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and then

How Much Longer?

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It must really be exasperating to apparently hate anything or anyone so much and not be able to strike at it/them. Not to argue BJ but if you are correct and God does not recognize these evil usurpers...why do they win every war? Why do they exist against all odds stacked against them for millennia? That should give rise to a question in your mind but it doesn't and I think it's because your hatred and bias won't allow it. If your implication is that the current state of Israel is Babylon then... okay... time will tell I guess. If you are correct then someday maybe you will see Jerusalem over run by Muslim armies and the city sacked and pillaged. You can live in hope, I guess. Wow...

Save your anti-muslim rhetoric. And there are many reasons Israel won these wars, better trained and better equipped militias in '48 including the illegal smuggling of Czech and other Eastern Bloc nations WWII surplus, the pre-emptive strikes in 67 that annihilated all of the Arab air forces, Israel almost lost and would have lost in '73 save for Operation Nickel Grass, and in 1982 Lebanon War has been likened to the US's Vietnam War... Israel used cluster bombs and illegal munitions in that one, and relied on carpet bombing. Thousands of innocent Palestinian and Lebanese civilians died due to Israel's use of these weapons.

Read up on Plan Dalet.

Funny thing is only in the 1973 War, was Israel not the first to strike. They weren't the invaders in that one ALONE.

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Everything you say is true but I add one very important detail you and most here, leave out. This hatred that exists between Arab and Jew is generational. Many believe the Bible to be a book of fairy tales but it chronicles this hatred and the evidence of it is visible in our lives every day. Israel is a country of 8 million souls. Yet the whole darned WORLD seems to be offended by them. Most seem FAR less concerned with Assad's butchery in Syria or the radical Islamist tide rising in the M.E. It always gets back to Israel. I believe a day will come when the nations will allow an alliance to be formed for the purpose of destroying the Jewish state. Instead of simply discounting anything a Zionist might say, perhaps one could consider the oddity of the world being willing to risk a thermonuclear exchange just to see Israel removed? That is what will eventually happen if some accommodation is not made for Israel. The argument about land is a ruse. The Arab nations possess so much land they do not have the numbers to inhabit it properly but we are to believe that if Israel will only give up a little more of the precious small amount they have, then things will be fine and dandy. Land is not the issue. The existence in Palestine of a state of Jewish character is the issue. And I will add that the proof of this came when the Palestinians took Gaza and began using it as a base to make war on Israeli civilians. If Judea and Samaria are surrendered in a future "peace" deal the same will happen again and this time a general war will result that destabilizes the whole region.

The Bible also states the Ten Commandments, which include....

“You shall not murder."

“You shall not steal."

“You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.”

The Israel government and people have broken all of those above, as far as I am aware

They have murdered....... (Palestinian people etc)

They have stole....... (Palestinian land)

They have done and still do, covet Palestinian land.......

Does that sound like something The Most High God would want ?

What Assad is doing is WRONG and I think that every moral person is concerned with that, but this topic has got nothing to do with Syria or Assad, or has it ?

Who has said that they want to see the Jewish state or Israel removed ? As far as I am aware no one has, what I would like to see is Israel treating Palestinian people/everyone with respect, and treating them as Israel would like to be treated, only then will Israel be on the path to peace

Land is part of the issue, Israel taking land that belong's to Palestine and treating them (Palestinians) like criminals in/on their own land

AS You once said in another topic

"as he seems to be one of those who dismiss the evils of everyone except Israel."

That can and does work both ways

I also personally think that You, Yourself dismiss the evil's of Israel while seeing the evil's of everyone else, especially Israel's enemies.......

.

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and then,

“Before the end of the mandate and, therefore before any possible intervention by Arab states, the Jews, taking advantage of their superior military preparation and organization, had occupied...most of the Arab cities in Palestine before May 15, 1948. Tiberias was occupied on April 19, 1948, Haifa on April 22, Jaffa on April 28, the Arab quarters in the New City of Jerusalem on April 30, Beisan on May 8, Safad on May 10 and Acre on May 14, 1948...In contrast, the Palestine Arabs did not seize any of the territories reserved for the Jewish state under the partition resolution.” British author, Henry Cattan, “Palestine, The Arabs and Israel.”

After reconfirming some numbers, I want to further add that at the start of the 1948 Israeli-Arab war on May 15, the Arab coalition committed 25,000 troops total, the newly declared state of Israel committed 35,000 troops.

At the height of the war's escalation by October 14, the Arab coalition committed 55,000 troops total largely ill-trained and inexperienced, while Israel committed approximately 100,000 troops (usually operating with interior lines of communication and included an estimated 20,000-25,000 European experienced WWII veterans).

Yes, this was quite the David and Goliath match up only not the one Zionist revisionist would have us believe.

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and then,

“Before the end of the mandate and, therefore before any possible intervention by Arab states, the Jews, taking advantage of their superior military preparation and organization, had occupied...most of the Arab cities in Palestine before May 15, 1948. Tiberias was occupied on April 19, 1948, Haifa on April 22, Jaffa on April 28, the Arab quarters in the New City of Jerusalem on April 30, Beisan on May 8, Safad on May 10 and Acre on May 14, 1948...In contrast, the Palestine Arabs did not seize any of the territories reserved for the Jewish state under the partition resolution.” British author, Henry Cattan, “Palestine, The Arabs and Israel.”

After reconfirming some numbers, I want to further add that at the start of the 1948 Israeli-Arab war on May 15, the Arab coalition committed 25,000 troops total, the newly declared state of Israel committed 35,000 troops.

At the height of the war's escalation by October 14, the Arab coalition committed 55,000 troops total largely ill-trained and inexperienced, while Israel committed approximately 100,000 troops (usually operating with interior lines of communication and included an estimated 20,000-25,000 European experienced WWII veterans).

Yes, this was quite the David and Goliath match up only not the one Zionist revisionist would have us believe.

Had the Palestinians accepted the offer at the time then I would agree that Israel had done wrong. But if I make you an offer and you spit in my face, I assume you're not interested and therefore I am justified in looking after my own interests, just as you will. 2 sides man.... there are 2 sides to this issue.

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Had the Palestinians accepted the offer at the time then I would agree that Israel had done wrong. But if I make you an offer and you spit in my face, I assume you're not interested and therefore I am justified in looking after my own interests, just as you will. 2 sides man.... there are 2 sides to this issue.

.... what?

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.... what?

When the offer of 2 states living side by side was initially made, the Israelis JUMPED at the offer. The Arabs refused to have a Jewish state in their midst. Surely you can agree on this point? Once they had refused and made it clear that they intended to be rid of Israel no matter what, Israel naturally began doing what they truly wanted - seizing more land. My point, BJ, is consistent. There are two sides to this conflict. Israel is at fault but SO ARE the Palestinians. In 1948 there was no "occupation". You can blow smoke and inundate the unwitting here with tons of facts and figures but the essence of this conflict is simple hatred between 2 groups of people. Beating the Jews into submission is a task the Arabs are not equal to, so they use propaganda to elicit help from the world. Your words and arguments make it plain that you would support the eradication of the state of Israel. I take an exactly opposite view of the situation. While I would not condone the eradication of Palestinians, I WOULD support their resettlement into Jordan. I think that all of Gaza and Judea and Samaria is Israeli territory and I hope they regain it soon. When the war of annihilation against Israel occurs, it is going to badly boomerang on the Arabs. After that war there will cease to be a "Palestinian" problem.

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When the offer of 2 states living side by side was initially made, the Israelis JUMPED at the offer. The Arabs refused to have a Jewish state in their midst. Surely you can agree on this point? Once they had refused and made it clear that they intended to be rid of Israel no matter what, Israel naturally began doing what they truly wanted - seizing more land. My point, BJ, is consistent. There are two sides to this conflict. Israel is at fault but SO ARE the Palestinians. In 1948 there was no "occupation". You can blow smoke and inundate the unwitting here with tons of facts and figures but the essence of this conflict is simple hatred between 2 groups of people. Beating the Jews into submission is a task the Arabs are not equal to, so they use propaganda to elicit help from the world. Your words and arguments make it plain that you would support the eradication of the state of Israel. I take an exactly opposite view of the situation. While I would not condone the eradication of Palestinians, I WOULD support their resettlement into Jordan. I think that all of Gaza and Judea and Samaria is Israeli territory and I hope they regain it soon. When the war of annihilation against Israel occurs, it is going to badly boomerang on the Arabs. After that war there will cease to be a "Palestinian" problem.

Of course the Israelis would jump at the offer, they were an immigrant minority that only owned 6% of the land in Palestine!!!!!

Are you insane? Or do you think the Palestinians are insane and dumb enough to give 56% of their land to the Jews as accorded to the UN Partition Plan. That plan gave the Jews more land than the Palestinians yet at the time the Jews only legally bought and OWNED 6% of Palestine.

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If I may interupt this about Palestine. I don't seem to find any references in this thread about deeper causes, other than the obvious Jew against Muslim dispute. This business in modern times dates back further than 1947, and there is much responsibility to be laid on UK and France. The situation regards Palestine is mostly the child of the British, and I link here to this wiki about the Balfour Declaration

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration

The situation in Syria is the responsibility of UK and France, and I link to this wiki about the Sykes - Picot agreement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement

I believe that neither Jew nor Arab was well served by these machinations of UK and France, and they have, at one remove, a lot of blood on their hands. I rather suspect that these two countries handwringing and involvement,(also Libya) is perhaps a bad conscience about past actions. It rather makes me laugh when these two countries huff and puff about Russian (much weakening) support for Assad, when UK/France are the root cause of the problem as it has existed since WW1. Sometimes I think the destruction of the Ottoman Empire was a bad thing, and the disgraceful meddling in Persia (for oil), as it was, by UK/US was a disaster. Always a good thing to look at causes sometimes, then some introspection before jumping up and down and screaming about this that and the other in that part of the world. Lavrov has been calm and saying all this for long time, but everybody just gets red in the face and pointing fingers about Tartus, human rights, blah blah blah. rather like pointing out mote in somebodies eye while ignoring beam in their own.

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