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Avatar Samantha Ai

Croatians attempt to supress minority rights

106 posts in this topic

Im short on time Atentutankh-pasheri so I will come back once to respond to your post.

3rd dot-Simply because European powers didnt have courage to help Croats. And they have had responsibility to react when Serbia attack us. Then Croats look for new allies.

And there was Clinton and his administaration. Europe didnt wont to support us because Serbia (once) good relations with UK and France. So they stop Germany support for us.

Europe was insecure due French, Netherlands, UK + Russia sympathy for Serbia.

Nothing would happened if US didnt allow attack. We can play nice and lie each other but I will say frankly here. Nothing in world happened without major leauge players.

When you want to make war, even to free your country, you must get green light from international community.

Once US gave support to Croats, they moved our cuffs and we crush agressors.

So to make you simplfy- its called -Diplomacy.

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http://en.wikipedia....i/Ante_Gotovina

Never read just the first line of wiki folks.

The brutalization of the Krajina Serbs is well-known to anybody who followed the Yugoslavian conflict in detail. However, you are correct that our mass media largely ignored it. They were too busy painting the Serbs alone as the bad guys.

In general, Serbia got a very rough deal with our politicians and media --- although really the other partys to the conflict behaved worse. Go figure.

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Posted (edited)

I dont see signatures. I turn off that function.

No one say that Serbs dont have their own unique culture, tradition and history. As every ethnic group.

But I love my Domovina (Homeland) more. :D Click to enlarge.

90dpcm.jpg

Edited by the L
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Posted (edited)

They were too busy painting the Serbs alone as the bad guys.

Did you ever ask yourself why NATO bomb Serbia?

I guess you dont follow Yugoslavian conflict in detail as you want to represent yourself here.

Edited by the L
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Im short on time Atentutankh-pasheri so I will come back once to respond to your post.

3rd dot-Simply because European powers didnt have courage to help Croats. And they have had responsibility to react when Serbia attack us. Then Croats look for new allies.

And there was Clinton and his administaration. Europe didnt wont to support us because Serbia (once) good relations with UK and France. So they stop Germany support for us.

Europe was insecure due French, Netherlands, UK + Russia sympathy for Serbia.

Nothing would happened if US didnt allow attack. We can play nice and lie each other but I will say frankly here. Nothing in world happened without major leauge players.

When you want to make war, even to free your country, you must get green light from international community.

Once US gave support to Croats, they moved our cuffs and we crush agressors.

So to make you simplfy- its called -Diplomacy.

You are partly correct about not much major happening unless major powers wish it to happen. But what exactly was General Cosic doing in Washington talking to General Clark, who at time was, I think, commander of NATO forces in Europe. Did Clark have cosy chat with Mladic or any Serbs? I think not, so we see bias at highest level against Serbs. And any time I mention MPRI there is no response or no rational response. And I never even mentioned about German generals behind the scenes. And to say there was sympathy for Serbs from France, Nederlands, UK and US is not born out by events. I see NATO jets in the skies, but no Russian. Serbs never even got any military support from Russia except a few hundred Cossacks, mostly from Don I think, acting as individuals. And before conflating events, the VDV battalion went into Kosovo to prevent massacres of Serbs by Albanians and a NATO take over of Kosovo. They were a "Line in the sand" against appaling US/UK and German aggression aginst Serbs in Kosovo.

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Oh hi everybody, nothing to see here so please move along. I'm just putting defences in place for the firestorm about to land on me in a few hours 66e3c3c891c2.gif

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@ L

I do appreciate your patriotism and your efforts.

I don’t think I have to say that, but let it be said anyway: I will always try to work with you in the interest of our country. I expect the same from you, even if that means we both have to sacrifice some of our giant egos :D

Now, why should we let Serbs live in Croatia? Because Croatia is the homeland of Croatian Serbs. They have Serbia as country they think is the country of their historic origin (no offence meant, there are serious theories soon to be proven true or false with genetic research, that imply Orthodox religion was not correct criteria for determining Serbian ethnicity). But their homeland is Croatia, as general Gotovina said himself.

@ both L and Britney

I agree with L, it’s outrageous to even attempt to compare Arkan and general Gotovina.

General Gotovina was cleared of charges in International Court that was not particularly fond of Croats and I was one of those people worried the purpose of said Court was to falsify history once again.

Luckily, I was partially wrong. (More than enough Serbian war criminals, such as infamous Šljivančanin, were let off the hook.)

@ Atentutankh-pasheri

Expected attacks are the waste of time, energy and resources :D

Generally speaking, Croats are not offended with implications NATO was involved in planning operation Storm, why wouldn’t that be true? There’s nothing mysterious in coordinating Croatian army actions with NATO, after all we are NATO member finally and were working on becoming one back in the 1990s.

The other kind of implications, that come from Serbian side, that NATO forces actively helped operation Storm are not offensive either, we find them hilarious, because chetniks are so embarrassed with the speed they run away from the battle and out of Croatia they had to invent excuses for why they were running so fast... and came up with whole NATO attacking them.

Well, that’s just not true. It was small but determined Croatian army, with huge advantage of being on their own territory and being sick and tired of Serbian terror.

The refugees are the victims of this war, all of them. All of them.

I saw refugees of all nations involved in our conflicts and they looked the same. They were people made homeless, worried to death for the loved ones they lost contact with, with the damn “izbjeglička torba” (refugee bag). Our markets were full of cheap large plastic bags with tartan motif, probably all came from the same ship container from China and it was so common to see fleeing people with few randomly picked items of clothing, photos, some food... in “izbjeglička torba”.

To this very day, I can’t stand to see one of those damn bags. And they keep selling them, because they are cheap and practical.

I always found bargaining with the numbers of refugees disgusting, so I appeal on people in love with the number 300,000 to think about the empty villages or villages emptied of Croats or Bosniaks. If the number of our refugees was lower than yours, then why there are deserted villages or towns ethnically cleansed of non-Serbian population?

Official Serbian stance was denying ethnic cleansing until today.

And today, Tomislav Nikolić, current Serbian president, made completely dishonest but also completely direct apology: “I am kneeling here, begging pardon for people who committed crimes in the name of Serbia.”

No turning back anymore.

Reality check is about to strike.

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@ Atentutankh-pasheri

Expected attacks are the waste of time, energy and resources :D

Ladno, then I'm off to 359a0eb94224.gif

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My understanding of the situation is that during WW2 Croatians put on Nazi uniforms and went and genocided Serbs. Then the international community tried to restore peace to the Balklands by creating Yugoslavia. The Croatians rebelled in 1991 starting yet another conflict in the region. Serbia, angry at the genocide and rebellion, then got its revenge by killing Croatians.

It seems to me Croatians moan a lot at Miloevic but in truth he was a great leader. He didnt take any nonsense of them and sent his forces in to kick butt. It always seems to be Croatia starting wars and killing other people. We find them at it again now with trying to surpress minority rights.

Your understanding does not reflect the actual happening.

1991 was the culmination, the answer, to Milosevics politic and aspirations since 1987.

1987 marks the beginning of the end of Yugoslavija which was destroyed by those who apparently wanted to save it, the srebs.

I see that the serbian propaganda still works for some, unfortunately.

Buddy, chetnics were nazi colaborators, not freedom fighters.

The first partizans consisted mainly of croats, slovens, jews, muslims and some srebs. In late 1943 Tito declared amnesty for all who colaborated with nazis if they join partizans, hence the all of a sudden huge number of srebs joining the partizan ranks because they realized the strength of Titos partizans and the anti nazi recognition they recieved by Great Britain which suspended the help to chetnics when they gathered enough proof of chetnic colaboration with the nazis.

Please do not equate serbs with chetnics.

Patriotic serbs fought alongside croats and bosniacs against milosevics politic of destruction. Hell, the general in comand of the bosnian army was a serb, the comander of the defence of Sarajevo was a serb, both still alive and considered traitors by radical srebs.

Buddy, I can not discuss physics, I do not understand it. In this contest do not discuss balkans, you do not understand it.

Cheers.

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Posted (edited)

It would be very wrong for anybody to read the post above this and think that Croats were all freedom loving democrats fighting for the Allies during the war. All sides were monsters, not just one, here is the reality check.

http://en.wikipedia....rg/wiki/Ustaše

And for those who cannot be bothered to click the link, here is a photo of Ustase leader Ante Pavelic shaking hands with Hitler.

cee7f727abd9.jpg

And with Mussolini. Probably one with him with the Devil as well somewhere....

9afc9e8b72b2.jpg

Edited by Atentutankh-pasheri
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You ask about Vojvodina and signs with Hungarian?

4vh34w.jpg

[...]

Thanks for info.

I wanted to bring some more questions (in my fashion - cynical), but I'll refrain from this, cause too much wounds aren't healed yet.

Peace, folks, on everyside.

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Atentutankh-pasheri, Sir, why do you think bringing more fuel to the fire will solve problem? If there were no Russian folks collaborating with Nazis...

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Atentutankh-pasheri, Sir, why do you think bringing more fuel to the fire will solve problem? If there were no Russian folks collaborating with Nazis...

Not about Russia. The post I made reference to is so ridiculously one sided that it needed rectifying. I have not taken sides here, simply pointed out some very serious omissions. I am very aware that problems between Croats and Serbs will not be solved here, or anywhere, for a long time. The fire was already fully stoked, I have simply warmed myself in the glow as I was bored :)

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[...]

will not be solved here, or anywhere, for a long time.[...]

I believe (hate that word) it will, in shorter times than you expect...

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Aw, lord, not again...

Aten, a picture speaks thousand words, so picture Serbian “Prince” Pavle riding in a Mercedes with Hitler because I really don’t feel like keeping that abomination of a photo in my files and I have better things to do than to search for it for the umpteenth time.

Hungarian issue is not to be skipped here, because Hungarian minority in Vojvodina wasn’t a minority at all, Vojvodina population before English-engineered serbification were Hungarians, Donau Schwaben (Germans), Croats, Bunjevci (Croats too), Romanians, oh, and some Serbs too.

After WWI the first expropriation of native populations and colonisation of Serbs, after WWII the second wave of the same turned Vojvodina into Serbian province.

Germans and Hungarians were collectively guilty of WWII, so they were killed or driven out of their homes. In some instances, Bosnian Serbs were landing into still furnished houses with fresh blood stains, left by previous owners who were indeed guilty only of not being Serbs.

Serbia today is desperately trying to keep the collective guilt gimmick alive because if they don’t, if it turns out you can’t be guilty of anything just because you were born into the same nation as someone completely else – if that fails, Serbia will have to return the stolen property or pay reparations.

Personally, I won’t claim any of the land that used to belong to my ancestors in the Apatin region, consider it a gift, cheapskates, and give Hungarians, Croats and other minorities their rights.

Nominally, they have their rights, but the ugly truth is that it’s still dangerous to be a non-Serb in Serbia today.

Browse news here and there and you’ll see barricades in Kosovo, Molotov cocktails at foreign, especially Croatian embassies in Belgrade, burnt down offices of minority parties in Vojvodina, protestors with knives in their hands, singing the same butcher songs, promising death to non-Serbs...

Are you beginning to understand how much patience the neighbours had with Serbs and their outdated chauvinist and violent methods?

If you think Croatian veterans looked threatening, glance at an average chetnik parade.

Serbia as political entity must change its ways – because of themselves, not because of me.

They were living on hypocrisy and myth for nearly 100 years, since 1918, so it sure must be difficult to adapt to new rules of the game, but the ability to adapt is the sign of intelligence.

Don’t make the neighbourhood think you’re... not intelligent.

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[...]

Serbia today is desperately trying to keep the collective guilt gimmick alive because if they don’t, if it turns out you can’t be guilty of anything just because you were born into the same nation as someone completely else – if that fails, Serbia will have to return the stolen property or pay reparations.

[...]

As always "big brothers" do, eerie feeling.
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@ L

I do appreciate your patriotism and your efforts.

I don’t think I have to say that, but let it be said anyway: I will always try to work with you in the interest of our country. I expect the same from you, even if that means we both have to sacrifice some of our giant egos :D

Now, why should we let Serbs live in Croatia? Because Croatia is the homeland of Croatian Serbs. They have Serbia as country they think is the country of their historic origin (no offence meant, there are serious theories soon to be proven true or false with genetic research, that imply Orthodox religion was not correct criteria for determining Serbian ethnicity). But their homeland is Croatia, as general Gotovina said himself.

.

Now why we should let them have cyrillic signs? Its not MUST thing. Its our good will. I think they didnt earn it. Thats all.

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Atentutankh-pasheri,

Please, I think you have much history knowledge to know that Pavelić has nothing to do with ex-Yugolavia wars.

2nd please, dont play naive. If Russians could get up their airplanes to help Serbia they would done it.

Many factors why didnt. But they helped Serbia.

Same as they helped Egypt vs Israel, Syria vs al Qaida,France,USA, same as they help North Vietnam vs USA, same as they help Gjap vs French in Indochina. To name a few.

At least we two agrees that cold war never ended.

But ex Yugolavia wasnt proxy war as Syria.

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Helen I agree we must cooperate better. Although I dont think we need to put much effort. Everything is crystal clear.

If someone did came with some disorted history I promise, we will become hive minded. :alien:

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Posted (edited)

Now why we should let them have cyrillic signs? Its not MUST thing. Its our good will. I think they didnt earn it. Thats all.

Precisely because it is our good will.

Thanks to our veterans of the Homeland war, we are finally in the situation that allows us to act based on good will.

Let’s be generous. Because we can.

And we were generous so far, pardoning those who should and those who really no one sane would pardon.

I appeal the sane Serbs are let to live normal lives in peace, which was the case so far – not to be mistaken with letting certain politicians whose only platform is being Serbs apply the same mythomania they applied since 1918.

In short, Cyrillic in schools for children whose parents wish so – yes. No one protested that, by the way.

Plastering Vukovar with Cyrillic signs of distasteful proportions – no. That's what protest was about.

What we must do is be careful and not allow Greater Serbian adherents to drag us down to their primordial level. We are better than that.

Edit: Unless they start first again, of course. I don’t want my benevolence mistaken for weakness :D

So they don’t say later they thought I won’t fight back so that makes me genocidal :lol:

Edited by Helen of Annoy

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2285db054f7e.gif

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2285db054f7e.gif

What you laughing at? It was all your fault.

Now they can’t have their precioussssss Kosovo back, even if Toma Grobar rides in cabriolet with Putin. And judging by his recent kneeling in front of Bosniaks, Toma was denied further ride on Russian expense.

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Posted (edited)

2285db054f7e.gif

[media=]

[/media]

Helen now you can laugh too. :innocent:

Edited by the L

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People, laugh, life is too short 372b4e0ef069.gif

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