Hawking: 'Big Bang did not need God'

[shrooma]

So you say poor imagination. You must know a better solution and imagination. Enlighten me

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if I was god, the world would be full of giant 50ft indestructable flying killer robots instead of short-lived, squishy little monkeys.

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THAT'S imaginitive!

:-)

[shrooma]

for some reason my posts seem to be getting mixed up with each other when i edit them, for which i must apologise.

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must be god punishing me for being blasphemous huh....?

:-)

[FlyingAngel]

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if I was god, the world would be full of giant 50ft indestructable flying killer robots instead of short-lived, squishy little monkeys.

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THAT'S imaginitive!

:-)

No in that case, I don't call you God. I call you Satan.

for some reason my posts seem to be getting mixed up with each other when i edit them, for which i must apologise.

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must be god punishing me for being blasphemous huh....?

:-)

You didn't click Edit. You clicked Reply obviously

[shrooma]

No in that case, I don't call you God. I call you Satan.

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so god doesn't possess any engineering or mechanical skills then huh?

bit short of omnipotency then for a supreme being wouldn't you say....?

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You didn't click Edit. You clicked Reply obviously

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funny, i thought my post specifically stated 'during editing', not replying.

the clue is in the word 'edit'.

obviously.

Edited April 20, 2013 by shrooma

[FlyingAngel]

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funny, i thought my post specifically stated 'during editing', not replying.

the clue is in the word 'edit'.

obviously.

Obviously you've mistaken. The buttons don't lie. 1000+ users use it everyday

[shrooma]

Obviously you've mistaken. The buttons don't lie. 1000+ users use it everyday

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when i press 'quote', it fills the box at the bottom of my page with whatever i'm quoting.

when i press 'edit' however, it takes me to a completely different page to do the editing, so being 'mistaken' simply isn't possible.

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billions of people use the english language every day, and don't seem to be 'mistaken' in the correct grammatical usage of the word 'you've'

but you're managed it.

obviously.

Edited April 20, 2013 by shrooma

[Harte]

Here we go again. It still doesn't explain who created the membranes or branes. You said as if the branes existed before the BB and have a living activity and physic interactions. Instead of inventing another thing to explain the birth of the BB to fill the empty answer, how about inventing the thing that created everything, including the membranes

Point taken. You won't get any argument from me.

How the hell would I know anyway? LOL

Really. I'm perfectly willing to admit that there's no way to account for some of the things science comes up with. Exactly like religion. Probably why science avoids such topics altogether.

Harte

[Timothy]

People pray to God not because of fear. They seek for guidance and comfort and the bless.

Yes, people fear for having bad luck, for having accident, for having deceased family member. So? Is wrong to hope for comfort? Or life is just about having money, buy life assurance?

Of course not. But myself, I do not need to seek comfort or bless from a fantastical entity.

We can get everything we need from those around us and the world we live in. Love, hope, courage, forgiveness etc. - anything that people look for in God.

Having money and that side of things is a different story altogether - but it's the same for those who believe in God and those who don't (I'm sure a majority have prayed to God for more wealth anyway).

[FlyingAngel]

when i press 'quote', it fills the box at the bottom of my page with whatever i'm quoting.

when i press 'edit' however, it takes me to a completely different page to do the editing, so being 'mistaken' simply isn't possible.

Pressing "edit" do not take you to a different page, it replaces your current post into an editor. This once again prove that you didn't observe things carefully. No worry, people make mistakes everyday and they deny it all the time.

Of course not. But myself, I do not need to seek comfort or bless from a fantastical entity.

We can get everything we need from those around us and the world we live in. Love, hope, courage, forgiveness etc. - anything that people look for in God.

Having money and that side of things is a different story altogether - but it's the same for those who believe in God and those who don't (I'm sure a majority have prayed to God for more wealth anyway).

Everyone is entitled to their belief. Each one has his own method to seek comfort. Just because you can find something is a way, other people have to follow that way. The "how" doesn't matter, all that matter is the result.

[shrooma]

Pressing "edit" do not take you to a different page, it replaces your current post into an editor. This once again prove that you didn't observe things carefully.

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wrong, and wrong again.

i aren't using a computer, i'm using a mobile phone, and the android OS puts you onto a different page to edit.

you should try finding these things out before jumping in with unfounded conclusions and speculations you believe to be true, but as someone who believes in a cloud-dwelling invisible friend who created them as a justification for their own existence, i'm not going to hold my breath waiting for your rationality to show itself.

obviously.

Edited April 21, 2013 by shrooma

[shrooma]

people make mistakes everyday and they deny it.

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such as believing in a creation myth and denying evolution maybe....?

[Frank Merton]

Everyone is entitled to their belief. Each one has his own method to seek comfort. Just because you can find something is a way, other people have to follow that way. The "how" doesn't matter, all that matter is the result.

There are many mountains, and every mountain has many paths up it, and probably as many paths that lead elsewhere. I am not among those who think it doesn't matter which path you take, even though many of them are good paths to take, there are others that are not good.

Because someone tells you a given path makes for happiness, or makes for satisfaction, or makes for wealth, or whatever, what do you want? That is the path you have to find, and it may take awhile.

[shrooma]

The "how" doesn't matter, all that matter is the result.

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i'm sure that hitler firmly believed that the end would justify the means too, and look how mistaken he was!

epic fail.

[FlyingAngel]

wrong, and wrong again.

i aren't using a computer, i'm using a mobile phone, and the android OS puts you onto a different page to edit.

Ok, but it still doesn't prove that you didn't make a mistake. It's just 3 buttons Quote, Edit, Reply. People used it everyday, you used it everyday. If there's really some kind of bug, people would know it right away. So it's rational to say that you made a mistake, until proven otherwise.

such as believing in a creation myth and denying evolution maybe....?

Probably. Actually you can believe in both at the same time.

i'm sure that hitler firmly believed that the end would justify the means too, and look how mistaken he was!

epic fail.

He believed is one thing. The results that everyone looked at it matters (massacre, bloods, etc...)

So instead of going to a bar, have a beer with girls. Some people choose to go to a church, pray, to give himself comfort. Same result.

Or are you saying it's wrong, they have to do it your way?

[shrooma]

Ok, but it still doesn't prove that you didn't make a mistake. It's just 3 buttons Quote, Edit, Reply. People used it everyday, you used it everyday. If there's really some kind of bug, people would know it right away. So it's rational to say that you made a mistake, until proven otherwise.

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there is a difference between a 'bug' and a 'glitch'.

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Probably. Actually you can believe in both at the same time.

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creationism and evolution are mutually exclusive, unless the god that made us 'in his own image' was an amoeba.....

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He believed is one thing. The results that everyone looked at it matters (massacre, bloods, etc...)

So instead of going to a bar, have a beer with girls. Some people choose to go to a church, pray, to give himself comfort. Same result.

Or are you saying it's wrong, they have to do it your way?

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that doesn't make any kind of sense??

[rustygh]

Whether anti big bang, or a god freak. One thing is completely clear. There is more evidence of a big bang then of a god. I follow the ideas of hawking because he is a brilliant mind, and I'm not closed in thought by a fictions religion of any kind. If you have new evidence to bring to the party by all means share it. I crave something new about any god, but its always the same dribble backed by the statement "I have faith" that to me means you are scared to not believe, you are weak. You cling to a religion and a god because of the myth of afterlife and if you are wrong you will be held from it.

That in it self was so brilliant of the humans that created these human religions. If any being deserves my worship it is those humans. They have fooled masses of people over hundreds of generations and have billions of followers. Props to the evil human mind!

Edited April 22, 2013 by rustygh

[Capt Amerika]

Whether anti big bang, or a god freak. One thing is completely clear. There is more evidence of a big bang then of a god. I follow the ideas of hawking because he is a brilliant mind, and I'm not closed in thought by a fictions religion of any kind. If you have new evidence to bring to the party by all means share it. I crave something new about any god, but its always the same dribble backed by the statement "I have faith" that to me means you are scared to not believe, you are weak. You cling to a religion and a god because of the myth of afterlife and if you are wrong you will be held from it.

That in it self was so brilliant of the humans that created these human religions. If any being deserves my worship it is those humans. They have fooled masses of people over hundreds of generations and have billions of followers. Props to the evil human mind!

Wow. I'm speechless.

This is the typical, "You are wrong, i am right" menatllity that i speak of when i say its a waste of time to even discuss.

You have no more evidence of "the big bang" than anyone here has of "God". Yet you are somehow superior because its YOUR choice.

btw, The Big Bang also requires faith.

You have Faith in what you believe but cannot prove.

Some of us actually believe in God AND th Big Bang.

We just choose to believbe that they are somehow tied together.

And as a side note, mocking people for praying to a god through faith is quite intolerant for one but SCIENCE has proven that during periods of worship/meditation the human mind is relaxed and the body will actually reap benefits from it. Do you reap any benefits from meditating to the Big Bang Theory?

And on a final note.... Opening a comment with a divisive statement tends to lessen your credibility and turn people of fto what you may have to say. "anti big bang, or a god freak"

[sepulchrave]

You have no more evidence of "the big bang" than anyone here has of "God".

Well there are at least five separate and distinct streams of observational evidence supporting the Big Bang theory.

The Big Bang also requires faith.

Sure, but this is the faith that ``objective reality exists independent of human observation''.

Not all faiths are equal.

Having faith that the Sun will rise tomorrow is much less speculative than having faith that you will win the Lottery five times in a row.

[Frank Merton]

You know I have utterly no faith that the sun will rise tomorrow. I expect it to happen for good reason and don't need faith.

[rustygh]

Wow. I'm speechless.

This is the typical, "You are wrong, i am right" menatllity that i speak of when i say its a waste of time to even discuss.

You have no more evidence of "the big bang" than anyone here has of "God". Yet you are somehow superior because its YOUR choice.

btw, The Big Bang also requires faith.

You have Faith in what you believe but cannot prove.

Some of us actually believe in God AND th Big Bang.

We just choose to believbe that they are somehow tied together.

And as a side note, mocking people for praying to a god through faith is quite intolerant for one but SCIENCE has proven that during periods of worship/meditation the human mind is relaxed and the body will actually reap benefits from it. Do you reap any benefits from meditating to the Big Bang Theory?

And on a final note.... Opening a comment with a divisive statement tends to lessen your credibility and turn people of fto what you may have to say. "anti big bang, or a god freak"

hell of a lot of bs for being speechless?

I do not believe the faith you talk about is needed to follow the scientific research and hypothesis shown about the big bang. Perhaps you do not understand the research therefore you believe you need faith but that is not how science works. You speak of a faith that has no scientific research or fact attached to it.

maybe you misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't asking your ideas about it, I was stating a simple fact. "there IS more proof and scientific possibility and factual research backing the big bang then any religion."

You can spout off about your god all you want but time and time again, but you have no proof.

You said "This is the typical, "You are wrong, i am right" menatllity that i speak of when i say its a waste of time to even discuss."

same old dribble we hear all the time from religion. I do not care how you feel about my post and I'm long past discussing religion with those people. Like I said if you have NEW information or valid scientific studies about religion please share it?

I didn't come in here and say a thing about what you post or your ideas. I voice my feelings and ideas on what I believe. Why is it I can't post religious nut jobs? that's how I see it, once again because of no proof.

I knew a sermon was a coming when I saw the words "I am speechless." haha anyway if I've offended you I apologies, truly didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I hope you live long and prosper, even with your religion.

Edited April 22, 2013 by rustygh

[Harte]

The religious should take a moment and realize that the Big Bang is not only not incompatible with certain religious myths, but it is aligned with those myths to an astonishing accuracy.

Or, what would the result of "let there be light" actually look like?

Harte

[shrooma]

(harte, there wasn't any light for thousands of years after the big bang dude, it was too hot to form photons.....)

(he says in a stage whisper)

;-)

[Capt Amerika]

So, since we obviously have the folks with all the answers here....

What came before the big bang? Where did it come from?

We all agree it happened, i'm just waiting for the smart fellas to explain why it happened and what caused it.

[sepulchrave]

You know I have utterly no faith that the sun will rise tomorrow. I expect it to happen for good reason and don't need faith.

Perhaps not, but at some level science is based on what I think can reasonably described as ``faith''.

Scientific theories, like all theories, are based on axioms. These axioms provide the starting assumptions for the theory; proving these axioms is not possible within the confines of that theory.

I think one could call these axioms the ``basis of faith in science''; these are the things that must be accepted without proof.

Obviously a key aspect of science is reducing the set of axioms as much as possible (in stark contrast to religion).

But at some point you will end up with axioms like:

The behaviour of physical objects can be accurately predicted with mathematical expressions, and reality adheres to rules which can be deduced using logic, reason, and mathematics, that cannot be ``proven'', because we don't have access to tools that are not already assumed by the axiom. (Basically Godel's incompleteness theorem.)

I bring this up because, in my opinion, debates between science and religion should not involve the claim that science does not rely on faith, but rather that science strives to remove as much faith as possible; and if not express those elements of faith in a way that is at least testable.

Start with a few basic scientific axioms, and one can derive the laws that govern the motion of the planets (as just one example).

Start with a rather large book full of basic religious axioms (i.e., the Bible), and I am not sure what you can derive.

[Harte]

(harte, there wasn't any light for thousands of years after the big bang dude, it was too hot to form photons.....)

(he says in a stage whisper)

;-)

Phht!

A mere blink of an eye.

Harte