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buckskin scout

Life In Occupied Palestine

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Highly enlightening and educating documentary. Covers alot of topics. Please enjoy!

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Great video B!

Bravo, she's a courageous,intelligent and beautiful woman who exposes the truth of the occupation!

An Israeli film maker's documentary with former Shin Bet chiefs reveals even more truths:

Film-maker captures Israeli spy chiefs' doubts over covert killing operations

Director rejects charge that Oscar-nominated secret services documentary is one-sided

By the time Dror Moreh had finished filming more than 70 hours of interviews with six former chiefs of Israel's shadowy Shin Bet secret service agency, the director knew he had "dynamite in my hands".

The result, The Gatekeepers, a 97-minute documentary which has just opened in the UK, is indeed explosive. The Oscar-nominated film has played to packed audiences in Israel, many of whom emerged stunned at what they had seen and heard.

"I thought if I could manage to get all [six] to speak openly about their experience in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, it will create a shockwave," Moreh told the Observer. "I was right – it created a huge storm."....

Read : http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/14/israeli-spy-chiefs-covert-film

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Great video B!

Bravo, she's a courageous,intelligent and beautiful woman who exposes the truth of the occupation!

An Israeli film maker's documentary with former Shin Bet chiefs reveals even more truths:

Film-maker captures Israeli spy chiefs' doubts over covert killing operations

Director rejects charge that Oscar-nominated secret services documentary is one-sided

By the time Dror Moreh had finished filming more than 70 hours of interviews with six former chiefs of Israel's shadowy Shin Bet secret service agency, the director knew he had "dynamite in my hands".

The result, The Gatekeepers, a 97-minute documentary which has just opened in the UK, is indeed explosive. The Oscar-nominated film has played to packed audiences in Israel, many of whom emerged stunned at what they had seen and heard.

"I thought if I could manage to get all [six] to speak openly about their experience in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, it will create a shockwave," Moreh told the Observer. "I was right – it created a huge storm."....

Read : http://www.guardian....efs-covert-film

You seem surprised that these men would suffer doubt or angst about their behavior in service of a state at war. Any rational, moral human being would be grieved over a long term necessity of "keeping people down" as you might express it. Injustice thrives in such an atmosphere to be sure. Yet the alternative is to attempt to live alongside a people who genuinely want your eradication. My question is why there is no equivalent documentary of Palestinians who feel tortured for their behavior against Jews, or did I miss that one?

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Thank you B.Jenkins :tu:

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My question is why there is no equivalent documentary of Palestinians who feel tortured for their behavior against Jews, or did I miss that one?

You mean documentaries that brand victims of collective punishment as monsters, criminals and terrorists?

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You mean documentaries that brand victims of collective punishment as monsters, criminals and terrorists?

Nope, I mean actual examples of regret on the part of groups who celebrate the murder of innocents, including 14 month old babies by throat slitting. That is, Palestinian "freedom fighters". If you are going to cry me a river for the horrors the Palestinians endure, save the effort. I live in a real world where there is more than a single side in arguments. A world where there is more that is evil than Israel and Jews alone.

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Nope, I mean actual examples of regret on the part of groups who celebrate the murder of innocents, including 14 month old babies by throat slitting. That is, Palestinian "freedom fighters". If you are going to cry me a river for the horrors the Palestinians endure, save the effort. I live in a real world where there is more than a single side in arguments. A world where there is more that is evil than Israel and Jews alone.

A throat slitter you refer to without citation is no excuse to take away everyone's liberty. Your world view is severely oversimplified the way you pick cherries and blame entire groups of humans who had nothing to do with it. If every evil Israeli bureaucrat was another excuse for collective punishment upon all Israelis, then at least your logic would be consistent. Of course you won't eat that cooking. That's only for the Palestinians.

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Posted (edited)

Nope, I mean actual examples of regret on the part of groups who celebrate the murder of innocents, including 14 month old babies by throat slitting. That is, Palestinian "freedom fighters". If you are going to cry me a river for the horrors the Palestinians endure, save the effort. I live in a real world where there is more than a single side in arguments. A world where there is more that is evil than Israel and Jews alone.

I dont think anybody in the right mind would celebrate the murder of innocent's, and least of all a baby, doesnt matter how old they are, or even what nationality they are

The horrors the Palestinian people endure, should concern You, as it is due to those horror's why they retaliate, and while those horrors are happeneing there can never be any peace between Israel and Palestine

You do not live in the real world, You admitted to being a "Zionist and am biased for the state of Israel" (which in my opinion is blurring Your vision)... I am not trying to belittle You or anything, just trying to make You see something that is blatantly obvious

Which is why should Palestine be peaceful with Israel when Israel is doing horrendous thing's, I know for a fact, if someone was was beating ten tonne of **** out of me I would give them as good as what I got in return

There is good and bad on both the Israeli and Palestinian side's, not one of them is perfect, same can be said for all other countries

Edited by Jackofalltrades
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I dont think anybody in the right mind would celebrate the murder of innocent's, and least of all a baby, doesnt matter how old they are, or even what nationality they are

The horrors the Palestinian people endure, should concern You, as it is due to those horror's why they retaliate, and while those horrors are happeneing there can never be any peace between Israel and Palestine

You do not live in the real world, You admitted to being a "Zionist and am biased for the state of Israel" (which in my opinion is blurring Your vision)... I am not trying to belittle You or anything, just trying to make You see something that is blatantly obvious

Which is why should Palestine be peaceful with Israel when Israel is doing horrendous thing's, I know for a fact, if someone was was beating ten tonne of **** out of me I would give them as good as what I got in return

There is good and bad on both the Israeli and Palestinian side's, not one of them is perfect, same can be said for all other countries

I haven't said otherwise. On the contrary, it is many others here who focus exclusively on the wrongs committed by Israel while completely absolving any action of the Palestinians as justified. One does not need to be biased to see that. And finally, there were large numbers of Palestinians who DID celebrate the Fogel murders. My comments were in answer to XingWi's post and I feel it was the correct response as he seems to be one of those who dismiss the evils of everyone except Israel. My only goal is to achieve some balance and not allow a steady drum beat of unbalanced anti Israel propaganda here.

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I haven't said otherwise. On the contrary, it is many others here who focus exclusively on the wrongs committed by Israel while completely absolving any action of the Palestinians as justified. One does not need to be biased to see that. And finally, there were large numbers of Palestinians who DID celebrate the Fogel murders. My comments were in answer to XingWi's post and I feel it was the correct response as he seems to be one of those who dismiss the evils of everyone except Israel. My only goal is to achieve some balance and not allow a steady drum beat of unbalanced anti Israel propaganda here.

Just curious...

Do you ever re-read what you wrote?

It is extremely bias to the extreme. An extremist point of view.

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Just curious...

Do you ever re-read what you wrote?

It is extremely bias to the extreme. An extremist point of view.

AH you're losing it these days. Why so personal, man? We've had our disagreements before but never so vicious. What's up?

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AH you're losing it these days. Why so personal, man? We've had our disagreements before but never so vicious. What's up?

ha... you're trying to butter me up.... won't work bro.

I've always called you on your self-proclaimed extreme christian-zionist point of view. You know I find it collectively destructive.

Let's not kid yourself. The archive is proof.

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ha... you're trying to butter me up.... won't work bro.

I've always called you on your self-proclaimed extreme christian-zionist point of view. You know I find it collectively destructive.

Let's not kid yourself. The archive is proof.

As I said, we've had our disagreements - in fact, MOST of the time but you never got 'round to being vicious, so what set you off? And if someone was going off on you in this way, how would YOU like it? It's rude, it's, to use your words "extreme" and it's uncalled for. The fact that my being a Christian Zionist makes you sick is immaterial to me. You don't understand that while it is a vile label to you, I actually wear it with pride and it has nothing at all to do with the hatred you attach to it. That seems to be your biggest flaw - you cannot conceive of being wrong about anything in your world view. Must be a grand life.

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I haven't said otherwise. On the contrary, it is many others here who focus exclusively on the wrongs committed by Israel while completely absolving any action of the Palestinians as justified. One does not need to be biased to see that. And finally, there were large numbers of Palestinians who DID celebrate the Fogel murders. My comments were in answer to XingWi's post and I feel it was the correct response as he seems to be one of those who dismiss the evils of everyone except Israel. My only goal is to achieve some balance and not allow a steady drum beat of unbalanced anti Israel propaganda here.

None are justified but how can you compare? How can you compare the horrors conducted by representatives of a Govt which claims to be a bastion of civilised democracy, against a bunch of local radicals (one was even arrested previously by the Palestinian Authority) angered by the constant intrusion of settlers on their land?

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None are justified but how can you compare? How can you compare the horrors conducted by representatives of a Govt which claims to be a bastion of civilised democracy, against a bunch of local radicals (one was even arrested previously by the Palestinian Authority) angered by the constant intrusion of settlers on their land?

Hadas Fogel was 3 months old. They SLIT HIS THROAT. Like he was a goat or something. And they did that because he was a Jew. Deny it all you like but this is the bottom line in this conflict. Both sides want the land, both feel justified doing anything to keep it and one side has nukes. They will never just magically disappear and neither will the Palestinians. Both sides have done wrong and choosing one as being faultless because they are weaker is illogical. It's like a statement I heard in a race relations conference - a black person cannot be racist because they have no power....

If Obama and the Arab League have their way you will see Israel give up a sizable piece of the west bank and then after an indecently short interlude you'll see the rockets and mortars begin again. Will they still be justified? Is their ANYTHING the Palestinians might do that would not be justified?

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Posted (edited)

Hadas Fogel was 3 months old. They SLIT HIS THROAT. Like he was a goat or something. And they did that because he was a Jew. Deny it all you like but this is the bottom line in this conflict. Both sides want the land, both feel justified doing anything to keep it and one side has nukes. They will never just magically disappear and neither will the Palestinians. Both sides have done wrong and choosing one as being faultless because they are weaker is illogical. It's like a statement I heard in a race relations conference - a black person cannot be racist because they have no power....

If Obama and the Arab League have their way you will see Israel give up a sizable piece of the west bank and then after an indecently short interlude you'll see the rockets and mortars begin again. Will they still be justified? Is their ANYTHING the Palestinians might do that would not be justified?

I repeat. Your comparison makes no sense. The Palestinian criminals don't represent the elected Govt. In fact, I even pointed out that one was arrested. Instead, Mossad IS Govt.

Israel NEEDS to drop their Zionistic ideals of a greater Israel and GIVE UP Palestinian land (the west bank) and p..ss off the settlers. No ifs or buts. That's the only way forward towards peace. If rockets start after peace agreements are made then the onus would be back on the Palestinians.

But c'mon tell the truth, Zion doesn't want the Peace, at least not Peace without the land. True?

Edited by Black Red Devil
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And besides, if God wants Israel to have that land, God will ensure it ends up in their hands. Theft, even in the name of God, is IIRC against one of the Commandments.

If Israel said "right, these are our borders" and drew a line across the West Bank leaving the borders are they are right now, everything that happens after that is Palestinian aggression not Israeli aggravation. It'll be the fault entirely and only of one group, not something that's tit-for-tat escalating time and again.

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And besides, if God wants Israel to have that land, God will ensure it ends up in their hands. Theft, even in the name of God, is IIRC against one of the Commandments.

If Israel said "right, these are our borders" and drew a line across the West Bank leaving the borders are they are right now, everything that happens after that is Palestinian aggression not Israeli aggravation. It'll be the fault entirely and only of one group, not something that's tit-for-tat escalating time and again.

Following this train of thought, I will add in further argument against Christian Zionism:

When God gave Israel that land it was completely conditional (see Deuteronomy 28) and he had already fulfilled that promise (see Joshua 21:43-45). And God already regathered Israel upon their return to the land after the Babylonian captivity. God fulfilled all of these promises to Israel ALREADY.

Israel is OBLIGATED to Deuteronomy 28. There's no "ands", "ifs", or "buts" about it.

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Following this train of thought, I will add in further argument against Christian Zionism:

When God gave Israel that land it was completely conditional (see Deuteronomy 28) and he had already fulfilled that promise (see Joshua 21:43-45). And God already regathered Israel upon their return to the land after the Babylonian captivity. God fulfilled all of these promises to Israel ALREADY.

Israel is OBLIGATED to Deuteronomy 28. There's no "ands", "ifs", or "buts" about it.

Awww but that scripture is not convenient for them right now! Religious texts are for cherry picking, and surely there is something more supportive of their policies than that!

You're using Judaism against Zionism. Spanky! I suppose anyone who would dare to do such a thing could get branded "anti-Semitic", or worse, "self-hating Jewish". Just be careful you don't accidentally "deny the Holocaust", or "wipe off" any "maps". Basically, the easy things to remember when dealing with media-fed Zionists.

Zionist Jews believe that Israel must be first in the world in the minds of all Jewry. Jewish TV discusses at great length the indoctrination of young Jews around the world into supporting Israel and making sure young people identify favorably with Zionism. Jews living outside of Israel who have never traveled to Israel or otherwise shown any support for it are talked about as if they're a lower class of Jewish. Especially compared to the true friends of Israel who donate and/or visit frequently.

I think that Zionists don't believe in what they owe to God, they only believe in what God owes them.

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Thanks for the thread b jenkins

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I repeat. Your comparison makes no sense. The Palestinian criminals don't represent the elected Govt. In fact, I even pointed out that one was arrested. Instead, Mossad IS Govt.

Israel NEEDS to drop their Zionistic ideals of a greater Israel and GIVE UP Palestinian land (the west bank) and p..ss off the settlers. No ifs or buts. That's the only way forward towards peace. If rockets start after peace agreements are made then the onus would be back on the Palestinians.

But c'mon tell the truth, Zion doesn't want the Peace, at least not Peace without the land. True?

And the Palestinians do? Lots of ifs here but the problem with that is that Israel already HAS given up land and removed settlements -remember Gaza? The blockade began AFTER the rockets started falling. The walls were built AFTER the intifada. Torture the history of the conflict any way you like but the truth of the matter is that the Palestinians have given Israel justification for every act. They never have conceded the right of Israel to be a Jewish homeland. They never will. The world will continue to be willing dupes and the Pali PR will eventually lead to a major war in the M.E. It amazes me that people look past this concept. I read somewhere once that "a wise man observes danger and prepares while the simple continue on and suffer".

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One does not need to be biased to see that.

My comments were in answer to XingWi's post and I feel it was the correct response as he seems to be one of those who dismiss the evils of everyone except Israel.

For someone that claims to be "unbiased", you are very quick to label everyone that disagrees with you or does not accept your point of view as "biased" or "propagandist" or "anti-Semitic". I'm seeing a peculiar pattern in your responses. You rely heavily on straw man fallacies. Even if someone presents an unbiased view, you accuse him of being biased and then attack him. And if someone points out the extremism in your arguments you accuse him of personal attacks. Although Black Red Devil said: "None are justified?", you responded by saying: "Is their ANYTHING the Palestinians might do that would not be justified?" - a straw man argument. Similar is your response to acidhead. I posed a simple question, and even mentioned "collective punishment" which indicates a little responsibility on the Palestinians too, but it does not seem to you two-sided enough and I'm already a "jew-hater" ?!?

Nope, I mean actual examples of regret on the part of groups who celebrate the murder of innocents, including 14 month old babies by throat slitting. That is, Palestinian "freedom fighters".

While there have been some Israeli civilian deaths at the hands of Palestinian freedom fighters, no doubt about that, but the loss suffered by Palestinians at the hands of IOF and settlers is far greater, several thousand times more. There is no comparison between the two.

As for your example of killing that child, I don't believe they did it on purpose. Maybe they attacked the settlers on purpose and the death of the baby was collateral damage. And unless you were yourself there with them at that time, you cannot claim to know for sure what exactly happened. I'm not endorsing the attacks on children but it's hard for me to believe that a group that is driven by their belief in afterlife and hopes to meet God would commit such an act on purpose especially when their religion expressly prohibits killing of women and children even in war.

However, for arguments sake lets assume they killed that child, but how can you equate that with thousands of Palestinian children deliberately killed by IOF, or who died in extreme conditions due to the blockade? How can you equate that with Israeli endorsement of extremist rabbis that provoke Israelis to kill gentile babies?

1. Rabbi permits even the murder of gentile babies and children

2. Who is funding the rabbi who endorses killing gentile babies?

If you are going to cry me a river for the horrors the Palestinians endure, save the effort.

Is it wrong to have the feeling of commiseration that differentiates humans from animals? Is it wrong to feel the pain of the suffering of our brothers and sisters in humanity? Is it wrong to express that pain? The way you are mocking humans' expression of sympathy for other humans indicates nothing but insensitivity and sadism on your part.

I live in a real world where there is more than a single side in arguments. A world where there is more that is evil than Israel and Jews alone.

Yeah, you live in a "real" world where straw man arguments and a myriad of other logical fallacies do not exist, and everyone that disagrees with you is a Jew-hater and an anti-Semitic.

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Posted (edited)

The fact that my being a Christian Zionist makes you sick is immaterial to me. You don't understand that while it is a vile label to you, I actually wear it with pride

You wear this "Zionist" label with pride, a label that is being increasingly discarded by the Jews themselves because they are ashamed of wearing it ?!?

True Torah Jews against zionism

______________________________

Jews United Against Zionism, United Nations, January 4, 2009

Jews United Against Zionism

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESkTi_91WY4

Edited by XingWi
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Posted (edited)

....continued

Orthodox Jews protest against Zionism

Israel Shouldn't Exist Says Rabbi Weiss

[media=]

Edited by XingWi
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