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Ohelemapit

Britain has deserted me.

34 posts in this topic

A British grandmother facing execution for smuggling drugs into Bali has criticised the Government for failing to help her legal fight to escape the firing squad.

Lindsay Sandiford, 56, was sentenced to death in January after being caught carrying 10.6lb of cocaine worth £1.6million into the holiday island from Bangkok in May last year.

A Just Giving online fund set up by supporters has raised only a third of the £8,000 she needs to take her case to Indonesia’s Supreme Court after a lower court rejected her appeal.

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I could care less :no:

Did she know that what she was doing was Illegal? Did she know what the penalties in the Country are? Did she hope to make lots of money from her activities?

keep within the laws of the Country of which you are living - fairly basic advice actually. Why should the UK Taxpayer pay for the defence of a drug Mule??

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I could care less :no:

Did she know that what she was doing was Illegal? Did she know what the penalties in the Country are? Did she hope to make lots of money from her activities?

.

yes, yes, and yes.

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she broke a law in that country and as a drug smuggler of cat a drugs she deserves it

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She deserves what she's getting. Break the law in another country and face the consequences.

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I dont believe in executions for criminals.Let them rot in prison till they go nuts, but no to executions.

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I dont believe in executions for criminals.Let them rot in prison till they go nuts, but no to executions.

.

not even for the rape and murder of children....?

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As the saying goes

"If You cannot do the time.... dont do the crime...."

I dont agree with the death sentence, they should lock her up, killing her is a bit harsh

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It's funny how here in Australia, we are expected to show sympathy and rush to help those convicted of smuggling drugs to other countries.

They are a criminal there solely for monetary gain. If they think the government of their country is going to act as a safety net they can forget it.

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I dont believe in executions for criminals.Let them rot in prison till they go nuts, but no to executions.

It doesn’t matter whether you agree with it or not, it is the law of that country. She took the risk and was willing to live of the rewards no doubt and so she should take responsibility for her actions and suffer the consequences that risk brings when caught.

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I don't agree with the death penalty, but I guess that is a separate topic. Unfortunately for her, she got caught. And no it isn't fair that it seems people higher up the chain can bribe and get off with a much lighter sentence. But hey, it's a risk she took and she lost out. If she had got away with it I am sure she would have made a nice wad of cash and wouldn't have been complaining! I've never been to the place but am aware of the strict penalities for drug smuggling. So I am very sure she was aware of the risks if she was caught.

And I think it is totally right that she should pay for her own defense.

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In the article it said she cooperated with police which lead to four other suspects arrested yet none of them got the death penalty. Does that seem fair to anyone?

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[

.

not even for the rape and murder of children....?

]I used to think that I personally could/would kill anyone who abused or killed any of my children, but I now think that I couldn't live with myself for taking another human being's life, no matter what the circumstances. I abhor anyone who abuses children in any shape or form,and I am sure there are enough criminals in jail who can dish out just revenge from within, but no to killing another person. I personally saw enough killing in different circumstances in a different time era.

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I don't find this topic unrelated to the issue of capital punishment.

The death penalty for drugs is unreasonable but the death penalty itself is something we as a species will outgrow, and all pressure should be given in that effort.

The societies which have already abolished it are shining lights and hope for the whole world. Britain and Europe in general should at least pressure Bali over the topic, even if not this specific case but that in itself would make an excellent touchstone.

In time Bali and even my own society will grow beyond this. Prayers to her.

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I don't find this topic unrelated to the issue of capital punishment.

The death penalty for drugs is unreasonable but the death penalty itself is something we as a species will outgrow, and all pressure should be given in that effort.

The societies which have already abolished it are shining lights and hope for the whole world. Britain and Europe in general should at least pressure Bali over the topic, even if not this specific case but that in itself would make an excellent touchstone.

In time Bali and even my own society will grow beyond this. Prayers to her.

Forcing your beliefs on another country is just wrong. It’s their laws and their rights, they probably feel the same about countries that don’t have the death penalty, and they should force their beliefs onto us.

Their beliefs are equally right to them as ours our to us.. do what makes yours more acceptable?

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Agree with you 100%

Never said force our view on them. I said pressure, maybe it requires more clarification.

I believe a culture can only change from within when ready, but we can pressure but not in a forceful way, but we can have protestors of the DP protest, we can align with protestors of the DP there, help fund them, post about it, just brainstorming, but I never meant pressure as force.

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Posted (edited)

Britain has deserted us by NOT having the same laws here! The sespits are back on the streets before you can say "smuggling drugs into the UK is illegal".

Edited by freetoroam

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Agree with you 100%

Never said force our view on them. I said pressure, maybe it requires more clarification.

I believe a culture can only change from within when ready, but we can pressure but not in a forceful way, but we can have protestors of the DP protest, we can align with protestors of the DP there, help fund them, post about it, just brainstorming, but I never meant pressure as force.

The real issue here is that. Each and everyone knows the consequences when doing something illegal in another country. When you enter someone else’s house there are rules and regulations to abide to.

Regardless to anyone’s personal belief in a death penalty.. that is not the issue.

She took a risk and got caught, had she not got caught and earned a nice payday from her actions, I bet she would be living off the rewards of them right now… She believes the UK let her down and left her hanging, I bet she wasn’t planning to pay her UK taxes on her illegal earnings, doing her little bit for our Country.

I recover, abducted children from some countries most people have never heard of and I take the risk of 25yrs in prison as minimum punishment for my actions in some countries, I take on-board the risks when I plan my contracts and therefore have no grounds for defence if caught.

When it comes to drug smuggling, I have no sympathy for anyone.

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I can balance the concerns of respecting another country's laws and knowing that the death penalty is wrong. You have as well but we are going to weigh them differently.

Whether she thinks Britain abandoned her is not my greatest concern and neither is your sympathy or lack of it when it comes to drug smuggling.

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The real issue here is that. Each and everyone knows the consequences when doing something illegal in another country. When you enter someone else’s house there are rules and regulations to abide to.

Regardless to anyone’s personal belief in a death penalty.. that is not the issue.

She took a risk and got caught, had she not got caught and earned a nice payday from her actions, I bet she would be living off the rewards of them right now… She believes the UK let her down and left her hanging, I bet she wasn’t planning to pay her UK taxes on her illegal earnings, doing her little bit for our Country.

I recover, abducted children from some countries most people have never heard of and I take the risk of 25yrs in prison as minimum punishment for my actions in some countries, I take on-board the risks when I plan my contracts and therefore have no grounds for defence if caught.

When it comes to drug smuggling, I have no sympathy for anyone.

Could not agree more. :tu: :tu: :tu:

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I could care less :no:

Did she know that what she was doing was Illegal? Did she know what the penalties in the Country are? Did she hope to make lots of money from her activities?

keep within the laws of the Country of which you are living - fairly basic advice actually. Why should the UK Taxpayer pay for the defence of a drug Mule??

We could always volunteer the firing squad.

Drug smuggling trash.

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I can balance the concerns of respecting another country's laws and knowing that the death penalty is wrong. You have as well but we are going to weigh them differently.

Whether she thinks Britain abandoned her is not my greatest concern and neither is your sympathy or lack of it when it comes to drug smuggling.

You base your response on the Cultural and Moral norms of where you live. You "know" the death penalty is wrong, but that is just your amortizitation of your cultural beliefs. These beliefs are not Universal, they are Parochial,.

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Posted (edited)

Still does not take away from the fact that in the course of history progress has seen many countries turn from favoring capital punishment to abolishing it. In time even they will follow suit.

It happens on every front, slavery, women's rights, worker's rights, and general human rights. Some can say look how horrible India is for letting their workers burn in factories. We too were horrible but instilled safety measures after the deadly Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire. Our media showed us, made us aware, and there was progress made. India and the world are pubclicizing this now due to their recent incidents and progress will arrive shortly there.

The same goes for human sacrifice, society after society stopped doing it, they switched to animals, then to fruit, or just giving up a bad habit. Long ago so many societes used to practice that even some as we see as the font of ancient civilization. People just internally realize and change.

So what you said is true but takes nothing away from our right to pressure using soft power (not force or violence) to help them with progress. That does not mean instill our views on them.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!

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Still does not take away from the fact that in the course of history progress has seen many countries turn from favoring capital punishment to abolishing it. In time even they will follow suit.

It happens on every front, slavery, women's rights, worker's rights, and general human rights. Some can say look how horrible India is for letting their workers burn in factories. We too were horrible but instilled safety measures after the deadly Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire. Our media showed us, made us aware, and there was progress made. India and the world are pubclicizing this now due to their recent incidents and progress will arrive shortly there.

The same goes for human sacrifice, society after society stopped doing it, they switched to animals, then to fruit, or just giving up a bad habit. Long ago so many societes used to practice that even some as we see as the font of ancient civilization. People just internally realize and change.

So what you said is true but takes nothing away from our right to pressure using soft power (not force or violence) to help them with progress. That does not mean instill our views on them.

This has nothing to do with Human Sacrifice (murdering the innocent to placate some unKnowable God). This has nothing to do with Human Rights, Womens' Emancipation, or anything else.

This is about respecting another Sovereign Nation's Laws, if, through foreign pressure, these laws are diminished, then simply, you do not go there to break their laws.

The indigenous peoples are subject to the same law, but NOBODY ever comes on this forum to say that the sentence is wrong.

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Posted (edited)

Still going to disagree with your general position. My view favors progress, just as Britain abolished slavery, made commentary toward us about it without force, and soon we followed suit, the same will happen in this instance toward other countries in the matter of capital punishment.

Soft power is effective, we have every right to employ it as a free society to those less so.

Your main view seems to be that no one has a right to break laws in other countries, that is not a topic I am discussing other than to generally agree, that main point neither speaks to this other one, or counters its, and it seems trivial in light of other issues.

Foreign Office Minister Baroness Warsi has made a statement to mark the ninth anniversary of the World Day Against the Death Penalty on 10 October, and the fifth anniversary of the European Day Against the Death Penalty.

"It is the longstanding policy of the UK Government to oppose the death penalty in all circumstances as a matter of principle. There is no evidence of its deterrent value and any miscarriage of justice is irreversible and irreparable.

"Since the Government launched its Strategy for Abolition of the Death Penalty in October 2011, we have continued to take action against our three goals, and taken all appropriate opportunities to raise the issue with our priority countries. Our work has also included support for civil society projects in different parts of the world, which are helping gather support for worldwide abolition.

"There have been several positive developments over the last year: I was particularly pleased to note the ratification by Benin, in July this year, of the Second Optional Protocol to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which aims at the abolition of the death penalty. I was also pleased to see the State of Connecticut repealing the death penalty in April this year, becoming the 17th US state to do so.

"At the same time I am concerned about the sharp increase in executions during the past twelve months in some of those countries which still apply and implement the death penalty. Later this year, the United Nations General Assembly will for the fourth time debate a resolution which advocates a worldwide moratorium on the use of the death penalty. I would particularly encourage those states which have a long-standing moratorium in force, to consider joining the growing world trend against the death penalty and to vote in favour of the Resolution."

http://www.noodls.co...EF7B6AD2F736A77

Edited by Leave Britney alone!

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