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Mentalcase

Gun Control Will not work!

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Posted (edited)

The government agenda is to make all of us so eager to give up our right to bear arms that we will demand it. Doh. Do not be willing to give up your right to protect yourselves, folks. Taking guns away from law-abiding people only makes everyone more vulnerable. Criminals always find a way to get weapons. If they can't shoot us, they will use a knife. If they can't get a knife, they will use rocks and sticks. Stand up, speak up, and don't let the Bill of Rights go away.

Edited by moonshadow60
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That is a damn good speech.

She hit all the major Facts that rifle gun control is stupid, and will not affect violence or overal deaths more then a fraction of 1%.

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Mexico has strict gun control. I strongly suspect that similar laws in the US would have a very similar result.

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Just don't be shocked or go looking for condolences when​ the next massacre occurs. Fair enough you want to be able to own a gun, but there should be checks and balances on people owning them. Convicted violent criminals, mentally unstable and other people deemed a risk to themselves and/or others should be restricted from owning them. Gun control is not about denying everyone's access to all guns it's about limiting the access to guns for people deemed unfit to own them.

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Convicted violent criminals, mentally unstable and other people deemed a risk to themselves and/or others should be restricted from owning them. Gun control is not about denying everyone's access to all guns it's about limiting the access to guns for people deemed unfit to own them.

Have you BOUGHT a gun lately?? Violent criminals and the mentally unstable are NOT allowed to buy a gun. It's called a background check. And we ALREADY have them.

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Have you BOUGHT a gun lately?? Violent criminals and the mentally unstable are NOT allowed to buy a gun. It's called a background check. And we ALREADY have them.

If you already have them, then why are people so uptight about universal background checks?

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Have you BOUGHT a gun lately?? Violent criminals and the mentally unstable are NOT allowed to buy a gun. It's called a background check. And we ALREADY have them.

Not being from the US I don't know what kind of checks are actually done. Is there a standard level or does it vary from state to state? I know it varies on what guns you can buy state to state, and if you can carry a concealed weapon, but are checks done differently too?

I guess what I am asking is, is it easier to get guns in certain states than others? And if so, how does their gun crime vary to others?

I realise that most gun crime is not done by legal responsilble owners, just wondered if its easier to get them, maybe people are less careful with them and they are easily stolen by criminals?

If gun crime doesn't vary much, then I guess any differences in background checks could not be blamed?

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Terms:

4473 - The form you fill out to purchase a firearm from a dealer.

NICS - "Nicks", it is a FBI instant background check based off of a crime database.

AOW - Any other Weapon (Most commonly a pistol grip shotgun)

Foreward:

First off, there is no "Gun show loophole". The dealers present at the gun show are required to process a 4473 form for the transfer of the firearm. It is no different than buying from a walk-in store. There is a background check.

It is legal to purchase, own, and possess items such as machine guns, suppressors, destructive devices, short barrel rifles, short barrel shotguns, and AOWs so long as they are legally possessed in accordance to Federal Law. For more info on how to purchase these items legally, see this FAQ: http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/c...n-aow-sbr.html

The penal code surrounding Texas firearm possession and commerce is Chapter 46 - Weapons: Penal Code

FFL Dealer (Gun Shop)

Required Items

- Texas Driver's License (Valid! Current Address, Not Expired)

- Qualification to Possess a Firearm (See Above)

- 18 Years of Age for a Long Gun (Rifle or Shotgun)

- 21 Years of Age for a Handgun or Pistol Grip Shotgun (AOW)

Once you've picked out your gun you'll be asked to fill out the 4473 form. At this time you will present your Texas driver's license so that the information can be recorded onto the 2nd page of the 4473 by the salesman. Once you've finished filling out the 4473 the salesman will then call it in for the NICS check. This is a short, routine, phone call that is required to transfer the firearm from the dealer's books. At the end of the phone call the salesman will be directed one of three ways:

1.) Proceed - Everything is good to go, and the firearm can be transferred to the purchaser.

2.) Delayed - This is fairly common and can mean one of a million things. You might have had a similar name to someone not eligible, similar description, credit holds (lost / stolen credit cards), etc. They even do it at random. By law, the firearm can be transferred within 3 business days (government business days) if the NICS examiner does not call back.

3.) Denied - This occurs because you've been flagged as a possibly uneligible purchaser of the firearm. Sometimes ex-felons and people who've only recently become eligible will be denied, and they are able to challenge the denial. Generally the dealer will have paperwork outlining the process for challenging the NICS ruling.

There is no waiting period in Texas. Once you've recieved a proceed or the delayed time frame has elapsed you are free to walk out the door with your gun.

If you hold a Texas Concealed Handgun License (CHL) you can present that as proof that you can legally own the firearm, and a NICS check does not have to be performed. You still have to fill out the 4473 form.

Face to Face Purchase (FTF)

Face to face transactions are legal in Texas so long as it is not a Class III item such as a machine gun, suppressor, short barrel rifle, etc. Items of that nature require a tax stamp and ATF paperwork.

Texas law only mandates you to not knowingly sell a firearm to someone whom cannot legally possess the firearm. The seller is not responsible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the eligibilty of the purchaser.

If you are from out of state it is illegal to purchase a firearm in the state of Texas from a Texas resident in a face to face transfer. This is engaging in innerstate commerce and requires an FFL (Federal Firearms License).

There are no requirements for record keeping in regards to firearms sales.

If you are unsure what the eligibility requirements are for the state of Texas please read Texas Penal Code Chapter 46.

Now, this is in MY state. Some states have stricter background check and laws. Now Connecticut Gun Laws are slightly more stricter:

Connecticut is one those states in the US that doesn’t have a very gun-friendly laws. This is why guns for sale require a procedure in Connecticut. Although no permit is required to purchase a shotgun or rifle but during the sale, the buyer is required to complete the Federal form 4473 (yellow, two-page form) and State Form DPS-67-C (Application to Purchase). Most importantly, the buyer and seller will wait for two weeks before the sale or delivery of the rifle or shotgun takes place. However the waiting period and completion of application does not apply on law enforcement officers, active duty military personnel, and holders of a valid state permit to carry a handgun. In addition, holders of a valid hunting license or antique firearms do not need to wait either. The two week waiting period exists so that Special License and Firearms Unit and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms can conduct complete research on the buyer. Also in case of second sales between non-licensed dealers, no paperwork or notification is required. But it is strongly recommended that all firearms should be voluntarily registered. When the SLFU and ATF approves of the sale of the firearm for a particular buyer then the final step to complete the sale transaction process is to fill State Form DPS-3-C (Sale or Transfer) so that the firearm can be legally be delivered to the buyer.

For the sale of the handgun, a DPS-67-C and a DPS-3-C (4 copies) must be completed. Also a permit to purchase and carry a handgun is required by a person planning to buy a handgun in Connecticut.

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That is a damn good speech.

I’m in love :yes:

She hit all the major Facts that rifle gun control is stupid, and will not affect violence or overal deaths more then a fraction of 1%.

The other thing I would ask is that if this legislation becomes law and it fails in the next few months (which it will), what will they do? Confront them with the question, is this 1% of making it harder to gun down our children worth the damage being done to the Constitution?

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Just don't be shocked or go looking for condolences when​ the next massacre occurs.

For many of us, this is what we are expecting to see from those that have been sold a bill of goods in believing that this legislation will prevent it.

Fair enough you want to be able to own a gun, but there should be checks and balances on people owning them.

We already have laws on the books covering this.

Convicted violent criminals, mentally unstable and other people deemed a risk to themselves and/or others should be restricted from owning them.

Gun control will not prevent this group from getting firearms. Only the really stupid will be prevented. Do you really think that criminals buy their guns? If they buy guns then why should they steal cars?

Gun control is not about denying everyone's access to all guns it's about limiting the access to guns for people deemed unfit to own them.

Actually, Gun Control *IS* about denying our 2nd Amendment Rights. This latest legislation will allow doctors to make arbitrary, subjective decisions on the mental state of individuals that will prevent them from ever owning a gun. We all have stress in our lives. We all have personal tragedies that we live through. For 99%, all we need to do is talk it out (usually with a doctor). Only that 1% snap. But under this legislation, if you go through a divorce and relay your feeling to a doctor that you “just want to end it all”, he’ll be required to report. Again, most of us that have gone through a divorce have felt this way but we get over it and move on but once you are on a government list as being mentally defective, you’ll never be allowed to own a gun unless you steal it or acquire it by other means.

This is either a disconnect between the people and the ruling elite or it is a deliberate master plan to gut the 2nd Amendment.

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BTW, anybody know her name?

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Gun control will not prevent this group from getting firearms.

If gun control will not prevent people from getting guns, why are people worried that they wont have guns to fight off a tyrant government if there's gun control?

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If gun control will not prevent people from getting guns, why are people worried that they wont have guns to fight off a tyrant government if there's gun control?

It won’t but law abiding gun owners shouldn’t have to be reduced to this to protect their Constitutional Rights. We The People cannot allow the Ruling Elite to usurp our power with the paper trail.

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Nailed it! Good job!

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It won’t but law abiding gun owners shouldn’t have to be reduced to this to protect their Constitutional Rights. We The People cannot allow the Ruling Elite to usurp our power with the paper trail.

Good. Then it's settled. That argument can no longer be used as a viable argument against gun control then.

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If gun control will not prevent people from getting guns, why are people worried that they wont have guns to fight off a tyrant government if there's gun control?

Your first sentence should read: If gun control will not prevent criminals from getting guns...

Because most Americans, believe it or not, don't want to be a criminal. They want to own their guns legally. Why should they have to choose between not owning a gun or being a criminal? That may work in other countries where they don't have, and may never have had, the right to bear arms but it won't work in this country. The US wouldn't be a country if the colonists hadn't had their own arms. It is a key part of our heritage.

And before anyone suggests that an armed populace is no match for an army remember that very few people thought the colonists stood a chance against the strongest empire on earth at the time. They were wrong then and are wrong now.

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Good. Then it's settled. That argument can no longer be used as a viable argument against gun control then.

No, it’s not settled. The government is trying to do something it is not suppose to do. Go where it is not welcome. The people shouldn’t have to tolerate even the attempt. Just because it is doomed to succeed, the government shouldn’t even try it. To do so just shows the disconnect the government has with the people.

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Your first sentence should read: If gun control will not prevent criminals from getting guns...

Because most Americans, believe it or not, don't want to be a criminal. They want to own their guns legally. Why should they have to choose between not owning a gun or being a criminal? That may work in other countries where they don't have, and may never have had, the right to bear arms but it won't work in this country. The US wouldn't be a country if the colonists hadn't had their own arms. It is a key part of our heritage.

And before anyone suggests that an armed populace is no match for an army remember that very few people thought the colonists stood a chance against the strongest empire on earth at the time. They were wrong then and are wrong now.

If the government turns into a tyranny which motivates you to fight them, will it matter to you what the government calls you? Are you proposing that no those who would otherwise fight in a civil war against a tyrannical government would be prevented from fighting because they don't want to be called a criminal for obtaining a gun? (Despite the fact that they were going to be called a criminal anyway for fighting said supposed government)?

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No, it’s not settled. The government is trying to do something it is not suppose to do. Go where it is not welcome. The people shouldn’t have to tolerate even the attempt. Just because it is doomed to succeed, the government shouldn’t even try it. To do so just shows the disconnect the government has with the people.

I'm saying that specific line of argument is settled. You can't on one hand claim that gun control won't work because people will always be able to criminally obtain weapons, and then on the other hand tell people that they are against gun control because they won't have guns to fight the government of it becomes tyrannical.

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I'm saying that specific line of argument is settled. You can't on one hand claim that gun control won't work because people will always be able to criminally obtain weapons, and then on the other hand tell people that they are against gun control because they won't have guns to fight the government of it becomes tyrannical.

I think he meant CRIMINALS will always have guns, regardless of if they are legal or not. And if guns are illegal, then supposedly the honest law abiding citizens will not have them to resist tyranny with.

I suppose there is some truth that even if guns are outlawed and enforced, and all guns are gone, then the average citizen, if it comes to tyranny will likely still be able to go to the black market and get guns to resist with. Even the French under the Nazis had guns to resist with.

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Posted (edited)

If gun control will not prevent people from getting guns, why are people worried that they wont have guns to fight off a tyrant government if there's gun control?

If the government turns into a tyranny which motivates you to fight them, will it matter to you what the government calls you? Are you proposing that no those who would otherwise fight in a civil war against a tyrannical government would be prevented from fighting because they don't want to be called a criminal for obtaining a gun? (Despite the fact that they were going to be called a criminal anyway for fighting said supposed government)?

Jesus man! In the event of a revolution then no I wouldn't care what the rules are but in the meantime we don't want to be criminals and resort to seedy dealings with gun smugglers.

You've been reaching and reaching and reaching for some amazing gotcha moment on these gun threads. You're sort of clever and you get credit for effort but you do know you're never going to have that moment, right?

Edited by -Mr_Fess-
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I dont think gun control will work.

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I think he meant CRIMINALS will always have guns, regardless of if they are legal or not. And if guns are illegal, then supposedly the honest law abiding citizens will not have them to resist tyranny with.

I suppose there is some truth that even if guns are outlawed and enforced, and all guns are gone, then the average citizen, if it comes to tyranny will likely still be able to go to the black market and get guns to resist with. Even the French under the Nazis had guns to resist with.

But, if the criminals can still get guns, why cant the "honest law abiding citizen" then get a gun if it come to resisting tyranny? That's what I'm getting at.

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Good. Then it's settled. That argument can no longer be used as a viable argument against gun control then.

Wish there was a way everyone could dislike your comments on here. Then you would know where you stand.

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