Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 2
Ever Learning

Christians and oppression

121 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

There are a small number of oppressed Christians mostly in Muslim countries, but as a whole nowadays Christians mostly do the oppressing.

Reality check: Christians are oppressed in ALL muslim countries. From being banned outright (in Shariah countries like Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia) to living under second-class dhimmi conditions (in "moderate" muslim countries such as Turkey and Malaysia).

No equivalent exists in the Christian world. Talk about an upside-down world-view!

From gay rights

Gay rights? Christians oppose same-sex marriage (something that I do too as an atheist). Under Islam, homosexuality is punishable by DEATH. Ahmedinejad on his US visit was bragging that Iran is free of homosexuals. The only pictures of homosexuals in the islamic republic show those who are hanging out.... by their necks, under construction cranes.

And you lambast the.... Christians???

to genocide

Which genocide? The genocide of the Christian Armenians, committed by the muslim Turkish government? That is whitewashed by the Turkish government, and never criticized anywhere in the muslim world.

Or the Jewish genocide? That is praised by islamist preachers all over the muslim world as a great success, and Yussuf Al Qaradafi (the spiritual leader of the Muslim Brotherhood) calls for a repeat.

Or the genocide of the Indian hindus during the muslim invasion of India? Or the genocide of the Afghanistan Buddhists during the muslim conquest of Afghanistan? Any other you had in mind?

You are sure you are not barking up the wrong tree again?

Edited by Zaphod222
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

native americans? what on earth are you talking about? There was never a holy war declared on native american by christians.

gay rights? Nowhere on earth are gays being murdered by christians just for being gay.

Now in muslim countries that is a different story.

the native americans liked the christians and even lived with mormons

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about the history of "christian" on christian oppression? Look at the history of the church of england and the roman church against the Baptist or anabaptist movement. Who knows how many people were killed just because they didn't think infant baptism was biblical. these people were beaten, imprisoned, hanged, and even burned at the stake for heresay. How's that for christian love and understanding?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

What about the history of "christian" on christian oppression? Look at the history of the church of england and the roman church against the Baptist or anabaptist movement. Who knows how many people were killed just because they didn't think infant baptism was biblical. these people were beaten, imprisoned, hanged, and even burned at the stake for heresay. How's that for christian love and understanding?

There has been plenty of that. But once again, Christianity has overcome that. You don´t see Catholics massacring Protestants today. While in the muslim world.... just open your newspaper to see how the Shiites and Sunnis get along, and how both of them treat the Ahmediyyas.

Once again: Barking up the wrong tree.

Edited by Zaphod222
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

native americans? what on earth are you talking about? There was never a holy war declared on native american by christians.

gay rights? Nowhere on earth are gays being murdered by christians just for being gay.

Now in muslim countries that is a different story.

please dont act like christian ideologies dont play a part in oppressing gays, or native americans for that matter especially in reguard to spirituality... oppression isnt always about murder but by seperation and demonizing people as well.. divide and conquer, this was the motive of many founding fathers which had a lot to do with racism as well and white elitism but religion/christianity has been used for a scapegoat to this, now this doesnt have to do with gays, but it is blatently clear that the common thought in christianity, whether you think so or not is that being gay is a sin and basically having an evil spirit in you, resulting in gay people being rejected from religion.. sure they could join another religion but this would be an even further obamination, wouldnt you agree?... there is a rift or should I say historically there has been a rift between any non christian and christian and christians in america besides the almighty dollar have been the ruling way of life. Im not saying its all bad, but its the bad that surfaces to the top and controlls everything to the bottom. . There is some deep rooted bigotry embedded into the religion that makes seperatism ok..... for example what does the church teach about pagans and gays? If we hate somebody, or have a whole legion of folks who have demonized a whole group this is oppression. Now a days our laws are not governed by religion but christianity is deeply embedded into the culture. Times are changing and have been changing drastically and christians need to open thier eyes to a lot of things. Its ok to be christian but dont act like everything about being a christian is ok....

Sorry if I sound abrasive right now I dont have time to edit and butter it up a little better.

Much love in Christ

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Treat other people as you want to be treated, and love God and other people with all of your might. Forgive people when they wrong you, and turn the other cheek. Be kind to the least of humanity. It's impossible to oppress people if you follow those admonitions from Christ.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good topic armchair :)

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_retainer_sacrifices

this is about human sacrfice for egyptians, i state this not to insult the whole of the egyptian religion but to show you they arnt at least perfect. this isnt directed at all umers just the one who hijacked my topic. its a bit unfair to compare a living religion to a dead oneone and then say their hands are clean due to a lack of evidence.

how is it possible to be part of this religion? do you think of your self as a high priest?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

i often read people comments that they show no sympathy to christians who are oppressed, because christians have a history for oppression. that being said i do hear sympathy from alot of non christians.

as a christian i have never took part in a holywar or supported any of the ones before i was born.

i have never taken it upon my self to own slaves and try to support my actions with the bible and dont see the logic of the ones who did before me.

i have never burnt a witch.

i have never walked door to door preaching.

as far as im aware ive never said a UMer was going to hell.

i have never been oppressed but do you think me, and others like me derserve oppresion?

much love from an unoppressed christian

Do I think you deserve oppession? No, I don't think any christian deserves oppression necessarily. However in this country same sex marriage is currently going through the process pf being legalised. Many christian denominations said they were against it because the law would 'oppess' them. The problem with that, of course, is that believe is oppressing the christian groups (and non-christians) that want it. That's an example of modern day christians attempting to commit oppression.

Oppression doesn't begin and end in the death or imprisonment. While muslim countries are very oppressive (and it's important to note christians aren't the only ones oppressed in them, but pretty much every group is) it's important to remember that form of oppression is the most extreme end of the scale, not the only one. It's also important to note that a lot of the groups muslims oppress were also oppress by christian states as well (not necessarily in the same manner though).

Oppression shouldn't be excused because that form of oppression is part of a religions scripture. That includes any religion, not just christianity.

So back to your main point. Should you be oppressed for being a christian? No. But if you're using your christianity to attempt to oppress others, than you shouldn't expect people to react positively to it. (And it should be noted too that christians seem quite happy to oppress one another and that should be challenged as much as christians trying to oppress non christians.)

Edited by shadowhive
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The oppressors (you know who you are) 36625d32f135.gif

The oppressed (me) 75662a019fe7.gif

and now I must fly eaa07355cfe3.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Treat other people as you want to be treated, and love God and other people with all of your might. Forgive people when they wrong you, and turn the other cheek. Be kind to the least of humanity. It's impossible to oppress people if you follow those admonitions from Christ.

Amen

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We need to watch how we turn our cheek though...

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We need to watch how we turn our cheek though...

It's easier said than done at times. Sometimes, when someone slaps my cheek, I can barely resist the urge to punch both of their cheeks in return. :whistle: I have those cartoon angels and devils on my shoulders. Sometimes, I listen to the guy, dressed in red, with the horns, tail, trident, etc..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then I guess Spanish Inquisition was a thing of fiction? :whistle:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then I guess Spanish Inquisition was a thing of fiction? :whistle:

No it was a thing of history not perpetrated by anyone living today.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Religion oppresses its own and no others that but those that choose to be opressed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reality check: Christians are oppressed in ALL muslim countries. From being banned outright (in Shariah countries like Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia) to living under second-class dhimmi conditions (in "moderate" muslim countries such as Turkey and Malaysia).

No equivalent exists in the Christian world. Talk about an upside-down world-view!

Gay rights? Christians oppose same-sex marriage (something that I do too as an atheist). Under Islam, homosexuality is punishable by DEATH. Ahmedinejad on his US visit was bragging that Iran is free of homosexuals. The only pictures of homosexuals in the islamic republic show those who are hanging out.... by their necks, under construction cranes.

And you lambast the.... Christians???

Which genocide? The genocide of the Christian Armenians, committed by the muslim Turkish government? That is whitewashed by the Turkish government, and never criticized anywhere in the muslim world.

Or the Jewish genocide? That is praised by islamist preachers all over the muslim world as a great success, and Yussuf Al Qaradafi (the spiritual leader of the Muslim Brotherhood) calls for a repeat.

Or the genocide of the Indian hindus during the muslim invasion of India? Or the genocide of the Afghanistan Buddhists during the muslim conquest of Afghanistan? Any other you had in mind?

You are sure you are not barking up the wrong tree again?

I think you are barking up a completely random tree there my friend. Relatively speaking there are not that many ' oppressed' chriistians. I don know what tangent your on... But I do not disagree with most of what you said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

native americans? what on earth are you talking about? There was never a holy war declared on native american by christians.

gay rights? Nowhere on earth are gays being murdered by christians just for being gay.

Now in muslim countries that is a different story.

I'm not talking about any holy wars. I'm talking about Christians perpetrating genocide. You cannot separate a the religion from the actions of the people. If 95% of the actors in something are Christians, then one can say it was Christians who did the acting. Not all of them of course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A true Christian principle is not to oppress but to free (the way I see it)

Why should we appologize for other peoples malpractice or held accountable for it?

Perhaps the version (the mask) that promotes this is not our religion at all but, we are still Christian.

Ive said this for a long time, and not directed at you in particular seeker, I think you know this.. but peoples understanding needs to open up on all sides. And all need to be cognizant of how to treat other people. Titles are nothing, the principles are what matter, knowing what is important to us and what we have discerned to make a part of our practice (religion) will alert us how to respond in any environment. Christians need to learn they dont have to agree with everything the pastors or the old ways say... we ALL should be on the road to seeing each other as equal, special, worthy. (Even those who need work, because... we all need work)

That's all good wisdom there. And I don't think anybody should be held accountable for another's action, my point was that a person might consider holding themselves accountable for the actions of others in the same group especially a religion. If I were Christian I would feel some personal responsibility to how how other Christians behave. I would not be able to help it. Hell!!! I feel some personal responsibility to how other humans behave just because for now im one of them. I'm an American, and I'm constantly troubled how we behave abroad, why we dropped the the atomic bombs when Japan was already going to surrender.... And a thousand other things. I suppose that's why my blood pressure is all over the place. I don't even watch the news anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

That's all good wisdom there. And I don't think anybody should be held accountable for another's action, my point was that a person might consider holding themselves accountable for the actions of others in the same group especially a religion. If I were Christian I would feel some personal responsibility to how how other Christians behave. I would not be able to help it. Hell!!! I feel some personal responsibility to how other humans behave just because for now im one of them. I'm an American, and I'm constantly troubled how we behave abroad, why we dropped the the atomic bombs when Japan was already going to surrender.... And a thousand other things. I suppose that's why my blood pressure is all over the place. I don't even watch the news anymore.

I did understand your point.. but man really we cant help what other people do... we can write a letter, complain cry etc... but it was not our principle that led them to do that action, im sure if we could counsel them and they would listen we would (and thats not to say we know everything, but i do know some things, like justice for all). Life is not a two sided coin, i get what your saying, im neither agreeing or disagreeing... and I am agreeing and disagreeing all ay the same time. Lol.

Peace Seeker

Edited by SpiritWriter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My opinion is that we are all connected. We seem to live in this world so divided and seperated by the division of religion, country and race.

Though some would argue with the fact that this has nothing to do with religion or country I beg to differ as I believe we as beings seriously have to lay down

these segregative differences and realize that there should have never been all these seperated ways of thinking. All the prophets are but ONE and GOd is One for all,

There is no Religion better than the other or No Religion that is going to get you to HEAVEN and the Other Get you to HEll.

It is all designed to keep makind apart unfortunately. We need to understand the reality around us and it's simple......( YOU) the way you live your life, the way you treat others and every living creatures great or small in this WOMB called EARTH, the way you embrace eachother with NO PREJUDICE and I mean irradicating all the negative way of thinking about another because the colour of their skin, to acknowledge you are not the only exsisting life form in this world and UNIVERSE, to awaken to the fact that everything around is is ENERGY and We give of as beings ALOT OF hot air! or negative energy.

Money has always been the driving force in this whole unfortunate SCAM!, I say scam because I look around me and I see way too much hunger, way too much desperation and sorrow, way too much negligence and seperation , way too much hatred and LIES!!!!

Our Purpose is simple: CHANGE, it might sound funny! yes indeed, it might sound ridiculous but we need to recondiotion our minds and CHANGE our way of thinking.

The question is WHY CHANGE? well the answere is simple too, If we don't change we leave nothing but pain for our future generation to come. We simply leave an EARTH with so much curroption. LIES and falsehood that we might as well pack up and call it a day!

Our food is being infiltrated, our minds and body has been manipulated We are sitting ducks! but when you awaken the mind and realize the mind has been misinformed for so long that you are afraid to investigate for fear of what you might find then you are on a very special Journey my friends.

it is not too late for change is about to come and it is the change of YOU, you are the change you are important you are special and you were chosen to experience this journey for a bigger reason than you know.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

native americans? what on earth are you talking about? There was never a holy war declared on native american by christians.

gay rights? Nowhere on earth are gays being murdered by christians just for being gay.

Now in muslim countries that is a different story.

In America the eradication (and that's not an exaggeration) of native people was never "declared." It was a continuing 273-year enterprise starting with King Josephs' War and ending with the killing of teenagers at Wounded Knee. The first English settlers considered their Indian neighbors to be "children of the devil." While the war was not a "religious" war, religion played a huge part.

In one sense, the extermination of American Indians was pre-ordained by culture, biology and technology. Biology came in to play in the form of the unwitting introduction of diseases to which the Indians had no immunity. Perhaps 90% of the pre-Columbian population was wiped out without ever seeing a white man.

Culture came into play when the Norse settlers on Greenland invited their Eskimo neighbors over for dinner and fed them milk-based products. Milk was not part of Eskimo culture or biology. It made them sick; religion followed up on that when the Eskimos thought they had been the victims of a curse and attacked the Norse.

Culture also came into play in the form of two very different attitudes toward war. In most Indian cultures, tribe and clan are extremely important. A person who was outcast from his tribe or clan was worthless and could be attacked and killed for his property, or on a whim. Settlers living alone on the frontier were often the victims of this misunderstanding, provoking white backlash - not against the perpetrators, but against the tribe as a whole - or even against other tribes.

Indians made war to punish a transgression, something like vendetta. If your people were harmed, you had the right to do the same to the people who harmed you. Your right to wage war did not extend to other clans and did not include wanton destruction. Whites, on the other hand, made war to destroy the enemy's ability to make war. Hence, the slaughter of the buffalo and the killing of horses - what did they have against the horses? Starving an enemy into submission was an unheard of tactic in Indian culture and would have been a crime against humanity.

And, toward the end, whites had a huge superiority in numbers. The Peace Chieves of the Five Civilized Tribes traveled to Washington at the invitation of the government. On the way they saw more whitemen than they ever imagined existed. When they returned west, they were the leaders in trying to achieve peaceful coexistence and, in some cases, the reason some of these tribes still exist.

And then there's firearms. Usually, it was the whites with the better weapons - and that was a deciding factor in many battles - but not at Little Bighorn. There the Indians were better armed and had more warriors. With the expected result.

And all this started because of what was basically, supersticion - on both sides.

To address the gay issue: killings of gays have definitely dropped off of late, but you are forgetting Matthew Sheppard whose killers tied him to a fence with barbed wire while they beat him to death. And then there is the Westboro Baptist Church whose actions stop just short of calling for murder of gays. They are the textbook example of Christian hate groups. Less than a decade ago, news reports of gay-bashing and gay murders were an almost nightly event.

I have seen a few individual Christians who live exemplary lives and seek to express that love in the world. But they are, sadly, a tiny minority in a crowd that rarely actually reads the Bible and never thinks for itself.

If you think Christians don't oppress others, tell one you're an atheist. Believe that Christians have given up oppression when you see an atheist in the White House.

Doug

Edited by Doug1o29
7 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then I guess Spanish Inquisition was a thing of fiction? :whistle:

I can rob a bank in your name. Does that make you a bank-robber?

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In America the eradication (and that's not an exaggeration) of native people was never "declared." It was a continuing 273-year enterprise starting with King Josephs' War and ending with the killing of teenagers at Wounded Knee. The first English settlers considered their Indian neighbors to be "children of the devil." While the war was not a "religious" war, religion played a huge part.

In one sense, the extermination of American Indians was pre-ordained by culture, biology and technology. Biology came in to play in the form of the unwitting introduction of diseases to which the Indians had no immunity. Perhaps 90% of the pre-Columbian population was wiped out without ever seeing a white man.

Culture came into play when the Norse settlers on Greenland invited their Eskimo neighbors over for dinner and fed them milk-based products. Milk was not part of Eskimo culture or biology. It made them sick; religion followed up on that when the Eskimos thought they had been the victims of a curse and attacked the Norse.

Culture also came into play in the form of two very different attitudes toward war. In most Indian cultures, tribe and clan are extremely important. A person who was outcast from his tribe or clan was worthless and could be attacked and killed for his property, or on a whim. Settlers living alone on the frontier were often the victims of this misunderstanding, provoking white backlash - not against the perpetrators, but against the tribe as a whole - or even against other tribes.

Indians made war to punish a transgression, something like vendetta. If your people were harmed, you had the right to do the same to the people who harmed you. Your right to wage war did not extend to other clans and did not include wanton destruction. Whites, on the other hand, made war to destroy the enemy's ability to make war. Hence, the slaughter of the buffalo and the killing of horses - what did they have against the horses? Starving an enemy into submission was an unheard of tactic in Indian culture and would have been a crime against humanity.

And, toward the end, whites had a huge superiority in numbers. The Peace Chieves of the Five Civilized Tribes traveled to Washington at the invitation of the government. On the way they saw more whitemen than they ever imagined existed. When they returned west, they were the leaders in trying to achieve peaceful coexistence and, in some cases, the reason some of these tribes still exist.

And then there's firearms. Usually, it was the whites with the better weapons - and that was a deciding factor in many battles - but not at Little Bighorn. There the Indians were better armed and had more warriors. With the expected result.

And all this started because of what was basically, supersticion - on both sides.

To address the gay issue: killings of gays have definitely dropped off of late, but you are forgetting Matthew Sheppard whose killers tied him to a fence with barbed wire while they beat him to death. And then there is the Westboro Baptist Church whose actions stop just short of calling for murder of gays. They are the textbook example of Christian hate groups. Less than a decade ago, news reports of gay-bashing and gay murders were an almost nightly event.

I have seen a few individual Christians who live exemplary lives and seek to express that love in the world. But they are, sadly, a tiny minority in a crowd that rarely actually reads the Bible and never thinks for itself.

If you think Christians don't oppress others, tell one you're an atheist. Believe that Christians have given up oppression when you see an atheist in the White House.

Doug

Wow. Nicely done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My opinion is that we are all connected. We seem to live in this world so divided and seperated by the division of religion, country and race.

Though some would argue with the fact that this has nothing to do with religion or country I beg to differ as I believe we as beings seriously have to lay down

these segregative differences and realize that there should have never been all these seperated ways of thinking. All the prophets are but ONE and GOd is One for all,

There is no Religion better than the other or No Religion that is going to get you to HEAVEN and the Other Get you to HEll.

It is all designed to keep makind apart unfortunately. We need to understand the reality around us and it's simple......( YOU) the way you live your life, the way you treat others and every living creatures great or small in this WOMB called EARTH, the way you embrace eachother with NO PREJUDICE and I mean irradicating all the negative way of thinking about another because the colour of their skin, to acknowledge you are not the only exsisting life form in this world and UNIVERSE, to awaken to the fact that everything around is is ENERGY and We give of as beings ALOT OF hot air! or negative energy.

Money has always been the driving force in this whole unfortunate SCAM!, I say scam because I look around me and I see way too much hunger, way too much desperation and sorrow, way too much negligence and seperation , way too much hatred and LIES!!!!

Our Purpose is simple: CHANGE, it might sound funny! yes indeed, it might sound ridiculous but we need to recondiotion our minds and CHANGE our way of thinking.

The question is WHY CHANGE? well the answere is simple too, If we don't change we leave nothing but pain for our future generation to come. We simply leave an EARTH with so much curroption. LIES and falsehood that we might as well pack up and call it a day!

Our food is being infiltrated, our minds and body has been manipulated We are sitting ducks! but when you awaken the mind and realize the mind has been misinformed for so long that you are afraid to investigate for fear of what you might find then you are on a very special Journey my friends.

it is not too late for change is about to come and it is the change of YOU, you are the change you are important you are special and you were chosen to experience this journey for a bigger reason than you know.

I wanted to like this fifteen times but it wouldnt let me.... this might be my favorite statement read so far

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 2

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.