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Jor-el

The Woman clothed with the Sun...

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Posted (edited)

woman12.jpg

Revelation 12:1-6

The Woman and the Dragon

1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. 2 She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth. 3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. 4 His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it. 5 She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne, 6 and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days.

I would like your comments regarding this text and what it means to you...

Personally I would like to share with you something that I found interesting regarding this text. While the imagery is well known, it is not commonly known that the symbology and imagery of this text has everything to do with a specific time period in the past. Specifically it relates to a specifc day:

The 11th of Septemeber, 3 B.C.E

How so might one ask, by using a specific subject called archaeoastronomy we find that this imagery was once reflected in the sky by the stars on that specific day. It also happened to be the 1st of Tishri, the Jewish New Year, also known as Rosh Hoshana. It is the first of the High Holy Days or Yamim Nora'im (Days of Awe) which usually occur in the early autumn of the Northern Hemisphere. The day is believed to be the anniversary of the creation of Adam and Eve, the first man and woman, and their first actions toward the realization of mankind’s role in God's world. Rosh Hashanah customs include sounding the shofar, which is why it is also called the day of Trumpets.

stellarium002.png

So, what is so special about this day, that it stands out in the bible?

It is the birthday of Jesus Christ.

Edited by Jor-el
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And you came to this conclusion, how? I'd be interested to have the date setting explained.

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Off the top of my head I would say she is obviously linked to the old pagan wisdom schools through astrology (twelve stars) and alchemy (sun/moon) while the dragon representing the profane had already wiped out a third of the gods. God has to act quick or the child of knowledge would be dead. She retreats to the woods where she is able to build up and gather knowledge for the future.

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Isis.jpgRosarium-mercurial-dove-24.jpg

Had something like that in mind.

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And you came to this conclusion, how? I'd be interested to have the date setting explained.

Well, that involves some lengthy explanations on a number of subjects, which form the core group of signs and accompanying information that can place the date into its proper setting.

Basically there are 3 parts to the context.

1. Astronomy

2. History

3. The biblical record

Regarding the 1st part, I have already provided one part of the information that is found in Revelation. It is essentially the key that unlocks the rest of the context. There is more though. At the same time that this solar lunar conjunction with Virgo is happening, there are two other occurences, which allow us to place the date with confidence.

Above Virgo, there is another constellation, we call it Leo which is as we know associated with the title The lion of Judah. Most people ignore the fact that the ancient Israelites were keen followers of the stars and the astrology of that time. They did not adhere to the astrology as we know it today, which is total BS, buty those symbols in the night sky had great meaning to them. Each and every Israelite tribe had a sign that symbolized their tribe, and they used the 12 great constellations that are today known as the astrological signs:

Reuben, 'boiling over with water,' is Aquarius

Simeon and Levi, 'the brethren,' are Gemini, the Twins

Judah,'the lion's whelp,' is Leo, the Lion

Zebulon, 'who shall dwell at the beach of the sea,' is Pisces, the Fish

Issachar, 'a gelded donkey lying down in the cattle pens (REB)' is Taurus (the Bull)

Dan, 'a serpent in the way,' is Scorpio (the Scorpion)

Gad, 'a troop shall press upon him; but he shall press upon their heel,' is Aries (the Ram).

Asher, 'the weigher of bread,' is Libra, the Scales

Nephtali, 'a hind let loose,' is Capricorn, the Goat

Joseph, 'whose bow abides in strength,' is Sagittarius, the Archer

Benjamin, 'ravening as a wolf, devouring his prey by morning, dividing the spoil at night,' is Cancer, the Crab

The 12 sons have been named but one sign remains- Virgo (the Virgin). This sign is 'veiled,' and is correlated with Dinah, Jacob's daughter (Gen 30:21).

The beginning of these events was in September 14th, 3 B.C. On this date the following happened...

stellarium000.png

Jupiter had a conjunction with the star Regulus, which belongs to the constellation of Leo. Jupiter, known as the "King Planet" at that time as well as today, came to occupy a position of extreme proximity to to Regulus known as the "King Star". Regulus has always had a connection to Royalty and Kingship.

As the brightest star in Leo, Regulus has been almost universally associated in ancient cultures with the concept of royal or kingly power. The name Regulus actually comes from the Latin rex, or king. The star was known in Arabia as Malikiyy, the Kingly One; in Greece as the "Star of the King"; in ancient Babylon, as Sharru or the King; to the even more ancient Akkadians of Mesopotamia it represented Amil-gal-ur, the legendary King of the Celestial Sphere who ruled before the great flood.

The constellation of Leo has a number of interesting characteristics, 1st it is biblically the constellation of the tribe of Judah. Each tribe had its own symbol and each symbol is reflected in a constelletation. Leo, was Judahs Symbol. Furthermore, Regulus itself has always been connected biblically to the Messiah.

Genesis 49:10

10 The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet,

until he to whom it belongs shall come and the obedience of the nations shall be his.

What most people fail to realize is that this verse is actually connecting the Messiah to Regulus, the King star between Leos paws. ;)

Source

Now, conjunctions are relatively frequent, what is not frequent is a triple conjunction between a fixed star and a planet. In this case, Jupiter had a conjunction with Regulus on September the 14, 3 B.C.

It then moved away and came back due to retrograde motion and visited Regulus again on February 17th, 2 B.C and did this a 3rd time on May 8th to the 9th, 2 B.C. Yet things did not stop there.

After the planet’s three separate conjunctions with Regulus, Jupiter then continued its westward journey (as observers would have viewed it on earth). On June 17, 2 B.C. it had a spectacularly rare reunion with Venus. The two planets were then a mere .01 degrees from one another and they would have appeared to people on earth like a single “double-star” which only the sharpest eyes would have been able to separate. To people it would have looked like a single star that had the combined brightness of both Venus and Juptiter, the two brightest objects in the sky.

As a matter of fact it was sufficiently bright to be visible even during the day and all still within the constellation of Leo. I would draw your attention that the Magi who would have taken predawn readings of the stars, would have seen these events happeneing in the EAST. Therfore this is the direction they would have travelled.

stellarium001.png

This is the iconic image of the Star of Bethlehem that everyone percieves in their minds, and its origin was here on this day of June 17th 2 B.C. Yet it is only a part of the whole story. It is this planetary conjunction between Venus (The Mother Planet) and Jupiter (The King Planet) in the region of Regulus (The King Star) in the constellation of Leo (The tribe of Judah) that inspired the Magi to start on their Journey in an Easterly drection.

Here is an interesting article on the Magi and who and what they were... Link

Now many ask why others, like king Herod didn't see this amazing star of Bethlehem?

The King did not notice anything until the Magi arrived because he was not a Magi and his astrologers were not Magi either, and they would not have seen the meaning of the events as reflected in the teachings and training the Magi recieved. As I said, an unusual event like a comet or any other surprising celestial event like a giant star would certainly have gotten everyones attention, if Herod wasn't aware of this, then it wasn't something completely out of the ordinary.

Now for the 3rd part of this phenomenon we call the star of bethlehem.

If the Magi had left soon after witnessing the conjunction that created the brightest star in the heavens for a few days in the East, they would have had to travel 1,287 Km (800 miles). They could have done this in 32 days if they had travelled an average distance of 40 km per day (25 miles). Since they were simply travelling westward and didn't have a clear destination they probably took a little longer. We know from Matthew 2:2 that when they arrived Jesus was no longer a baby infant but a child, and was living in Bethlehem, in a house (not a stable or a cave).

Therefore if they arrived sometime in November or December of 2 B.C., Jesus would have been around 1 year and 3 months old or according to other views at least 6 months old. This depends on whether one views his birth taking place at the beginning of these events or only when the planetarty conjunction happened in June 17th of 2 B.C.

Finally, if the Magi in Jerusalem, following Jupiter (The King Planet at is rising) had taken a view of that "star" at their normal time (predawn) they would have seen the star stop. Jupiter would have stopped due to retrograde motion and would seem to hang in the sky for a day or 2 before starting to move again.

Now guess what day it was that Jupiter "stopped in the heavens"? 25 December 2 B.C.

As an example of retrograde motion I will post this image of Mars and its motion in the Sky...

mars-orbit.jpg

And here is one of Jupiter and a number of other planets.... all of them stopping their motion in the sky.

retromon.gif

Here is some further information on retrograde motion... Moving worlds, Wandering stars

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You have misinterpreted this wrong.

Go back to Joseph and his life to find the answer.

The stars above her head are her children.

This woman will have 12 children.

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the 12 stars are the 12 tribes of Israel crowning the Queen Mother, Mother Mary, the Child is Jesus the Christ. The Woman/Queen Mother also represents the entire church and Israel itself (since it is taught that Mary is the neck of the church, where Jesus is the Head in the body of Christ) Mary as the top of the church in Authority after Jesus (since she's the Queen Mother) is the one representing Israel in this passage......after the abomination is set up in the Temple in Jerusalem and the anit-christ declares he is god, he will make war upon the saints and seek to destroy Israel all together.... the 1,260 days is the same as the 1,290 days given in the book of Daniel, it's the tail end, 3 1/2 years of the 7 years of tribulation..... God sustaining/nourishing the woman in the wilderness is telling us that God will provide for the people of Israel during this last 3 1/2 years where they will be in hiding and be hunted down by their enemies....

Daniel Chapter 12:

10Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

13But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

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Posted (edited)

This prophesy concerns the returning messiah. The messianic mission ended for Israel as a group after Christ was crucified.

Edited by Irrelevant

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the 12 stars are the 12 tribes of Israel crowning the Queen Mother, Mother Mary, the Child is Jesus the Christ. The Woman/Queen Mother also represents the entire church and Israel itself (since it is taught that Mary is the neck of the church, where Jesus is the Head in the body of Christ) Mary as the top of the church in Authority after Jesus (since she's the Queen Mother) is the one representing Israel in this passage......after the abomination is set up in the Temple in Jerusalem and the anit-christ declares he is god, he will make war upon the saints and seek to destroy Israel all together.... the 1,260 days is the same as the 1,290 days given in the book of Daniel, it's the tail end, 3 1/2 years of the 7 years of tribulation..... God sustaining/nourishing the woman in the wilderness is telling us that God will provide for the people of Israel during this last 3 1/2 years where they will be in hiding and be hunted down by their enemies....

Daniel Chapter 12:

10Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

13But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

The twelve stars are the brothers of Joseph and they did bow down before him in Egypt.

This woman will not be a mother but the Eve of the returning Adam.

He will complete what was not able to be done, only a new wine skin will be able to receive them.

Secondly this Adam will also suffer much and be rejected. Luke 17 24-25.

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The twelve stars are the brothers of Joseph and they did bow down before him in Egypt.

This woman will not be a mother but the Eve of the returning Adam.

He will complete what was not able to be done, only a new wine skin will be able to receive them.

Secondly this Adam will also suffer much and be rejected. Luke 17 24-25.

Mother Mary is the new Eve. Jesus is the new Adam, says so in Romans.

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Posted (edited)

So mother Mary is going to have her bones reconstructed, rise out of the ground or is she coming in her own cloud first since a mother must come first?

The Eve will be called Mother just as We call Jesus Father. The titles would have been given to Adam and Eve had they not fallen.

Jesus was the second Adam, the second tree of life..in his own words Jesus says " I am the tree of Life" is it possible Adam was the tree of life since Jesus was the tree of life. And since Jesus is the tree of life is it also possible the tree of the good and evil was actually Eve ( fruit: Kane and Abel ).

And what of these other 12 trees that surrounded to two trees in the middle..

It don't matter, I know it's a big jump for many and I'm pointing out the various symbolism. Symbolism also demonstrated by the woman with 12 stars above her head and how it relates to the dream of Joseph.

But this is relevant in some way..

Did the actual Elijah come back before Jesus as was promised? If so , who was he? Since this is the very reason why the Jewish don't accept Jesus was the messiah to this day! ( Read that again ) Where and who was Elijah if he had to return first.

Even to this day the eldest boy in a Jewish house must go out on the street before dinner and check to see if Elijah has returned..calling " Elijah where are you, are you here!"

It's important this question as it demonstrates a few principles.

Edited by Irrelevant

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The woman is Israel, the twelve stars are the tribes of Israel, the child is Christ and the moon under her feet is false religion in defeat. It is a picture of the end state for mankind. This is how it was explained to me - that and a buck fifty will buy you a cup of decent coffee :yes:

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So mother Mary is going to have her bones reconstructed, rise out of the ground or is she coming in her own cloud first since a mother must come first?

The Eve will be called Mother just as We call Jesus Father. The titles would have been given to Adam and Eve had they not fallen.

Jesus was the second Adam, the second tree of life..in his own words Jesus says " I am the tree of Life" is it possible Adam was the tree of life since Jesus was the tree of life. And since Jesus is the tree of life is it also possible the tree of the good and evil was actually Eve ( fruit: Kane and Abel ).

And what of these other 12 trees that surrounded to two trees in the middle..

It don't matter, I know it's a big jump for many and I'm pointing out the various symbolism. Symbolism also demonstrated by the woman with 12 stars above her head and how it relates to the dream of Joseph.

But this is relevant in some way..

Did the actual Elijah come back before Jesus as was promised? If so , who was he? Since this is the very reason why the Jewish don't accept Jesus was the messiah to this day! ( Read that again ) Where and who was Elijah if he had to return first.

Even to this day the eldest boy in a Jewish house must go out on the street before dinner and check to see if Elijah has returned..calling " Elijah where are you, are you here!"

It's important this question as it demonstrates a few principles.

Lol. You REALLY need a theology lesson... I don't know what in the world your going on about with bones being reconstructed??? What in the world are you talking about? The Catholics teach from a story handed down from the Apostles and written down around 300 AD, that Mary died, but then was resurrected and taken up into Heaven to be with Jesus, once in Heaven she was crowned Queen of Heaven. Mary is the new Eve because she gave birth to Jesus Christ who was the new Sinless Man, the new Adam, through him were all the sins attoned for, giving life to mankind again. Since she is Jesus's mother and ALL of our Spiritual Mother, and gave birth to a child without sin, she is the New Eve! Jesus is the new Adam.

The 12 stars are the 12 tribes of Israel, they carry the names of Joseph and his brothers, but it isn't a carry over from Genesis...

And John The Baptist was Elijah coming before Christ, part of Elijah's spirit was given to John, just like part of his spirit was given to his pupil, Elisha...

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Well I just finished my coffee

So we have established John the Baptist is Elijah ?

There is no doubt in you John the Baptist is Elijah?

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Lol. You REALLY need a theology lesson... I don't know what in the world your going on about with bones being reconstructed??? What in the world are you talking about? The Catholics teach from a story handed down from the Apostles and written down around 300 AD, that Mary died, but then was resurrected and taken up into Heaven to be with Jesus, once in Heaven she was crowned Queen of Heaven. Mary is the new Eve because she gave birth to Jesus Christ who was the new Sinless Man, the new Adam, through him were all the sins attoned for, giving life to mankind again. Since she is Jesus's mother and ALL of our Spiritual Mother, and gave birth to a child without sin, she is the New Eve! Jesus is the new Adam.

The 12 stars are the 12 tribes of Israel, they carry the names of Joseph and his brothers, but it isn't a carry over from Genesis...

And John The Baptist was Elijah coming before Christ, part of Elijah's spirit was given to John, just like part of his spirit was given to his pupil, Elisha...

So your a catholic, well I'm Jesuite , and JEPD is proven tripe.

Also in the 70s the teaching about Mary being a prostitute was wound back and changed..the church admitted they got it wrong.

However just like the Catholic Church got that wrong so was this explanation you just gave because its clearly states she gives birth to the one who will rule the world with a rod of Iron, and this is also clear to be the returning lord and somebody other than Jesus, in fact he is spoken of by Jesus saying " he will not teach in parables but speak plainly of the Father"

I can understand you wish to put forward the official position, but what makes you think it's infallible if even somebody as important as marry can be painted a prostitute?

This prophesy about the woman with 12 stars is clear to be about somebody external to Marry, Just as the one who rules with a rod or Iron, the spirit of truth, the return of Messiah is clear about somebody not Jesus.

If its so please explain how Jesus rules with a rod of Iron and has one foot on Land and the other on the Sea?

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Off the top of my head I would say she is obviously linked to the old pagan wisdom schools through astrology (twelve stars) and alchemy (sun/moon) while the dragon representing the profane had already wiped out a third of the gods. God has to act quick or the child of knowledge would be dead. She retreats to the woods where she is able to build up and gather knowledge for the future.

Isis.jpgRosarium-mercurial-dove-24.jpg

Had something like that in mind.

How would she be linked to the old pagan wisom schools, How do they identify her, what are the symbols surrounding her?

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So your a catholic, well I'm Jesuite , and JEPD is proven tripe.

Also in the 70s the teaching about Mary being a prostitute was wound back and changed..the church admitted they got it wrong.

However just like the Catholic Church got that wrong so was this explanation you just gave because its clearly states she gives birth to the one who will rule the world with a rod of Iron, and this is also clear to be the returning lord and somebody other than Jesus, in fact he is spoken of by Jesus saying " he will not teach in parables but speak plainly of the Father"

I can understand you wish to put forward the official position, but what makes you think it's infallible if even somebody as important as marry can be painted a prostitute?

This prophesy about the woman with 12 stars is clear to be about somebody external to Marry, Just as the one who rules with a rod or Iron, the spirit of truth, the return of Messiah is clear about somebody not Jesus.

If its so please explain how Jesus rules with a rod of Iron and has one foot on Land and the other on the Sea?

Yeah you sound like a Jesuit! haha! Im sure your one of those catholics who don't find anything wrong with the previous popes drinking and eating pagan offerings when they toured Africa and such right? You sound like that "type" of catholic...

Im sorry, but your just flat out wrong, your attempting to explain the meaning of a passage of scripture that you CLEARLY don't believe in because you don't even believe that Jesus is the Messiah or that he is going to rule the world upon his return. Therefore your making up your own meanings using your own disbelief in the place of the approved doctrine of the church.

Whether you go with the Catholic interpretation that the Woman is Mary with the 12 stars or the Protestant stance that it's the Church/body of Christ itself.... your interpretation is wrong, you are who will be deceived by the anti-Christ and the beast, your the one looking for a New Messiah to be born that isn't Jesus. You are not a Christian, you are not a Catholic. You are a heretic, a blasphemer, and a small anti-Christ in yourself from what your opinions are..... The sad thing about most catholics is that they don't read their bibles, therefore they come up with Ludacris interpretations of scripture... I had fully read my bible, the Apocrypha, the nag hamadi library, sefer yitzhira, Zohar, rabbinical seder, the book of enoch, all the lost non canonical scriptures I could find, the recently new released book of the three wise men, and an assortment of other religious texts.....all before becoming Catholic in the first place. Jesus is the one born who will come again and rule.

What Mary are you talking about? Magdalene? Not much is known about her in the first place, and she isn't that important of a figure scripturally speaking. I know she was thought of as a prostitute, but that wasn't based on scriptural fact instead on assumption and people filling in gaps. The Revelation Quote we are discussing is not in question, it's clear and plain as day if your looking at it through clear eyes...

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You have misinterpreted this wrong.

Go back to Joseph and his life to find the answer.

The stars above her head are her children.

This woman will have 12 children.

The symbology of the woman is not limited to only one particular reading. In fact it has a number of different readings.

The symbology of the woman with the stars over her head is indeed a symbol of Israel as can be found in Genesis 37:9–11, but that woman for example is not pregnant as is the case for Revelation 12. This introduction of a new element shifts the meaning of the symbol slightly, it is the nation of Israel that will bring forth the Messiah. It is she who will give birth to the child. But it is also a symbol for Mary, who was the actual mother of the Messiah. She was Jewish and the literal prophetic imagery fell to her as the mother of Jesus.

Both ideas express themselves concurrently within the symbols. No-one I think, denies that the child born is Jesus, so the symbol must include all the variants (Israel and Mary)

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The reason we established about John the Baptist being the spirit of Elijah is because the official position by these so called theologians is the very same about Jesus in his return..not the very same Jesus..yet that what you must have to believe, what if somebody who looked like him said he was! Oh dear what a situation...

Rather its the one who is in the spirit of Elijah, eg: John the Baptist..and the one who is in the spirit of Jesus.

So you probably expect the very same Jesus even though he says its somebody else and " he will not look like me" , Jesus talking about himself in the third person?

Therefore I assumed some already knew the woman with 12 stars is not Mary..that this whole prophecy is referred to the Returning Lord! but I was wrong.

Keep looking to the clouds, expect the dead to rise out of there graves , the moon to be darkened and so on...interestingly they know and recognise this is the age of the Returning Lord...the parable of the fig tree confirms this , perhaps just for a minute the Prophecy in Luke 17 24 is true? Is it any wonder this man would be rejected just as Jesus was? Perhaps even if he walked up to the Vatican itself and said he was him would they believe? Of course they would say " give us a miracle then!" What faith they would have, the demand for a miracle, did that convince the Pharisee ? Even Simon ( judas father rejected Jesus after he was healed)

Perhaps the modern church is in the same vain as the Pharisees in his day? Surely not? I would have thought the same for Jesus except he was killed by the very people he came for and is still rejected to this day by the Jews because they don't recognise John the Baptist was the Returning Elijah, John didn't help his cause by saying he wasn't I might add.

One things for sure no matter if the modern world united with the returning lord or not God will fulfil his promise and lead all into the truth. And perhaps that's why only 144 000 will be sealed?

Some scripture of interest :

"For in that day many will come to me saying, " Lord have we not cast out demons and done many wonders in your name," and I will turn to them and say depart from me you workers of inequity"

That's a sad prophecy, one I hope doesn't happen, when those who didn't recognise the returning lord actually worked against him..expecting just like the Jews for the actual return of Elijah and not John the Baptist..The actual return of the very same Jesus as well.

It's sad the way history repeats. Those who don't recognise the mistakes of the past are destined to repeat them.

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Lol. You REALLY need a theology lesson... I don't know what in the world your going on about with bones being reconstructed??? What in the world are you talking about? The Catholics teach from a story handed down from the Apostles and written down around 300 AD, that Mary died, but then was resurrected and taken up into Heaven to be with Jesus, once in Heaven she was crowned Queen of Heaven. Mary is the new Eve because she gave birth to Jesus Christ who was the new Sinless Man, the new Adam, through him were all the sins attoned for, giving life to mankind again. Since she is Jesus's mother and ALL of our Spiritual Mother, and gave birth to a child without sin, she is the New Eve! Jesus is the new Adam.

The 12 stars are the 12 tribes of Israel, they carry the names of Joseph and his brothers, but it isn't a carry over from Genesis...

And John The Baptist was Elijah coming before Christ, part of Elijah's spirit was given to John, just like part of his spirit was given to his pupil, Elisha...

Where in the bible does it speak of Marys death and that she is the Queen of Heaven?

If we are to accept that based on stories perpetuated by some people in the church, then shouldn't we also accept that jesus supposedly had a family with Mary Magdelene, since those stories also were around at the same time. Stories may make tradition and culture but they are not the basis of belief. For belief one has to rely on the bible and nowhere there does it say that Mary was any of these things.

Mary is not the New Eve....

Through a series of horrible theological errors, she is already the fourth member of the Trinity. The Father, Holy Spirit and Christ/Mary. For all intents and purposes, she is the one directing things in the cosmic dialog. Now, as elegant as the fantasy is, it is still a fantasy. Christ's (the Trinity's) words still ring true: "Woman, what has this got to do with you?'

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The Revelations verses come from/back up Psalm 2, which clearly identifies the coming King as God's Son, which Jesus is established as being.

Psalm 2:

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

This too I think sums it up enough that Jesus is the Christ and one spoken of in Revelations, He is the first and the last....

Revelations Chapter 1:

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Revelations Chapter 11:

15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

And who is our Lord and God's Christ? Jesus of Nazareth!!!!!!

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Mary is the new Eve. I don't believe she was born without sin as the catholic church teaches, I'll be the first to admit that the catholic church has gone off the deep end when it comes to nearly all of their Mary stuff they teach... But the one thing they got right is the Queen of Heaven and New Eve. Which even protestants should be able to fathom her as the new Eve, it's not something you have to write into anything, she is the Mother of Chirst, she is the spiritual Mother of all those who are born again, just like all older women of the church are.....but because she was the one who carried and brought forth our Christ it makes her the new Eve since he is the New Adam. It's common sense people. It's not like the Catholic's church crazy teaching that Mary is the co-redemptrix or anything like that!

And all of Mary's apparitions over the Millenia attest to her being raptured into Heaven...

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Well I just finished my coffee

So we have established John the Baptist is Elijah ?

There is no doubt in you John the Baptist is Elijah?

Matthew 11:11-15

11 Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence, and violent people have been raiding it. 13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. 15 Whoever has ears, let them hear.

So the answe is yes John the Baptist was the Elijah.... but he was not Elijah.

The Elijah.... to make ready a people prepared for the Lord

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I'd be interested to have the date setting explained.11.jpg

Explained in what way?

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The reason we established about John the Baptist being the spirit of Elijah is because the official position by these so called theologians is the very same about Jesus in his return..not the very same Jesus..yet that what you must have to believe, what if somebody who looked like him said he was! Oh dear what a situation...

Rather its the one who is in the spirit of Elijah, eg: John the Baptist..and the one who is in the spirit of Jesus.

So you probably expect the very same Jesus even though he says its somebody else and " he will not look like me" , Jesus talking about himself in the third person?

Therefore I assumed some already knew the woman with 12 stars is not Mary..that this whole prophecy is referred to the Returning Lord! but I was wrong.

Keep looking to the clouds, expect the dead to rise out of there graves , the moon to be darkened and so on...interestingly they know and recognise this is the age of the Returning Lord...the parable of the fig tree confirms this , perhaps just for a minute the Prophecy in Luke 17 24 is true? Is it any wonder this man would be rejected just as Jesus was? Perhaps even if he walked up to the Vatican itself and said he was him would they believe? Of course they would say " give us a miracle then!" What faith they would have, the demand for a miracle, did that convince the Pharisee ? Even Simon ( judas father rejected Jesus after he was healed)

Perhaps the modern church is in the same vain as the Pharisees in his day? Surely not? I would have thought the same for Jesus except he was killed by the very people he came for and is still rejected to this day by the Jews because they don't recognise John the Baptist was the Returning Elijah, John didn't help his cause by saying he wasn't I might add.

One things for sure no matter if the modern world united with the returning lord or not God will fulfil his promise and lead all into the truth. And perhaps that's why only 144 000 will be sealed?

Some scripture of interest :

"For in that day many will come to me saying, " Lord have we not cast out demons and done many wonders in your name," and I will turn to them and say depart from me you workers of inequity"

That's a sad prophecy, one I hope doesn't happen, when those who didn't recognise the returning lord actually worked against him..expecting just like the Jews for the actual return of Elijah and not John the Baptist..The actual return of the very same Jesus as well.

It's sad the way history repeats. Those who don't recognise the mistakes of the past are destined to repeat them.

We are expecting the same Jesus because he actually did say that he would return. Elijah had that said about him. It became a tradition based on secondary information rather than the personal words of the subject (Elijah). We do not have that problem with Jesus. He said of himself... I am the cloud Rider!

The very term "Cloud Rider", is a statement of Deity. Specifically of one particular Deity, Yahweh himself.

Isaiah 19:1 (ESV)

19 An oracle concerning Egypt.

Behold, YAHWEH is riding on a swift cloud

and comes to Egypt;

and the idols of Egypt will tremble at his presence,

and the heart of the Egyptians will melt within them

Deuteronomy 33:26 (ESV)

26 “There is none like EL, O Jeshurun,

who rides through the heavens to your help,

through the skies in his majesty.

Psalm 68:33 (ESV)

33 to Him who rides in the heavens, the ancient heavens;

behold, he sends out his voice, his mighty voice

Psalm 104:3 (ESV)

3 He lays the beams of his chambers on the waters;

he makes the clouds his chariot;

he rides on the wings of the wind;

Daniel 7:9-14

9“As I looked,

“thrones were set in place,

and the Ancient of Days took his seat.

His clothing was as white as snow;

the hair of his head was white like wool.

His throne was flaming with fire,

and its wheels were all ablaze.

10A river of fire was flowing,

coming out from before him.

Thousands upon thousands attended him;

ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him.

The court was seated,

and the books were opened.

11“Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. 12(The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.)

13“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

The langauage is not symbolic, the Cloud Rider is none other than God himself!

Notice especially Daniel where the ancient of Days (God) is seated on his throne when "one like a son of man" (human being) comes into his presence. He is given dominion over all men and the WORSHIP him!

So to whom exactly did God give his authority, his power and his dominion?

So who is the Cloud Rider?

Matthew 26:64-68

And the high priest said to him, “I adjure you by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.”

64Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

65Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “He has uttered blasphemy. What further witnesses do we need? You have now heard his blasphemy. 66What is your judgment?” They answered, “He deserves death.” 67Then they spit in his face and struck him. And some slapped him, 68saying, “Prophesy to us, you Christ! Who is it that struck you?”

The answer hasn't changed it seems... the answer is still God.

So who am I to expect when the time comes? Another man proclaiming himself to be God or the Cloud Rider? I will trust in the word of God.

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