The History of Schizophrenia

[notforgotten]

The psychiatrist's view on schizophrenia is a simpleton's view. To say that the schizophrenic experience may be caused by a mere brain malfunction lacks considerable understanding. The truth that schizophrenia is persecution by evil spirits require a far greater understanding. Psychiatry has failed to understand the truth and insists on passing on a lie.

[Arbenol]

I'm a diagnosed schizophrenic, and though I'm emotional and tend to become very passionate about things I'm still just a normal guy...

I don't hear voices telling me to chop people up, or see demons in everything, but when I do have a hallucination(usually when i'm stressed, but sometimes just out of the blue) I just stop myself and remember that I am a schizo, and this **** just happens sometimes...

Good for you. That level of insight is not easy to come by, but is probably the biggest single factor in achieving the best recovery outcome. It's good to hear stories like yours.

[Einsteinium]

I guess mystics dont know anything?

Thatx right. Mystics don't know anything

[Einsteinium]

The psychiatrist's view on schizophrenia is a simpleton's view. To say that the schizophrenic experience may be caused by a mere brain malfunction lacks considerable understanding. The truth that schizophrenia is persecution by evil spirits require a far greater understanding. Psychiatry has failed to understand the truth and insists on passing on a lie.

The mystics view of schizophrenia is the obvious simpleton's view. To say that the schizophrenic experience may be caused by invisible demons/spirits that cannot be proven to exist and thus avoid any real research and investigation into the condition because they think they understand it, when obviously, they do not. Far more difficult is it to research it, try different drugs and treatments, and actually make people's lives better. The mystic would maybe pray over the person, doing nothing to really help them. Contaminating their mind with the false idea that what they are experiencing is objectively real. Poisoning them with the idea that they are at fault for it, that they are being punished for sins.

No understanding is required to think you know that something is caused by 'evil spirits', all that is required to reach that conclusion is a complete disregard for reality.

I admit that psychology has a lot to learn still, but they are learning. The field is only about 100 years old or so- give it time. In that 100 years they have learned more than the mystics have taught us in the previous 1000 years about the mind and how it works.

[White Crane Feather]

The mystics view of schizophrenia is the obvious simpleton's view. To say that the schizophrenic experience may be caused by invisible demons/spirits that cannot be proven to exist and thus avoid any real research and investigation into the condition because they think they understand it, when obviously, they do not. Far more difficult is it to research it, try different drugs and treatments, and actually make people's lives better. The mystic would maybe pray over the person, doing nothing to really help them. Contaminating their mind with the false idea that what they are experiencing is objectively real. Poisoning them with the idea that they are at fault for it, that they are being punished for sins.

No understanding is required to think you know that something is caused by 'evil spirits', all that is required to reach that conclusion is a complete disregard for reality.

I admit that psychology has a lot to learn still, but they are learning. The field is only about 100 years old or so- give it time. In that 100 years they have learned more than the mystics have taught us in the previous 1000 years about the mind and how it works.

Are you sure that's what a modern mystic would do?

[Einsteinium]

Are you sure that's what a modern mystic would do?

I suppose it would depend on the mystic, as they are all different. But here is an example of what could happen: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/23/2nd-child-pa-couple-who-seek-prayer-not-doctors-dies-violates-probation-no/?test=latestnews

[White Crane Feather]

I suppose it would depend on the mystic, as they are all different. But here is an example of what could happen: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/23/2nd-child-pa-couple-who-seek-prayer-not-doctors-dies-violates-probation-no/?test=latestnews

I don't think you fully understand what a mystic is.

http://www.google.com/search?q=mystic&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#itp=open3

Meditation and a transpersonal approach could do a world of good for a religious/spiritual person with a mental illness. Coupled of course with modern medicine. The problem with pills and chemicals is that they treat the symptoms, not necessarily the cause or the root of the issue. A band aid can get you buy, make you functional, Mabey even hide your wound, but in the end it's only a band aid. The mind has the ability to reorganize itself, but it's usually done through the generation of new thought patterns by way of new experiences many times self generated.

The mystic is a skilled traveler through internal imagery and direct experience with the transpersonal. Through a practice in an altered state awareness, the mystic can have a better understanding of the person in crisis than Somone who only has learned to diagnose and prescribe. Not to say that medicine is wonderful, but it does not help one to understand themselves.

Let's take this thread for example. While you have been brow beating notforgotten about his beliefs based on your understanding of technology, I have been trying to lead him on a path to understanding his visions and hopefully incorporate them into his life in a more healthy way. There is not much I can do on a forum and his faith will not let him consider other possibilities at the moment, but at least I can plant a few seeds.

I can understand this because I have seen the types of things he has, I understand the shadow archetype and it's manifestations, I know how his visions reinforce his religious training and fervor. I know why he distrusts the medical community, and in truth they have failed him in that regard. A psychiatrist trained in transpersonal psychology would have never let that happen.

The human mind is a spiritual mind. Wether it's a product of evolutionary psychology or a spiritual reality is completely irrelevant. We are wired for it. To ignore it based on a fundamentalist belief in a materialistic reality is irresponsible for Somone interested in helping another to heal.

But yes it does depend on the mystic. Hint: some mystics are not really mystics.

"some have the power... And some just talk"

--- Geronimo an American Legend

Edited April 23, 2013 by Seeker79

[scowl]

The psychiatrist's view on schizophrenia is a simpleton's view.

Yes, they only have a college degree in psychology, graduated from medical school, and completed a four year residency. How could they know anything about mental disorders?

To say that the schizophrenic experience may be caused by a mere brain malfunction lacks considerable understanding.

Did I mention a bachelors in psychology, a medical degree, and a four year residency working with mental patients? Oh yes I did.

The truth that schizophrenia is persecution by evil spirits require a far greater understanding. Psychiatry has failed to understand the truth and insists on passing on a lie.

First prove scientifically that evil spirits exist. Once you have completed that experiment, come back here and publish the results.

You say you have millions of witnesses yet you can only reference a web site that has two unconfirmed testimonies. If you're trying to convince someone other than yourself, you're going to have to do more than repeat your assertion over and over.

We are not the simpletons here.

[Einsteinium]

I don't think you fully understand what a mystic is.

http://www.google.co...afari#itp=open3

Meditation and a transpersonal approach could do a world of good for a religious/spiritual person with a mental illness. Coupled of course with modern medicine. The problem with pills and chemicals is that they treat the symptoms, not necessarily the cause or the root of the issue. A band aid can get you buy, make you functional, Mabey even hide your wound, but in the end it's only a band aid. The mind has the ability to reorganize itself, but it's usually done through the generation of new thought patterns by way of new experiences many times self generated.

The mystic is a skilled traveler through internal imagery and direct experience with the transpersonal. Through a practice in an altered state awareness, the mystic can have a better understanding of the person in crisis than Somone who only has learned to diagnose and prescribe. Not to say that medicine is wonderful, but it does not help one to understand themselves.

Let's take this thread for example. While you have been brow beating notforgotten about his beliefs based on your understanding of technology, I have been trying to lead him on a path to understanding his visions and hopefully incorporate them into his life in a more healthy way. There is not much I can do on a forum and his faith will not let him consider other possibilities at the moment, but at least I can plant a few seeds.

I can understand this because I have seen the types of things he has, I understand the shadow archetype and it's manifestations, I know how his visions reinforce his religious training and fervor. I know why he distrusts the medical community, and in truth they have failed him in that regard. A psychiatrist trained in transpersonal psychology would have never let that happen.

The human mind is a spiritual mind. Wether it's a product of evolutionary psychology or a spiritual reality is completely irrelevant. We are wired for it. To ignore it based on a fundamentalist belief in a materialistic reality is irresponsible for Somone interested in helping another to heal.

But yes it does depend on the mystic. Hint: some mystics are not really mystics.

"some have the power... And some just talk"

--- Geronimo an American Legend

I like the kind of mystic you describe here and I have no quarrel with such a person. Perhaps the word mystic was not the correct terminology. Perhaps a better term would be crazy nutcase, or ignorant fool. Meditation is wonderful and I practice meditation myself. Its just that what the OP is saying is dangerous and demeaning to people that suffer from Schizophrenia.

[notforgotten]

The mystics view of schizophrenia is the obvious simpleton's view. I am not a mystic. Many Christians view it as spiritual warfare.To say that the schizophrenic experience may be caused by invisible demons/spirits that cannot be proven to exist and thus avoid any real research and investigation into the condition because they think they understand it, when obviously, they do not. I can explain any schizophrenic episode that you put before me. Far more difficult is it to research it, try different drugs and treatments, and actually make people's lives better. They lie to the patient resulting in less understanding and more confusion for the patient. The mystic would maybe pray over the person, doing nothing to really help them. Contaminating their mind with the false idea that what they are experiencing is objectively real. It is very real. Poisoning them with the idea that they are at fault for it, that they are being punished for sins. It's a call to grace so that they will not have to endure eternal punishment.

No understanding is required to think you know that something is caused by 'evil spirits', all that is required to reach that conclusion is a complete disregard for reality. You can not be a simpleton to understand it.

I admit that psychology has a lot to learn still, but they are learning. The field is only about 100 years old or so- give it time. In that 100 years they have learned more than the mystics have taught us in the previous 1000 years about the mind and how it works. This is not true.

Contemporary Christians will use spiritual warfare in their treatment program: http://www.access-jesus.com/christian-spiritual-warfare.html

[notforgotten]

I can understand this because I have seen the types of things he has, I understand the shadow archetype and it's manifestations, I know how his visions reinforce his religious training and fervor. I know why he distrusts the medical community, and in truth they have failed him in that regard. A psychiatrist trained in transpersonal psychology would have never let that happen. I am not schizophrenic by doctors definition. I am fairly healthy and sane. I truly have no need for any psychiatrist.

The human mind is a spiritual mind. Our thoughts are in the spirit world were there are many spirits that can hear them.

[notforgotten]

Yes, they only have a college degree in psychology, graduated from medical school, and completed a four year residency. How could they know anything about mental disorders? They do not know the first thing about psychosis. A person loses touch with reality at the hands of the devil.

First prove scientifically that evil spirits exist. Check the internet for ghost pictures. These spirits are usually the dead and are evil.

[notforgotten]

Its just that what the OP is saying is dangerous and demeaning to people that suffer from Schizophrenia.

What's demeaning is taking away the truth from these people. What they experienced is the invisible spirit world. And a great deal of understanding, knowledge, and wisdom can came from that experience. They can see how evil we are without God and turn to Jesus to be delivered from evil and live happily in heaven with the holy family for all of eternity. Great things can came through suffering.

[GoldenWolf]

I like the kind of mystic you describe here and I have no quarrel with such a person. Perhaps the word mystic was not the correct terminology. Perhaps a better term would be crazy nutcase, or ignorant fool. Meditation is wonderful and I practice meditation myself. Its just that what the OP is saying is dangerous and demeaning to people that suffer from Schizophrenia.

It's dangerous to all mankind (Then again, so is all religion).

[notforgotten]

It's dangerous to all mankind (Then again, so is all religion).

You know, I got to know some of the fallen human spirits without God. They suffer from their own consciousness, being as wicked and evil as they are. As a person they are worthless, they have no value. They can do no good, all they can do is harm. Between their lies and deceit they appear to be like that of an insane person. And to think they will be like that for all of eternity - how sad.

[Frank Merton]

There is no such thing as "wicked" and "evil." That is your mental disturbance talking. There is selfishness and desire and lust and things like that, that we all know can have harmful consequences, but that we sometimes give into, and there is bad luck (being in the wrong place at the right time to get hit by a bus), but nothing in this universe is "evil." It is a silly notion, something people should abandon about the same age as they abandon Santa Clause. What do you imagine? -- some demon somewhere waking up, stretching and yawning, then sitting up and rubbing his hands together and thinking, "Wonderful, a new day. What really evil thing can I do today?"

[Beany]

There is no such thing as "wicked" and "evil." That is your mental disturbance talking. There is selfishness and desire and lust and things like that, that we all know can have harmful consequences, but that we sometimes give into, and there is bad luck (being in the wrong place at the right time to get hit by a bus), but nothing in this universe is "evil." It is a silly notion, something people should abandon about the same age as they abandon Santa Clause. What do you imagine? -- some demon somewhere waking up, stretching and yawning, then sitting up and rubbing his hands together and thinking, "Wonderful, a new day. What really evil thing can I do today?"

Don't put ideas into their heads!

[scowl]

Yes, they only have a college degree in psychology, graduated from medical school, and completed a four year residency. How could they know anything about mental disorders?

They do not know the first thing about psychosis. A person loses touch with reality at the hands of the devil.

I'm sorry, did you not read me describing the eight years of training they receive studying mental disorders? Not only do they know the first thing about psychosis, they also know the second thing, the third thing, the fourth thing, the fifth thing, the sixth thing, the seventh thing, and a hundred more things about it that you don't.

Remember, they help these people live normal functional lives. Every day.

First prove scientifically that evil spirits exist.

Check the internet for ghost pictures. These spirits are usually the dead and are evil.

So that's your proof of Satanic possession as the only cause for psychosis??? Ghost pictures on the Internet???

Do you need me to explain to you what "prove scientifically" means?

[GoldenWolf]

You know, I got to know some of the fallen human spirits without God. They suffer from their own consciousness, being as wicked and evil as they are. As a person they are worthless, they have no value. They can do no good, all they can do is harm. Between their lies and deceit they appear to be like that of an insane person. And to think they will be like that for all of eternity - how sad.

So those without god are worthless to you, maybe you should stop trying to get their approval then.

[notforgotten]

Just as those in hell without God can drive a person mad, insane, or psychotic, so is the soul in hell destroyed, mad, insane and psychotic.

[notforgotten]

I'm sorry, did you not read me describing the eight years of training they receive studying mental disorders? Not only do they know the first thing about psychosis, they also know the second thing, the third thing, the fourth thing, the fifth thing, the sixth thing, the seventh thing, and a hundred more things about it that you don't. Their research doesn't prove that schizophrenia is caused by a brain disorder. They claim that it merely implies one. They do not know what the true cause is.

A person would be naïve to believe someone just because they have an education.

[GoldenWolf]

A person would be naïve to believe someone just because they have an education.

Especially in religion.

[Setton]

Ok, I'll play. If we assume your *ahem* interesting idea that it's all down to spirits:

I propose it is an evil tyrant who claims to be the only god dragging people into schizophrenia as an excessive punishment for breaking what he believes to be perfect rules. Other spirits then try to help them out of this by influencing scientists to come up with effective medication. These would be the ones that rebelled against your perfect god in your perfect book and lost so it takes them a long time to make progress.

My point here is, how do you prove your God is good? Without reference to a book made up specifically for that purpose.

What's that you say? He's the only God so he must be good by definition? So what about Thor, Ra, Quetzalcoatl and so on. Over history, they have at least as many 'witnesses' as those who have spoken to God/Jesus etc in their heads. Just something for you to think on; what makes you right?

[scowl]

Their research doesn't prove that schizophrenia is caused by a brain disorder. They claim that it merely implies one. They do not know what the true cause is.

So I assume that if you ever get cancer, you won't be going to any doctors. After all, they won't be able to tell you what caused the cancer therefore by your judgement their treatment cannot work.

And don't take aspirin when you have a headache. You don't know what the true cause of your headache is so aspirin can't help.

You see? Treatment does not require a cause. This is a fundamental aspect of medicine.

A person would be naïve to believe someone just because they have an education.

However when they use their education to get provable positive results, you'd be a fool not to believe them because the results prove they know what they're doing.

[notforgotten]

I propose it is an evil tyrant (I propose it's a tiny blind man that can't see the truth) who claims to be the only god dragging people into schizophrenia as an excessive punishment (it's sin that strengthens our shackles to the devil. It's faith, prayer and obedience to God that removes these shackles. God does not want us to be shacked to the devils otherwise he would not have sent his precious son for our deliverance) for breaking what he believes to be perfect rules. God does not ask too much of us. He merely ask us to be good people and not sin.

Many Christians today do not see schizophrenia as punishment, but as spiritual warfare. Edited April 26, 2013 by notforgotten