, that. Then within a decade we will also have anEgyptian and Saudi bomb, maybe even some of the other Arab states. It seems inevitable that proliferation will be the end of humanity in our current "civilization".
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well ... all investments toward making and having bombs of MASS DESTRUCTION seems to show highest return of potential yield profits ...

If you're having so much fun having one why wouldn't everyone wants one now ?

On top of that ... all those broken promises of deArmament, reDuction ///

VIP status in a mad VIP world

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It is totally unwarranted. Or had you forgotten the actual outcomes of Iraq and Afghanistan? Iran will build its bomb like Iraq was building their bomb, right? :unsure2:

I realize that it's easy to make such a comparison but if you look at the evidence that is casually available and is accepted by most of the world you can see that Iran OPENLY DECLARES their right to the nuclear fuel cycle. They have multiple sites churning out enriched uranium - some of them buried deep to prevent them being bombed. No comparison with Iraq here. The real question is whether any country that desires nukes should have them and if not, then what can be done to stop it from happening. The answer seems to be that the world has decided that there is no justification for stopping any committed nation from acquiring nukes IF it requires a war to do so. Your generation is going to reap the fruit of that appeasement. I have a simple worldview but it seems reasonable in light of history. Mankind fights, kills steals, lusts after power. Always has, always will. Real evil exists in our world and has to be defended against or it will reign. When people do nothing it grows strong. If you need any real justification for the idea of bombing Iran before they can actually assemble a bomb, I commend your attention to North Korea.
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I know, I don't have to look far. Britain, United States - thats what you mean by evil, right?

It'll be a cold day in hell when I support war over telling a country they can't have what we have.

Everyone has them or nobody has them. End of the story for me.

Truer words have never been spoken. I admire your attachment to "fairness". Good luck with that.
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So how would you solve it BJ? Every post drips venom about Israel. How would you solve the issue?

Easy!

1. Cease the occupation of the West Bank and lift the siege off of Gaza

2. Dismantle all settlements in the West Bank with forcible if necessary removal of the settlers themselves

3. Israel give monetary and financial compensation to the Palestinians for the homes and lands seized and taken away during the events leading up to the formation of the State of Israel and the 1948 War written under U.N. Resolution 194 which states the Palestinian refugees are entitled and have the rights to compensation and repatriation.

This would do wonders to settle peace once and for all between Israel and the Palestinians.

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Easy!

1. Cease the occupation of the West Bank and lift the siege off of Gaza

2. Dismantle all settlements in the West Bank with forcible if necessary removal of the settlers themselves

3. Israel give monetary and financial compensation to the Palestinians for the homes and lands seized and taken away during the events leading up to the formation of the State of Israel and the 1948 War written under U.N. Resolution 194 which states the Palestinian refugees are entitled and have the rights to compensation and repatriation.

This would do wonders to settle peace once and for all between Israel and the Palestinians.

Just hand over the whole stash to Palestinia (sic) ?

They'll shoot this Jack again twice over multiple times .... they want Jerusalem ... not the 'lands'

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Just hand over the whole stash to Palestinia (sic) ?

They'll shoot this Jack again twice over multiple times .... they want Jerusalem ... not the 'lands'

Agreed, and they also, from their own mouths for many years, have stated they want to eradicate the "descendants of apes and pigs". When people dismiss the actual words being chanted and taught to children generation after generation then I feel they are complicit with what flows from that. BJ sees one side - always just one side. And the truth about those who are so concerned with the plight of the Palestinians is that they would probably not even bother with insincere lip service if a second holocaust happened. Hell, some would welcome it openly. Only that isn't going to ever play out the same again. The next time the whole world will burn, not just Israel. And the supporters of the Palestinians seem blind to it. Well, fire brings heat and light...
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Agreed, and they also, from their own mouths for many years, have stated they want to eradicate the "descendants of apes and pigs". When people dismiss the actual words being chanted and taught to children generation after generation then I feel they are complicit with what flows from that. BJ sees one side - always just one side. And the truth about those who are so concerned with the plight of the Palestinians is that they would probably not even bother with insincere lip service if a second holocaust happened. Hell, some would welcome it openly. Only that isn't going to ever play out the same again. The next time the whole world will burn, not just Israel. And the supporters of the Palestinians seem blind to it. Well, fire brings heat and light...

Nobody will allow another holocaust ... no matter how much the supporters of Palestine support the cause. This is a Zionapartheid policy that is disagreeable, which some is saying is as a holocaust on the Palestinians.

Anyways ... the GOlden Rule applies :

The Golden Rule existed among all the major philosophical schools of Ancient China: Mohism, Taoism, and Confucianism. Examples of the concept include:

  • "Zi Gong asked, saying, "Is there one word that may serve as a rule of practice for all one's life?" The Master said, "Is not reciprocity such a word?" – Confucius[13][14]
  • "Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself." – Confucius[15]
  • "If people regarded other people's families in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own family to attack that of another? "For one would do for others as one would do for oneself." – Mozi
  • "The sage has no interest of his own, but takes the interests of the people as his own. He is kind to the kind; he is also kind to the unkind: for Virtue is kind. He is faithful to the faithful; he is also faithful to the unfaithful: for Virtue is faithful." –Laozi[16]
  • "Regard your neighbor's gain as your own gain, and your neighbor's loss as your own loss." –Laozi[17]

"What you do not wish for yourself, do not do to others." Confucious

The Golden Rule or ethic of reciprocity is a maxim,[1] ethical code or morality[2] that essentially states either of the following:

  • (Positive form of Golden Rule): One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.[1]
  • (Negative form of Golden Rule): One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated (also known as the Silver Rule).

wiki Golden Rule

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Agreed, and they also, from their own mouths for many years, have stated they want to eradicate the "descendants of apes and pigs". When people dismiss the actual words being chanted and taught to children generation after generation then I feel they are complicit with what flows from that. BJ sees one side - always just one side. And the truth about those who are so concerned with the plight of the Palestinians is that they would probably not even bother with insincere lip service if a second holocaust happened. Hell, some would welcome it openly. Only that isn't going to ever play out the same again. The next time the whole world will burn, not just Israel. And the supporters of the Palestinians seem blind to it. Well, fire brings heat and light...

Please, do not forget that the 1st Holocaust affected Gypsies, Homosexuals, Intellectuals, Polish, Communists, Dissenters etc in equal numbers to those whose only crime was to be Jewish. Lets not also forget that Jews are not a homogeneous people, they have their extremists just as The nation of Islam does.

Israel (Govt) is concerned that Iran MAY get a nuclear device. but Israel has multiple Thermonuclear weapons in its arsenal, and has NEVER allowed the UN to verify this fact. So... Iran is a bit recalcitrant about allowing Nuclear Inspectors to visit its sites (but eventually allows this to happen) whereas Israel totally rejects ANY UN Inspectorate visits.

In reality, which ME Nation is the bigger threat to ME Stability?

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Please, do not forget that the 1st Holocaust affected Gypsies, Homosexuals, Intellectuals, Polish, Communists, Dissenters etc in equal numbers to those whose only crime was to be Jewish. Lets not also forget that Jews are not a homogeneous people, they have their extremists just as The nation of Islam does.

Israel (Govt) is concerned that Iran MAY get a nuclear device. but Israel has multiple Thermonuclear weapons in its arsenal, and has NEVER allowed the UN to verify this fact. So... Iran is a bit recalcitrant about allowing Nuclear Inspectors to visit its sites (but eventually allows this to happen) whereas Israel totally rejects ANY UN Inspectorate visits.

In reality, which ME Nation is the bigger threat to ME Stability?

Everything you say is true but I add one very important detail you and most here, leave out. This hatred that exists between Arab and Jew is generational. Many believe the Bible to be a book of fairy tales but it chronicles this hatred and the evidence of it is visible in our lives every day. Israel is a country of 8 million souls. Yet the whole darned WORLD seems to be offended by them. Most seem FAR less concerned with Assad's butchery in Syria or the radical Islamist tide rising in the M.E. It always gets back to Israel. I believe a day will come when the nations will allow an alliance to be formed for the purpose of destroying the Jewish state. Instead of simply discounting anything a Zionist might say, perhaps one could consider the oddity of the world being willing to risk a thermonuclear exchange just to see Israel removed? That is what will eventually happen if some accommodation is not made for Israel. The argument about land is a ruse. The Arab nations possess so much land they do not have the numbers to inhabit it properly but we are to believe that if Israel will only give up a little more of the precious small amount they have, then things will be fine and dandy. Land is not the issue. The existence in Palestine of a state of Jewish character is the issue. And I will add that the proof of this came when the Palestinians took Gaza and began using it as a base to make war on Israeli civilians. If Judea and Samaria are surrendered in a future "peace" deal the same will happen again and this time a general war will result that destabilizes the whole region.
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How is my view not fair?

Sorry, I was being a little sarcastic there. Many folks here use the concept of fairness when dealing with the issue of who gets nuclear weapons and it has been my contention that this question should be about much more than just "fairness". These weapons cannot be unmade. They will never be completely outlawed unless something even more effective comes about so we should do all we can, imo, to make it as difficult as possible for new countries to acquire them. For example, do you think it's a good idea that North Korea has the nuclear bomb? Eventually some country is going to acquire one and actually decide to USE it. The world decided a very long time ago that it's better to try and get along or even slog it out toe to toe with conventional armies than to use these things again. But the world is changing. God help us if one gets used because we were trying to be "fair" to a dictator or a crazy religious regime.
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Everything you say is true but I add one very important detail you and most here, leave out. This hatred that exists between Arab and Jew is generational. Many believe the Bible to be a book of fairy tales but it chronicles this hatred and the evidence of it is visible in our lives every day. Israel is a country of 8 million souls. Yet the whole darned WORLD seems to be offended by them. Most seem FAR less concerned with Assad's butchery in Syria or the radical Islamist tide rising in the M.E. It always gets back to Israel. I believe a day will come when the nations will allow an alliance to be formed for the purpose of destroying the Jewish state. Instead of simply discounting anything a Zionist might say, perhaps one could consider the oddity of the world being willing to risk a thermonuclear exchange just to see Israel removed? That is what will eventually happen if some accommodation is not made for Israel. The argument about land is a ruse. The Arab nations possess so much land they do not have the numbers to inhabit it properly but we are to believe that if Israel will only give up a little more of the precious small amount they have, then things will be fine and dandy. Land is not the issue. The existence in Palestine of a state of Jewish character is the issue. And I will add that the proof of this came when the Palestinians took Gaza and began using it as a base to make war on Israeli civilians. If Judea and Samaria are surrendered in a future "peace" deal the same will happen again and this time a general war will result that destabilizes the whole region.

Watch Israel... they have a long history of border provocations with their neighboring Arab states. I mean it... watch Israel and watch them carefully.

According to the U.N., Israel launched more than 17 military raids in one form or another on Egyptian-held territory between 1949-1956, and a total of 31 attacks against Arab towns or military forces during these 7 years.

Way back in 1954-1955, there were attempts to conquer large tracts of land in the Jordanian-held West Bank and there were also plans to invade the Egyptian Sinai. All under the pretext of "reprisal" actions that actually began with Israel stirring border provocations.

In the summer of 1954 was the notorious "Lavon Affair". Where Israel actually infiltrated Egypt and performed a series of terrorist bombings in Cairo and Alexandria. These targets were specifically selected so as to appear to be the work of anti-Western Egyptian terrorists. The targets included British and U.S. information centers, consulates, movie theatres, and other public buildings. The reasons: to sabotage British-Egyptian talks on the Suez Canal and to sabotage U.S.-Egyptian weapons negotiations. Egypt convicted and executed 2 Israeli terrorist infiltrators in February 1955. The Defense Minister of Israel, Ben-Gurion pressed for a retaliatory strike against Egyptian military headquarters in Gaza. Israel blew up train depots and water pumping stations, killing 39 Egyptian troops and wounding 32 others.

Do you know what common geographic feature both Rome and Jerusalem share, and then?

Both cities are surrounded by 7 hills. Revelations 11:8.

Edited by B Jenkins
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It must really be exasperating to apparently hate anything or anyone so much and not be able to strike at it/them. Not to argue BJ but if you are correct and God does not recognize these evil usurpers...why do they win every war? Why do they exist against all odds stacked against them for millennia? That should give rise to a question in your mind but it doesn't and I think it's because your hatred and bias won't allow it. If your implication is that the current state of Israel is Babylon then... okay... time will tell I guess. If you are correct then someday maybe you will see Jerusalem over run by Muslim armies and the city sacked and pillaged. You can live in hope, I guess. Wow...

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It must really be exasperating to apparently hate anything or anyone so much and not be able to strike at it/them. Not to argue BJ but if you are correct and God does not recognize these evil usurpers...why do they win every war? Why do they exist against all odds stacked against them for millennia? That should give rise to a question in your mind but it doesn't and I think it's because your hatred and bias won't allow it. If your implication is that the current state of Israel is Babylon then... okay... time will tell I guess. If you are correct then someday maybe you will see Jerusalem over run by Muslim armies and the city sacked and pillaged. You can live in hope, I guess. Wow...

Save your anti-muslim rhetoric. And there are many reasons Israel won these wars, better trained and better equipped militias in '48 including the illegal smuggling of Czech and other Eastern Bloc nations WWII surplus, the pre-emptive strikes in 67 that annihilated all of the Arab air forces, Israel almost lost and would have lost in '73 save for Operation Nickel Grass, and in 1982 Lebanon War has been likened to the US's Vietnam War... Israel used cluster bombs and illegal munitions in that one, and relied on carpet bombing. Thousands of innocent Palestinian and Lebanese civilians died due to Israel's use of these weapons.

Read up on Plan Dalet.

Funny thing is only in the 1973 War, was Israel not the first to strike. They weren't the invaders in that one ALONE.

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Everything you say is true but I add one very important detail you and most here, leave out. This hatred that exists between Arab and Jew is generational. Many believe the Bible to be a book of fairy tales but it chronicles this hatred and the evidence of it is visible in our lives every day. Israel is a country of 8 million souls. Yet the whole darned WORLD seems to be offended by them. Most seem FAR less concerned with Assad's butchery in Syria or the radical Islamist tide rising in the M.E. It always gets back to Israel. I believe a day will come when the nations will allow an alliance to be formed for the purpose of destroying the Jewish state. Instead of simply discounting anything a Zionist might say, perhaps one could consider the oddity of the world being willing to risk a thermonuclear exchange just to see Israel removed? That is what will eventually happen if some accommodation is not made for Israel. The argument about land is a ruse. The Arab nations possess so much land they do not have the numbers to inhabit it properly but we are to believe that if Israel will only give up a little more of the precious small amount they have, then things will be fine and dandy. Land is not the issue. The existence in Palestine of a state of Jewish character is the issue. And I will add that the proof of this came when the Palestinians took Gaza and began using it as a base to make war on Israeli civilians. If Judea and Samaria are surrendered in a future "peace" deal the same will happen again and this time a general war will result that destabilizes the whole region.

The Bible also states the Ten Commandments, which include....

“You shall not murder."

“You shall not steal."

“You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.”

The Israel government and people have broken all of those above, as far as I am aware

They have murdered....... (Palestinian people etc)

They have stole....... (Palestinian land)

They have done and still do, covet Palestinian land.......

Does that sound like something The Most High God would want ?

What Assad is doing is WRONG and I think that every moral person is concerned with that, but this topic has got nothing to do with Syria or Assad, or has it ?

Who has said that they want to see the Jewish state or Israel removed ? As far as I am aware no one has, what I would like to see is Israel treating Palestinian people/everyone with respect, and treating them as Israel would like to be treated, only then will Israel be on the path to peace

Land is part of the issue, Israel taking land that belong's to Palestine and treating them (Palestinians) like criminals in/on their own land

AS You once said in another topic

"as he seems to be one of those who dismiss the evils of everyone except Israel."

That can and does work both ways

I also personally think that You, Yourself dismiss the evil's of Israel while seeing the evil's of everyone else, especially Israel's enemies.......

.

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and then,

“Before the end of the mandate and, therefore before any possible intervention by Arab states, the Jews, taking advantage of their superior military preparation and organization, had occupied...most of the Arab cities in Palestine before May 15, 1948. Tiberias was occupied on April 19, 1948, Haifa on April 22, Jaffa on April 28, the Arab quarters in the New City of Jerusalem on April 30, Beisan on May 8, Safad on May 10 and Acre on May 14, 1948...In contrast, the Palestine Arabs did not seize any of the territories reserved for the Jewish state under the partition resolution.” British author, Henry Cattan, “Palestine, The Arabs and Israel.”

After reconfirming some numbers, I want to further add that at the start of the 1948 Israeli-Arab war on May 15, the Arab coalition committed 25,000 troops total, the newly declared state of Israel committed 35,000 troops.

At the height of the war's escalation by October 14, the Arab coalition committed 55,000 troops total largely ill-trained and inexperienced, while Israel committed approximately 100,000 troops (usually operating with interior lines of communication and included an estimated 20,000-25,000 European experienced WWII veterans).

Yes, this was quite the David and Goliath match up only not the one Zionist revisionist would have us believe.

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and then,

“Before the end of the mandate and, therefore before any possible intervention by Arab states, the Jews, taking advantage of their superior military preparation and organization, had occupied...most of the Arab cities in Palestine before May 15, 1948. Tiberias was occupied on April 19, 1948, Haifa on April 22, Jaffa on April 28, the Arab quarters in the New City of Jerusalem on April 30, Beisan on May 8, Safad on May 10 and Acre on May 14, 1948...In contrast, the Palestine Arabs did not seize any of the territories reserved for the Jewish state under the partition resolution.” British author, Henry Cattan, “Palestine, The Arabs and Israel.”

After reconfirming some numbers, I want to further add that at the start of the 1948 Israeli-Arab war on May 15, the Arab coalition committed 25,000 troops total, the newly declared state of Israel committed 35,000 troops.

At the height of the war's escalation by October 14, the Arab coalition committed 55,000 troops total largely ill-trained and inexperienced, while Israel committed approximately 100,000 troops (usually operating with interior lines of communication and included an estimated 20,000-25,000 European experienced WWII veterans).

Yes, this was quite the David and Goliath match up only not the one Zionist revisionist would have us believe.

Had the Palestinians accepted the offer at the time then I would agree that Israel had done wrong. But if I make you an offer and you spit in my face, I assume you're not interested and therefore I am justified in looking after my own interests, just as you will. 2 sides man.... there are 2 sides to this issue.
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