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Saru

Hawking: 'Big Bang did not need God'

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Stephen Hawking spoke about the formation of the cosmos to a packed house at Caltech on Tuesday.

After giving a brief historical background on relativistic physics and cosmology, Hawking discussed the idea of a repeating Big Bang. He noted that in the 1980s, he and physicist Roger Penrose proved the universe could not “bounce” when it contracted, as had been theorized.

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Big Bang theory has about as much evidence of existence as God.

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Nothing in the universe is infinite, neither the universe itself nor the matter that it is made from. Where then did the matter come from that exploded, (the big bang), to form the universe? Even if you postulate that there were previous universes that collapsed in on themselves and exploded into new universes there still had to be universe number one - how did that one come to be? Science can't answer that question but religion can. God is the only explanation that makes sense.

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How does God make sense in any way shape or form? Your argument is ridiculous, its the same one as for the big bang theory, who or what made God?

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Nothing in the universe is infinite, neither the universe itself nor the matter that it is made from. Where then did the matter come from that exploded, (the big bang), to form the universe? Even if you postulate that there were previous universes that collapsed in on themselves and exploded into new universes there still had to be universe number one - how did that one come to be? Science can't answer that question but religion can. God is the only explanation that makes sense.

"God did it" is not an answer, and when you misunderstand the subject as much as you do above, of course "God did it" makes more sense.

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Nothing in the universe is infinite, neither the universe itself nor the matter that it is made from. Where then did the matter come from that exploded, (the big bang), to form the universe? Even if you postulate that there were previous universes that collapsed in on themselves and exploded into new universes there still had to be universe number one - how did that one come to be? Science can't answer that question but religion can. God is the only explanation that makes sense.

Personally, am on the fence when it comes to God (though am a firm believer in the afterlife) but you are right, science can't answer that question. So they guess and people take it as gospel. When religion makes its best guess, it's treated as pulling something out of thin air.

Science and religion are, ironically, quite similar in the way they operate and try to answer questions about the world we live in.

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Such theories do not meet the principles of Scientific proof. Its just guessing no matter how many times, or how many people repeat it. You take math, create formulas, then insist those math formulas "prove" something?

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I don't think any of you people have even bothered to find out what evidence for the big bang there might be. It is now one of the better established facts of cosmology, successfully predicting dozens of features of the universe, and some blowhard says there is no evidence. What rank arrogance!

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Posted (edited)

Since when has Stephen Hawking become the god of 'all knowing'? Why do we gasp & listen to a mere human like us that appears to have superior knowledge over all? Of course we all know that he has been suffering a debilitating disease for many years & is still a survivor,but also,he has made statements before, supporting God,& much later,taking it back.It also demonstrates his mental faculties could be in somewhat of a disarray,sorry to say.The ability to study & explore physics in depth does not make the individual a superior thinker. Just like in world politics & some religious cults,the followers are blinded by a player playing a game that makes his thoughts appear above & superior,governing the sensibilities & logic of the numbers. It's his theories,like many others.Explore your own theoretical evaluations.Think for yourself about the whole big picture.Make your own theoretical thoughts about life,it's beginning,God,the universe etc.Discuss it with your friends & see what they think.It would be so entertaining to hear what everyone else thinks & theorizes about.In the end,it's all theory.In all,none of us has the ability to prove it in all practicality.We also were not there!Only God was.Think about the emptiness & nothingness before the theorized big bang..Daunting isn't it?! But,all this is in regards to a material physical existence.The material creation of atoms,molecules & a physical realm.So,before the theorized big bang,was only what we would & could have theorized as a spiritual realm. Different dimensions that we also have yet to explore & study.And how do we do that?Only God knows.

Edited by GirlfromOz
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Dare I suggest ... where probabilities near the infinite, therein you find the miraculous, God. Might we describe God as The mathematician. And, we should not forget, we also have Stephen Hawking the man. An individual who has had to cope with the enormous burden of ALS for over fifty years. The probability of survival with ALS beyond even ten years is but a few percent. Is he not a witness to the miraculous.

l

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Hawking has good support, excellent doctors and no doubt a strong will. Hawking is not the issue, however. He made the point that the big bang happened and that it didn't need God. He is correct, and there is abundant evidence for anyone who is willing to look. I did a quick Google search on "evidence for the big bang" and found plenty of sites that explain it all, not just what happened but how we know that is what happened.

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The laws of physics just magically coalesced and wrote themselves into existence soon after the big bang I guess.

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Since when has Stephen Hawking become the god of 'all knowing'?

He never has, he is a scientist.
Why do we gasp & listen to a mere human like us that appears to have superior knowledge over all?
I wonder the same thing after see people rushing to defend archaic deities dreamt up by primitive humans.
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Leave it to Hawking to spark a fn Creationism vs Evolution arguement on the internet. I wonder how many more website-riot's he has turned loose on the interwebs,jeez.

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Why do people even bother discussing this anymore?

You cant prove either side definitively and therefore its a moot argument, a complete waste of time.

The fact that Hawking is even mentioning it saddens me because it just shows hes out of original material and is now just trying to stay in the news.

I believe in God.

Thats my choice, i cant prove a god exists, i just believe it makes more sense. to me.

I have ZERO ill will towards anyone who doesnt believe in god. I cant prove that they are wrong either.

Its why they call it faith.

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Hawking draws his conclusions about the Universe based upon his analysis of data and equations. So we have to assume the data is accurate and the equations have a solid foundation. What if the system of physics currently in use is flawed? Sure, the physics works in many cases, but it does not work in all cases. For example, the calculation of impedance and other values requires the invention of the non-existent square root of negative one, the imaginary number. And even then, the calculation comes close only for a limited range of values.

I have found a possible source for the imaginary number. It is the result of choosing the wrong notation for charge in equations. If charge is notated as a distributed quantity (squared) relative to a single dimension of mass, then it is easy to unify the fundamental forces using Newtonian type equations.

[www,unified-force-theory.com]

Using a system of physics based upon distributed charge also gives rise to several new and important physical constants. One such constant of interest to this discussion is the Gforce constant, which is a unit of reciprocal force. All the fundamental forces share the Gforce as a common denominator. The Gforce can be interpreted as a fingerprint of God on the Universe. It is the heartbeat of the Universe that sets the metronome of time into action. It gives us the speed limit of photons and it drives the creation of matter.

People need to question Stephen Hawking and the flaws of the science he relies on before drawing conclusions about the nature of the Universe. Such ignorant statements that he makes could become the basis of a new religion, which is just as destructive as any his statements might aim to replace.

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Hawking draws his conclusions about the Universe based upon his analysis of data and equations. So we have to assume the data is accurate and the equations have a solid foundation. What if the system of physics currently in use is flawed? Sure, the physics works in many cases, but it does not work in all cases. For example, the calculation of impedance and other values requires the invention of the non-existent square root of negative one, the imaginary number. And even then, the calculation comes close only for a limited range of values.

I have found a possible source for the imaginary number. It is the result of choosing the wrong notation for charge in equations. If charge is notated as a distributed quantity (squared) relative to a single dimension of mass, then it is easy to unify the fundamental forces using Newtonian type equations.

[www,unified-force-theory.com]

Using a system of physics based upon distributed charge also gives rise to several new and important physical constants. One such constant of interest to this discussion is the Gforce constant, which is a unit of reciprocal force. All the fundamental forces share the Gforce as a common denominator. The Gforce can be interpreted as a fingerprint of God on the Universe. It is the heartbeat of the Universe that sets the metronome of time into action. It gives us the speed limit of photons and it drives the creation of matter.

People need to question Stephen Hawking and the flaws of the science he relies on before drawing conclusions about the nature of the Universe. Such ignorant statements that he makes could become the basis of a new religion, which is just as destructive as any his statements might aim to replace.

This has to be one of the better post ive seen in a long time... well thought out and laid out... You sir, get a thumbs up! lol.

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Dare I suggest ... where probabilities near the infinite, therein you find the miraculous, God. Might we describe God as The mathematician. And, we should not forget, we also have Stephen Hawking the man. An individual who has had to cope with the enormous burden of ALS for over fifty years. The probability of survival with ALS beyond even ten years is but a few percent. Is he not a witness to the miraculous.

l

Yet he seems to scoff at it. Oh well, his choice and welcome to it. I wonder if he is grateful for the gifts he has though...

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Why do people even bother discussing this anymore?

You cant prove either side definitively and therefore its a moot argument, a complete waste of time.

The fact that Hawking is even mentioning it saddens me because it just shows hes out of original material and is now just trying to stay in the news.

I believe in God.

Thats my choice, i cant prove a god exists, i just believe it makes more sense. to me.

I have ZERO ill will towards anyone who doesnt believe in god. I cant prove that they are wrong either.

Its why they call it faith.

Its very interesting to discuss nonetheless, as long as it remains that, just a discussion. However, who knows what wonders the development of the human race and our understanding of the universe can show us in the future.

I follow no faith myself, but i do enjoy the history of religions, why they came to be, understanding the cultures that they originated in and the development they have went through from their early beginnings to modern day. There are many people on here who have a great amount of knowledge on the subject and are extremely interesting to learn from.

With regards to Hawking, thats just his opinion given his understanding. Just as you also have your opinion given your understanding. As do we all. Sure its something he has brought up before but the media latch onto things as we all know.

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Hawking draws his conclusions about the Universe based upon his analysis of data and equations. So we have to assume the data is accurate and the equations have a solid foundation. What if the system of physics currently in use is flawed? Sure, the physics works in many cases, but it does not work in all cases. For example, the calculation of impedance and other values requires the invention of the non-existent square root of negative one, the imaginary number. And even then, the calculation comes close only for a limited range of values.

Imaginary numbers are not really mysterious, and they come about very naturally from pure mathematics. They are not connected to any single physical degree of freedom (like charge).

The Gforce can be interpreted as a fingerprint of God on the Universe.

It could, but it probably shouldn't; any more than the fine structure constant, the various Planck scales, the speed of light, etc. should be interpreted as a ``fingerprint of God''.

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The laws of physics just magically coalesced and wrote themselves into existence soon after the big bang I guess.

No. Law of physics have to exist before the big bang. It didn't just expanded by itself without a trigger.

Maybe the big bang didn't even happen at all. We're still inside the big bang...

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No. Law of physics have to exist before the big bang. It didn't just expanded by itself without a trigger.

Speaking as a physicist, I'm not sure that has to be true.

Do the laws of physics (and math, and logic, etc.) exist outside our Universe?

They could, but I'm not sure that they have to.

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Well, neither can prove if there is a god or even many gods, higher entities, demons, angels or whatever. I fully agree with 'Capt Amerika' on this.

But there is some kind of feeling..., a pattern if you will..., everywhere around, and I can't believe that all this is just coincidence.

I think that someone (or something, or even more than one) have planned and written the programe of this (and maybe many more) universe(s).

I can't believe that all this is for nothing and senseless, it just cannot be.

All the world's a stage, everyone is an actor... and there are some who watch all this, may be directing it.

It may even be that all of us can climb the evolutionary ladder and become one of them ourselves (just an idea, don't want to be blasphemous).

But now to something more real. We should take Hawking serious when he urges mankind to travel into space. He is absolutely right!

I think this is what humans should do as quick as possible. Waiting another 1000 years is surely too late I'm afraid.

7bn souls roam this earth and continue to grow further. There is urgent need for a ventile, spreading ourselves to the stars.

That's the destiny for mankind. Either this or face extinction very soon.

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Posted (edited)

The Big-Bang IS God, along with everything else that is and isn't (matter / anti-matter, dark energy / light energy, and all that stuff). Let's keep it simple. God is the Universe. There is only one God. There is only one Universe. Include all those Multiverses in the one Universe - by definition: UNI - verse. Next! So, the next question that follows is: Was the Big Bang the creation of our Sun, or the Universe (as we currently and physically perceive it, according to all generally accepted and established laws of human scientific endeavor, i.e. according to the current hierarchical structure of the High Priests of Earthly Science.), or both, i.e. do we live at the tunnel-ending of a black hole, thereby speeding up our conscious perceptions, very slowly at first, then, picking up speed? And, finally (thank God - I can take just so much of this BS,) how does using the red shift as a standard for orientation work for the condition of space curved by black holes and dark matter, especially when those condensed charge clusters just come and go as they please, all "willy-nilly" (with all due respect to Mr. Rumsfeld?) I mean, hit a few of those babies when they expand out in space and you got yourself a navigation issue if you're just trying to use the assumed straight lines and dead reckoning of red shift. Not to worry. Google has it all worked out already. juan miguel d'honkie-gringo miranda, Certified 9th Degree Wacko Philosopher-Charlatan

Edited by juandegringo
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