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buckskin scout

Life In Occupied Palestine

106 posts in this topic

....continued

Orthodox Jews protest against Zionism

Israel Shouldn't Exist Says Rabbi Weiss

[media=]

8 million Israelis disagree :tu:

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Posted (edited)

And the Palestinians do? Lots of ifs here but the problem with that is that Israel already HAS given up land and removed settlements -remember Gaza? The blockade began AFTER the rockets started falling. The walls were built AFTER the intifada. Torture the history of the conflict any way you like but the truth of the matter is that the Palestinians have given Israel justification for every act. They never have conceded the right of Israel to be a Jewish homeland. They never will. The world will continue to be willing dupes and the Pali PR will eventually lead to a major war in the M.E. It amazes me that people look past this concept. I read somewhere once that "a wise man observes danger and prepares while the simple continue on and suffer".

So I grab my next door neighbors whole property and then decide to give him back the toilet and that's supposed to please him? Also, the PA have recognised Israel as a legitimate State, for your information.

Israel has no Right to totally blockade Palestinians and they have no justification in oppressing other people, specially on their own homeland. That's not me talking, it's most of the world leaders, the UN and Human Right Organisations.

Edited by Black Red Devil
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So I grab my next door neighbors whole property and then decide to give him back the toilet and that's supposed to please him? Also, the PA have recognised Israel as a legitimate State, for your information.

Israel has no Right to totally blockade Palestinians and they have no justification in oppressing other people, specially on their own homeland. That's not me talking, it's most of the world leaders, the UN and Human Right Organisations.

Indeed they have. A state that can be inhabited by an unlimited number of Palestinians. IOW another Arab state. Israel's request is to be recognized as the state of the JEWISH people. No Arab state has or probably ever will recognize this. RD you are far from being a simpleton. How is it that you cannot understand or accept that this state, REGARDLESS world opinion, IS going to remain in Palestine? Only irrational people will continue to hope that Israel is just going to decide to disappear some day. And I also ask you, can you not be honest with yourself about the end game the Palestinians have openly declared for decades? Are we not to accept them at their word? Even when they actively until this day still teach vehement hatred against all Jews? What is the disconnect? If the Palestinians were willing to accept some compromise - to include making that simple declaration I mentioned - then Israel would be FORCED to come to the table and make peace. But the Palis will not do it. Do you deny this?

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For someone that claims to be "unbiased", you are very quick to label everyone that disagrees with you or does not accept your point of view as "biased" or "propagandist" or "anti-Semitic". I'm seeing a peculiar pattern in your responses. You rely heavily on straw man fallacies. Even if someone presents an unbiased view, you accuse him of being biased and then attack him. And if someone points out the extremism in your arguments you accuse him of personal attacks. Although Black Red Devil said: "None are justified?", you responded by saying: "Is their ANYTHING the Palestinians might do that would not be justified?" - a straw man argument. Similar is your response to acidhead. I posed a simple question, and even mentioned "collective punishment" which indicates a little responsibility on the Palestinians too, but it does not seem to you two-sided enough and I'm already a "jew-hater" ?!?

While there have been some Israeli civilian deaths at the hands of Palestinian freedom fighters, no doubt about that, but the loss suffered by Palestinians at the hands of IOF and settlers is far greater, several thousand times more. There is no comparison between the two.

As for your example of killing that child, I don't believe they did it on purpose. Maybe they attacked the settlers on purpose and the death of the baby was collateral damage. And unless you were yourself there with them at that time, you cannot claim to know for sure what exactly happened. I'm not endorsing the attacks on children but it's hard for me to believe that a group that is driven by their belief in afterlife and hopes to meet God would commit such an act on purpose especially when their religion expressly prohibits killing of women and children even in war.

However, for arguments sake lets assume they killed that child, but how can you equate that with thousands of Palestinian children deliberately killed by IOF, or who died in extreme conditions due to the blockade? How can you equate that with Israeli endorsement of extremist rabbis that provoke Israelis to kill gentile babies?

1. Rabbi permits even the murder of gentile babies and children

2. Who is funding the rabbi who endorses killing gentile babies?

Is it wrong to have the feeling of commiseration that differentiates humans from animals? Is it wrong to feel the pain of the suffering of our brothers and sisters in humanity? Is it wrong to express that pain? The way you are mocking humans' expression of sympathy for other humans indicates nothing but insensitivity and sadism on your part.

Yeah, you live in a "real" world where straw man arguments and a myriad of other logical fallacies do not exist, and everyone that disagrees with you is a Jew-hater and an anti-Semitic.

So I'm an insensitive, inhuman sadist? Wow, quite a diagnosis gleaned from a few posts on a forum :w00t:Christian Zionists are simply individuals who believe that the modern state of Israel is a fulfillment of Bible prophecy. We fully support the Jewish people and believe they have an inherent right to the land they are currently inhabiting, along with quite a bit more actually. For those here who support the Palestinian cause they find CZ's hateful and offensive - I get that and have no problem with it any longer. I am content to be judged by my Creator for my beliefs and expect everyone else to face the same level of scrutiny. Slashing the throat of a 3 month old child is singularly horrific and to say that it in some way can be overlooked because of the killing of Palestinian children speaks volumes. You are welcome to any opinion of me you choose to have. Matters not a bit. The real story of Israel/Palestinian is the role it will play as the spark that starts WWIII. Hopefully the hatred of the evildoers in Israel will be sufficient to get you through the tough times ahead. Times that might be avoided if people were simply willing to allow Israel to exist as a Jewish state. Have you ever considered that Xing? That all they really want is a state that is Jewish? Is denying them this worth a global conflagration some day?

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I seem to recall the "build a Jewish State" brigade were offered land in a couple of other countries - including America - but instead chose to take land from someone else.

Now, I believe in God. I believe His plans will come about when He is ready for them to be and there's not a dickybird man can do about it. Obviously Biblical Israel's time has not yet come because the world isn't ready for it.

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So I'm an insensitive, inhuman sadist? Wow, quite a diagnosis gleaned from a few posts on a forum :w00t:Christian Zionists are simply individuals who believe that the modern state of Israel is a fulfillment of Bible prophecy. We fully support the Jewish people and believe they have an inherent right to the land they are currently inhabiting, along with quite a bit more actually. For those here who support the Palestinian cause they find CZ's hateful and offensive - I get that and have no problem with it any longer. I am content to be judged by my Creator for my beliefs and expect everyone else to face the same level of scrutiny. Slashing the throat of a 3 month old child is singularly horrific and to say that it in some way can be overlooked because of the killing of Palestinian children speaks volumes. You are welcome to any opinion of me you choose to have. Matters not a bit. The real story of Israel/Palestinian is the role it will play as the spark that starts WWIII. Hopefully the hatred of the evildoers in Israel will be sufficient to get you through the tough times ahead. Times that might be avoided if people were simply willing to allow Israel to exist as a Jewish state. Have you ever considered that Xing? That all they really want is a state that is Jewish? Is denying them this worth a global conflagration some day?

Please reread Deuteronomy Chapter 28. Inherent right?

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Posted (edited)

I seem to recall the "build a Jewish State" brigade were offered land in a couple of other countries - including America - but instead chose to take land from someone else.

Now, I believe in God. I believe His plans will come about when He is ready for them to be and there's not a dickybird man can do about it. Obviously Biblical Israel's time has not yet come because the world isn't ready for it.

I respect your opinion greatly WoH. I have read and concurred with much you've had to say in the time I've been at UM. We simply disagree on this one but I am curious, first, do you believe the Palestinians as they are currently led, would keep a peace agreement with Israel long term? And second, do you feel that the level of hatred against the Jewish state is justified? I don't mean, do you think Israel is wrong, I assume you do. What I'm asking is does it seem rational to you that the world would actually risk nuclear war to foil Israel's attempt to be a Jewish state? This is the main issue that I cannot reconcile. It is a state of 8 million souls. Out of 7 billion on the planet. Yes, it has nukes, but they have never been used for anything except defense - just as every other nuclear power to date. I firmly believe Israel, in this incarnation, IS the prophesied in-gathering of God's people and all the predictions about that group will be fulfilled in modern Israel.

edited to add that thy chose "other's" land because they have a strong and undeniable connection to that soil. Archaeology proves it even if the other historical references are discounted.

Edited by and then

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Please reread Deuteronomy Chapter 28. Inherent right?

BJ please stop flogging me with your Bible verses. I am not amenable to persuasion on this and frankly...you bore me. I GET that you disbelieve Israel is legitimate. I simply disagree. Believe it or not, it's actually okay for people to have different minds on a subject. Have a nice day man :)

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Posted (edited)

I respect your opinion greatly WoH. I have read and concurred with much you've had to say in the time I've been at UM. We simply disagree on this one but I am curious, first, do you believe the Palestinians as they are currently led, would keep a peace agreement with Israel long term?

Depends.

Probably not actually, but importantly that would mean Israel would be attacked without provocation, they'd be a victim in the eyes of the global community a peacemaker that's been viciously attacked by someone they're trying to get along with. It'd put support entirely behind the Israelis for once, and basically tar the Palestinians are the villains. It might actually force a detente if the Palestinians don't want to lose their "we're the victims" card.

God's people burnt for being peacemakers. It's oddly appropriate really.

And second, do you feel that the level of hatred against the Jewish state is justified?

From what quarter? Internationally? I don't see "hate" I see "condemnation of broken laws/rules of engagement/agreements". I see people saying "that's not cricket" about what the people in charge of the Jewish state are doing.

Individually? Now I DO see people heaping hate on Israel. I also see individuals defending it, offering a balanced view, offering an imbalanced view and so on.

From Palestine? Well that's a tide of hate. Indoctrinated hate. And as I think all hate is unjustified, it's unjustified hate. However, I do see that there are reasons for the Palestinians to want to defy the Israelis with their last breathes.

I don't mean, do you think Israel is wrong, I assume you do.

I think it's neither wrong nor right. I think it's been making decisions that make the situation worse, that are in violation of international law, in violation of agreements it made in good faith and are frankly the sort of thing we'd not be surprised to see out of place in a war film coming from the Nazis. But then, as with the Palestinians, those actions could very easily have been justified.

What I'm asking is does it seem rational to you that the world would actually risk nuclear war to foil Israel's attempt to be a Jewish state?

I don't understand what you mean here, sorry.

I firmly believe Israel, in this incarnation, IS the prophesied in-gathering of God's people and all the predictions about that group will be fulfilled in modern Israel.

And I'm undecided. I'm happy to let God's plan work at God's pace and stand four-score and true behind my beliefs and be damned or praised for that position.

But IMO an Israel born of fire and hate isn't worth the name "God's Chosen". Not the Christian one, and not the one that exiled the Jews in the first place because of their warmongering.

Edited by Wearer of Hats
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Posted (edited)

Indeed they have. A state that can be inhabited by an unlimited number of Palestinians. IOW another Arab state. Israel's request is to be recognized as the state of the JEWISH people. No Arab state has or probably ever will recognize this. RD you are far from being a simpleton. How is it that you cannot understand or accept that this state, REGARDLESS world opinion, IS going to remain in Palestine? Only irrational people will continue to hope that Israel is just going to decide to disappear some day. And I also ask you, can you not be honest with yourself about the end game the Palestinians have openly declared for decades? Are we not to accept them at their word? Even when they actively until this day still teach vehement hatred against all Jews? What is the disconnect? If the Palestinians were willing to accept some compromise - to include making that simple declaration I mentioned - then Israel would be FORCED to come to the table and make peace. But the Palis will not do it. Do you deny this?

Back to the history lessons. The peace process between Arabs and Jews has been ongoing before Israel even existed. The most "popular" solution is the two "state solution". I put "popular" in inverted commas because either one side or the other have rejected the solution over a number of years but it is the most popular option compared to 1) a one state solution (Jews and Arabs living in a Federation type State) or 2) the current situation. The two State solution keeps people like yourself happy because there would be a Jewish State alongside a separate Palestinian State.

The biggest dispute and reason there has been no progress to this solution is that Netanyahu doesn't accept the right of return of descendants of Palestinian refugees who were forced off their land by Jews when the British partitioned what is now the State of Israel in 1948. More refugees followed in later years. There is a lot more to it but anyway, this is it in a nutshell.

This is one of the reasons you find people accusing Israel of being a Zionist and an apartheid State and your post fits perfectly with these ideals because this would mean the return of millions of Arabs.

This is also the main reason currently there is no progress for a peace solution, because Israel's Zionists don't want to give up what doesn't belong to them.

Most people these days see the injustice, oppression and discrimination (world leaders, UN & HM groups) Palestinians suffer. Most people see the biased preferences Israel gets. Most people see straight through Israel's policies and agenda. It really doesn't take a genius in this day and age with so much technology, internet etc.. I'm pretty sure you see all this to, but you can't help but follow your faith. Well, if this is the God you blindly believe in and follow, and part of his master plan allows this unfairness, man you can have him.

Edited by Black Red Devil
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Back to the history lessons. The peace process between Arabs and Jews has been ongoing before Israel even existed. The most "popular" solution is the two "state solution". I put "popular" in inverted commas because either one side or the other have rejected the solution over a number of years but it is the most popular option compared to 1) a one state solution (Jews and Arabs living in a Federation type State) or 2) the current situation. The two State solution keeps people like yourself happy because there would be a Jewish State alongside a separate Palestinian State.

The biggest dispute and reason there has been no progress to this solution is that Netanyahu doesn't accept the right of return of descendants of Palestinian refugees who were forced off their land by Jews when the British partitioned what is now the State of Israel in 1948. More refugees followed in later years. There is a lot more to it but anyway, this is it in a nutshell.

This is one of the reasons you find people accusing Israel of being a Zionist and an apartheid State and your post fits perfectly with these ideals because this would mean the return of millions of Arabs.

This is also the main reason currently there is no progress for a peace solution, because Israel's Zionists don't want to give up what doesn't belong to them.

Most people these days see the injustice, oppression and discrimination (world leaders, UN & HM groups) Palestinians suffer. Most people see the biased preferences Israel gets. Most people see straight through Israel's policies and agenda. It really doesn't take a genius in this day and age with so much technology, internet etc.. I'm pretty sure you see all this to, but you can't help but follow your faith. Well, if this is the God you blindly believe in and follow, and part of his master plan allows this unfairness, man you can have him.

How is this an answer to the simple question I posed? Did you actually read the question? Instead of answering you defend the position you hold. Again, I GET that you feel Israel is illegitimate. I don't agree but I understand the points you make. Despite all the energy directed toward eradicating them from that land, it simply isn't ever going to happen though. No need to accept my faith on that point - it should be abundantly clear from anyone's view that a nuclear armed state isn't going to just be destroyed without firing a shot. UNLESS that state can be coerced into allowing itself to be demographically invaded and taken over from within. And to use your idea - if THAT is the justice you seek then you can keep it, I'm having none, thanks.

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Posted (edited)

How is this an answer to the simple question I posed? Did you actually read the question? Instead of answering you defend the position you hold. Again, I GET that you feel Israel is illegitimate. I don't agree but I understand the points you make. Despite all the energy directed toward eradicating them from that land, it simply isn't ever going to happen though. No need to accept my faith on that point - it should be abundantly clear from anyone's view that a nuclear armed state isn't going to just be destroyed without firing a shot. UNLESS that state can be coerced into allowing itself to be demographically invaded and taken over from within. And to use your idea - if THAT is the justice you seek then you can keep it, I'm having none, thanks.

LOL. I'm not sure who is going off the rails here. I'm pointing out recent history where there has been a number of attempts to progress a two State solution peace agreement, which was in response to your allegations suggesting everybody wants Israel to disappear and that Palestinians aren't prepared to compromise unless they get all the land.

I've explained to you what the two State Solution entails and the reason it hasn't progressed is because of ISRAEL (or rather Netanyahu, Israel's elected head of state, if you wish). I also pointed out in a previous post that the PA has recognised Israel. I get the impression you're just arguing because you don't want to concede that "your" Zionist friends are the ones to blame in this mess.

Another interesting rationale you have. You keep on suggesting that Israel will go down by firing nukes all over the place if anyone dares to eradicate them from their current land. That's a great thought!! The US and their puppets (including the UN) have allowed this country to build nukes without UN authorisation and, according to your logic, they will use them before they concede an inch of land they previously stole from another population (with the help of the British, the US and the UN) which they wont compromise with or have any intent whatsover in finding a bilateral solution for peace. Despite what your scriptures say and what you believe, I truly doubt the world will ever allow this to happen but I have to say, North Korea and Iran sound like nirvana compared to your Israel. Yet these two nations are sanctioned while Israel isn't and has never been. Go figure.... :P

Edited by Black Red Devil
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LOL. I'm not sure who is going off the rails here. I'm pointing out recent history where there has been a number of attempts to progress a two State solution peace agreement, which was in response to your allegations suggesting everybody wants Israel to disappear and that Palestinians aren't prepared to compromise unless they get all the land.

I've explained to you what the two State Solution entails and the reason it hasn't progressed is because of ISRAEL (or rather Netanyahu, Israel's elected head of state, if you wish). I also pointed out in a previous post that the PA has recognised Israel. I get the impression you're just arguing because you don't want to concede that "your" Zionist friends are the ones to blame in this mess.

Another interesting rationale you have. You keep on suggesting that Israel will go down by firing nukes all over the place if anyone dares to eradicate them from their current land. That's a great thought!! The US and their puppets (including the UN) have allowed this country to build nukes without UN authorisation and, according to your logic, they will use them before they concede an inch of land they previously stole from another population (with the help of the British, the US and the UN) which they wont compromise with or have any intent whatsover in finding a bilateral solution for peace. Despite what your scriptures say and what you believe, I truly doubt the world will ever allow this to happen but I have to say, North Korea and Iran sound like nirvana compared to your Israel. Yet these two nations are sanctioned while Israel isn't and has never been. Go figure.... :P

In these "number of attempts" who exactly has refused to come to the table? What, exactly, have the Palestinians been asked to do and what have they offered in return? The fallacy of thinking is easily cleared when you explain those two elements. If you are honest you have to admit that he Palis have given nothing. You will have to admit that only Israel is expected to relent and to give. Always. And for their willingness to surrender land that they also feel is theirs they cannot even gain a public statement by a Palestinian leader that Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people. And you feel this is fair and just because you apparently believe Israel to be wholly illegitimate and to have no right to anything except being shown the highway... does that about sum it up? Or is their some other way you'd like to parse that inconvenient truth?

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Posted (edited)

BJ please stop flogging me with your Bible verses. I am not amenable to persuasion on this and frankly...you bore me. I GET that you disbelieve Israel is legitimate. I simply disagree. Believe it or not, it's actually okay for people to have different minds on a subject. Have a nice day man :)

But it is the Bible that is foundation of your pro-Zionist beliefs isnt it?

You even attempted to state that Israel was under some divine providence for its series of victories in conflict. But lets take a more rational and grounded look at these conflicts...

The Israeli-Arab War 1948, was a contest that pitted an estimated 100,000 Jews well trained (a quarter of them were European WWII veterans) and well equipped via illegally smuggled black market Czech smuggled arms, artillery, armor, and munitions against an estimated 55,000 ill-trained and ill-equipped Arab coalition forces.

The Suez War 1956, Egypt nationalized the Suez Canal with the building of the Aswan Dam. A coalition of Anglo-French and Israeli forces invaded Egypt. On October 31st, an armada of 200 British and French fighter-bombers destroyed 95% of the Egyptian Air Force on the ground. In the event of any Egyptian planes survived the blitz and attempt retaliation, the French air force would protect the cities of Israel and French warships would protect the Israeli coastlines. President Nasser withdrew his soldiers from the Sinai in order to concentrate his defenses against an Anglo-French invasion of Alexandria and Cairo. This enabled Israel to capture whole parts of the Sinai. On November 2, the UN General Assembly voted 64-5 for an immediate cease-fire and withdrawal of all occupying forces from Egypt. Israel refused because they had not yet completed their sweep of the Sinai. But by November 4, Israel completed the capture of the southern tip of the Sinai Peninsula and the Strait of Tiran. Israel only accepted the cease fire AFTER its capture of the Sinai. The UN branded Israel, Britain, and France as aggressors and concentrated its efforts to get Britain and France evicted from Egypt. December 22, all British and French troops left Egypt.

The Six Day War 1967, Israel pre-emptively annihilated Arab air forces. Took Gaza and Sinai from Egypt, West Bank and Jerusalem from Jordan, and Golan Heights from Syria.

The Yom Kippur War 1973, the Arabs had Israel on the ropes, but were saved by a massive US airlift campaign called "Operation Nickel Grass".

The Lebanon War 1982, Israel invaded southern Lebanon with 80,000 troops, 1,240 tanks, and 1,520 apcs. Israel experienced its very own Vietnam with the unconventional street-fighting that ensued. Never the less, Israel had virtually uncontested control of the air, and had overwhelming military superiority on land and sea. Beirut was besieged and subjected to merciless bombing for two months. Israel relied overwhelmingly on U.S.-supplied planes, bombs and other military equipment. But despite existing laws mandating that U.S. military supplies be used only for defensive purposes, no one in Washington complained. Hospitals were hit and Palestinian refugee camps were levelled by the heavy bombardments. This war costs the lives of an estimated 20,000-40,000 Lebanese and Palestinian civilians, over a 100,000 seriously injured, and over half a million people were left homeless. By way of irony, it was the IDF devastation of Lebanese Shi'ite Muslim villages in THIS war, who took no action against the Israelis and stood ALOOF from Arab Nationalists, that gave rise to the Party Of God (Hizbullah).

Edited by B Jenkins
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In these "number of attempts" who exactly has refused to come to the table? What, exactly, have the Palestinians been asked to do and what have they offered in return? The fallacy of thinking is easily cleared when you explain those two elements. If you are honest you have to admit that he Palis have given nothing. You will have to admit that only Israel is expected to relent and to give. Always. And for their willingness to surrender land that they also feel is theirs they cannot even gain a public statement by a Palestinian leader that Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people. And you feel this is fair and just because you apparently believe Israel to be wholly illegitimate and to have no right to anything except being shown the highway... does that about sum it up? Or is their some other way you'd like to parse that inconvenient truth?

The "Palis" don't have anything to give. Through the Oslo Accords the Palestinians were asked to recognise the State of Israel and they did. Israel's commitment was to stop building settlements and they never did. Israel doesn't need to "surrender" land, they need to give it back. The rest of the world calls it "Occupied Territory", not disputed territory.

Why should the Palestinians recognise Israel as a Jewish State? 20% of Israel's population is made up of Arabs/Palestinians. How is this Democratic as Israel claims to be?

Recognising Israel as a Jewish State is like recognising Zionism, which is basically like accepting Apartheid.

Anyway, according to Kerry, they have two years left to reach a solution.

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Posted (edited)

You even attempted to state that Israel was under some divine providence for its series of victories in conflict. But lets take a more rational and grounded look at these conflicts...

:tu: And just putting this into perspective, the US Govt is currently supplying Israel with US$ 3 billion each year in aid to boost their already rich military arsenal while populations in East Africa are still starving from drought and famine. Some 9 million people from Somalia, Ethiopia, Kenya, Djibouti are in dire straights and in need of all the humanitarian aid they can get.

Mind you, if US citizens are happy their Govt supplies Israel with their hard earned tax dollars so they can bully their way around the ME, who am I to stick my beak in. But it sounds quite naive when they see flags burning, ask "why" and get angry about it.

Edited by Black Red Devil
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:tu: And just putting this into perspective, the US Govt is currently supplying Israel with US$ 3 billion each year in aid to boost their already rich military arsenal while populations in East Africa are still starving from drought and famine. Some 9 million people from Somalia, Ethiopia, Kenya, Djibouti are in dire straights and in need of all the humanitarian aid they can get.

Mind you, if US citizens are happy their Govt supplies Israel with their hard earned tax dollars so they can bully their way around the ME, who am I to stick my beak in. But it sounds quite naive when they see flags burning, ask "why" and get angry about it.

Yeah, that's us, naive. I agree that the suffering in the horn of Africa is awful. The brotherly love of their Muslim counterparts in the M.E. should be flooding them with food and medicine. It IS the religion of peace after all. And btw, Americans are pretty much done with asking why. We are moving on to the unbridled retribution phase. That's the curious thing about being PC, after awhile, when one sees that NO MATTER WHAT we do, we are still faulted and jeered, well, let's just say that lashing out - even irrationally - becomes easier to contemplate. Human nature, ya know?

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Yeah, that's us, naive. I agree that the suffering in the horn of Africa is awful. The brotherly love of their Muslim counterparts in the M.E. should be flooding them with food and medicine. It IS the religion of peace after all. And btw, Americans are pretty much done with asking why.

You need yo brush up on your geography because only Somalia is composed of mostly Muslims. Kenya, Ethiopia and Eritrea are majority Christians (Kenya almost 90%).

We are moving on to the unbridled retribution phase. That's the curious thing about being PC, after awhile, when one sees that NO MATTER WHAT we do, we are still faulted and jeered, well, let's just say that lashing out - even irrationally - becomes easier to contemplate. Human nature, ya know?

Oh yeah, we all know about your Govt's retribution and exploits lately. As I said, don't get surprised and ponder why when you have situations like the Boston Marathon. Now go explain to the family of those victims "it's only human nature, ya know".

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You need yo brush up on your geography because only Somalia is composed of mostly Muslims. Kenya, Ethiopia and Eritrea are majority Christians (Kenya almost 90%).

Oh yeah, we all know about your Govt's retribution and exploits lately. As I said, don't get surprised and ponder why when you have situations like the Boston Marathon. Now go explain to the family of those victims "it's only human nature, ya know".

Yet it is Somalia that is by far in the worst condition. You understood my point and did not dispute it I see. I am not at all surprised by the Boston marathon murders. In fact I am amazed that this trash hasn't long ago started these kinds of attacks. Americans are a hard headed lot. If these attacks become as common as, say, the bus and cafe bombings of the second intifada in Israel, I predict the world will see a much less restrained version of American power. I owe no apologies or explanations to those families. Their MURDERERS do. America is at war and all citizens here had better become wise to that. There is no safe place any longer. They may come here to kill us but I'll be damned if we'll die on our knees like some I could name.

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Yeah, that's us, naive. I agree that the suffering in the horn of Africa is awful. The brotherly love of their Muslim counterparts in the M.E. should be flooding them with food and medicine. It IS the religion of peace after all.

It's not about them, And Then, it's about you, me and your "Christian nation".

I donate to UNICEF and other groups trying to save lives in Africa. It's the Christian thing to do, to try and help when, where and how you can.

But you're simply saying "meh, they're Muslims, they should be helping each other" rather then "you're right, we should be spending money on the suffering before helping a country more then able to stand on it's own two feet financially".

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Unless someone puts up a convincing proposition that JC approves of what his 'chosen people' are doing 'over there' the Zionapartheid persuasions will always be criminals against humanity to me ....

'they' suffered a holocaust you say > ?

Things they're responsible for today makes me think that maybe they deserved it and they should have another coming their way if JC is as authentic as they come

Me anti Semitic >? No ... just anti Zionapartheid

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Unless someone puts up a convincing proposition that JC approves of what his 'chosen people' are doing 'over there' the Zionapartheid persuasions will always be criminals against humanity to me ....

'they' suffered a holocaust you say > ?

Things they're responsible for today makes me think that maybe they deserved it and they should have another coming their way if JC is as authentic as they come

Me anti Semitic >? No ... just anti Zionapartheid

But to alleviate this evil in the world my guess is that you'd not be overly upset if Israel was successfully invaded and defeated by the err...rightful owners of that land? Call it whatever you like 3rd eye. The problem with most here who so loudly decry the sins of Israel is that they do no such thing for any OTHER entity in the world doing the same or worse things with far less justification. Nah, you're not anti Jew at all...

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But to alleviate this evil in the world my guess is that you'd not be overly upset if Israel was successfully invaded and defeated by the err...rightful owners of that land? Call it whatever you like 3rd eye. The problem with most here who so loudly decry the sins of Israel is that they do no such thing for any OTHER entity in the world doing the same or worse things with far less justification. Nah, you're not anti Jew at all...

Israel will never be thrown out of their land they have been given, so why all the fear of that happening ?

Why is Israel treating Palestinian people like S*** when they themselves would NOT like to be treated as such, and especially on their own land ?

Nobody can expect to treat somebody/anybody like S*** without reprisals, and You wonder why Palestine fight's back...

Correct me IF I am wrong, but isn't this topic about "Life In Occupied Palestine" and NOT about "any OTHER entity in the world" ?

What America is doing is (in my opinion) totally disgusting and wrong, killing innocent people with drones etc and there are various other atrocities in the world that are not caused/committed by Israel

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Israel will never be thrown out of their land they have been given, so why all the fear of that happening ?

Why is Israel treating Palestinian people like S*** when they themselves would NOT like to be treated as such, and especially on their own land ?

Nobody can expect to treat somebody/anybody like S*** without reprisals, and You wonder why Palestine fight's back...

Correct me IF I am wrong, but isn't this topic about "Life In Occupied Palestine" and NOT about "any OTHER entity in the world" ?

What America is doing is (in my opinion) totally disgusting and wrong, killing innocent people with drones etc and there are various other atrocities in the world that are not caused/committed by Israel

I don't wonder about the motives of the Palestinians. I'm well aware of them - unlike many here apparently. And it only requires reading a little history and not sitting drooling in front of main stream media. The world is REALLY going to be peeowed when Israel's neighbors attack in "righteous indignation" and get humiliated, including the loss of even more land. Killing innocents with drones is evil. Sending in large forces on the ground and killing even MORE innocents and the soldiers would be worse. Perhaps you'd feel it was fairer if soldiers risked life and limb and some of them died?

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and then,

We are all quite lucky not to be born a Palestinian in the occupied territories, we are all so fortunate not to have parents and grandparents living under the oppressive regime of Israel.

If we have a medical emergencies, we are comforted we can get our loved ones to the hospitals without delay. If our loved ones need medical prescriptions, they will be filled and available and instantly accessible to us. If our mothers or fathers suffer an emergency in which food, clothing, and baby care are needed that these are as instantly available with money and goodwill.

We are fortunate we enjoy the freedoms that we do in that our children are safe and that there is no harassing roadblocks or checkpoints that can hold up our parents and siblings for several hours or days.

That we have instant access to stores, hospitals, doctors, etc. That is not true with the Palestinians under occupation.

I truly wonder what your thoughts would be if YOUR parents were born and raised in Palestine and living under the occupation. What if you mother lived over there, what if your father lived over there, what if your siblings or children lived over there. I bet if you stepped into their shoes for just over a 24 hour period, you'd probably crack! :blink:

I bet the experience would be instant catharsis to your high-faluting religious views. There are no exceptions to the rules regarding human rights violations.

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