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Scepticus

Earth and Jupiter connection

34 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Hi Everyone

Over in the ET section there's a discussion on about if Earth was a moon of Jupiter once. Found here: http://www.unexplain...5

I called on my friends which is an Astronomer to explain me if this was correct or not. Unfortunately he didn't have a lot of time as he is attending a conference this week.

Although he did have time* to explain me there is a theory which states that Earth and all other planets in the inner solar system originated from beyond Jupiter and its was actually Jupiter which pulled them into the inner solar system.

Anyone heard of this theory and would care to explain it. Also by definition of this theory could you say that Earth used to be a moon of Jupiter?

Thank you in advance

:D

* - Edit

Edited by Scepticus

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Posted (edited)

I'm not a scientist - nor have I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express recently ( :D ) but using the definition as you wrote it out.. I would say "No"... To be a moon (or other satellite) of Jupiter or any other planet, the Earth would have to orbit around Jupiter... This defintion seems to suggest that the planets were out in the outter system (past Jupiter) and orbiting the Sun (not Jupiter), but Jupiter's gravity pulled them in to eventually settle where they are now...

Personally I don't believe this theory... I have no data to back up my belief, it's just a belief... I believe that the planets more or less formed where they are currently orbiting...

I have been reading the thread(s) about this and absolutely NOTHING the original poster has put down as 'evidence' has made me to rethink my beliefs in the slightest (his purposefully atrocious grammer dosen't help his cause any either)...

Edited by Taun

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Posted (edited)

It's a general belief that the rocky planets orbit closer to a sun. The gaseous planets further.

Edited by Mentalcase

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It's a general belief that the rocky planets orbit closer to a sun. The gaseous planets further.

what bout pluto and other sub planets that orbit on the outside?

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what bout pluto and other sub planets that orbit on the outside?

That would be an issue of dispersion and gravity.

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I'm not a scientist - nor have I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express recently ( :D ) but using the definition as you wrote it out.. I would say "No"... To be a moon (or other satellite) of Jupiter or any other planet, the Earth would have to orbit around Jupiter... This defintion seems to suggest that the planets were out in the outter system (past Jupiter) and orbiting the Sun (not Jupiter), but Jupiter's gravity pulled them in to eventually settle where they are now...

Personally I don't believe this theory... I have no data to back up my belief, it's just a belief... I believe that the planets more or less formed where they are currently orbiting...

I have been reading the thread(s) about this and absolutely NOTHING the original poster has put down as 'evidence' has made me to rethink my beliefs in the slightest (his purposefully atrocious grammer dosen't help his cause any either)...

its one theory that earth was made from the debri of jupiter

Ive been saying it a million times but i think yall thought i jus made this stuff up.

I seen that its a theory that jupiter was the first planet made and earth and other planets got what was left of the debri

so my theory that based on that theory

if jupiter was the first planet all the debri orbited it

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That would be an issue of dispersion and gravity.

whats the difference between mecury, our moon and pluto?

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whats the difference between mecury, our moon and pluto?

Ahem. Dispersion and GRAVITY.

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whats the difference between mecury, our moon and pluto?

Mercury and our moon have better PR agents...

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Mercury and our moon have better PR agents...

haha

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its one theory that earth was made from the debri of jupiter

Ive been saying it a million times but i think yall thought i jus made this stuff up.

I seen that its a theory that jupiter was the first planet made and earth and other planets got what was left of the debri

so my theory that based on that theory

if jupiter was the first planet all the debri orbited it

Utter non-sense!... Just because Jupiter may (or may not) have been formed first DOES NOT MEAN THAT EVERY THING ORBITED IT!...

Let us assume then (for the sake of arguement) that Jupiter did indeed form first... What you would have is a large disk - or ring if you prefer - of dust stretching from near the sun out to where the Oort cloud would later form...

In the midst of that 'soup' of dust would be a (semi) cleared pathway where Jupiter formed and is orbiting, as it attracts the nearby dust to it... Then later as other planets begin forming (assuming they didn't start the same time Jupiter did), you would have similar tracks in the dust where they formed... They would not have formed, circling (orbiting) Jupiter! but orbiting either closer to the sun or further out as the case may be...

Had all the planets been formed orbiting Jupiter, they would have torn themselves apart by collisions and gravitational forces... Can you seriously see Saturn orbiting Jupiter? Along with Neptune and Uranus?... Seriously?... And if by some major miracle of astro-physics, the planets avoided instant destruction... How would the sun be powerful enough to pull these planet/moons of Jupiter away, some to draw inward and some to cast outward into stable orbits - AND NOT TOUCH THE MOONS THAT ARE THERE TODAY?...

One more time in case you missed it... Just because Jupiter may (or may not) have been formed first DOES NOT MEAN THAT EVERY THING ORBITED IT!...

Hopefully that will be plain enough to understand...

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Posted (edited)

Utter non-sense!... Just because Jupiter may (or may not) have been formed first DOES NOT MEAN THAT EVERY THING ORBITED IT!...

Let us assume then (for the sake of arguement) that Jupiter did indeed form first... What you would have is a large disk - or ring if you prefer - of dust stretching from near the sun out to where the Oort cloud would later form...

In the midst of that 'soup' of dust would be a (semi) cleared pathway where Jupiter formed and is orbiting, as it attracts the nearby dust to it... Then later as other planets begin forming (assuming they didn't start the same time Jupiter did), you would have similar tracks in the dust where they formed... They would not have formed, circling (orbiting) Jupiter! but orbiting either closer to the sun or further out as the case may be...

Had all the planets been formed orbiting Jupiter, they would have torn themselves apart by collisions and gravitational forces... Can you seriously see Saturn orbiting Jupiter? Along with Neptune and Uranus?... Seriously?... And if by some major miracle of astro-physics, the planets avoided instant destruction... How would the sun be powerful enough to pull these planet/moons of Jupiter away, some to draw inward and some to cast outward into stable orbits - AND NOT TOUCH THE MOONS THAT ARE THERE TODAY?...

One more time in case you missed it... Just because Jupiter may (or may not) have been formed first DOES NOT MEAN THAT EVERY THING ORBITED IT!...

Hopefully that will be plain enough to understand...

Just because Jupiter may (or may not) have been formed first DOES NOT MEAN THAT EVERY THING ORBITED IT!...

yes u correct saturn, uranus and neptune did not orbit jupiter

i said that statement to generalize my point so ppl can get the picture

i dont believe the othe gas giants orbited jupiter ther were made rough as the sametime as jupiter

really all the bodies in our solar system was made at the same time in universe years

but jupiter saturn uranus and neptune, formed first

How would the sun be powerful enough to pull these planet/moons of Jupiter away, some to draw inward and some to cast outward into stable orbits - AND NOT TOUCH THE MOONS THAT ARE THERE TODAY?...

they did and these planets/moon clearly would be the on outer part of jupiter's orbit biggest reason why the sun pulled them away.. because they was leavin jupiter's gravitational grip and yes collision were frequent

and why do we interpret collision with planet explosion

just look at moons surface

collisions are part of the game in our universe

Edited by MR.Blueprint

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yes u correct saturn, uranus and neptune did not orbit jupiter

How would the sun be powerful enough to pull these planet/moons of Jupiter away, some to draw inward and some to cast outward into stable orbits - AND NOT TOUCH THE MOONS THAT ARE THERE TODAY?...

they did and these planets/moon clearly would be the on outer part of jupiter's orbit biggest reason why the sun pulled them away.. because they was leavin jupiter's gravitational grip and yes collision were frequent

and why do we interpret collision with planet explosion

just look at moons surface

collisions are part of the game in our universe

The moons surface scars were made by relatively small chucks of space debris... Two full sized planets colliding would leave no marks - it would obliterate both of them! - They might reform millions of years later - but there would be no craters from that collision...

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The moons surface scars were made by relatively small chucks of space debris... Two full sized planets colliding would leave no marks - it would obliterate both of them! - They might reform millions of years later - but there would be no craters from that collision...

Two full sized planets colliding would leave no marks - it would obliterate both of them! - They might reform millions of years later - but there would be no craters from that collision...

ok apply this to your original question

and "two full size planets" whatever that mean can collide without being obliterated

if a smaller planet hits a bigger planets they both will have chunks exploded off and then reform and may become partner moons/planets

collisions happen everyday in space b

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Utter non-sense!...

Hopefully that will be plain enough to understand...

:tu: I wouldn't hold your breath on that...

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Two full sized planets colliding would leave no marks - it would obliterate both of them! - They might reform millions of years later - but there would be no craters from that collision...

ok apply this to your original question

and "two full size planets" whatever that mean can collide without being obliterated

if a smaller planet hits a bigger planets they both will have chunks exploded off and then reform and may become partner moons/planets

collisions happen everyday in space b

It's not billiards... If two planets come close enough together to actually, physically hit, they will draw into each other by gravity, and because they would be on converging courses..This usually doesn't happen to asterooids or other vastly smaller objects, because their gravity is weak enough that it does not overcome their differing vectors and velocity... Two planets (bodies with a mass of around 5x1024 - like the Earth for example) would pull each other in and they would actually 'course correct' toward each other... A Mars sized planet (for example) would not just hit and bounce off of a Venus sized planet, and then both start orbiting each other.... If it was a 'grazing blow' then both would be essentially destroyed and they would form a large debris field that would then either reform a single planet or form an asteroid belt...

One prominent theory of our moons formation is that a Mars sized planet (called Theia by some) collided with a Venus sized planet ("Earth")... The resultant collision smashed both, and ejected a sizable chunk of the lighter surface material which formed a debris field around the two smashed planets.... The temperature of the planets rose to in excess of 7000 degrees and melted the two cores together, as well as fusing the material from both into the planet we have today... The debris field reformed as the moon...

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It's not billiards... If two planets come close enough together to actually, physically hit, they will draw into each other by gravity, and because they would be on converging courses..This usually doesn't happen to asterooids or other vastly smaller objects, because their gravity is weak enough that it does not overcome their differing vectors and velocity... Two planets (bodies with a mass of around 5x1024 - like the Earth for example) would pull each other in and they would actually 'course correct' toward each other... A Mars sized planet (for example) would not just hit and bounce off of a Venus sized planet, and then both start orbiting each other.... If it was a 'grazing blow' then both would be essentially destroyed and they would form a large debris field that would then either reform a single planet or form an asteroid belt...

One prominent theory of our moons formation is that a Mars sized planet (called Theia by some) collided with a Venus sized planet ("Earth")... The resultant collision smashed both, and ejected a sizable chunk of the lighter surface material which formed a debris field around the two smashed planets.... The temperature of the planets rose to in excess of 7000 degrees and melted the two cores together, as well as fusing the material from both into the planet we have today... The debris field reformed as the moon...

yes "theia" was also in the orbit of jupiter

and collided with earth on the way out of jupiter's gravitational pull

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yes "theia" was also in the orbit of jupiter

and collided with earth on the way out of jupiter's gravitational pull

I'm starting to think you're just having fun with us now...

I'm out of here...

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I'm starting to think you're just having fun with us now...

I'm out of here...

sensible choice, hes just one of those who likes to yank peoples cranks... like he did in the ET forums..

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sensible choice, hes just one of those who likes to yank peoples cranks... like he did in the ET forums..

u manage to follow me?

you must be orbiting me huh?

im bout to throw you into the star

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Posted (edited)

u manage to follow me?

you must be orbiting me huh?

im bout to throw you into the star

follow you? hell no, of all people. Unlike yourself I do visit and follow many threads...some just for the cringe and entertainment factor, like yours....I don't just obsess about moons/planets etc

thinking-Dont-Believe-Think.jpg

Edited by seeder
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u manage to follow me?

you must be orbiting me huh?

im bout to throw you into the star

Im thinking that most people are visiting your threads because its simply FUN.... COMEDY GOLD really. I have showed friends parts of it.... they are laughing like crazy... some just shaking their heads.... blaming the US school system.

The educational value comes from the counter posts to your wacky ideas.

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I repeat what I posted on the ET forums:

I feel a little sorry for the OPer here.

There are a lot of assumptions in this thread, a lot of which assumes, and has been stated, that the formation of the solar system is well understood. In actual fact it is not, the formation of planetary systems is very much still a big mystery. This is why Astronomers pay a lot of attention to young systems in the hope they can gain a little understanding of how those systems are forming, and any models of how the Solar System formed are pure theory.

Clearly the OPer lacks some fundamental understanding here of how certain aspects of physics work, but no one here can argue 100% against their theory. Why is it so inconcievable that a rocky body orbiting Jupiter wasnt knocked closer to the sun, perhaps in that journey this body fragmented further creating all the inner planets and forming the asteroid belt?

Dont get me wrong, I am not supporting the OP's statement, I do believe we have a good theoretical model of the formation of the Solar System, however I feel I need to speak out against some of the conceit I have witnessed in this thread. Anyone who has a little understanding of Physics, particularly Relativity should know that pretty much anything is possible within these realms.

A note to the OPer: Dont assume your theory is the correct one, it takes a truly intelligent person to happily accept their theory is incorrect, becuase every theory that is proven wrong takes us a step closer to knowing the truth.

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I'm not quite sure why you have sympathy for the OP here; it is all just attention getting.

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I'm not quite sure why you have sympathy for the OP here; it is all just attention getting.

:tu: Precisely. Is it 3 or 4 threads he started where he cross posts the same questions? Then dismisses everyones inputs..

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