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Avatar Samantha Ai

How the Right Manufactures Fear of Muslims

Changing views on Muslims   28 members have voted

  1. 1. How have your thoughts changed towards Muslims?

    • I am a Christian and my views have changed to better understand and accept Muslims.
      5
    • I am not a Chrisitan and my views have changed to better understand and accept Muslims.
      7
    • I am a Chrisitan and my views have changed to take a dimmer view against Muslims.
      4
    • I am not a Christian and my views have changed to take a dimmer view against Muslims.
      7
    • Obligatory other
      5

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278 posts in this topic

I don't live in the US but i did grow up in the UK, so for me to say I hate all Muslims for the crimes of a few, would be the same as saying I hate the Catholics for bombing a MacDonalds on mother's day, in the UK, some years ago. You just can't hate an entire religion based on a minority. I was in the US twice last year and i do think something is going on there, the fear and the hate is, I hesitate to use the word 'irrational' but it certainly seems out of proportion and i think that has to be laid at the feet of the media there. I don't remember who said it, but the phrase 'The best way to control the population is to keep them living in fear' ( the words aren't accurate, but the idea is there) does seem to be working in the US

For those who don't know, the Catholics that bombed MacDonalds KNOWING it would be filled with children, were the IRA, and their political arm, Sinn Fein, used to fund raise, quite heavily, in the US.

Just for the record: Do i hate and fear the IRA? Yes! With a fire that has not dimmed in over 20 years. Can I hate and fear all Catholics because of it? Absolutely not!

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I don't live in the US but i did grow up in the UK, so for me to say I hate all Muslims for the crimes of a few, would be the same as saying I hate the Catholics for bombing a MacDonalds on mother's day, in the UK, some years ago. You just can't hate an entire religion based on a minority. I was in the US twice last year and i do think something is going on there, the fear and the hate is, I hesitate to use the word 'irrational' but it certainly seems out of proportion and i think that has to be laid at the feet of the media there. I don't remember who said it, but the phrase 'The best way to control the population is to keep them living in fear' ( the words aren't accurate, but the idea is there) does seem to be working in the US

For those who don't know, the Catholics that bombed MacDonalds KNOWING it would be filled with children, were the IRA, and their political arm, Sinn Fein, used to fund raise, quite heavily, in the US.

Just for the record: Do i hate and fear the IRA? Yes! With a fire that has not dimmed in over 20 years. Can I hate and fear all Catholics because of it? Absolutely not!

The big spin on this thread is hating the terrorists is the same as hating all Muslims. Turned toward your example, you now by default hate all Catholics and all Irishmen. Now we could have new thread on that. 19 pages, 275 comments. 135 comments telling you how you feel and that you play a part in causing those children's death do to your bigoted intolerance and 135 comments of you saying that's not what you said and 5 comments like this one. That's how it goes.

Edited by -Mr_Fess-

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Well I think you misunderstand. You claim that Israel has less diversity and therefore it is more important to use racial profiling. That's doesn't make any sense.

I never stated or insinuated it is more important for Israel to use racial profiling. In fact I only mentioned "racial profiling" twice and in different contexts:

(1."That is the reason we check everyone, not to avoid racial profiling, but because anyone could be an unwittingly carrier of an IED." and 2.Also Israel itself understands racial profiling is an issue, they are looking for solutions, at least certain quarters within their society are, and in time we will see them.)

You seem to be obsessed with race but reread all my statements regarding "profiling" in the light of the knowledge that there are different forms of profiling: mainly under the umbrella of "predictive profiling" which does not include "racial profiling".

And why would Israeli security measures not work? I mean beside your belief that it's not needed.

Self-admittedly I know less about Israeli profiling programs than I do about our own domestic profiling programs but I will gather what I can for you.

I was working off the assumption that you thought of Israeli profiling "as racial/religious profiling where they only search those who look like Arabs." That might not be totally accurate after all...but generally seems to apply if we ignore all the other programs they have.

Your question was already answered: "Well Israel is vastly more homogenous than America. They have less diversity in both citizenry and visitors as well as volume of both. Their system of profiling will not look like ours. This is not a defense of their system but an attempt to understand their system in comparison to ours."

Now to specifically answer your question, with more detail, since it seems required:

1. Israel has around 8 million citizens and we have over 315 million. [link] [link]

2. Israel has 1 major airport while we have around 450. [link]

3. Israel has around 6 to10 million passengers pass through their airport, we have around 770 million. [link] [link]

4. Israeli airlines contribute to the cost of security. The American government pays 100%.

5. Israel pays 10 times more on security measures than America does per passenger. $76.92 vs $7.80 per passenger, respectively. [link]

6. Israel has an easier time identifying who is Israeli than we would identifying who is an American. While many Israelis travel with more ease we would not be able to guarantee that all Americans would travel with ease.

Bruce Schneier, who has testified before congress more than once, whom the TSA felt so threatened by they blocked him from offering testimony at last years congressional hearings, thoroughly agreed with the following assessment and even reblogged it.

"On the other hand, no matter how safe or how wonderful the flying experience on El Al, it is TINY airline by U.S. standards, with only 38 aircraft, 46 destinations, and fewer than two million passengers in 2008. As near as I can tell, Cairo is their only destination in a majority Muslim country. Delta, before the Northwest merger is included, reported 449 aircraft and 375 destinations.Ben Gurion Airport is Israel’s primary (not only) international gateway. In 2008, Ben Gurion served 11.1 million international passengers and 470,000 domestic passengers, roughly comparable to the 10 million total served at Sacramento, the airport I use most often. Amsterdam served 47.4 million total, and Detroit served 35.1 million total in 2008.By American standards, in terms of passengers served, Ben Gurion is a busy regional airport."

Simply put, the Israeli airport security model does not scale.

Schneier on Security

You are taking one specific, exceptional case and trying to make a general rule.

I am not making exceptions, our federal agencies are.

I am explaining how I learned it, the justification that was given to us, because someone will inevitably ask during training, "Even pregnant women have to be screened the same way?"

That is the reason even pregnant women are screened here: Anne Marie Murphy was 6 months pregnant. That was in 1986 and occurred at Heathrow. We were lucky.

Israel itself had an earlier and more devastating wake up call that caused them to move away from purely ethnic profiling.

Allow Chameleon Associates to explain it to you.

In the 1960s through to the early 1970s, Israeli security was using mostly ethnic profiling to have some of its Arab population go through more rigorous security procedures than others. To this day, Israel has these procedures in place, however, the main focus of its security system relies on non-ethnic, non-racial, threat-oriented profiling.

Why the change?

The shift is due mainly to an incident that caught Israeli security agencies by surprise. The PFLP (Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine) teamed up with the Japanese Red Army (Nihon Sekigun) in 1972 to attack the Ben Gurion Airport. Three Japanese terrorists boarded an Air France flight from Paris to Tel Aviv on May 30. 1972. Upon arrival in Israel, they passed through security, customs and police without being detected as suspicious or threatening (they did not belong to a high risk ethnic or racial population). At the baggage claim area, they opened their luggage, pulled out automatic weapons and hand grenades and opened fire on everyone in sight.

Eighty were wounded and twenty six murdered in what was later referred to as the Lod Massacre.

http://chameleonasso...y-of-profiling/

You expect me to believe that? Look at the hot water U.S. police departments get into for using racial profiling. The same goes with federal departments.

You can believe as you desire. I have no expectations. I strive for accuracy.

Wow that's some pretty sophisticated measures, can you give me an example where an Islamic terrorist "looked exactly like us, blending in so well"?

Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev.

You are talking about the Middle and Near East. I'm talking securing about the West.

My original statement was: "The average suicide bombing requires no consideration of some of those elements since they only have to run or drive up to a guard booth and not sneak in past one as well as into the general population."

I am talking about both Middle Eastern and Western forms. The mistake was mine for using "guard booth" twice instead of using "check point" (the kind found at our airports).

The situation described in the latter portion of my statement contains the same element of sneaking into the general population and applies to our domestic situation.

Now if one wants to quibble over such things instead of discussing the overall elaborate situation, I understand and will proceed accordingly. I am also more accustomed to paragraphs than one liners in discussions.

You can doubt anything you wish as well. The general reader can decide what has been brought to the table between us. Thank you for the discussion and have a good evening.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!

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