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notforgotten

The History of Schizophrenia

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That's a good slap in the face to any Schizophrenic person. To have to suffer from tortuous symptoms and then to be accused of deserving it. Shame on you.

Especially to children suffering from the disease. Who have never done a sinful thing in their lives. Shame on those who think they know the mind of god and acuse people of sins they have never committed. What's that about false witness?????

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The history of schizophrenia goes back thousands of years. Over the centuries, schizophrenics have been considered mystics, saints, possessed by evil spirits or servants of the Devil. Schizophrenia treatment in history has been as gentle as using music and as violent as resorting to ice pick surgery.

Schizophrenia Treatment: History And Evolution? http://www.tree.com/...ia-history.aspx

I believe that the American Psychiatric Association has squashed the true testimonies of millions of witnesses to God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, angels, saints in heaven as well as demons and evil spirits by their over one hundred year old lie that it's all in these peoples' heads. These are the same people that would kill people by drilling holes in their heads trying to release evil spirits. The same people that would also kill people by cutting the frontal lobe of the brain out of them. One scientist got a Nobel Peace prize for doing this. They tried insulin injections which often left people in a coma. And they would give them enough electric shock treatments at such a high voltage as to make their brains mush. Are these the people that you want to trust and believe? I believe that those poor lowly "crazy" people that have said that they've talked to God, seen angels and the devil have been telling the truth all along and it's the modern day psychiatrist that has been lying. I believe that a grave injustice have been done against these people and it's high time people knew the truth.

Hello Notforgotten.

I know this thread is 22 pages long ( I actually have been reading the whole thing) but it seems as if your opening post is your point so it seems as good a place as any to start.

Your perception of mental illness isn't a new one but I am curious why you think going back toward older practices is an ideal way to deal with mental illness in the 21st century? Even the Catholic Church who as of 1999 revised it's position on demonic possession and mental screening is now used prior to exorcisms.

You have stated in later posts that you don't blame those afflicted for their condition, since all humans sin, but you've never revealed why you think only certain persons are afflicted with demonic oppression/possession/schizophrenia? You have also not talked about the more positive side of this as you claim that mystics and saints are also schizophrenic?

I am also curious as why you only target mental illness wouldn't any horrific disease also allude to sin and demonic torture? I know this is also an old idea that people were marked by their sin with deformity and physical sickness so why are you targeting only this one area? What sins are worse so as to invoke this torment?

What led you to believe that you can speak with God's approval or authority? Are you an ordained minister or do you consider yourself to be one of the people blessed with schizophrenic mysticism and receive this information through an epiphany? If it was through an epiphany did you contact you minister/priest to understand this information, how to deliver this message and get approval to do so? Do you think that you are at odds with the orthodox view of the religion you practice?

It seems throughout your posts that you are attempting to tell people that you know what schizophrenia is and how you can cure them, so what is your track record for this? How many people a week does Jesus Christ or God using you as a vessel to spread this message cure? Ok, so maybe cure might be too strong lets say you help them find their way toward mental stability through the rejection of sin? How do you do this, is it through an outreach program, going door to door, local church, street corner preaching, internet blogs or forums? What is your method for reaching and knowing that you are making a difference (again this is with the understanding that you actually aren't doing this but that God or Jesus Christ as intercessor is working through you.) Most Biblical prophets or people called to do God's bidding were able to see results of their effort so why aren't you? If you claim that only God knows the truth of using you to help then are you sure that what you are doing is really God's will and not your own or Satan's? I mean most people would want to know what they are doing is helping rather than continue in a direction that may be causing further harm or actually turning people away from God.

Mabon.

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In recalling Einsteins quote posted earlier, "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

People, the OP had an opinion that most of us had deemed irrational, irresponsible, and down right nonsense; we've asked him to explain, justify, and prove.

We got one answer repeatedly.

Proof hasn't been provided because there is no proof to back this theory. There is only rhetoric yet the argument continues.

The chance of changing his mind is as great as his chances of changing ours... in other words, waste of time and energy.

In conclusion, I present my theory: the purpose of the OP is to bring the rational mind to a state of such frustration and irritation that it mimics the schizophrenics hallucinatory state, ie muttering to oneself, acting out physically like striking the computer, them out can be said that we are possessed by demons and being punished as non believers.

22 pages... 22 pages people. 22 pages of the same answer to every question

.

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May I ask, what is it that your friends believe?

I know many schizophrenics that swear that what they see and hear is real. Upon examination, most of these people would agree that it is mostly evil spirits. I've seen real pictures taken by a couple of diagnosed schizophrenics of the spirits they have seen. Clearly, it is not in their heads.

On the other hand, there are those schizophrenics (I believe not having given it much thought themselves) that believe what the doctors tell them, that research implies that it is a brain disorder and that they believe none of it is real.

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Posted (edited)

The Truth about Schizophrenia

Schizophrenia is temporal punishment due to sin. Although, the Catholic Church views schizophrenia as the same mental illness described by psychiatry, they would have to discern whether a person is undergoing temporal punishment on an individual basis. I believe that schizophrenia is always temporal punishment and that the church has been misled by psychiatry.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church on temporal punishment is as follows:

Temporal punishment is purification of the unhealthy attachment to creatures, which is a consequence of sin that perdues even after death. We must be purified either during our earthly life through prayer and a conversion which comes from fervent charity (love for God & neighbor), or after death in purgatory.

Every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in a state called purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the "temporal punishment" of sin. This punishment must not be conceived as kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain.

The forgiveness of sin and restoration of communion with God entail the remission of the eternal punishment of sin, but temporal punishment of sin still remains. While patiently bearing sufferings and trials of all kinds and, when the day comes, serenely facing death, the Christian must strive to accept this temporal punishment of sin as a grace. He should strive by works of mercy and charity, as well as by prayer and the various practices of penance, to put off completely the "old man" and to put on the "new man".

This is the best material I can find for the Christian who has been diagnosed with schizophrenia.

Edited by notforgotten

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The Truth about Schizophrenia

Schizophrenia is temporal punishment due to sin. Although, the Catholic Church views schizophrenia as the same mental illness described by psychiatry, they would have to discern whether a person is undergoing temporal punishment on an individual basis. I believe that schizophrenia is always temporal punishment and that the church has been misled by psychiatry.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church on temporal punishment is as follows:

Temporal punishment is purification of the unhealthy attachment to creatures, which is a consequence of sin that perdues even after death. We must be purified either during our earthly life through prayer and a conversion which comes from fervent charity (love for God & neighbor), or after death in purgatory.

Every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in a state called purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the "temporal punishment" of sin. This punishment must not be conceived as kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain.

The forgiveness of sin and restoration of communion with God entail the remission of the eternal punishment of sin, but temporal punishment of sin still remains. While patiently bearing sufferings and trials of all kinds and, when the day comes, serenely facing death, the Christian must strive to accept this temporal punishment of sin as a grace. He should strive by works of mercy and charity, as well as by prayer and the various practices of penance, to put off completely the "old man" and to put on the "new man".

This is the best material I can find for the Christian who has been diagnosed with schizophrenia.

Therein lies the problem.

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I know many schizophrenics that swear that what they see and hear is real. Upon examination, most of these people would agree that it is mostly evil spirits.

WRONG WRONG WRONG! "Evil spirits" is a rare description of what schizophrenics claim these days. The most common delusion is being conspired against by family, friends or government. Other common claims these days are satellites beaming messages into their brains. Hallucinations of a religious nature is not common at all and is yet another reason why your theory is complete hogwash.

Here's another reason. By your criteria, these other claims must also be true, since schizophrenics are not hallucinating and are entirely reliable witnesses to what they are experiencing. Why should we believe the schizophrenic who claims to be tormented by invisible spirits, yet not believe the schizophrenic who claims to be hearing inter-dimensional beings speaking to him through his dental fillings?

I've seen real pictures taken by a couple of diagnosed schizophrenics of the spirits they have seen. Clearly, it is not in their heads.

Dear, do you want us to search for "ghost pictures" on the Internet again?

On the other hand, there are those schizophrenics (I believe not having given it much thought themselves) that believe what the doctors tell them, that research implies that it is a brain disorder and that they believe none of it is real.

These are the people who get medication and most often return to functional if not normal lives.

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WRONG WRONG WRONG! "Evil spirits" is a rare description of what schizophrenics claim these days. I have many schizophrenic friends that would strongly disagree with this statement. The most common delusion is being conspired against by family, friends or government. Other common claims these days are satellites beaming messages into their brains. Hallucinations of a religious nature is not common at all and is yet another reason why your theory is complete hogwash. You have not been listening to what I've been telling you all along. The devils lie to and deceive people causing psychosis and delusions of all kinds, yet none of it is an hallucination. The psychiatrist will tell you that they do not know what truly causes schizophrenia.

Here's another reason. By your criteria, these other claims must also be true, since schizophrenics are not hallucinating and are entirely reliable witnesses to what they are experiencing. Why should we believe the schizophrenic who claims to be tormented by invisible spirits, yet not believe the schizophrenic who claims to be hearing inter-dimensional beings speaking to him through his dental fillings? Because one is being deceived by the devil and the other is not.

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22 pages... 22 pages people. 22 pages of the same answer to every question

If I gave you a different answer to the same question, then you would say that I'm contradicting myself.

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Posted (edited)

Not to disregard what some have said here, but I have had a long term "laymans" interest in severe psychiatric disorders.

There are some fascinating real-life interviews with such people on Youtube, for example, produced by the "History Channel" and other somewhat acceptable authoritative sources.

In my viewings of those interviews, I must say that I saw zero "demonic influence" beyond their own mindset.

That is, no chairs were flying around, nor any levitations during the bizzare rants of those afflicted(that I saw)

It seemed to me to be a purely human, biological dysfunction on a very hard level of those afflicted that I saw, and nothing "abnormaly spiritual" per-se.

But that's just my take on the many vids I viewed.

So no, I would not take those suffering from such an illness to be providing humanity with any "enlightenment"

Edited by pallidin
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If I gave you a different answer to the same question, then you would say that I'm contradicting myself.

Only if you actually were... and you did a few times but it doesn't matter.

The reality is you will never convince me your religious approach to the mental illness is accurate in any way and I will never get you to accept the modern day psychological approach to schizophrenia.

Of course we both have the right to believe what we want, evidence or not.

Do what you will, but harm none. - Wiccan creed

Let's just agree to disagree and amicably move on.

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Even if schizophrenics are seeing demons, wouldn't medication that prevents them from being attacked by violent spirits be a good thing?

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notforgotten,

Ok, I think I need to be a little more specific. Lol

1. What are your friends' exact beliefs?

2. How many friends do you have who are Schizophrenic?

3. Do they all share the same specific beliefs?

4. Do they use recreational drugs? If so, which ones? If so, do they feel their beliefs are enhanced?

5. Are they currently taking medication?

6. Would you say their diet is poor, fair, or good?

7. Are they working? If so, does their work involve physical activity?

And I please note that when I say "beliefs" its in the same respect as that of religious beliefs.

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Posted (edited)

notforgotten,

Ok, I think I need to be a little more specific. Lol

1. What are your friends' exact beliefs? Of all my friends that I have spoken to about it, most concur that it is not in their heads and is the devils, both human and demon alike.

2. How many friends do you have who are Schizophrenic? Over 3 dozen.

3. Do they all share the same specific beliefs? Of all the ones that I have spoke to, they share the same belief that it is real and the devil.

4. Do they use recreational drugs? . I believe that some still do. If so, which ones? I would rather not answer this question. If so, do they feel their beliefs are enhanced? I wouldn't no the answer to this question.

5. Are they currently taking medication? Most of them do not.

6. Would you say their diet is poor, fair, or good? I wouldn't have the answer to this question either. I would think that their diets could be improved on.

7. Are they working? If so, does their work involve physical activity? Most of them work and some of their work would involve physical activity.

And I please note that when I say "beliefs" its in the same respect as that of religious beliefs.

There are some drugs that are sins that will bring evil spirits into a persons life. Edited by notforgotten

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I have many schizophrenic friends that would strongly disagree with this statement.

Fine. Your schizophrenic friends are in a small minority in the schizophrenic community.

You have not been listening to what I've been telling you all along. The devils lie to and deceive people causing psychosis and delusions of all kinds, yet none of it is an hallucination.

So if a schizophrenic believes that the government is transmitting messages into their brain, then that must be a delusion because it's ridiculous.

However is a schizophrenic says they're being tormented by demonic spirits, then we must believe every word that they say.

Why? Because you say so! We're supposed to believe you're some kind of expert yet the only supporting evidence you've given for your theory is alleged pictures of ghosts you found on the Internet!

The psychiatrist will tell you that they do not know what truly causes schizophrenia.

Yes, because anyone who says they know what causes schizophrenia is a liar or an idiot. No one knows. Including you.

Here's another reason. By your criteria, these other claims must also be true, since schizophrenics are not hallucinating and are entirely reliable witnesses to what they are experiencing. Why should we believe the schizophrenic who claims to be tormented by invisible spirits, yet not believe the schizophrenic who claims to be hearing inter-dimensional beings speaking to him through his dental fillings?
Because one is being deceived by the devil and the other is not.

You don't know that. The person could be hearing inter-dimensional beings. That's no more ridiculous than the evil spirits and demonic possession explanation you've been trying to sell us.

We have no reason to believe anything you're saying. You have no evidence, just an unsupported theory which you repeat like a mindless robot.

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Posted (edited)

I thought that I would lighten things up a bit:

[media=]

[/media] Edited by notforgotten

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We have no reason to believe anything you're saying. You have no evidence, just an unsupported theory which you repeat like a mindless robot.

C'mon that's not entirely fair.

You're doing theories a disservice...

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Posted (edited)

Here is a personal and endearing song that Father God truly dedicated to me over the internet:

[media=]

[/media] Edited by notforgotten

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I'm sorry scowl, but I see you as being lost to the lies of this world.

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Posted (edited)

I'm sorry scowl, but I see you as being lost to the lies of this world.

I would strongly disagree.

Not only have I, unfortunately, developed a severe anxiety disorder, I have had personal contact with those with much more dibilitating disorders, such a schizophrenia.

In no cases have I seen ANYTHING remotely approaching a paranormal event within them.

Not saying that there can't be, rather I have not ever, ever seen it either in personal contact or interview vids.

Edited by pallidin

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I would strongly disagree.

Not only have I, unfortunately, developed a severe anxiety disorder, I have had personal contact with those with much more dibilitating disorders, such a schizophrenia.

In no cases have I seen ANYTHING remotely approaching a paranormal event within them.

Not saying that there can't be, rather I have not ever, ever seen it either in personal contact or interview vids.

Check out schizophrenia and spiritual warfare on the internet.

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Check out schizophrenia and spiritual warfare on the internet.

I DO understand where you are going with this, and, in certain rare cases I would most definitely entertain that possibility.

I guess I'm just saying that there are, IMHO, many cases of mental illness/disorder which are solely due to some type of brain/biological dysfunction.

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Posted (edited)

I DO understand where you are going with this, and, in certain rare cases I would most definitely entertain that possibility.

A glimmer of light shining through the most natural of trees. Edited by notforgotten

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A glimmer of light shining through the most natural of trees.

I have NO problem with your assertion that mental illness can be a result of supernatural influence.

My assertion is that it is not common, and most mental illness have a definitive human biological basis.

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I have NO problem with your assertion that mental illness can be a result of supernatural influence.

My assertion is that it is not common, and most mental illness have a definitive human biological basis.

I concur that there may be a biological factor to schizophrenia. It may be what's allowing the schizophrenic to experience the invisible and to be tormented by the devils.

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