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Grandpa Greenman

Change...

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Posted (edited)

I have to smile when I hear people talk about reconstruction of the old Pagan religions, Norse, Celtic or Asatru. Reconstruction of what? Watching Viking on History Channel makes me think do we really want to do that? We can't do what they did in modern society without ending up in jail. Even in the Abrahamic religions there is a lot of things you can't and shouldn't do, yet people hang on to the old dogma with both hands. So far as I know time marches in one direction, a fact I am very pleased with. Change is what time is, If change stops then so does time.

All the neo Pagan religions no matter how direct the line of information about it has changed over time. Human sacrifice is not going to make a come back nor do we want it to. Most of us practicing a Pagan religion must see what we are doing is new, in garb of idealized old. I think the advantage of neo Paganism is there is no sacred book full of dogma and out dated rules one must obey. Learn, love and reason are the only mandates we really need. Learn from the old and make it new.

Edited by Darkwind
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I think some of the traditions are ok to bring back, but a lot (like you say) aren't. All religion adapt over time and bringing back any old religion would have to have a lot of adaption and changes to it. Sometimes it does make you wonder why adapt an old religion? Why not start again from scratch?

I think everyone (not just pagans) have to realie that their religion has changed from it's original baseline.

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Posted (edited)

It comes down to the person really.

Generally though Pagans are more open minded about their own religion and usually educate themselves on other religions as well. I have seen Christians, Muslims and Jews who will educate themselves on other religions though, so it's you can't class all the people of those religions as the same.

Edited by Coffey

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It's an intereting idea, DW, and not just for neo-pagans. A lot of religions reach for as much "ancientness" as they can, One of the larger movements in modern Christianity is churches that suppose they are reinstituing the practices of the earliest Christianity. And just like the pagan examples you gave, these reconstructions have much in thm that is speculative.

Islam, of course, didn't present itself as the new religion, but as the recovery of the real religion of Abraham and his son, Ishmael. Efficiently enough, they were able to recycle practices, since after all, these were part of that source religion, and all that needed to be fixed was that pesky multiplicity of gods.

There must be something about communon with the past, real or imagined, that complements the religious impulse. Ancestor worship is among the oldest forms of religion there is. Maybe all religion has (or could have) a bit of ancestor worship in it, if not blood ancestors, then spiritual ancestors, people who did things similar to what the living are doing with similar intent.

If there's anything to that, then of course you don't need to go back to human sacrifice, or sacred prostitution, or whatever else simply isn't possible today. But maybe there are other things that might bind the living to those of the past who did these things for a reason and with a meaning. There's more than one way to reenact any myth; it's the myth that carries the meaning.

Good thread.

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I'm for human sacrifice. If anything, today's faith lacks a good pizzazz.

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It comes down to the person really.

Generally though Pagans are more open minded about their own religion and usually educate themselves on other religions as well. I have seen Christians, Muslims and Jews who will educate themselves on other religions though, so it's you can't class all the people of those religions as the same.

I read this twice, but I don't understand what you are trying to say. There are two kinds of religion one is revealed where you have a one text or guru who tells you what you believe, (Christianity, Islam, etc). The other is spiritual where learn from being introspective and look to many sources. You are essentially your own guru. (Earth base, many Eastern religions etc) Most people can't seem to understand being their own guru, so the look to a coven, temple, Church, or sacred text to guide them. But people don't really look at what they are getting into most of the time. Somebody throws them a line and they grab on to it, not knowing what is at the other end. What amazes me is how they hang on even though they know there is a shark on the other end.

I'm for human sacrifice. If anything, today's faith lacks a good pizzazz.

Are you volunteering to be the next Wickerman?

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I read this twice, but I don't understand what you are trying to say. There are two kinds of religion one is revealed where you have a one text or guru who tells you what you believe, (Christianity, Islam, etc). The other is spiritual where learn from being introspective and look to many sources. You are essentially your own guru. (Earth base, many Eastern religions etc) Most people can't seem to understand being their own guru, so the look to a coven, temple, Church, or sacred text to guide them. But people don't really look at what they are getting into most of the time. Somebody throws them a line and they grab on to it, not knowing what is at the other end. What amazes me is how they hang on even though they know there is a shark on the other end.

Well i was trying to say (but obviously failed miserably lol) that some people from those other religions look at their religion in a spiritual way (just like a pagan) taking their text more as a guidance than a rule. Obviously a lot don't, but there is more and more becoming like this in modern times. Christianity being the forerunner of this as a lot more of it's followers are western.

What I was saying before was trying to explain how the difference comes down to the actual person. I've met Christians and Muslims who have taken time to read the other religions and other peoples views without judging them or condemning them. Which is similar to how most Pagans are open.

Also even with paganism I still met a few who are just as "textbook" as some Muslims or Christians and can get just as heated and in your face as the extreme ones. I dislike anyone who puts Religion before proper morals, respect or ethics. Everyone has the freedom to believe what they want and to think what they want, respecting that is the first step to be a better person. Sadly a lot of the time people let religion get in the way of this which Is where i blame the person more than the religion.

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Thanks, man. I understand know. I know what you mean about the textbook Pagans. I try to guide them to center. I tell them put down the book and listen to the trees. Throw a book in the river and it decays, rots and washes away, but the river remains.

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Posted (edited)

I never heard of "text book" pagans, I never heard of any book that should be studied and followed like some bible. Maybe in some rather "commercial" countries where money is made from "new age" they have this, I don't know. Rodnovery does not have any book, and even the practices are not seen as an essential part of any belief or spirituality. Any rituals are simply to bring some focus, there are no strict rules to be obeyed, nobody has written any rules in any book. There is no form of dogma or compulsive obsessive behaviour that some other religions engender, banging heads on a wall for one religion and counting beads for others, or rocking back and forth chanting. I better say I don't care that people do these strange things, it is their affair, not mine, I just say I never saw any pagan doing such things. But like I say, perhaps in other countries people do things differently. We are all different, we do different things, we do not all have to conform to those with the biggest mouths or wallets. However, the OP says change, and I agree, everything changes, and change is the enemy of dogma, which is a force for stagnation and evil.

Edited by Atentutankh-pasheri
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We are all different, we do different things, we do not all have to conform to those with the biggest mouths or wallets. However, the OP says change, and I agree, everything changes, and change is the enemy of dogma, which is a force for stagnation and evil.

Hail truth and welcome,

As Above so Below,

SMIB

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I think the connection with the earth from the oldest traditions needs to come back, from native American to Druidic. This was the anchor of traditional spirituality. Dogmas and rituals can do whatever to fit individual needs, but the deep respect, careing and stewartship of the earth needs to return. Without it, we will strip this planet clean.

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I think the connection with the earth from the oldest traditions needs to come back, from native American to Druidic. This was the anchor of traditional spirituality. Dogmas and rituals can do whatever to fit individual needs, but the deep respect, careing and stewartship of the earth needs to return. Without it, we will strip this planet clean.

Don't think there were not enlightened people on Easter island. Ultimatly we are a democracy.

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