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markprice

Destruction of Hell

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The lake of fire seems to appear after armagedon, when satan etc surender to god/christ. All evil is consumed in this, from fallen angels, satan, the beast, and those humans not saved for eternal life. The smoke from this arises in an "unending pillar". This refers to its height, not its duration, as obviously the fire and smoke ceases before the new earth is reformed or recreated.

Then the lake of fire would have to be the earth's core and something like a volcano forming the pillar of smoke.

It is the end point of present existence, and allows the transformation into the new earth and a new time, where the lamb lies down with the lion; death, decay, pain and suffering, no longer exist, and all evil is removed. The old earth is definitely consumed by fire as a cleansing process, from which the new earth arises phoenix- like in its new form. These are the literal words of revelations, and thus of the bible, for those who take the bible's words literally.

Removed or destroyed?

Ps in my understanding via literary "deconstruction" of the nature of the bible, its writers and its writing, Daniel and revelation were written to be deliberately linked. Ie revelation was written deliberately as a text following on from Daniel. They contain linkages, repetitions and connections. They are also the two most significant books of prophecy in the bible.

John was a trained adept; Danial was more of a natural mystic (is that right). All of the symbolism has esoteric meaning and some say nothing to do with the end of the world. As an esoteric allegory from genesis to revelations it composes a form of initiation into a more advanced state of human/divine consciousness. Within that is the phenomena of hell. If all evil is burned out or removed it would still have to exist if heaven was to continue to exist. But there may be a new heaven (another bible detail I'm not clear on) so some sort of new hell...that is if we accept the balance of energy theory.

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Also, the following quotes make it clear that the lake of fire will never end, according to the bible. I'm still thinking the new hell is the lake of fire.

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.[Matthew 25:41]

And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.[revelations 20:10]

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John was a trained adept; Danial was more of a natural mystic (is that right). All of the symbolism has esoteric meaning and some say nothing to do with the end of the world. As an esoteric allegory from genesis to revelations it composes a form of initiation into a more advanced state of human/divine consciousness. Within that is the phenomena of hell. If all evil is burned out or removed it would still have to exist if heaven was to continue to exist. But there may be a new heaven (another bible detail I'm not clear on) so some sort of new hell...that is if we accept the balance of energy theory.

You read too many New Age books. I have no problem with that as long as you don't put you theories in a Christian context. Read things about the gods, Enki and Elohim.

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Also, the following quotes make it clear that the lake of fire will never end, according to the bible. I'm still thinking the new hell is the lake of fire.

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.[Matthew 25:41]

And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.[revelations 20:10]

Hello markprice,

The River of Fire is nothing new. Have you read the Book of Daniel? The Bible never said anything about the immortality of the soul. If you believe in Christ (with all of your heart), you will have eternal life -- BIG DIFFERENCE. The River of Fire is for the evil sons of God...one day. There's so much to say, and I agree with euroninja that you have a lot of reading to do.

As I mentioned in one of my videos, the prince of evil has control of this whole world. Guess who's doing quite an extensive propaganda since the fall of man?

“Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” MATTHEW 10:28

"There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you--who are you to judge your neighbor?" JAMES 4:12

Peace.

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Like the braveone, I had a void experience recently--not sure about his details--and there was nothing willing about it. It was a total loss of gravity in spinning darkness; as I rushed downward I thought: this is that damned tunnel to hell again and I've been there and done that so I decided to stop by finding sort of a vertical compass. It was like pushing my feet down against the walls of a tube until I stopped. I snapped out of it but then my life fell apart a month later with blood-clot-paralysis etc.

I would never willingly do that.

Sounds more like you had a nightmare and a stroke. Sorry to hear that.

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You forgot to include this: "But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. [ Matthew 8:12]" Outer darkness = Void, perhaps? Therefore, hell is a conscious state of torment, not just a location. As I have mentioned earlier, the Book of Revelation provokes controversy. Not all Christians believe it; however almost all believe in the Book of Daniel.

Peace.

It has probably been a proposed theory before, but I will venture to say that Hell is an actual place that is indeed a void. However, it is inside one of the many unseen dimensions that exist within the Earth itself. Mainstream science has just started to consider the multiple dimension theory in the last few years as a plausible one. Maybe "outer darkness" means a darkness outside of our physical realm that exists in the other dimension known as Hell? Just a thought.

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Posted (edited)

It has probably been a proposed theory before, but I will venture to say that Hell is an actual place that is indeed a void. However, it is inside one of the many unseen dimensions that exist within the Earth itself. Mainstream science has just started to consider the multiple dimension theory in the last few years as a plausible one. Maybe "outer darkness" means a darkness outside of our physical realm that exists in the other dimension known as Hell? Just a thought.

Hi conspiracy buff,

Another dimension's the location I was alluding to when I mentioned the Void; however, I have already mentioned this on several posts. Actually, I've experienced this realm; therefore, it's not a theory to me...and weeping invisible tears and total fear and betrayal engulfed my being. First-hand account's the reason why I always point out for people to REALLY know the (religious or none) path they've chosen.

Betrayal and actually seeing (the faceless) Jesus Christ are the factors for switching back to my Christian root. There are demons disguised as holier-than-thou [pseudo] gods out there. BEWARE. I may have been fooled once but never again.

Lesson learned.

Peace.

Edited by braveone2u

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Then the lake of fire would have to be the earth's core and something like a volcano forming the pillar of smoke.

Removed or destroyed?

John was a trained adept; Danial was more of a natural mystic (is that right). All of the symbolism has esoteric meaning and some say nothing to do with the end of the world. As an esoteric allegory from genesis to revelations it composes a form of initiation into a more advanced state of human/divine consciousness. Within that is the phenomena of hell. If all evil is burned out or removed it would still have to exist if heaven was to continue to exist. But there may be a new heaven (another bible detail I'm not clear on) so some sort of new hell...that is if we accept the balance of energy theory.

Not necessarily the bible words indicate that the surface of the earth is cleansed by all consuming fire AFTER the death of all evil in a lake of fire on the surface. The pillar of smoke from this lake seemed to observers to disappear into the sky in an "endless" or very high shape.

There are three relevant comments in revelations first; that there shall be no more death decay PAIN or SUFFERING (which precludes anyone suffering in hell) Second, thatsinners will die the second death of body and soul ie tha they will cease to exist both as body and a self aware consciousnesses (not suffer torment in hell) and last; that in the new time there will be" no more curse" only the throne of god and of the lamb ie that; hell, satan, sinners evil etc., will no longer co-exist with gods kingdom.

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Posted (edited)

Or not creating our personal versions of it.

Yes, we may well have our own personal versions of hell, but that doesn't preclude the possible independent existence of hell, but rather, it implies that there is a hell from which we derive our personal versions or interpretations.

Edited by Philangeli

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Posted (edited)

Glad that worked for you but sadly it had no effect on hell (you knew that, or at least you knew I would say that?).

True except for the willingly part that is half right.

Like the braveone, I had a void experience recently--not sure about his details--and there was nothing willing about it. It was a total loss of gravity in spinning darkness; as I rushed downward I thought: this is that damned tunnel to hell again and I've been there and done that so I decided to stop by finding sort of a vertical compass. It was like pushing my feet down against the walls of a tube until I stopped. I snapped out of it but then my life fell apart a month later with blood-clot-paralysis etc.

I would never willingly do that.

I see the 'hell' we sometimes experience in this life as a forewarning, in the same way that we may occasionally have glimpses of heaven. A 'taste' of what we may consider to be hell in this life is a spiritual mystery - why do some experience more of it than others? However, the experience of great suffering in this life does not necessarily mean one is in hell, even if one labels it as such.

Those who 'willingly' descend into hell (from a Christian perspective), have long gone past the tipping point of possible salvation. These are the souls who despise and curse God for eternity. If they did have an ounce of remorse or regret left in them, they would cry out for help, and they would receive it, in which case, they would then be in a state of purgatory.

Edited by Philangeli

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Yes, we may well have our own personal versions of hell, but that doesn't preclude the possible independent existence of hell, but rather, it implies that there is a hell from which we derive our personal versions or interpretations.

We derive our personal versions from the creative juices of our mind, mostly from all the things that scare the crap out of us and go bump in the night.

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Posted (edited)

First, I have always wanted to form a team and assault the hellgates.

Secondly, does it matter if whoever is down there has already defeated either by themselves or by Jesus?

Then there is the fact that hell is already destroyed so what we really want to do is restore it and everyone in it back to their original graceful states.

Finally, if you want to help in this then find someone from the past and pray for them. Who knows, maybe your prayers will be enough for grace to reach them and maybe we also can change the past in this manner.

If God's forgiveness can wipe out past actions then that is changing the past, a form of it, and we also have the power to forgive those who have wrong us, whatever they commited will also be changed by your act.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!
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First, I have always wanted to form a team and assault the hellgates.

Secondly, does it matter if whoever is down there has already defeated either by themselves or by Jesus?

Then there is the fact that hell is already destroyed so what we really want to do is restore it and everyone in it back to their original graceful states.

Finally, if you want to help in this then find someone from the past and pray for them. Who knows, maybe your prayers will be enough for grace to reach them and maybe we also can change the past in this manner.

If God's forgiveness can wipe out past actions then that is changing the past, a form of it, and we also have the power to forgive those who have wrong us, whatever they commited will also be changed by your act.

I like your fighting spirit, destroy hell by emptying it and restore someone to the experience of love all in one foul swoop :tu:

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Posted (edited)

You read too many New Age books. I have no problem with that as long as you don't put you theories in a Christian context. Read things about the gods, Enki and Elohim.

What? I don't think I've read any "new age books". And don't tell me what to read, especially while contribution no information of your own.

edit: the christian context is where the theory that bothers you for no particular reason came from.

Edited by markprice

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Sounds more like you had a nightmare and a stroke. Sorry to hear that.

You again...no it was far more than a nightmare and not a stroke.

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Not necessarily the bible words indicate that the surface of the earth is cleansed by all consuming fire AFTER the death of all evil in a lake of fire on the surface. The pillar of smoke from this lake seemed to observers to disappear into the sky in an "endless" or very high shape.

Couldn't have been the entire surface of the earth(all consuming) if there were observers.

There are three relevant comments in revelations first; that there shall be no more death decay PAIN or SUFFERING (which precludes anyone suffering in hell) Second, thatsinners will die the second death of body and soul ie tha they will cease to exist both as body and a self aware consciousnesses (not suffer torment in hell) and last; that in the new time there will be" no more curse" only the throne of god and of the lamb ie that; hell, satan, sinners evil etc., will no longer co-exist with gods kingdom.

I already posted a few bible quotes that contradict your theory. What does forever and ever mean to you? I agree there will have to be a separation if the new earth will not be so easily corrupted by evil, and that would explain the end of pain and suffering to some extent, but it sure wont be on a planet like Earth for there will be no more Sea, according to revelations. I think that is more of a description of the new heaven.

No longer co-existing would be a natural state because evil is entirely unnatural/inhuman IMO. As far as the bible goes nothing "precludes suffering in hell".

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I see the 'hell' we sometimes experience in this life as a forewarning, in the same way that we may occasionally have glimpses of heaven. A 'taste' of what we may consider to be hell in this life is a spiritual mystery - why do some experience more of it than others? However, the experience of great suffering in this life does not necessarily mean one is in hell, even if one labels it as such.

Those who 'willingly' descend into hell (from a Christian perspective), have long gone past the tipping point of possible salvation. These are the souls who despise and curse God for eternity. If they did have an ounce of remorse or regret left in them, they would cry out for help, and they would receive it, in which case, they would then be in a state of purgatory.

Exactly, it (experience) preceded physical hell which is a reflection of the spiritual hell. I got through it spiritually and now I have to get through it physically.

So then they will despise God in purgatory? Either that or your use of the word eternity has no meaning. I see what you are saying though, but why purgatory? They would have already been purged by the fires of hell...

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Exactly, it (experience) preceded physical hell which is a reflection of the spiritual hell. I got through it spiritually and now I have to get through it physically.

So then they will despise God in purgatory? Either that or your use of the word eternity has no meaning. I see what you are saying though, but why purgatory? They would have already been purged by the fires of hell...

Sorry, on re-reading what I wrote, I can see that some of the words may have been confusing.

It is my understanding that hell and purgatory are 2 different spiritual states.

I didn't mean that a soul could be in hell, but still have a chance of being 'promoted' (so to speak) to purgatory.

Hell is the total and willing separation of the soul from God. In this state, the soul has no desire to reconcile with God, but quite the opposite.

The soul has knowingly expelled God's light from within and decided to embrace evil. Hell's fire is the soul's own anger, hatred and bitterness, eternally consuming itself.

In the state of purgatory, however, the soul accepts its suffering as it knows its sins are being purged by God's grace. It is not the fire of hell. The soul still contains the light of God and it knows its suffering will come to an end. The length of this suffering (according to Catholic tradition and the testimony of many saints) can be shortened through our own prayers and sacrifices.

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Posted (edited)

Couldn't have been the entire surface of the earth(all consuming) if there were observers.

I already posted a few bible quotes that contradict your theory. What does forever and ever mean to you? I agree there will have to be a separation if the new earth will not be so easily corrupted by evil, and that would explain the end of pain and suffering to some extent, but it sure wont be on a planet like Earth for there will be no more Sea, according to revelations. I think that is more of a description of the new heaven.

No longer co-existing would be a natural state because evil is entirely unnatural/inhuman IMO. As far as the bible goes nothing "precludes suffering in hell".

I will disagree with you, but then the bible is not an easy book to agree on. For example the quote you give of "forever and ever" I think, from memory, is actually translated from a greek word eon which actually means for an indeterminate, if longish time not eternity..

I am not sure where you get the idea of a NEW heaven from. Heaven doesnt change nor do all the other civilizartions in heaven which were uncorrupted by the fall.

Only earth has to be renewed and restored to its original state. It is quite likely for consistency in the bible writing, that in that restored edenic state there would be no seas, as there were none in eden.The heavenly city with the garden of eden does "touch down" as a centrepiece of the new earth but in my understanding, biblically, heaven consists of all of the universe governed by god. The heavenly city is the place of governance for all of heaven

. But i have no particular investment in the bible as literal truth. I study it find it fascinating and informative and live by it, as both a book written by men and women in contact with god, and also as a good practical way to live my life. It also has many very important spiritual truths about the nature of humanity and how to be happy and fulfilled; Indeed how to create heaven on earth, in our lives today.

Much more important and significant to me is my personal ongoing relationship with god. Books (even the bible) are not really needed for this, although they can be interesting and helpful. God teaches, mentors, and interacts with me as he did with those in the bible. This is how all humans are meant to live, in my opinion, because it fulfils what we are capable of being.

The words of christ and others in the bible make real sense only when you live with god.Then they all become clear and self evidently true.

The wages of sin is death, not eternal suffering. And the god i know and love offers only life rather than death, not eternal damnation or suffering. That theology was introduced by the catholics many years after the introduction of christianity, and personally I do not find it in the bible. It turns more people away from a relationship with god than it brings to him and so, why would it be god's expectation or part of the message of the bible.? The christian God is a god of love and mercy albeit just. He does not condemn us to death, but offers everyone of us eternal life. We chose death by our own choices, thoughts and deeds.

Edited by Mr Walker

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It was a total loss of gravity in spinning darkness; as I rushed downward I thought: this is that damned tunnel to hell again and I've been there and done that so I decided to stop by finding sort of a vertical compass. It was like pushing my feet down against the walls of a tube until I stopped.

You again...no it was far more than a nightmare and not a stroke.

You were strung out on heavy drugs. I've done the spinning in darkness and snapping out of it....................... No big deal.

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.that is if we accept the balance of energy theory.

Does it sound Christian to you? Where's this balance of energy theory in the bible? You will have a new mind in the new earth. There will be no more hell in "heaven".

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Did you guys know that hell has a games lobby in the basement? Hitler is down there playing bocce as I type!

Anyway I'm sure he wouldn't appreciate a nuke being detonated down there, at least not until he finishes his game...

If you could see you would know hitlers is chained naked and tormented by the very people he tormented, unfortunately because they hold onto those emotions there in the lower realms to. The teaching about forgiveness was given for this reason, nobody who holds onto such negative emotions can receive us even if we try communicate with them, they would rather hurt those who hurt them. To stay there for long is very dangerous, we have lost some who go there to help, the reality is there's powerful under lords with servants there, but the trap is to allow them to accuse you because of transgressions which they know, allow them to condemn you in your heart and you will be. You will then be in hell too, only the most alert can escape the lower realms if they choose to go there and stay for more than a short period. The liberation of hell will happen but it will take a long time. There is vast distances between the hell, lower realms, middle realms, higher realms and the actual Kingdom.

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Blow up the planet Venus and you will destroy Hell.

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You were strung out on heavy drugs. I've done the spinning in darkness and snapping out of it....................... No big deal.

uh, wrong again. Try again later, or not.

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Does it sound Christian to you? Where's this balance of energy theory in the bible? You will have a new mind in the new earth. There will be no more hell in "heaven".

I'm not trying to sound Christian, and it is an open question so I'd hoped for more pagan input. Heaven and Hell is a balance of energy IMO. And what is this last underlined part referring to? That would be like fish storming the gates of the desert or some such nonsense.

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