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notforgotten

The History of Schizophrenia

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Making them functional means giving them the ability to hold jobs, pay bills, and take care of themselves. I would hardly describe this as "pound them back into some miserable pigeon hole." This is something that all kinds of people should be capable of.

You obviously have no idea what schizophrenia is like.

And what is this process?

And you don't know the process.

Oh boy, another one...

Condescension works both ways.

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Wow. I just read 25 pages of people bickering with an unmedicated schizophrenic. Give it up, OP is mentally ill. :/

On page 25 or so... I pressed "like" because this spared me from browsing through those 25 pages. Seems like Scowl and notforgotten are going at it.

So can anyone give some hard evidence on where schizophrenia originates from, where is it's seed from which it starts to grow, and how is that seed planted into someone? Figuratively speaking, as I doubt it's an invisible hand nor a "seed" in the meaning of plant-biology... I mentioned this in case someone takes everything literally, but because it's internet you can't always blame people for doing that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems a few things are pretty much known about schizophrenia:

- Medication doesn't work in a fair amount of cases/stages (as Texas Pete said), yet it works on many cases (as Scowl said). This begs a question, does placebo medication work. As in giving sugar pills or something without telling the patient, does it have a positive effect? Or negative one?

- Psychosis medication doesn't always remove the symptoms that are labeled as hallucinations. I say "labeled as" because I've not seen proof that they were, not that I'd have any proof for my beliefs about this either.

- Confronting yourself seems to be the key here, finding a personal point where you can accept the whole thing and put it in it's place in your worldview, in a place where it doesn't disturb you. Whether that place is "among hallucinations", or "something you dont have to do anything about because you can't", or "something you've made peace with and is in the past, not in effect anymore". Finding peace one way or another seems important, because difficulties/symptoms in the way you talk, symptoms in talking, are there in schizophrenia, and I associate those symptoms with not being in peace with something. A common effect when you get agitated in an argument or start to defend your belief more vehemently and maybe overprotectively.

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I wonder if I'm perhaps mildly schizophrenic. I hear voices. They don't say anything except my name, clear enough to get me to sit up and look around, and always in some voice I know, even though they are not present.

(A couple of times this has happened when the person was present, and when I've persisted that they said my name I've gotten puzzled looks).

I'm not particularly worried about the phenomenon, and it is rare (not more than a few times a year). I figure something in my brain generates an illusion of a sound and some other part of my brain decides it is a real sound and generates it as my name as a default. Kinda like random discharges of brain activity.

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They've discovered that brain chemistry is more complicated. They had been looking for a simple cause like dopamine overproduction but we now know that several factors are involved and there is possibly a genetic predisposition to it. Most of the discoveries involve layer upon layer of complicated neurological chemistry that they never get into the mainstream press. These new medications didn't invent themselves.

They haven't discovered much more about migraines though. Maybe they're caused by evil spirits.

"Most practicing psychiatrists feel that atypical antipsychotics may work better than the older drugs. However, the additional benefits may be modest for most patients. Large, high-quality studies have compared newer and older drugs and generally found that newer atypical antipsychotics work no better than older typical antipsychotics such as haloperidol, at least for initial treatment of first-episode schizophrenia Similarly, for treatment of children and adolescents with schizophrenia, both atypical and typical antipsychotics appear to be equally effective, but atypical antipsychotics carry a higher risk for metabolic side effects."

So, no real progress and worse side effects. Might as well try Excedrin-migraine for your next exorcism.

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The incentives for private development of psychological drugs (in fact all drugs) are screwed up and almost entirely based on what the States' does. In the meantime, public development never produces anything except fat salaries for directors. This means a lot more suffering in the world than need be.

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What would you know of truth Rlyeh?.... you believe in nothing.

More like he only believes in his own personal truth ,and insulting other people's beliefs,instead of discussing them,is all he understands .

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I consider the following to be the proper attitude for dealing with this kind of thing.

Differentiating between the pathological, and possible religious or

spiritual connotations of schizophrenia sheds light on the possible mechanisms of coping, useful in developing clinical strategies in the treatment of schizophrenia. While many studies have focused on the nature and treatment of auditory hallucinations within modalities such as cognitive-behavioral therapy and/or psychiatric interventions, these modalities aim at eliminating the auditory hallucinations in patients with schizophrenia, perceiving them as a pathological symptom. Research has also been undertaken in understanding the cultural and religious components of schizophrenia, as well as how religion and spirituality have been incorporated in the coping mechanisms of this population (Lukoff, 2007). However, there appears to be very little research on how auditory hallucinations themselves may be incorporated in the recovery process, in the development of new meaning and purpose as one grows beyond the catastrophe of mental illness (Anthony, 1993). It also implies that the individual may not necessarily be cured or be symptom free.

A Jungian Approach to Psychosis: Auditory Hallucinations in Schizophrenia: Collaborating with the Voices from Without

Conclusion

Extensive research has been undertaken with respect to auditory hallucinations within psychiatric populations (e.g.: schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder, dementia, etc). In the same vein, there has been some research conducted with non-psychiatric populations, thereby indicating that auditory hallucinations are not necessarily a pathological phenomena, but part of the human experience..."

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Posted (edited)

I wonder if I'm perhaps mildly schizophenic. I hear voices. The voices are spirits.

They don't say anything except my name, Both good and evil spirits call out people's names. Angels are well known for calling out people's names.

clear enough to get me to sit up and look around, Making the reality of it all the more real!

and always in some voice I know, It's by the powers of the angels, demons and both God and Jesus that bring known spirits into our lives. If it is a good spirit with God, then it is generally considered a call to grace and salvation - a call to God.

even though they are not present. They appear not to be present because they are in the invisible spirit world.

(A couple of times this has happened when the person was present, and when I've persisted that they said my name I've gotten puzzled looks). Sometimes spirits will use another persons voice to talk to you. Demons often times do this, very cleverly masquerading [deceiving] as someone else.

I'm not particularly worried about the phenomenon, and it is rare (not more than a few times a year). I figure something in my brain generates an illusion of a sound and some other part of my brain decides it is a real sound and generates it as my name as a default. Kinda like random discharges of brain activity.

The truth is that you are a witness to the invisible spirit world. Edited by notforgotten

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Maybe, but if so they don't tell me anything of any use, so it seems pointless. My theory strikes me as more likely.

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Maybe, but if so they don't tell me anything of any use, so it seems pointless. My theory strikes me as more likely.

Nope is MUST be spirits calling out your name. They must have nothing better to do than mess with you :tu:

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"Can't we all just get along?" - Rodney King

As for shizophrenia, and other diagnoses which can result in psychotic states (bi-polar disorder, PTSD, fugue states, etc.)-- Paddy Chaefsky, novelist and screenwriter of Altered States (made into a 1981 film starring William Hurt as an obsessed researcher into internal mental states, using an isolation tank and powerful drugs distilled from magic Mexican mushrooms) has his hero declare, about schizophrenia, "I'm not even sure it's a disease."

There is a long, although somewhat underground or marginalized, history of approaching mental illness not as demonic possession, the result of witchcraft, or even of detectable brain pathology. Rather, some consider the journey of so-called mental illness as a spiritual one; a coming-to-grips with powers, whether internal or external, beyond our control--so we make bizarre adjustments. The research psychiatrist R.D. Laing pioneered some of this work in the 1960's, with much more gravitas than the playful. trippy Dr. Timothy Leary. Oliver Sacks, M.D. has done more recent work in this arena, identifying sets of behavior as having roots in brain chemistry which probably would never show up in the gross anatomy of an autopsy.

All of which is to say, to all comers and goers: Just because the physicians/psychiatrists call it a disease doesn't make it necessarily so. "There are more things under heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio."--Bill Shakespeare

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You know, you could call stress a disease too because it can be harmful to you, very much so in too large and prolonged lenghts. But stress can give you extra provess, make you more disciplined and let you push yourself harder than what you would without it. Has it's uses I say, situational. Maybe we've just not yet discovered or accepted the other side of the schizophrenia coin, shouldn't expect it to have only one side.

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Mikko, my Finsk brother, you said in a couple of sentences what I intended to say--but it took me much longer. Suomi-sisu!

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There is a long, although somewhat underground or marginalized, history of approaching mental illness not as demonic possession, the result of witchcraft, or even of detectable brain pathology. Rather, some consider the journey of so-called mental illness as a spiritual one; a coming-to-grips with powers, whether internal or external, beyond our control--so we make bizarre adjustments.

Which can include sleeping in streets and eating out of garbage cans.

I think if people had to deal with schizophrenics coming off the streets for nine months many would have a different view of it.

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Scowl,--you are of course accurate in your concern. My post was meant to suggest that the psychological aspects of various mental illnesses may be as much a spiritual as a chemical journey.

How's Portland these days? My brother lived there for 12 years, and I loved visiting him.

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My thoughts(which may not be correct) are that mental illness in general, and schizophrenia in particular, exact a heavy toll on both the sufferer and society.

Pharmocological intervention, usually by way of heavy sedation through CNS depressants, and the wide spectrum of anti-psychotics in use these days, seems to reasonably address the issue for some sufferers, yet making it worse for others.

In other words, this does not appear to be an exact science by any means.

Just spouting-out some thoughts on the subject...

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I think in view of the symptoms we see that it is best we consider it a disease and search for medical treatment. This is vastly better than seeing it as a spiritual matter, since this leads to conclusions of inherent evil impulses and destructive forces and so on.

That said, some illnesses need treatment, others are better just tolerated. I have hay fever but generally just live with it rather than take the stupefying relief drugs medicine offers. I also sometimes hear voices and have visions, and I interpret them as mild schizophrenia, but would rather not take treatment so long as my reality circuits are functioning and I don't start going off the deep end with wild interpretations of the phenomena.

I've also been depressed and close to suicide in my life. For this I take medication -- the disease is way too dangerous as it expresses itself in me to leave it untreated. No amount of talk therapy, popular in the States but not much practiced in Vietnam, has ever been of any help.

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I think in view of the symptoms we see that it is best we consider it a disease and search for medical treatment. This is vastly better than seeing it as a spiritual matter, since this leads to conclusions of inherent evil impulses and destructive forces and so on.

That said, some illnesses need treatment, others are better just tolerated. I have hay fever but generally just live with it rather than take the stupefying relief drugs medicine offers. I also sometimes hear voices and have visions, and I interpret them as mild schizophrenia, but would rather not take treatment so long as my reality circuits are functioning and I don't start going off the deep end with wild interpretations of the phenomena.

I've also been depressed and close to suicide in my life. For this I take medication -- the disease is way too dangerous as it expresses itself in me to leave it untreated. No amount of talk therapy, popular in the States but not much practiced in Vietnam, has ever been of any help.

While I suggest that shizophrenia (and other mental illnesses) may be as much a spiritual as a brain chemistry journey, I do not at all suggest that those so diagnosed may be in need of spiritual repair, religious intervention, etc. I mean only that "working through" (which means different things to different people) the illness as one would any other llness--a journey which stretches our physical, psychological, emotional and metaphysical/paranormal components--might be helpful.

I have been diagnosed as bi-polar for 25 years, and have had a few instances of suicidal ideation and self-harm. I've heard and seen a couple of things that others would say were never there. I have a brother who dismisses me by saying my "memory is so good that I remember things that never happened." The 'reality' is that I recall traumatic family events and abuse perpetrated on me that he, and others, "forget--" in fact, they deny, suppress and lie. I have needed those memories to help me navigate my present and future--regardless of others' inability to accept the truth. It is this kind of journey of which I speak.

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Scowl,--you are of course accurate in your concern. My post was meant to suggest that the psychological aspects of various mental illnesses may be as much a spiritual as a chemical journey.

I saw nothing "spiritual" about college students who months before were living normal lives and had been excited about their futures suddenly being unable to think and function in school. I saw nothing "spiritual" about people who had been living on the streets for years because schizophrenia had disabled their ability to hold jobs or function socially. These were some of the saddest things I've ever seen in my life.

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I saw nothing "spiritual" about college students who months before were living normal lives and had been excited about their futures suddenly being unable to think and function in school. I saw nothing "spiritual" about people who had been living on the streets for years because schizophrenia had disabled their ability to hold jobs or function socially. These were some of the saddest things I've ever seen in my life.

You and I simply disagree about the meaning of the word "spiritual." Reviving an ability to seek knowledge and/or restoring one to gainful employment are exactly the kinds of things (not the only things) I refer to when I refer to "spiritual"--the restoration of satisfying life-lunctioning.

We're saying the same thing in different terms.

Why scowl so much? You live in a beautiful city, more human-friendly than most.

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Posted (edited)

Are these the people that you want to trust and believe? I believe that those poor lowly "crazy" people that have said that they've talked to God, seen angels and the devil have been telling the truth all along and it's the modern day psychiatrist that has been lying. I believe that a grave injustice have been done against these people and it's high time people knew the truth.

But then you seems to ignore what the symptoms of Schizophrenia are: Hallucinations, commanding voices, delusions, difficulties to discern what is real or unreal ect.

As you said, there was no proper diagnostic and treatments at that time for those people stricken by this mental heatlh desease. Medical science through researches evolved and now patients get treaments that allows them to maintain a stable mental health condition. Unfortunately there is cure for it.

I think it's fair to say that in the remote past, people were stricken as well by Schizophrenia and simply didn't know it. Some had all kind of strange visions and hallucinations and thought it was mystic. Today we know that this is due in most cases to mental instabillity. I am not saying that mystical phenomena never occured in history but that in my opinion with the knowledge we have today through medical reasearches most cases can be treated as a mental heatlh desease.

Edited by sam_comm
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You and I simply disagree about the meaning of the word "spiritual." Reviving an ability to seek knowledge and/or restoring one to gainful employment are exactly the kinds of things (not the only things) I refer to when I refer to "spiritual"--the restoration of satisfying life-lunctioning.

You think finding the proper medication is a spiritual activity? You think job interviews are a spiritual activity?

We're saying the same thing in different terms.

You're misusing the word "spiritual".

Why scowl so much? You live in a beautiful city, more human-friendly than most.

Do you have trouble staying on topic?

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Posted (edited)

You think finding the proper medication is a spiritual activity? You think job interviews are a spiritual activity?

You're misusing the word "spiritual".

Do you have trouble staying on topic?

1. Yes and yes, as those are parts of one's individual life journey.

2. No, I am using it, as I've already described, in an acceptable manner that happens to lie outside of the rigid, categorical understanding of the word you accept. Language is flexible and expansive, and not contained within the limits of your opinion. "Misusing?" Unless you are the Vicar of Vocabulary, the Emperor of Erudition, or--perhaps--

some parent, teacher, fellow student, friend or enemy hammered you so much with the word that you've grown not only to hate and misunderstand it, but to deny anyone else's right to use it except in a context comfortable to you, stay on topic.

2. No.

Loosen up!

Edited by szentgyorgy

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Loosen up!

Like me, I'm finding myself in bed with a differant female spirit 2-3 times a month when I sleep. LOL

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